I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
For me, it's a fucking work ethic. For you, that seems to be something very different.
Well if one has a fucking work ethic, they won’t need a union
That’s not true at all. Even within a unionized position advancement can and will occur based on merit. If you don’t want to be a good worker you won’t advance… but I’m sure you know that.
$30/hr is ridiculous for a retail worker. Here’s a radical idea. Apple Store workers should be paid on a draw+commission basis. No sell, no eat that week. That’s how I started (in1977) out selling musical instruments in a mall store. I got what was known as a ‘draw’ salary every month that went against any commissions I made in sales. My draw as $750/mo so if I sold enough product to earn $1000 in commissions I got $750 a draw check + $250 commission check. If the next month I only sold enough product to make $500 in commissions I still got my $750 draw but was now $250 in the hole so the following month I had to sell enough to make $1000 commission just to break even. Quite an incentive to work hard and sell, sell, sell. It quickly separates the men from the boys (and the women from the girls).
But somehow I think the entitled little pricks today would think that’s slave labor or something. They want $30/hr? For what? Standing around and showing people where the iPhone cases are? Trying to explain to some idiot why their iPad screen will cost money to repair because they dropped it and don't have AppleCare?
Sales-based commission at Apple. WOW! That will make going into an Apple Store just like ... walking onto a car dealership lot. PRESSURE. ATTITUDE. MORE PRESSURE. TACTICS to make you buy accessories you don't need. What a great idea.
For everyone else who thinks $30/hr is Penthouse-level pay, in expensive cities (like where I live) it's barely enough to get by. One paycheck might pay for rent in a cheap apartment, the other paycheck goes to utilities, gas for the car, car payment and groceries, insurance, etc. (with some leftover for going out every now and then). Oh, and maybe afford a nice (not great) big screen TV to watch pro sports "athletes" make MILLIONS of dollars PER GAME. Who here likes Pro Sports?
I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
For me, it's a fucking work ethic. For you, that seems to be something very different.
Well if one has a fucking work ethic, they won’t need a union
Maybe they do when they work for one of (if not THE) richest companies in the world and live in the most expensive city in the US and said company doesn't pay them a livable wage.
It’s a bargain starting point. One of the wealthiest companies in the world should be able to afford a decent salary, and not have employees wait in security lines in their own time.
Apparently Americans are so out-of-touch with what unions are and what they do that they cannot string together any coherent comment on them. Here's a hint: Unions think about what they'd like for their workers, and ask for that. Management comes back with a counter-offer. Issues are discussed, and a compromise is reached that usually benefits everyone, from the customer to the CEO.
Apple Store employees have to have a very broad base of knowledge, excellent customer relation skills, and the ability to woo switchers, among many other duties. $17/hour in NYC -- the most expensive city in the US in which to live -- is barely minimum wage (and should be the minimum wage in the US overall). But as the union suggested, a matrix measuring performance, role, and tenure (but at something a little less than what the union is asking for, let's say $20-$40 in range) would result in better employees, incentivised to a) perform well and b) stay with the company. This is how you retain quality workers.
Where I live, fast-food restaurants pay $17/hour for entry-level jobs (about US$14), and guess what -- the prices on the menu (adjusted for currency) are roughly the same as in America. US workers are frankly brainwashed to accept far less for their labour than they are worth, both in renumeration and in time off. Maybe if some of the commenters were a bit more well-traveled, and were aware of comparable pay rates and time off , medical/health coverage, and other parts of workers' total compensation in other countries, you'd better understand how much you're actually underpaid, almost regardless of the work you do.
I make between $35 and $55 per hour depending on differentials and overtime and whatnot. And I work 50-60 hours per week. Seems like a lot, right? I should be loaded. I make double the median US household income. So I kept asking myself why I'm not rich and live a fairly modest lifestyle in a cheap apartment.
So I made a spreadsheet and here is what I found out. In order to buy a home at the median US price of $350k and fully fund a 401k account annually (19.5k), someone needs to make about $60 an hour and live in a state with no income tax in order to have money left over for a student loan payment and car note. Now imagine trying to do that in NYC.
Whatever you think of unions or retail workers or minimum wage or living wage, or free markets - anything less than $60 an hour falls short of The Median American Dream. It means small homes in less desireable areas, renting, roomates etc. It means deciding not to have kids. It means not being able to afford that $20 burrito chips and a drink at Chipotle. It means charging a $250 emergency room copay on a credit card and pyaing 29% interest. People can feel that. I can empathize with anyone thinking they deservce more. Especially living in NYC in an architectural dream for the worlds richest corporation. But I think their efforts are better spent getting a job as a barber or licensed electrician or going back to school to work in a field with a starting salary of $120k.
I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
I don’t understand your question at all. What is the incentive? It’s $30/hour, you just said so.
Pretty straight forward point Chief? Maybe you should join the union lol
if everybody is guarantee at least $30 , and people get raises based on just being there longest,, why would Anyone bust their butt? Ever?
Apple will flush these morons out so fast lol
Why does anyone work hard in any other non-commission job?
I cannot believe I have to explain this.
Well let’s see, for career advancement?
Do you see anyone that has been working on the floor at Apple store since it opened ?
Many promoted because of work ethic and performance , that will end with unionization because they will all be treated as the same person
Do you think that forming a union will mean that if you give someone a promotion you have to give everyone a promotion? It doesn't.
Work ethic and performance continue to exist in unionised work forces. Career advancement continues to exist in business that recognise unions.
Their $30 request came with increased pay based on seniority first and not performance.
i feel we are all arguing for nothing, Apple stores don’t need these union workers! They can replace them all and more at any local college campus
So? $30/h is just the proposed base salary. Performance can still be rewarded with bonuses, promotion, or other perks. Not to mention it's only an opening in a negotiation and Apple aren't forced to accept the first offer.
If Apple has to replace most of their store floor workforce then that's going to be a major disruption. And if there are issues within the workforce that is leading them to unionise then those are unlikely to go away just with a forced staff turnover.
I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
For me, it's a fucking work ethic. For you, that seems to be something very different.
Well if one has a fucking work ethic, they won’t need a union
Maybe they do when they work for one of (if not THE) richest companies in the world and live in the most expensive city in the US and said company doesn't pay them a livable wage.
Apple should just tell them go get the deal at Best Buy and Target, I am sure Apple can just got any college campus and grab kids who been using apple products since they are 6 to replace these people
I make between $35 and $55 per hour depending on differentials and overtime and whatnot. And I work 50-60 hours per week. Seems like a lot, right? I should be loaded. I make double the median US household income. So I kept asking myself why I'm not rich and live a fairly modest lifestyle in a cheap apartment.
So I made a spreadsheet and here is what I found out. In order to buy a home at the median US price of $350k and fully fund a 401k account annually (19.5k), someone needs to make about $60 an hour and live in a state with no income tax in order to have money left over for a student loan payment and car note. Now imagine trying to do that in NYC.
Whatever you think of unions or retail workers or minimum wage or living wage, or free markets - anything less than $60 an hour falls short of The Median American Dream. It means small homes in less desireable areas, renting, roomates etc. It means deciding not to have kids. It means not being able to afford that $20 burrito chips and a drink at Chipotle. It means charging a $250 emergency room copay on a credit card and pyaing 29% interest. People can feel that. I can empathize with anyone thinking they deservce more. Especially living in NYC in an architectural dream for the worlds richest corporation. But I think their efforts are better spent getting a job as a barber or licensed electrician or going back to school to work in a field with a starting salary of $120k.
There was a time when a Detroit auto worker can support a family of four with a house and cars. Then times changed. Women start to join the work forces instead of being a house wife. There are many families with double income. They can certainly afford a bigger house with twice the monthly income. Then times changed. Many women demand equal pay. They do no like to get married or have kids. US is currently in this situation. Many people do not get married but live together with a roommate. They still desire a home. You may be in this category.
I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
I don’t understand your question at all. What is the incentive? It’s $30/hour, you just said so.
Pretty straight forward point Chief? Maybe you should join the union lol
if everybody is guarantee at least $30 , and people get raises based on just being there longest,, why would Anyone bust their butt? Ever?
Apple will flush these morons out so fast lol
Why does anyone work hard in any other non-commission job?
I cannot believe I have to explain this.
Well let’s see, for career advancement?
Do you see anyone that has been working on the floor at Apple store since it opened ?
Many promoted because of work ethic and performance , that will end with unionization because they will all be treated as the same person
Do you think that forming a union will mean that if you give someone a promotion you have to give everyone a promotion? It doesn't.
Work ethic and performance continue to exist in unionised work forces. Career advancement continues to exist in business that recognise unions.
Their $30 request came with increased pay based on seniority first and not performance.
i feel we are all arguing for nothing, Apple stores don’t need these union workers! They can replace them all and more at any local college campus
So? $30/h is just the proposed base salary. Performance can still be rewarded with bonuses, promotion, or other perks. Not to mention it's only an opening in a negotiation and Apple aren't forced to accept the first offer.
If Apple has to replace most of their store floor workforce then that's going to be a major disruption. And if there are issues within the workforce that is leading them to unionise then those are unlikely to go away just with a forced staff turnover.
That is what happens now, it’s between the company and the individual. You can shine over the slacker as an individual.
With a union, there is no longer the individual,everything would go through the union, you don’t get it do you?
There is no longer incentive for company to reward you because they deal with Union and vice versa
I have no words. We are all human being but I just cannot accept there are people this stupid
so every employee gets $30 regardless, so what is my incentive for working hard? And what is the incentive for the slacker to work?
I don’t understand your question at all. What is the incentive? It’s $30/hour, you just said so.
Pretty straight forward point Chief? Maybe you should join the union lol
if everybody is guarantee at least $30 , and people get raises based on just being there longest,, why would Anyone bust their butt? Ever?
Apple will flush these morons out so fast lol
Why does anyone work hard in any other non-commission job?
I cannot believe I have to explain this.
Well let’s see, for career advancement?
Do you see anyone that has been working on the floor at Apple store since it opened ?
Many promoted because of work ethic and performance , that will end with unionization because they will all be treated as the same person
Do you think that forming a union will mean that if you give someone a promotion you have to give everyone a promotion? It doesn't.
Work ethic and performance continue to exist in unionised work forces. Career advancement continues to exist in business that recognise unions.
Their $30 request came with increased pay based on seniority first and not performance.
i feel we are all arguing for nothing, Apple stores don’t need these union workers! They can replace them all and more at any local college campus
So? $30/h is just the proposed base salary. Performance can still be rewarded with bonuses, promotion, or other perks. Not to mention it's only an opening in a negotiation and Apple aren't forced to accept the first offer.
If Apple has to replace most of their store floor workforce then that's going to be a major disruption. And if there are issues within the workforce that is leading them to unionise then those are unlikely to go away just with a forced staff turnover.
That is what happens now, it’s between the company and the individual. With a union, there is no longer individual, you don’t get it do you?
There is no longer incentive for company to reward you because they deal with Union and vice versa
Maybe there are some unions out there that require this of their members and the business, but it is far from necessarily the case.
I've been a member of a union and still got promoted, and I've been a member of a union and still got bonuses. The union were there to protect me from being mistreated, not to hold me back from being rewarded.
Comments
if everybody is guarantee at least $30 , and people get raises based on just being there longest,, why would Anyone bust their butt? Ever?
Apple will flush these morons out so fast lol
Many promoted because of work ethic and performance , that will end with unionization because they will all be treated as the same person
For everyone else who thinks $30/hr is Penthouse-level pay, in expensive cities (like where I live) it's barely enough to get by. One paycheck might pay for rent in a cheap apartment, the other paycheck goes to utilities, gas for the car, car payment and groceries, insurance, etc. (with some leftover for going out every now and then). Oh, and maybe afford a nice (not great) big screen TV to watch pro sports "athletes" make MILLIONS of dollars PER GAME. Who here likes Pro Sports?
Work ethic and performance continue to exist in unionised work forces. Career advancement continues to exist in business that recognise unions.
So I made a spreadsheet and here is what I found out. In order to buy a home at the median US price of $350k and fully fund a 401k account annually (19.5k), someone needs to make about $60 an hour and live in a state with no income tax in order to have money left over for a student loan payment and car note. Now imagine trying to do that in NYC.
Whatever you think of unions or retail workers or minimum wage or living wage, or free markets - anything less than $60 an hour falls short of The Median American Dream. It means small homes in less desireable areas, renting, roomates etc. It means deciding not to have kids. It means not being able to afford that $20 burrito chips and a drink at Chipotle. It means charging a $250 emergency room copay on a credit card and pyaing 29% interest. People can feel that. I can empathize with anyone thinking they deservce more. Especially living in NYC in an architectural dream for the worlds richest corporation. But I think their efforts are better spent getting a job as a barber or licensed electrician or going back to school to work in a field with a starting salary of $120k.
i feel we are all arguing for nothing, Apple stores don’t need these union workers! They can replace them all and more at any local college campus
If Apple has to replace most of their store floor workforce then that's going to be a major disruption. And if there are issues within the workforce that is leading them to unionise then those are unlikely to go away just with a forced staff turnover.
I've been a member of a union and still got promoted, and I've been a member of a union and still got bonuses. The union were there to protect me from being mistreated, not to hold me back from being rewarded.