Apple is using the stupid EU laws against it to prove a point. Now Apple fans in the EU are going to turn on the EU because their rules are hobbling great products.
Ironically for the EU that’s exactly what they wanted, consumers having a choice. Their choice will be they want Apple products to be unhindered by stupid laws.
Great move Apple.
Also don’t forget that Apple is hindering their products in America. Apple Watch 9 has a product removal thanks to a law that sided with a non-playing entity.
This seems like a whole load of posturing and blackmail to me. Basically they are saying "we can't enable screen sharing to apps that Apple hasn't authorised because they might allow data to go somewhere that violates the users' privacy". Well, you know, you could always ask the user, couldn't you? Maybe a dialogue box the first time you connect to an app that's not signed by Apple isn't the absolutely perfect user experience, but it's an awful lot better than killing the feature all together. Given that Apple's own app store doesn't have a perfect record on vetting applications, that same pop-up-on-first-connect would probably be useful for Apple App Store apps too.
So no, this isn't EU regulation causing problems. This is Apple causing problems and attempting to blame the EU, because it doesn't want to loose its insanely lucrative monopoly by which is takes 30% of the entire value of the App Store for its own profit.
I've been criticized for about 10 years on these forums for asking Apple to pull out of major markets which harass them, and this is the first step in that direction. I feel vindicated today. My life now has meaning. I'll go out and celebrate with a nice dinner now.
This seems like a whole load of posturing and blackmail to me. Basically they are saying "we can't enable screen sharing to apps that Apple hasn't authorised because they might allow data to go somewhere that violates the users' privacy". Well, you know, you could always ask the user, couldn't you? Maybe a dialogue box the first time you connect to an app that's not signed by Apple isn't the absolutely perfect user experience, but it's an awful lot better than killing the feature all together. Given that Apple's own app store doesn't have a perfect record on vetting applications, that same pop-up-on-first-connect would probably be useful for Apple App Store apps too.
So no, this isn't EU regulation causing problems. This is Apple causing problems and attempting to blame the EU, because it doesn't want to loose its insanely lucrative monopoly by which is takes 30% of the entire value of the App Store for its own profit.
That’s not the issue. Screen sharing would need to work on Windows, Chromebooks, Linux etc. not worth it for Apple.
This seems like a whole load of posturing and blackmail to me. Basically they are saying "we can't enable screen sharing to apps that Apple hasn't authorised because they might allow data to go somewhere that violates the users' privacy". Well, you know, you could always ask the user, couldn't you? Maybe a dialogue box the first time you connect to an app that's not signed by Apple isn't the absolutely perfect user experience, but it's an awful lot better than killing the feature all together. Given that Apple's own app store doesn't have a perfect record on vetting applications, that same pop-up-on-first-connect would probably be useful for Apple App Store apps too.
So no, this isn't EU regulation causing problems. This is Apple causing problems and attempting to blame the EU, because it doesn't want to loose its insanely lucrative monopoly by which is takes 30% of the entire value of the App Store for its own profit.
Well under the DMA they should allow apps to have the same access to Apple Intelligent frameworks in third party app stores, also giving those apps unfettered access to the semantic debase that holds a lot of valuable personal and crucial data. As Apple values privacy it would render the platform vulnerable on a scale not seen before … So the EU reaps what it has sown 🤷♂️
Well, unfortunately none of the European users told the American company what to do so nice that you are showing your empathy for our plight. Thank you.
Sadly it’s the politicians who are telling a tech company what to do. They just want to Androidize Apple. EU citizens need to tell their representatives that they don’t agree with this. Apple doesn’t want to keep losing billions in fines by sticking the course. Heck on-device AI should be a GOOD thing for privacy. And privacy means no interoperability. Threema is a good example. It’s its own thing and you can’t log in with your WhatsApp credentials or connect your WA contacts to it. iOS being a monolith is what enables it to keep user info private.
That's what they get for telling an American company what to do...
Hell yeah! Why doesn’t every country just submit to anything Merka wants and bends over and takes it! YA-HOOO!
LOL.
The EU has the right to create regulations as they see fit. Apple has the right to not include some features that would be compromised by EU mandates in the EU.
This is not a problem. One or more market and/or political forces will act to resolve this conflict, though that may take some time.
To be clear, I think that if Apple sincerely believes current EU mandates compromise user security, it should not offer those features in the EU. It’s not “punishment,” it’s part of the company’s core value to protect user security. I don’t think it has anything to do with Apple wanting to “punish” the EU — their money is just as good as anyone else’s.
If European users feel strongly enough that they want those features, they will reform the EU to allow companies like Apple and Microsoft (not you, Google) to prioritize user security and privacy. This may all take a long time, but a happy (or at least acceptable) medium will eventually be achieved.
The EU is just Germany deciding they can get a better deal away from being functionally defunct and irrelevant. Of course, I don't know if that will happen since the EU has granted Germany financial dominion over continental Europe they never could have imagined achieving militarily.
I've been criticized for about 10 years on these forums for asking Apple to pull out of major markets which harass them
20 US states and DoJ have an antitrust lawsuit against Apple. China won't allow it, Apple believe EU won't be happy, there are antitrust cases in UK and Brazil. Should Apple quit US, China, EU, UK, and Brazil?
While Apple is trying to win by not doing business we see Google shipping localized language support on Android in EU. Remember what happened when Google decided not to do business in China and handed Baidu all the cards. Seems Apple is now happy to let Google get EU.
The problem with the DMA is that Apple is being penalized for things not in the DMA, but rather things that go against the ‘spirit’ of the DMA, according to Vestager who is in charge of penalizing companies until her term is over at the end of the year. No company can read minds and a business environment that can penalize you for 10-20% of your worldwide income on a whim is not a business environment that anyone wants to take any chances in.
If I were Apple I would have just pulled out of the EU altogether. It sucks for EU customers. But these are the people they put in charge and unless they make a change I’m pretty sure an EU pullout is in Apples future.
The EU accounts for a quarter of worldwide sales. It will come to the EU at some point.
Probably. But Apple will sell iPhones in the EU even without AI. The EU’s habit of issuing massive fines doesn’t help either. So what if a quarter of your sales are in the EU if the fines add up to the point that Apple isn’t making money there.
It’s better for Apple to just eliminate features to avoid the fines and accept slightly lower sales than to boost sales and be fined by over protective EU regulators.
Hopefully that won’t effect us here in England Thank god for Brexit.
Certainly hope it won't affect us, else I will need to change my Apple ID to a different country. Will that work?
Why would it affect England? You've left the EU, it only affects the EU…
A big part of post-Brexit awakening has been the realisation that in order to do business with the EU, which they kind of need to in order to survive, their products and services need to comply with EU regulations. So a lot of laws remain the same or become needlessly more complicated, because multiple standards need to be followed now. Of course, major parts of EU legislation were actually written by the British...
Also, the UK is — of course — running its own, similar investigation into Apple's conduct, even without the DMA. As are Japan, Australia, and — yep — even the United States.
All of those places are watching very closely, and you can BET that it's a matter of a few years before remarkably similar legislation shows up in those other countries…
At some point Apple may have to fork their products and services development and production to sell different versions of their products and services in different locales. This would be somewhat akin to automobile manufacturers building a modified version of the same auto platform for both left-hand-drive and right-hand-drive controls. It would absolutely be a burden for Apple and would be inefficient at many levels, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to sell into different locales.
As long as nationalism and locale differences exist this is simply a cost of doing business. Apple cannot expect that every nation, region, and locale will conform to Apple's desires to make life easier for Apple. The reality is the other way around, Apple has to conform to the whims of the markets they sell into. This may totally suck for Apple, but Apple is very aware of this reality as evidenced by their dealings within China. Would they prefer to not have to jump through hoops? Absolutely, but doing business on a global scale is never easy.
I think that some of the privacy and security concerns about the iPhone and iPad being compromised when they are modified to meet the demands of different locales has to do with how the iPhone and iPad establish the boundaries of their security models. To a large extent Apple does lean heavily on physical security of the device being the primary security boundary. After all, both product lines are based on a single owner single user based model. Once the single owner/user gets into the "secure zone" by virtue of presenting the proper credentials to log in, many of the remaining apps that are launched by the sole owner within the secure zone inherit the benefits of the physical security the single owner/user model provides. Allowing visitors and possible interlopers like third party apps, third party services, or government mandated versions or variations of Apple's core operational model are seen as inherently problematic.
So you could say that by relying so heavily on physical security on some devices Apple kind of painted themselves into a corner once outside regulators forced Apple to allow in others into their realm or operate in ways that could weaken Apple's safeguards. I'm not saying that Apple did anything wrong, but unfortunately their defence model didn't hold up to attacks that were not technological in nature. No matter how mathematically or technologically unbreakable Apple made their devices they were still completely vulnerable to attack from regulators, politicians, bureaucrats, of other sources of power, control, and influence.
It's now up to Apple to figure out how to reach a solution that is satisfactory for everyone involved. No amount of posturing, drawing lines in the sand, arguing, threats, intimidation, or retaliation are going to solve this problem. Apple running away from the problem by pulling out of certain markets will not fix this, because as others have mentioned, the EU is by no means the only entity coming to demand a ransom. If Apple wants to survive they will have to reach a settlement.
The EU has the right to create regulations as they see fit. Apple has the right to not include some features that would be compromised by EU mandates in the EU.
This is not a problem. One or more market and/or political forces will act to resolve this conflict, though that may take some time.
I understand that but it won't end well. I am fed up with EU mandating that we see "cookie warning" every damn i visit a website and it's entirely the fault of EU's lack of understanding on cookies.
Absolutely — me too! I was in Greece recently, and the cookie pages that came up were incredibly annoying and some were so complex that it was comical. Why on earth do EU citizens put up with this insanity? It felt like I was transported back to the 90s.
Comments
Apple is using the stupid EU laws against it to prove a point. Now Apple fans in the EU are going to turn on the EU because their rules are hobbling great products.
Ironically for the EU that’s exactly what they wanted, consumers having a choice. Their choice will be they want Apple products to be unhindered by stupid laws.
Great move Apple.
Also don’t forget that Apple is hindering their products in America. Apple Watch 9 has a product removal thanks to a law that sided with a non-playing entity.
So no, this isn't EU regulation causing problems. This is Apple causing problems and attempting to blame the EU, because it doesn't want to loose its insanely lucrative monopoly by which is takes 30% of the entire value of the App Store for its own profit.
So the EU reaps what it has sown 🤷♂️
While Apple is trying to win by not doing business we see Google shipping localized language support on Android in EU.
Remember what happened when Google decided not to do business in China and handed Baidu all the cards. Seems Apple is now happy to let Google get EU.
Also, the UK is — of course — running its own, similar investigation into Apple's conduct, even without the DMA. As are Japan, Australia, and — yep — even the United States.
As long as nationalism and locale differences exist this is simply a cost of doing business. Apple cannot expect that every nation, region, and locale will conform to Apple's desires to make life easier for Apple. The reality is the other way around, Apple has to conform to the whims of the markets they sell into. This may totally suck for Apple, but Apple is very aware of this reality as evidenced by their dealings within China. Would they prefer to not have to jump through hoops? Absolutely, but doing business on a global scale is never easy.
I think that some of the privacy and security concerns about the iPhone and iPad being compromised when they are modified to meet the demands of different locales has to do with how the iPhone and iPad establish the boundaries of their security models. To a large extent Apple does lean heavily on physical security of the device being the primary security boundary. After all, both product lines are based on a single owner single user based model. Once the single owner/user gets into the "secure zone" by virtue of presenting the proper credentials to log in, many of the remaining apps that are launched by the sole owner within the secure zone inherit the benefits of the physical security the single owner/user model provides. Allowing visitors and possible interlopers like third party apps, third party services, or government mandated versions or variations of Apple's core operational model are seen as inherently problematic.
So you could say that by relying so heavily on physical security on some devices Apple kind of painted themselves into a corner once outside regulators forced Apple to allow in others into their realm or operate in ways that could weaken Apple's safeguards. I'm not saying that Apple did anything wrong, but unfortunately their defence model didn't hold up to attacks that were not technological in nature. No matter how mathematically or technologically unbreakable Apple made their devices they were still completely vulnerable to attack from regulators, politicians, bureaucrats, of other sources of power, control, and influence.
It's now up to Apple to figure out how to reach a solution that is satisfactory for everyone involved. No amount of posturing, drawing lines in the sand, arguing, threats, intimidation, or retaliation are going to solve this problem. Apple running away from the problem by pulling out of certain markets will not fix this, because as others have mentioned, the EU is by no means the only entity coming to demand a ransom. If Apple wants to survive they will have to reach a settlement.
good for the the EU! Where do we sign up?