DuckDuckGo could have been Apple's private search engine

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AppleInsiderAppleInsider
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Private search engine DuckDuckGo could have been the default for private browsing in Safari but talks allegedly fell through under the might of Google's influence.

DuckDuckGo
DuckDuckGo



The Department of Justice is investigating Google for antitrust practices and abuse of power with a bench trial. Several potential deals have come to light, like bids from Microsoft for Apple to switch to Bing or even buy it outright, but all fell through allegedly because of Google's financial incentives.

According to a report from Bloomberg based on anonymous sources, Apple entered talks with private search engine DuckDuckGo to make it the default for private browsing mode in Safari. The testimonies about this subject may soon be unsealed if Judge Amit Mehta has his way.

DuckDuckGo CEO Gabriel Weinberg and Apple SVP of ML John Giannandrea both provided testimony about Apple's negotiations with the search company behind closed doors. However, Judge Mehta ruled that the testimony "goes to the heart of the case" and should be released sans trade secrets.

Apple and Google have an agreement in place that makes Google the default search engine on iPhone and other Apple products. It also stipulates that Apple can't create a Google competitor or display alternative search engines at device setup.

This deal between Google and Apple is at the heart of the DOJ antitrust investigation into Google. The trial is far from over and could have ramifications for both Google and Apple's businesses depending on the final ruling.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 33
    DrumHeaddrumhead Posts: 10member
    Blocking the display of alternative search engine choices at device setup…It takes two to do the collusion shuffle.
    d_2Anilu_777beowulfschmidtwilliamlondonbluefire1tdknoxchasmpulseimages
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  • Reply 2 of 33
    macseekermacseeker Posts: 551member
    Gawd, without a doubt, I love DuckDuckGo.

    Al least Apple had the good sense of listing DuckDuckGo in the selection list of internet search engines.
    williamlondonlotoneschasmbaconstangAlex1Ntyler82pulseimagesFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrajony0
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  • Reply 3 of 33
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,586member
    Remember Apple always places a priority over users privacy and security over making easy cash.
    OferwilliamlondonpulseimagesSkepticalwatto_cobrajony0
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  • Reply 4 of 33
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 779member
    But…you can do that now.
    iOSDevSWEwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 5 of 33
    Anilu_777anilu_777 Posts: 587member
    DrumHead said:
    Blocking the display of alternative search engine choices at device setup…It takes two to do the collusion shuffle.
    This should be set in the setup - not let people find out from their YouTube viewing. 
    williamlondonAlex1Nelijahgwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 6 of 33
    imatimat Posts: 217member
    I use DuckDuck Go as the default search engine on all my devices. It performs well with English prompts and I like that it is less cluttered than Google. But, as soon as you search for something in another language (Italian) and/or something more local or specific (like the construction rules for a town in southern Switzerland) Google really has no match as it stands right now.

    For general queries and general search DuckDuck Go is plenty good, but for more localized searches or for searches in Italian (haven't testet other languages so I cannot tell whether they are as good as English) it really doesn't help much.

    I also, sometimes, have the feeling that Google's own searches are updated more frequently.
    Alex1NpulseimagesFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 7 of 33
    imatimat Posts: 217member
    As Apple is right now, I don't think they could really improve DuckDuck Go very much even if they acquired it. Apple still is VERY MUCH a US company. Google and even Meta are much more international than Apple as a mindset and services.

    Examples:
    - how long did it take for AppleTV to have all the promised services in countries outside the US (back in the day when you could buy TV shows on AppleTV but only in the US)
    - how long did it take to sell the OG HomePod in other countries beyond English speaking ones? Related to that: how long did it take to have Siri speak languages other than English and have feature parity (like person recognition based on voice)
    - how long is it taking to release "News" App worldwide (still not available in many countries
    - Apple Card availability?

    Apple is getting better at it, but it still has a long way to go before becoming a truly global service provider. Don't get me wrong, I know some of these involve complicated negotiations and do not entirely depend on Apple alone. But operating a search engine worldwide, with all the rules in place, is not that different...
    williamlondonAlex1Nwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 8 of 33
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,800member
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 33
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,108member
    DuckDuckGo  uses a modified version of Bing to power it.  It is effectively Bing at its core 

    DuckDuckGo has surprisingly little of its own technology.  I’d be surprised if Apple had any serious conversations re: acquiring it.   Perhaps to o hire “talent” 
    edited October 2023
    tenthousandthingsgatorguyAlex1Nwatto_cobrajony0
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  • Reply 10 of 33
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,147member
    DrumHead said:
    Blocking the display of alternative search engine choices at device setup…It takes two to do the collusion shuffle.

    AFAIK one do not have the choice to select any default search during initial device setup. One get to select the default search when one set up their browser of choice and all the search choices possible are listed and easy to select. So how can Apple be blocking the display of alternative search engine during device setup, when AFAIK, that's not when you get to choose the default search engine? 

    And please learn the meaning of collusion ...

    >What is the definition of a collusion?

    Collusion is a non-competitive, secret, and sometimes illegal agreement between rivals which attempts to disrupt the market's equilibrium. The act of collusion involves people or companies which would typically compete against one another, but who conspire to work together to gain an unfair market advantage.<

    Apple is not a rival of Google in search and nor does Apple have a search engine that competes with Google in search. So there is no "two" doing the collusion shuffle in this case. It would be different if Apple was already in the search engine market and decided to not compete because of any deal with Google.



    williamlondonlotonesAlex1NFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 11 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,720member
    red oak said:
    DuckDuckGo  uses a modified version of Bing to power it.  It is effectively Bing at its core 

    DuckDuckGo has surprisingly little of its own technology.  I’d be surprised if Apple had any serious conversations re: acquiring it.   Perhaps to o hire “talent” 
    It's being portrayed as a negotiating tactic to get better terms from Google.

    Apple claims it was never a serious consideration, and in their opinion it might not be any more "private" than Google anyway with Microsoft at its core. Remember, at that time, DDG was still secretly allowing Microsoft alone to track and datamine users, a fact that wasn't discovered until last year. 
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/duckduckgo-browser-allows-microsoft-trackers-due-to-search-agreement/
    edited October 2023
    ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamAlex1NFileMakerFellerjony0
     1Like 0Dislikes 4Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 33
    beowulfschmidtbeowulfschmidt Posts: 2,396member
    davidw said:
    DrumHead said:
    Blocking the display of alternative search engine choices at device setup…It takes two to do the collusion shuffle.

    AFAIK one do not have the choice to select any default search during initial device setup. One get to select the default search when one set up their browser of choice and all the search choices possible are listed and easy to select. So how can Apple be blocking the display of alternative search engine during device setup, when AFAIK, that's not when you get to choose the default search engine?


    Well, since it's Apple that controls device setup, and it's Apple that controls what options are available during device setup, if Apple declined to include other options for search engine during device setup, then it can reasonably be claimed that Apple "blocked" other choices during device setup.  "that's not when you get to choose the default search engine" because Apple deliberately excluded that choice.  They could have included it, and decided not to.  Assuming the article is correct, it looks like the agreement with Google is the reason why they made that choice.

    Nobody but Apple controls what happens during device setup, so the presence or absence of any given option or options was a choice made by Apple.

    gatorguywilliamlondonAlex1N
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  • Reply 13 of 33
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,472member
    22july2013 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.

    Can Goldman Sachs even issue cards in Canada? They issue the cards, not Apple.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 33
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 685member
    22july2013 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.
    None of us have any idea what the difficulties in doing so are nor do we know if the Canadian customer is a desirable one for a multitude of reasons. 
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 33
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,147member
    beowulfschmidt said:
    davidw said:
    DrumHead said:
    Blocking the display of alternative search engine choices at device setup…It takes two to do the collusion shuffle.

    AFAIK one do not have the choice to select any default search during initial device setup. One get to select the default search when one set up their browser of choice and all the search choices possible are listed and easy to select. So how can Apple be blocking the display of alternative search engine during device setup, when AFAIK, that's not when you get to choose the default search engine?


    Well, since it's Apple that controls device setup, and it's Apple that controls what options are available during device setup, if Apple declined to include other options for search engine during device setup, then it can reasonably be claimed that Apple "blocked" other choices during device setup.  "that's not when you get to choose the default search engine" because Apple deliberately excluded that choice.  They could have included it, and decided not to.  Assuming the article is correct, it looks like the agreement with Google is the reason why they made that choice.

    Nobody but Apple controls what happens during device setup, so the presence or absence of any given option or options was a choice made by Apple.

     

    But the allege "collusion" can only be proven if Apple sets the default search during device set up and only have Google as a choice. Apple  can not be charged with any allege "collusion" for choosing not to set the default search during device set up and allow the user to choose their default search during their browser set up. As it can not be proven that Apple would not list alternative search engines, if they did set up default search during device set up. 

    And besides, why would Apple need to have the user choose the default search during device set up, if there's only one choice? Wouldn't Apple already know what search engine the user will choose during device set up, if Google is the only choice? 
    williamlondonAlex1NFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 16 of 33
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,342member
    mike1 said:
    22july2013 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.

    Can Goldman Sachs even issue cards in Canada? They issue the cards, not Apple.
    Goldman Sachs as issuer is why I've skipped the Apple Card, though reports that GS keeps losing money on the deal does make it tempting.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamdanoxFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrajony0
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 33
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,800member
    mike1 said:
    22july2013 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.

    Can Goldman Sachs even issue cards in Canada? They issue the cards, not Apple.
    Are you suggesting that all 195 countries in the world make it impossible for Apple to issue Apple Card in their respective countries? Or are you suggesting that Apple is choosing not to provide Apple Card in any other country?
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 33
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,800member
    mike1 said:
    22july2013 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.

    Can Goldman Sachs even issue cards in Canada? They issue the cards, not Apple.
    Goldman Sachs has physical offices in 60 countries of the world including Canada. As far as I can see, the US is the only country that Goldman Sachs has CHOSEN to issue credit cards for in the 60 countries where they do business. Are you suggesting that Apple has no control over which countries Goldman Sachs issues the Apple Card in?
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 33
    Xedxed Posts: 3,063member
    mike1 said:
    imat said:
    - Apple Card availability?
    Not even in Canada yet. With no hints of it coming here. Thanks for making a list of Apple's US-centric worldview.

    Can Goldman Sachs even issue cards in Canada? They issue the cards, not Apple.
    Are you suggesting that all 195 countries in the world make it impossible for Apple to issue Apple Card in their respective countries? Or are you suggesting that Apple is choosing not to provide Apple Card in any other country?
    How did you jump to impossible? His question is clear. It's not Apple that issues the card so it needs to go through each financial institutions that Apple can work with in a given country to make this happen. I assume this is GS in Canada and most other countries, but it may not be. There are also different hurdles for each company that need to be met.

    Do you recall the hurdles and pushback with making ApplePay available to Australian citizens? I do, and even though it finally happened earlier this year it's not over yet. 

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/14/apple-insists-australian-payment-rule-changes-shouldnt-apply-to-wallet
    edited October 2023
    Alex1NwilliamlondonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 20 of 33
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,300member
    DDG SHOULD have been Apples private search engine. 

    Switched to it a while back. Definitely returns the actual results I’m looking for. Google likes to bury things they don’t favor. 

    The Google formatting is better though. That’s the only drawback. An Apple partnership would have likely seen that rectified. 

    As it is, DDG uses Apple Maps for directions and that’s a huge plus as well. 
    edited October 2023
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
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