Should women be allowed to join Augusta Golf Club?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I tend to believe that a private organization (regardless if it's for profit) should be allowed to dictate who it has as it's members.

Yes it's sexist...but I wonder how Dr. Burk would feel if the tables were turned. I mean what's next. Could a man join the Women's Tennis Association? Could he then try and qualify or get an exemption to play in a women's tournament. Somehow I doubt it.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/aug...s_protests_ap/
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 61
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    They have the right to exclude women. They shouldn't exclude women.
  • Reply 2 of 61
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BuonRotto

    They have the right to exclude women. They shouldn't exclude women.



    What you said. But, whatever, they're just an bunch of old white guys with too much money. WHY a woman would want to join is beyond me... So they can be oggled by creepy old men? I guess Augusta doesn't have too many other options in terms of a social life (I've been there way more than I would like.... fiancee is from there.)
  • Reply 3 of 61
    fangornfangorn Posts: 323member
    Speaking as a woman, they should most certainly be allowed to exclude women. It is sad, but some women really don't feel "equal" to men except by "becoming" men. I don't have to be the same as someone else to be equal. I don't have to BE a man to be equal to a man.



    Doesn't hurt that I find golf about as exciting as watching paint dry.
  • Reply 4 of 61
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Hehe...I was wondering when this topic was going to come up here. I couldn't believe it took this long!







    My take? It's a PRIVATE club...they can do whatever they want. It's that simple. Anyone coming in here to disagree with that or pick me apart for that is, I suspect, doing it JUST to tweak me.







    But seriously, it's their place. They can do what they want and set their rules, goofy and old-school as they may be. It's that simple. Do I understand it? No. Agree with it? Not really. But is it truly a monumental, serious issue worth all this coverage and attention? No on that as well.
  • Reply 5 of 61
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,447member
    Sure but only to carry around the males golf bags while wearing knee high go-go boots while wearing bikinis.



    Nick
  • Reply 6 of 61
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Relating to Fangorn's post above, I've pretty much asked most of the women around me about this whole issue over the past couple of months (mom, sister, ex-wife, girlfriend, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc.) and not ONE of them thinks this woman is doing anything special or noble or whatever.



    They've all pretty much said "so what? It's a private club...go make your own if it's that important to you".



    That group (10-12, over a couple of months) represents a pretty wide range of backgrounds and political leanings too, so that is something to bear in mind. Even my two most feminist-oriented, always-on-the-left-side-of-issues friends think this woman is full of it and is being an annoying goofball. THAT speaks volumes to me. And if you knew these two, it would you as well.







    At this point, I think Ms. Burk, the good reverend Jackson and his bunch and a few hardcore feminist (of the perpetually indignant/offended variety...you know the type) are the only ones who seem TOO up in arms about this. That's why the judge stuck their silly asses out in a field, a mile away from the entrance to the Masters course.



  • Reply 7 of 61
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,122member
    I love the Master tournament, but i am not a big fan of Golf club like Augusta or other who are more concerned by the average social level of their member than the sport itself. If women where admitted in the club it will not change this mind spirit of ultra rich member club (nobody here on AI is certainly rich enough to enter in Augusta). The important thing, is that the average Joe as the right one time in his life to play at Augusta. For every amator playing in mythic ground is important.



    Anyway the Master is a myth, and i don't see it happens on another ground than Augusta.
  • Reply 8 of 61
    Paul loves a good tweaking. He's lying if he says otherwise.



    Now on to Augusta

    Superficially, it seems that it's their club, so they should have the right to do whatever they please. That's reasonable after all. Isn't it?



    Not at all.



    Quote:

    PGA Tour



    Basic contract; also operated Champions Tour:



    Host Facility represents and warrants to Tour and Host Organization that the membership practices and policies do not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion or national origin.



    UH OH, SPAGHETTIO! It seems we have ourselves a conflict here, eh partner?



    Digging deeper, we should think that Augusta must not discriminate for it to host an event. Right?



    Wrong.



    For all you aspiring lawyers out there, here's the loophole:

    It's not a PGA Tour event. So the PGA does not hold Augusta to these same standards even as they count players' winnings on the official tour money list and granting the winners two year Tour exemptions.



    Double Freakin' Standard if you ask me.
  • Reply 9 of 61
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    I understand that above. And yeah, kinda slippery and "is it or not?". But there is indeed that loophole, for lack of a better word. Perhaps maddening/annoying to some. No big whoop to others.



    Just one of those things.



    It would never even occur to me to try and nudge my way into a club, organization or society that was "women only". Why would I want to? The legal or lofty social angles can be yammered about for months, but pare it down to just the simple, personal angle: why?







    I still like Fangorn's post above. It coming from an actual WOMAN, I tend to place much stock in it.



  • Reply 10 of 61
    This is the legal reason why women should be allowed membership:



    Augusta's Money Matters
  • Reply 11 of 61
    enaena Posts: 667member
    I don't think the Masters needs that many lesbian groupies. I have visions of a Banana-Rama concert getting out of hand.



  • Reply 12 of 61
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,122member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pscates



    It would never even occur to me to try and nudge my way into a club, organization or society that was "women only". Why would I want to?





    Well, at least i can see one good reason to do that
  • Reply 13 of 61
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    It's private. They can do as they please.



    Furthermore, I'm glad there are no women there. There's a certain, comfortable male atmosphere that most men today are completely unaware of because there aren't very many sanctuaries for it anymore. It's actually a very relaxing thing to be in a mens' club.



    You can call it homo if you want, but most people I've met at mens' clubs aren't exactly homos, nor are they insecure. The insecure one's are the folks labeling mens' club patrons as homophobic, closet-gay dinosaurs.



    I'm sure the same basic argument holds for women in an all women club.
  • Reply 14 of 61
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,261member
    What the hell is wrong with these broads? Even if someone says women are allowed, it's a VERY long and hard process to get a membership. There are less than 200 members last I heard. You basically have to be "in" already. Christ, there are MEN who have been waiting 20+ years to get in.



    There are more important issues out there for women. Get a ****ing life and move on.



    With any luck she'll get super advanced breast cancer and go fight prostate cancer funding or something... "women need this cancer research money more than men!"
  • Reply 15 of 61
    Quote:

    There are more important issues out there for women. Get a ****ing life and move on.





    actually, martha burk quite agrees with you murbot. she is really baffled that augusta causes so much controversy, but as it does she'll take it and hopefully advance other issues into the glare of the spotlight while she has it trained on her.

    i've heard her say a dozen times that she wishes that the energy spent on augusta could be spent helping women get equality in third world countries, but no one wants to talk about that.
  • Reply 16 of 61
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    I don't golf, and I don't care, but on the question of whether women should be allowed to join the club.



    The resounding MORAL, LEGAL and ETHICAL answer is..



    NO!



    Can I join a women's health club? No. Is there a long tradition of segregating women's and men's sport? Yes. Is this tradition valid given the physical differences? Yes.



    Does the PGA only support unisex tourneys in it's money rankings? Yes. Are Augusta results included in said rankings? No.



    The media has been so damn dissapointing with regards to this (what do you expect from sports writers? But hey, what do we typically expect from war correspondents? The media has just become generally dissapointing): It isn't about equality in the least, or sexism, this actually represents a form PC bullying at it's worst. Some women are upset that perhaps they don't have a tourney that rises to the prestige of Augusta, that is hardly Augusta's fault, but now they want to attack Augusta's reputation, unduly, because they don't invite women. How many female (not just golf) tourneys don't invite men? How many female ONLY sports clubs and associations exist throughout NA ??? From things as simple as the plethora of women ONLY spa's and health clubs to Amatuer local and national sports associations. IS anyone attacking them? Nope.



    I'm very surprised by how many sports writers fail to see through this hollow cry. They should know better, knowing (presumably) the world of sports. I suspect many sports writers are looking to move into "serious" journalism and don't want to event risk the appearance of chauvanism or bigotry, they wouldn't want to be pigeon holed as offensive jocks, and so they accept the ludicris argument that Augusta is sexist.



    I find Martha Burk's whole argument an offense to intelligence, but hey, I think and I don't care what the politico's think, two things journo's don't excactly do aanymore.
  • Reply 17 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    I don't golf, and I don't care, but on the question of whether women should be allowed to join the club.



    The resounding MORAL, LEGAL and ETHICAL answer is..



    NO!



    Can I join a women's health club? No. Is there a long tradition of segregating women's and men's sport? Yes. Is this tradition valid given the physical differences? Yes.



    Does the PGA only support unisex tourneys in it's money rankings? Yes. Are Augusta results included in said rankings? No.



    The media has been so damn dissapointing with regards to this (what do you expect from sports writers? But hey, what do we typically expect from war correspondents? The media has just become generally dissapointing): It isn't about equality in the least, or sexism, this actually represents a form PC bullying at it's worst. Some women are upset that perhaps they don't have a tourney that rises to the prestige of Augusta, that is hardly Augusta's fault, but now they want to attack Augusta's reputation, unduly, because they don't invite women. How many female (not just golf) tourneys don't invite men? How many female ONLY sports clubs and associations exist throughout NA ??? From things as simple as the plethora of women ONLY spa's and health clubs to Amatuer local and national sports associations. IS anyone attacking them? Nope.



    I'm very surprised by how many sports writers fail to see through this hollow cry. They should know better, knowing (presumably) the world of sports. I suspect many sports writers are looking to move into "serious" journalism and don't want to event risk the appearance of chauvanism or bigotry, they wouldn't want to be pigeon holed as offensive jocks, and so they accept the ludicris argument that Augusta is sexist.



    I find Martha Burk's whole argument an offense to intelligence, but hey, I think and I don't care what the politico's think, two things journo's don't excactly do aanymore.




    It's not a club- it's a multi-million dollar corporation.
  • Reply 18 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    It's private. They can do as they please.



    Furthermore, I'm glad there are no women there. There's a certain, comfortable male atmosphere that most men today are completely unaware of because there aren't very many sanctuaries for it anymore. It's actually a very relaxing thing to be in a mens' club.



    You can call it homo if you want, but most people I've met at mens' clubs aren't exactly homos, nor are they insecure. The insecure one's are the folks labeling mens' club patrons as homophobic, closet-gay dinosaurs.



    I'm sure the same basic argument holds for women in an all women club.




    It's not a club- it's a multi-million dollar corporation.
  • Reply 19 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce

    It's not a club- it's a multi-million dollar corporation.



    Is it a privately owned corporation?
  • Reply 20 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally posted by murbot



    There are more important issues out there for women. Get a ****ing life and move on.





    I can definitely agree with that. There are just certain issues here that make Augusta National, Inc. more than just an old boys club. First, the fact that advertisers support an institution that discriminates based on sex. Second, the fact that it's not really a club- it's a corporation. So it's an ethical dilemma beyond the usual "well it's private..." Wwwait. People seem to forget that this thing is a sponsored, televised event and that the "club" makes millions of dollars as a company. There are more important issues out there but this one makes a fun one to argue.



    and yeah... the kind of women that would join such a club if they were allowed wouldn't give two shits about women's issues. So it's even less of an issue on that front. It's just the damn advertising and corporation aspect that gets Augusta National, inc. into trouble.
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