GeorgeBMac said: While the Free Press is the foundation that democracy stands on, it is being used by unscrupulous characters to dismantle the democracy that both depends on it and supports it.
Free press - ha! When is the last time anyone in the mainstream media has talked about Sweden in regards to COVID? Oh no, we can't bring them up because it blows the current fear generated narrative out of the water.
Look at the recent Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Kyle is white, shot white aggressors and isn't even a conservative let alone a "proud boy" (if there ever was a dog whistle/straw man any time some idiot in politics or the media brings up the proud boys watch out). Yet you had multiple reports that got all of that and the above wrong - and are continuing to get it wrong even post trial when there are now legal rulings on much of this crap. I hope Kyle becomes VERY rich off of all the assholes who distorted his story for their own political gain.
You know what the greatest foundation of democracy is? Freedom - period. Full stop. Not freedom for some protected classes - but universal freedom. And chief of all - freedom from those who think they have the only version of "truth" that should be heard.
America became successful because it was the closest thing to a universally level playing field the world has ever seen. It never ceases to amaze me how many are fervently working to reverse that - and the biggest group of liars are the "diversity is our strength" crowd. It's Jim Crowe all over, but wrapped in fancy terms like systemic racism and pseudo intellectualism like the 1619 project. Saving us from racism via noble bigotry. Ideas so stupid that only the overly educated could mistake them for sophistication.
That's the problem today. There is truth (not versions). There are facts (not versions). There are opinions, and there are many versions. Don't confuse these.
Just because the truth and/or facts don't follow someone's opinion doesn't change the truth and facts.
No one is forced to use any company's social media platform. They own it. It's their rules. Don't like it, don't use it, and the whole world would be a better place.
If they were to give up their section 230 protections then I would be right there with you. However if they are going to get protection they shouldn't be able to act like a publisher and not face the consequences.
If they want the protections then they should have to at least offer a level playing ground, and they should be forced to do it in public. Otherwise no section 230 and they should be able to be sued just like any other site.
W(here)TF did you get that idea? I never made any statements about what is real & what is fake, or wanting to be the "source of truth". I have no desire to be involved with the general public or control anything or anyone. Maybe you need to take your tinfoil hat off (based on your reply to my simple comment).
Just look at what's happened in the US alone, in the past few years. Science, facts & common sense don't seem to apply anymore, to a lot of people.
Well you are seeming to advocate (yet again!) that people are too stupid to think for themselves - you typed out "Science, facts & common sense don't seem to apply anymore, to a lot of people." Those are your words - thoughts that you have repeated **twice** now.
So if you aren't going to be the arbiter of science, facts or common sense for those of us too dumb to figure it out on their own, then who is?
Me personally, figure it out for yourself. I don't need anyone else telling me what is science, what is factual or what common sense is. Someone can argue their position, but anyone who declares they are the truth and the way is going to get nothing but scorn and skepticism from me. Will I alway get it right? Nope - thinking that anyone is always going to get it right is a pretty dumb and unrealistic standard anyway so I don't know why people like you spend so much time going on about it.
Do I think the yahoos running any of the media or social media companies are going to be any better at discerning science, fact or common sense? Hell no! Just look at the idiots they rely on to "fact check" - it's laughable.
Here's a wild thought. Stop obsessing about all those science, facts and common sense everyone else gets wrong - worry about your own understanding of things. And if you think someone else got it wrong, work on your ability to persuade them to maybe see things like you do. And if they still don't then maybe you don't have as firm a grasp on the facts as you think you do - or maybe they just like being ignorant. I sure as hell know the answer isn't some quasi all knowing cabal dictating what the approved thought of the day is. If you like that totalitarian shit just move to China already. Maybe you too will get a cushy paid job to gaslight in the forums like some of our fellow posters apparently are.
Our system may be messy, but at least it's the good kind of mess. I'll take a free mess over tyrannic oder all day every day.
No one is forced to use any company's social media platform. They own it. It's their rules. Don't like it, don't use it, and the whole world would be a better place.
If they were to give up their section 230 protections then I would be right there with you. However if they are going to get protection they shouldn't be able to act like a publisher and not face the consequences.
If they want the protections then they should have to at least offer a level playing ground, and they should be forced to do it in public. Otherwise no section 230 and they should be able to be sued just like any other site.
Based on your reply, I don't think you understand section 230. You should read it.
Again - it's their platform/company. It's their choice to run it as they see fit within the bounds of the current law, not the government's or the public.
nicholfd said: Based on your reply, I don't think you understand section 230. You should read it.
Again - it's their platform/company. It's their choice to run it as they see fit within the bounds of the current law, not the government's or the public.
Oh I understand the mess that is 230 and how the big tech companies are abusing it for all they are worth. Indeed, if you go back and read/watch the discussions around 230 and what it was originally intended to do, to call what is going on today abuse is being overly kind.
Will anyone have the balls to fix it? I guess we will see. The next three years should be very interesting...
W(here)TF did you get that idea? I never made any statements about what is real & what is fake, or wanting to be the "source of truth". I have no desire to be involved with the general public or control anything or anyone. Maybe you need to take your tinfoil hat off (based on your reply to my simple comment).
Just look at what's happened in the US alone, in the past few years. Science, facts & common sense don't seem to apply anymore, to a lot of people.
Well you are seeming to advocate (yet again!) that people are too stupid to think for themselves - you typed out "Science, facts & common sense don't seem to apply anymore, to a lot of people." Those are your words - thoughts that you have repeated **twice** now.
So if you aren't going to be the arbiter of science, facts or common sense for those of us too dumb to figure it out on their own, then who is?
Me personally, figure it out for yourself. I don't need anyone else telling me what is science, what is factual or what common sense is. Someone can argue their position, but anyone who declares they are the truth and the way is going to get nothing but scorn and skepticism from me. Will I alway get it right? Nope - thinking that anyone is always going to get it right is a pretty dumb and unrealistic standard anyway so I don't know why people like you spend so much time going on about it.
Do I think the yahoos running any of the media or social media companies are going to be any better at discerning science, fact or common sense? Hell no! Just look at the idiots they rely on to "fact check" - it's laughable.
Here's a wild thought. Stop obsessing about all those science, facts and common sense everyone else gets wrong - worry about your own understanding of things. And if you think someone else got it wrong, work on your ability to persuade them to maybe see things like you do. And if they still don't then maybe you don't have as firm a grasp on the facts as you think you do - or maybe they just like being ignorant. I sure as hell know the answer isn't some quasi all knowing cabal dictating what the approved thought of the day is. If you like that totalitarian shit just move to China already. Maybe you too will get a cushy paid job to gaslight in the forums like some of our fellow posters apparently are.
Our system may be messy, but at least it's the good kind of mess. I'll take a free mess over tyrannic oder all day every day.
And perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. My statements make no comments or suggestions that I am, or want to be the arbiter of science, facts & truth. My statements about people are merely observations.
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
And trying to "fix" that is worse than butting out and minding your own business.
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
And trying to "fix" that is worse than butting out and minding your own business.
I don't thinking butting out and minding your own business works as a universal precept when there are people who have been so riddled with disinformation they act deliberately against medical advice intended to limit the spread of a pandemic, and plot to overthrow the result of an election.
Hunker down doesn't cut it, not when information is so widespread and disinformation is so often leading the race.
GeorgeBMac said: While the Free Press is the foundation that democracy stands on, it is being used by unscrupulous characters to dismantle the democracy that both depends on it and supports it.
Free press - ha! When is the last time anyone in the mainstream media has talked about Sweden in regards to COVID? Oh no, we can't bring them up because it blows the current fear generated narrative out of the water.
Look at the recent Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Kyle is white, shot white aggressors and isn't even a conservative let alone a "proud boy" (if there ever was a dog whistle/straw man any time some idiot in politics or the media brings up the proud boys watch out). Yet you had multiple reports that got all of that and the above wrong - and are continuing to get it wrong even post trial when there are now legal rulings on much of this crap. I hope Kyle becomes VERY rich off of all the assholes who distorted his story for their own political gain.
You know what the greatest foundation of democracy is? Freedom - period. Full stop. Not freedom for some protected classes - but universal freedom. And chief of all - freedom from those who think they have the only version of "truth" that should be heard.
America became successful because it was the closest thing to a universally level playing field the world has ever seen. It never ceases to amaze me how many are fervently working to reverse that - and the biggest group of liars are the "diversity is our strength" crowd. It's Jim Crowe all over, but wrapped in fancy terms like systemic racism and pseudo intellectualism like the 1619 project. Saving us from racism via noble bigotry. Ideas so stupid that only the overly educated could mistake them for sophistication.
Sounds like your brain absorbed to much propaganda from social media and its now leaking out.
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
And trying to "fix" that is worse than butting out and minding your own business.
I don't thinking butting out and minding your own business works as a universal precept when there are people who have been so riddled with disinformation they act deliberately against medical advice intended to limit the spread of a pandemic, and plot to overthrow the result of an election.
Hunker down doesn't cut it, not when information is so widespread and disinformation is so often leading the race.
Bingo. This is the problem for too many of the current crop of "do your own research" self-proclaimed skeptics don't seem to understand. Science is definitionally open to question. The thing the internet warriors don't get is that not all questions are created equal.
Think of a thing that you are an educated, trained expert in. Think of having a conversation or debate with someone equally educated and trained in the same subject. It's both stimulating and productive to hash out points of leading-edge research where you have differing viewpoints on emerging theories. That's an enlightening and invigorating conversation, right?
Now think of some random person who walks up and starts peppering you with daft questions and making uninformed statements about that subject. You don't even know where to begin with that person. Then there's the pièce de resistance: the poorly informed amateur "expert" points out that he heard your discussion with the other actual expert as he was walking up, notes that you were disagreeing about something and uses that to claim that you don't know anything, your whole area of expertise is bogus, and any opinion on the subject is as good as any other. Also, since he read some stuff on the internet, he actually knows more than you do, and everything you've said is wrong.
That's the thing that does indeed need to be "fixed." Open access to information is a great thing about the internet. The misperception that all information is equally valid is a devastating side effect. Democratization of information does not equal democratization of expertise.
Jack was a coward. He's now free to grow his beard out even longer and avoid making hard decisions or even enforcing their current policies when it gets hard.
His time is done. His future is getting high on the playa and contemplating alternate realities while stroking said beard.
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
And trying to "fix" that is worse than butting out and minding your own business.
I don't thinking butting out and minding your own business works as a universal precept when there are people who have been so riddled with disinformation they act deliberately against medical advice intended to limit the spread of a pandemic, and plot to overthrow the result of an election.
Hunker down doesn't cut it, not when information is so widespread and disinformation is so often leading the race.
Bingo. This is the problem for too many of the current crop of "do your own research" self-proclaimed skeptics don't seem to understand. Science is definitionally open to question. The thing the internet warriors don't get is that not all questions are created equal.
Think of a thing that you are an educated, trained expert in. Think of having a conversation or debate with someone equally educated and trained in the same subject. It's both stimulating and productive to hash out points of leading-edge research where you have differing viewpoints on emerging theories. That's an enlightening and invigorating conversation, right?
Now think of some random person who walks up and starts peppering you with daft questions and making uninformed statements about that subject. You don't even know where to begin with that person. Then there's the pièce de resistance: the poorly informed amateur "expert" points out that he heard your discussion with the other actual expert as he was walking up, notes that you were disagreeing about something and uses that to claim that you don't know anything, your whole area of expertise is bogus, and any opinion on the subject is as good as any other. Also, since he read some stuff on the internet, he actually knows more than you do, and everything you've said is wrong.
That's the thing that does indeed need to be "fixed." Open access to information is a great thing about the internet. The misperception that all information is equally valid is a devastating side effect. Democratization of information does not equal democratization of expertise.
All good and valid points. I would add one more: The person who starts from his conclusion and then backs into whatever "facts" (real or alternative) necessary to support that conclusion.
It's not just difficult to argue with those types, it's impossible because all they care about is validating their conclusion -- and the internet provides a trove of "facts" they can choose from.
Facts, truth, reason and logic are not relevant to them -- unless they support their position.
Comments
Just because the truth and/or facts don't follow someone's opinion doesn't change the truth and facts.
If they want the protections then they should have to at least offer a level playing ground, and they should be forced to do it in public. Otherwise no section 230 and they should be able to be sued just like any other site.
So if you aren't going to be the arbiter of science, facts or common sense for those of us too dumb to figure it out on their own, then who is?
Me personally, figure it out for yourself. I don't need anyone else telling me what is science, what is factual or what common sense is. Someone can argue their position, but anyone who declares they are the truth and the way is going to get nothing but scorn and skepticism from me. Will I alway get it right? Nope - thinking that anyone is always going to get it right is a pretty dumb and unrealistic standard anyway so I don't know why people like you spend so much time going on about it.
Do I think the yahoos running any of the media or social media companies are going to be any better at discerning science, fact or common sense? Hell no! Just look at the idiots they rely on to "fact check" - it's laughable.
Here's a wild thought. Stop obsessing about all those science, facts and common sense everyone else gets wrong - worry about your own understanding of things. And if you think someone else got it wrong, work on your ability to persuade them to maybe see things like you do. And if they still don't then maybe you don't have as firm a grasp on the facts as you think you do - or maybe they just like being ignorant. I sure as hell know the answer isn't some quasi all knowing cabal dictating what the approved thought of the day is. If you like that totalitarian shit just move to China already. Maybe you too will get a cushy paid job to gaslight in the forums like some of our fellow posters apparently are.
Our system may be messy, but at least it's the good kind of mess. I'll take a free mess over tyrannic oder all day every day.
Again - it's their platform/company. It's their choice to run it as they see fit within the bounds of the current law, not the government's or the public.
Will anyone have the balls to fix it? I guess we will see. The next three years should be very interesting...
And "figure it out for yourself" doesn't work when people choose to ignore real facts, truth & science. Persuasion doesn't work when people act like this, either.
Hunker down doesn't cut it, not when information is so widespread and disinformation is so often leading the race.
Sounds like your brain absorbed to much propaganda from social media and its now leaking out.
Think of a thing that you are an educated, trained expert in. Think of having a conversation or debate with someone equally educated and trained in the same subject. It's both stimulating and productive to hash out points of leading-edge research where you have differing viewpoints on emerging theories. That's an enlightening and invigorating conversation, right?
Now think of some random person who walks up and starts peppering you with daft questions and making uninformed statements about that subject. You don't even know where to begin with that person. Then there's the pièce de resistance: the poorly informed amateur "expert" points out that he heard your discussion with the other actual expert as he was walking up, notes that you were disagreeing about something and uses that to claim that you don't know anything, your whole area of expertise is bogus, and any opinion on the subject is as good as any other. Also, since he read some stuff on the internet, he actually knows more than you do, and everything you've said is wrong.
That's the thing that does indeed need to be "fixed." Open access to information is a great thing about the internet. The misperception that all information is equally valid is a devastating side effect. Democratization of information does not equal democratization of expertise.
That's a LOT of ire to heap on a beard.