Work on second-gen Apple Vision Pro & new smart glasses is progressing

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware

Despite reportedly weak Apple Vision Pro sales to consumers, Apple is working on both a less-expensive version as well as a second-generation model, alongside research on a "smart glasses" type device.

Close-up of modern, sleek virtual reality headset with a reflective blue visor, displayed against a blurred background of people.
A less-expensive and lighter "Apple Vision" product could arrive as early as sometime in 2025.



A new report from Bloomberg outlines two forthcoming headsets: a second-generation model of the Apple Vision Pro, and a cheaper version of the headset which could be dubbed simply the "Apple Vision." The latter product may appear as early as sometime in 2025.

The company is continuing to look at another category entirely, the "smart glasses" area that is presently defined by Meta's $329-and-up smart Ray Ban glasses. The Apple version, which might be dubbed "Apple Glass," has no timetable at present, much like the second-generation Apple Vision Pro.

According to the report, the idea of making the glasses-style device into a true augmented-reality product has "been tabled due to technical challenges." This could set the potential launch of the "Apple Glass" product back further than either the next Apple Vision Pro or the projected "Apple Vision" headsets.

It remains unclear what changes might be made in the cheaper "Apple Vision" product in order to bring the cost down, which reporter Mark Gurman feels should be in the $1,500 range to attract more buyers. One option would be to make any future headset out of lighter materials, since the weight factor of the current Apple Vision Pro is another of its main criticisms, alongside the price.

Rumor Score: Possible

Read on AppleInsider

«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,990member
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
  • Reply 2 of 28

    AVP wasn’t a hit. 
    It wasn't meant to be "a hit." It was a developer tool. 
    ForumPostrezwitswatto_cobrajas99tmay
  • Reply 3 of 28
    Wish authors would substitute “less expensive” for “cheap or cheaper” when talking about Apple devices.
    rezwitsdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 28
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 28
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,149member
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    There are 6-8 major reasons why glasses might be better than VR/AR goggles.

    If you've used both (like me), the weight difference between glasses and googles is a *MAJOR* consideration. Even though I've been wearing glasses since childhood, I still take them off occasionally for a break. The ones of my face right now weigh about 30g. My Oculus Rift S weigh 500 g or 16x more.

    The second major thing about googles is the discomfort for various reasons after wearing over time. If they are sealed off to prevent external light, that means air circulation is poor. It's important to mention that VR goggles are full of electronics which generate heat which is difficult to dissipate entirely to the exterior. Some of the heat is directed to the interior of the heatset.

    Another issue is eye fatigue from staring a screen that is a fixed distance from your eyes. Perhaps younger eyes can handle this easier but at some point your eyes will be old and tired like mine and it's just not very comfortable doing so for longer periods of time.

    With glasses (or unaided vision), you can rest your eyes by simply staring at something else. Typical ergonomic advice recommend doing so when using computer monitors and other video screens: occasionally look at something else (at a distance, away from the monitor). This is far easier to do without an HMD.

    It's worth pointing out that a typical VR HMD isn't truly a full immersive experience because the display coverage is limited and don't provide any sort of peripheral vision. That forces you to look at the screen.

    With something like AR glasses it would be easy to turn off the AR functions and continue viewing the surroundings. With an HMD, if you stop the content, you basically have either a blank screen or some default environment. Even video passthrough is not the same as unassisted standard vision.

    There are also latency issues with all displays. Again, with a pair of glasses, you still get to view the world normally. The latency issues were particularly severe in VR HMDs in the Nineties and often caused motion sickness in users. Those negative effects have decreased by aren't gone.

    There are probably 4-6 more issues concerning VR goggles or any similar immersive HMD. It probably explains why poor man's VR (like Google Cardboard) came and went very quickly. Even amateur enthusiasts quickly recognized many of the inherent shortcomings of googles/HMDs.

    Some of the issues I've mentioned can be mitigated by better technology in the next few years but not all of them.

    I don't see how VR HMD device manufacturers can get their products down to the sub 50 g range. I also don't know how they can eliminate comfort issues associated with air circulation and heat. 

    In the end, my VR HMD sessions last about 45 minutes because of overall device wearing fatigue. One thing I found interesting is that VR HMD use makes me thirsty (probably due to google heat and poor air circulation). Even drinking a glass of water is pretty awkward with a VR HMD with video passthrough. The googles and accompanying headgear are really designed for using the device with your head more or less level. The odd weight distribution is not a particularly enjoyable sensation when you look down, up or around.

    And as you get older, the discomfort issues will become more annoying, not easier to accept.

    Again, if you have worn both regular eyeglasses and a VR/AR HMD for an extended time, all of this should be very obvious. Wearing a VR HMD isn't a joy. It's more of a duty or chore, just like wearing snow googles (which I have also worn) when you go skiing or snowboarding. It's not something anyone prefers. But snow googles don't weigh anywhere near what VR HMDs currently weigh.
    edited August 11 eightzeromuthuk_vanalingamdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 28
    PemaPema Posts: 98member
    This is like quad stereo, DVD Blue Ray, there was a push in the cinemas - before I stopped going - to watch in 3D and they used to hand out paper/plastic lens glasses. There were a couple of movies releases that flopped due to the high production cost. And then they stopped. There is no compelling business case. Folks go to the movies to be entertained. On the odd occasion a movie like Avatar is fun to watch in 3D. But that is one movie out of a thousand. 
    Same with Vision Pro. If I wanted a mixed reality headset I will purchase the Meta Quest 3. No need. Not interested. 
    I would rather IT providers put their effort into security so that we don't hacked on a personal or company level, rather than wasting billions on AI which is just an algorithm to scrape stale data. It is not predictive. It's retroactive. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 28
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,126member
    mpantone said:
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    There are 6-8 major reasons why glasses might be better than VR/AR goggles.

    If you've used both (like me), the weight difference between glasses and googles is a *MAJOR* consideration. Even though I've been wearing glasses since childhood, I still take them off occasionally for a break. The ones of my face right now weigh about 30g. My Oculus Rift S weigh 500 g or 16x more.

    The second major thing about googles is the discomfort for various reasons after wearing over time. If they are sealed off to prevent external light, that means air circulation is poor. It's important to mention that VR goggles are full of electronics which generate heat which is difficult to dissipate entirely to the exterior. Some of the heat is directed to the interior of the heatset.

    Another issue is eye fatigue from staring a screen that is a fixed distance from your eyes. Perhaps younger eyes can handle this easier but at some point your eyes will be old and tired like mine and it's just not very comfortable doing so for longer periods of time.

    With glasses (or unaided vision), you can rest your eyes by simply staring at something else. Typical ergonomic advice recommend doing so when using computer monitors and other video screens: occasionally look at something else (at a distance, away from the monitor). This is far easier to do without an HMD.

    It's worth pointing out that a typical VR HMD isn't truly a full immersive experience because the display coverage is limited and don't provide any sort of peripheral vision. That forces you to look at the screen.

    With something like AR glasses it would be easy to turn off the AR functions and continue viewing the surroundings. With an HMD, if you stop the content, you basically have either a blank screen or some default environment. Even video passthrough is not the same as unassisted standard vision.

    There are also latency issues with all displays. Again, with a pair of glasses, you still get to view the world normally. The latency issues were particularly severe in VR HMDs in the Nineties and often caused motion sickness in users. Those negative effects have decreased by aren't gone.

    There are probably 4-6 more issues concerning VR goggles or any similar immersive HMD. It probably explains why poor man's VR (like Google Cardboard) came and went very quickly. Even amateur enthusiasts quickly recognized many of the inherent shortcomings of googles/HMDs.

    Some of the issues I've mentioned can be mitigated by better technology in the next few years but not all of them.

    I don't see how VR HMD device manufacturers can get their products down to the sub 50 g range. I also don't know how they can eliminate comfort issues associated with air circulation and heat. 

    In the end, my VR HMD sessions last about 45 minutes because of overall device wearing fatigue. One thing I found interesting is that VR HMD use makes me thirsty (probably due to google heat and poor air circulation). Even drinking a glass of water is pretty awkward with a VR HMD with video passthrough. The googles and accompanying headgear are really designed for using the device with your head more or less level. The odd weight distribution is not a particularly enjoyable sensation when you look down, up or around.

    And as you get older, the discomfort issues will become more annoying, not easier to accept.

    Again, if you have worn both regular eyeglasses and a VR/AR HMD for an extended time, all of this should be very obvious. Wearing a VR HMD isn't a joy. It's more of a duty or chore, just like wearing snow googles (which I have also worn) when you go skiing or snowboarding. It's not something anyone prefers. But snow googles don't weigh anywhere near what VR HMDs currently weigh.
    That's a pretty comprehensive product review. Interesting insights based on your firsthand experience with a very new device. I'm guessing you returned your AVP after giving it a full test to come to these important and insightful conclusions. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 28
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,149member
    eightzero said:
    mpantone said:
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    There are 6-8 major reasons why glasses might be better than VR/AR goggles.

    If you've used both (like me), the weight difference between glasses and googles is a *MAJOR* consideration. Even though I've been wearing glasses since childhood, I still take them off occasionally for a break. The ones of my face right now weigh about 30g. My Oculus Rift S weigh 500 g or 16x more.

    The second major thing about googles is the discomfort for various reasons after wearing over time. If they are sealed off to prevent external light, that means air circulation is poor. It's important to mention that VR goggles are full of electronics which generate heat which is difficult to dissipate entirely to the exterior. Some of the heat is directed to the interior of the heatset.

    Another issue is eye fatigue from staring a screen that is a fixed distance from your eyes. Perhaps younger eyes can handle this easier but at some point your eyes will be old and tired like mine and it's just not very comfortable doing so for longer periods of time.

    With glasses (or unaided vision), you can rest your eyes by simply staring at something else. Typical ergonomic advice recommend doing so when using computer monitors and other video screens: occasionally look at something else (at a distance, away from the monitor). This is far easier to do without an HMD.

    It's worth pointing out that a typical VR HMD isn't truly a full immersive experience because the display coverage is limited and don't provide any sort of peripheral vision. That forces you to look at the screen.

    With something like AR glasses it would be easy to turn off the AR functions and continue viewing the surroundings. With an HMD, if you stop the content, you basically have either a blank screen or some default environment. Even video passthrough is not the same as unassisted standard vision.

    There are also latency issues with all displays. Again, with a pair of glasses, you still get to view the world normally. The latency issues were particularly severe in VR HMDs in the Nineties and often caused motion sickness in users. Those negative effects have decreased by aren't gone.

    There are probably 4-6 more issues concerning VR goggles or any similar immersive HMD. It probably explains why poor man's VR (like Google Cardboard) came and went very quickly. Even amateur enthusiasts quickly recognized many of the inherent shortcomings of googles/HMDs.

    Some of the issues I've mentioned can be mitigated by better technology in the next few years but not all of them.

    I don't see how VR HMD device manufacturers can get their products down to the sub 50 g range. I also don't know how they can eliminate comfort issues associated with air circulation and heat. 

    In the end, my VR HMD sessions last about 45 minutes because of overall device wearing fatigue. One thing I found interesting is that VR HMD use makes me thirsty (probably due to google heat and poor air circulation). Even drinking a glass of water is pretty awkward with a VR HMD with video passthrough. The googles and accompanying headgear are really designed for using the device with your head more or less level. The odd weight distribution is not a particularly enjoyable sensation when you look down, up or around.

    And as you get older, the discomfort issues will become more annoying, not easier to accept.

    Again, if you have worn both regular eyeglasses and a VR/AR HMD for an extended time, all of this should be very obvious. Wearing a VR HMD isn't a joy. It's more of a duty or chore, just like wearing snow googles (which I have also worn) when you go skiing or snowboarding. It's not something anyone prefers. But snow googles don't weigh anywhere near what VR HMDs currently weigh.
    That's a pretty comprehensive product review. Interesting insights based on your firsthand experience with a very new device. I'm guessing you returned your AVP after giving it a full test to come to these important and insightful conclusions. 
    I did not provide a product review. I provided general commentary on VR HMDs based on experience with a variety of devices going back to the Nineties (including the Oculus Rift S which I purchased on my own circa 2020 and still possess). I tried a bunch of these in the late 1990s - early 2000s (including VPL devices) and even dabbled a bit with the failed VRML markup language.

    I picked up the AVP at a local Apple Store. At ~625 g, it's noticeably heavier by +25% than my Rift S (500 g) so I had zero inclination to actually book a demo. Also, at $3500 it's almost 9x more expensive than what I paid for my Rift S ($399). Even if I won 1 million in lotto I wouldn't buy the AVP. I later tried a friend's AVP for a couple of minutes. That person returned their AVP a few days later.

    I think I have used my Rift S for a total of 3 hours in the past six months. It works as advertised, it just becomes a tiresome user experience after around 35 minutes.'

    I kept my Rift S mostly to continue playing a few VR games, notably Half-Life: Alyx, a modded version of Alien Isolation, and some other mods for HL Alyx like this one that puts the player in the Bioshock universe:



    As far as I can tell, AVP doesn't have the same breadth of VR games (and it's still too expensive). If there's one game that a VR HMD needs to support, it's Half-Life: Alyx. I don't use the Rift S for any sort of productivity applications, it wasn't optimized for that sort of thing.

    One thing for sure, I can barely stand wearing a 500 g HMD for more than 45 minutes. I know when I'm doing office productivity work, I typically spend more than 45 minutes.

    My weight criticism isn't levelled specifically at AVP. The original Playstation VR HMD is 600g; the VR2 is 560 g. All of the major VR HMDs are all around this weight range which partially explains why none of them have taken off regardless of their price or image quality.

    There are a lot of issues with the current implementations of VR HMDs in 2024. Even cutting the cord and making an HMD wireless has pros and cons. The biggest con is the requirement for an on-board battery which means limited usage duration and of course, more weight.

    Like I wrote previously, there are probably 8 major issues with VR goggles and a bunch of minor ones or additional ones that crop up under certain conditions (like the battery issue for wireless HMDs). If you have used a variety of HMDs over the years, pick up an AVP and start asking questions, it's clear that Apple has not solved some basic roadblocks that plague this entire class of devices. Owning an AVP doesn't make it any lighter.

    If a future Apple HMD goes on a crash diet -- both in weight and price -- I might consider it. But the current AVP offering is too heavy and too spendy. But for me to wear such a device for a couple of hours per sitting, it really needs to get to 100 g or less.
    edited August 12 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobraslow n easy
  • Reply 9 of 28
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,436member
    Despite no evidence of “weak sales” you still open with that line. So why shouldn’t we just take everything after that as stock manipulation?
    edited August 12 charlesnssfe11williamlondonwatto_cobrajas99
  • Reply 10 of 28
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,017member
    mattinoz said:
    Despite no evidence of “weak sales” you still open with that line. So why shouldn’t we just take everything after that as stock manipulation?
    I'm totally with you on the first sentence, but you give AppleInsider WAY too much credit for influence if you think anything they write would move AAPL's stock price even a penny. It won't. That said, the real question is why even bother reading past the first sentence (I sure didn't bother) when this is yet another example of AppleInsider's complete lack of integrity as it repeats baseless bullshite ad nauseam as if it were reporting established facts. It isn't. But hey, AppleInsider, prove me wrong! I challenge you to provide ANY actual, substantiated factual evidence that Apple Vision Pro sales have been weak to consumers. I'll wait... 


    mattinozgrandact73
  • Reply 11 of 28
    Anyone who is just not interest in AVP but explains why for 15 paragraphs long is fos and has a carefully hidden motive because when not interested in something you quickly move on and give it zero of your time. 
    edited August 12 watto_cobrajas99
  • Reply 12 of 28
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    Just a passable thing to get second position in sales (right after Meta) in the first quarter of the sales). Nothing to look at. https://www.idc.com/promo/arvr
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 28
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,126member
    mpantone said:
    eightzero said:
    mpantone said:
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    There are 6-8 major reasons why glasses might be better than VR/AR goggles.

    If you've used both (like me), the weight difference between glasses and googles is a *MAJOR* consideration. Even though I've been wearing glasses since childhood, I still take them off occasionally for a break. The ones of my face right now weigh about 30g. My Oculus Rift S weigh 500 g or 16x more.

    The second major thing about googles is the discomfort for various reasons after wearing over time. If they are sealed off to prevent external light, that means air circulation is poor. It's important to mention that VR goggles are full of electronics which generate heat which is difficult to dissipate entirely to the exterior. Some of the heat is directed to the interior of the heatset.

    Another issue is eye fatigue from staring a screen that is a fixed distance from your eyes. Perhaps younger eyes can handle this easier but at some point your eyes will be old and tired like mine and it's just not very comfortable doing so for longer periods of time.

    With glasses (or unaided vision), you can rest your eyes by simply staring at something else. Typical ergonomic advice recommend doing so when using computer monitors and other video screens: occasionally look at something else (at a distance, away from the monitor). This is far easier to do without an HMD.

    It's worth pointing out that a typical VR HMD isn't truly a full immersive experience because the display coverage is limited and don't provide any sort of peripheral vision. That forces you to look at the screen.

    With something like AR glasses it would be easy to turn off the AR functions and continue viewing the surroundings. With an HMD, if you stop the content, you basically have either a blank screen or some default environment. Even video passthrough is not the same as unassisted standard vision.

    There are also latency issues with all displays. Again, with a pair of glasses, you still get to view the world normally. The latency issues were particularly severe in VR HMDs in the Nineties and often caused motion sickness in users. Those negative effects have decreased by aren't gone.

    There are probably 4-6 more issues concerning VR goggles or any similar immersive HMD. It probably explains why poor man's VR (like Google Cardboard) came and went very quickly. Even amateur enthusiasts quickly recognized many of the inherent shortcomings of googles/HMDs.

    Some of the issues I've mentioned can be mitigated by better technology in the next few years but not all of them.

    I don't see how VR HMD device manufacturers can get their products down to the sub 50 g range. I also don't know how they can eliminate comfort issues associated with air circulation and heat. 

    In the end, my VR HMD sessions last about 45 minutes because of overall device wearing fatigue. One thing I found interesting is that VR HMD use makes me thirsty (probably due to google heat and poor air circulation). Even drinking a glass of water is pretty awkward with a VR HMD with video passthrough. The googles and accompanying headgear are really designed for using the device with your head more or less level. The odd weight distribution is not a particularly enjoyable sensation when you look down, up or around.

    And as you get older, the discomfort issues will become more annoying, not easier to accept.

    Again, if you have worn both regular eyeglasses and a VR/AR HMD for an extended time, all of this should be very obvious. Wearing a VR HMD isn't a joy. It's more of a duty or chore, just like wearing snow googles (which I have also worn) when you go skiing or snowboarding. It's not something anyone prefers. But snow googles don't weigh anywhere near what VR HMDs currently weigh.
    That's a pretty comprehensive product review. Interesting insights based on your firsthand experience with a very new device. I'm guessing you returned your AVP after giving it a full test to come to these important and insightful conclusions. 
    I did not provide a product review. I provided general commentary on VR HMDs based on experience with a variety of devices going back to the Nineties (including the Oculus Rift S which I purchased on my own circa 2020 and still possess). I tried a bunch of these in the late 1990s - early 2000s (including VPL devices) and even dabbled a bit with the failed VRML markup language.

    I picked up the AVP at a local Apple Store. At ~625 g, it's noticeably heavier by +25% than my Rift S (500 g) so I had zero inclination to actually book a demo. Also, at $3500 it's almost 9x more expensive than what I paid for my Rift S ($399). Even if I won 1 million in lotto I wouldn't buy the AVP. I later tried a friend's AVP for a couple of minutes. That person returned their AVP a few days later.

    I think I have used my Rift S for a total of 3 hours in the past six months. It works as advertised, it just becomes a tiresome user experience after around 35 minutes.'

    I kept my Rift S mostly to continue playing a few VR games, notably Half-Life: Alyx, a modded version of Alien Isolation, and some other mods for HL Alyx like this one that puts the player in the Bioshock universe:



    As far as I can tell, AVP doesn't have the same breadth of VR games (and it's still too expensive). If there's one game that a VR HMD needs to support, it's Half-Life: Alyx. I don't use the Rift S for any sort of productivity applications, it wasn't optimized for that sort of thing.

    One thing for sure, I can barely stand wearing a 500 g HMD for more than 45 minutes. I know when I'm doing office productivity work, I typically spend more than 45 minutes.

    My weight criticism isn't levelled specifically at AVP. The original Playstation VR HMD is 600g; the VR2 is 560 g. All of the major VR HMDs are all around this weight range which partially explains why none of them have taken off regardless of their price or image quality.

    There are a lot of issues with the current implementations of VR HMDs in 2024. Even cutting the cord and making an HMD wireless has pros and cons. The biggest con is the requirement for an on-board battery which means limited usage duration and of course, more weight.

    Like I wrote previously, there are probably 8 major issues with VR goggles and a bunch of minor ones or additional ones that crop up under certain conditions (like the battery issue for wireless HMDs). If you have used a variety of HMDs over the years, pick up an AVP and start asking questions, it's clear that Apple has not solved some basic roadblocks that plague this entire class of devices. Owning an AVP doesn't make it any lighter.

    If a future Apple HMD goes on a crash diet -- both in weight and price -- I might consider it. But the current AVP offering is too heavy and too spendy. But for me to wear such a device for a couple of hours per sitting, it really needs to get to 100 g or less.
    Oh, ok. My mistake. 
  • Reply 14 of 28

    AVP wasn’t a hit. 
    It wasn't meant to be "a hit." It was a developer tool. 
    Proof?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 28
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,940member
    charlesn said:
    mattinoz said:
    Despite no evidence of “weak sales” you still open with that line. So why shouldn’t we just take everything after that as stock manipulation?
    I'm totally with you on the first sentence, but you give AppleInsider WAY too much credit for influence if you think anything they write would move AAPL's stock price even a penny. It won't. That said, the real question is why even bother reading past the first sentence (I sure didn't bother) when this is yet another example of AppleInsider's complete lack of integrity as it repeats baseless bullshite ad nauseam as if it were reporting established facts. It isn't. But hey, AppleInsider, prove me wrong! I challenge you to provide ANY actual, substantiated factual evidence that Apple Vision Pro sales have been weak to consumers. I'll wait... 


    AI is basically just reporting what Gurman wrote for Bloomberg, which actually gives out bonuses for pieces that are deemed to have "moved" the market. So, it's probably fair to equate anything from Gurman (can we just refer to him as Captain Obvious?) specifically or Bloomberg generally as intended as "stock manipulation".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 28

    AVP wasn’t a hit. 
    It wasn't meant to be "a hit." It was a developer tool. 
    Proof?
    All of the content consumption apps that Apple made.  That's the sort of stuff that developers are really into, not regular joes.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 17 of 28
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,436member

    AVP wasn’t a hit. 
    It wasn't meant to be "a hit." It was a developer tool. 
    Proof?
    There was only screens being made to produce about 400,000 units. Take out of that a percentage for manufacturing errors and replacement on a complex first gen product and they never had enough stock to every satisfy the media metric of an Apple hit. 

    Yet they have dedicated more stock to tech demos in store to build momentum for future products in the same style. 

    It’s hard to say this release was anything but a tech preview but without making early adopters jump through hoops. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 28
    jvm156jvm156 Posts: 24member
    mpantone said:
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    There are 6-8 major reasons why glasses might be better than VR/AR goggles.

    If you've used both (like me), the weight difference between glasses and googles is a *MAJOR* consideration. Even though I've been wearing glasses since childhood, I still take them off occasionally for a break. The ones of my face right now weigh about 30g. My Oculus Rift S weigh 500 g or 16x more.

    The second major thing about googles is the discomfort for various reasons after wearing over time. If they are sealed off to prevent external light, that means air circulation is poor. It's important to mention that VR goggles are full of electronics which generate heat which is difficult to dissipate entirely to the exterior. Some of the heat is directed to the interior of the heatset.

    Another issue is eye fatigue from staring a screen that is a fixed distance from your eyes. Perhaps younger eyes can handle this easier but at some point your eyes will be old and tired like mine and it's just not very comfortable doing so for longer periods of time.

    With glasses (or unaided vision), you can rest your eyes by simply staring at something else. Typical ergonomic advice recommend doing so when using computer monitors and other video screens: occasionally look at something else (at a distance, away from the monitor). This is far easier to do without an HMD.

    It's worth pointing out that a typical VR HMD isn't truly a full immersive experience because the display coverage is limited and don't provide any sort of peripheral vision. That forces you to look at the screen.

    With something like AR glasses it would be easy to turn off the AR functions and continue viewing the surroundings. With an HMD, if you stop the content, you basically have either a blank screen or some default environment. Even video passthrough is not the same as unassisted standard vision.

    There are also latency issues with all displays. Again, with a pair of glasses, you still get to view the world normally. The latency issues were particularly severe in VR HMDs in the Nineties and often caused motion sickness in users. Those negative effects have decreased by aren't gone.

    There are probably 4-6 more issues concerning VR goggles or any similar immersive HMD. It probably explains why poor man's VR (like Google Cardboard) came and went very quickly. Even amateur enthusiasts quickly recognized many of the inherent shortcomings of googles/HMDs.

    Some of the issues I've mentioned can be mitigated by better technology in the next few years but not all of them.

    I don't see how VR HMD device manufacturers can get their products down to the sub 50 g range. I also don't know how they can eliminate comfort issues associated with air circulation and heat. 

    In the end, my VR HMD sessions last about 45 minutes because of overall device wearing fatigue. One thing I found interesting is that VR HMD use makes me thirsty (probably due to google heat and poor air circulation). Even drinking a glass of water is pretty awkward with a VR HMD with video passthrough. The googles and accompanying headgear are really designed for using the device with your head more or less level. The odd weight distribution is not a particularly enjoyable sensation when you look down, up or around.

    And as you get older, the discomfort issues will become more annoying, not easier to accept.

    Again, if you have worn both regular eyeglasses and a VR/AR HMD for an extended time, all of this should be very obvious. Wearing a VR HMD isn't a joy. It's more of a duty or chore, just like wearing snow googles (which I have also worn) when you go skiing or snowboarding. It's not something anyone prefers. But snow googles don't weigh anywhere near what VR HMDs currently weigh.
    I've Watched movies in AVP for 6 hours straight before and not gotten any eye strain. it's actually quite easy on the eyes. where it strains ya is more when you're interacting  or working on it and some of that is the clarity of a proper studio display just isn't there.
    jas99williamlondonslow n easy
  • Reply 19 of 28
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,216member

    AVP wasn’t a hit. 
    It wasn't meant to be "a hit." It was a developer tool. 
    Proof?
    Apple Watch? or AirPods long slow ramp up and the Apple Vision will be the same. Like investing in Apple shares over the long haul...... Rich or Poor your choice.
    jas99
  • Reply 20 of 28
    Not news. The only way this was ever going to be a legit big deal is glasses. 

    AVP wasn’t a hit. The 2nd gen will be a bit better - mostly due to ai software - but still suffer from being a headset. 

    Untethered glasses that look like actual glasses/sunglasses will be the thing. Especially if they look like or are brand name shades (even if they are an apple design complete with signature Apple design. Not some nerdware. 
    I have zero interest whatsoever in glasses or AR. I don’t see the appeal of it or what I would use it for. I would rather buy a VR Headset.
    Curious if you've had a chance to try the AVP at an Apple Store via the 30 min demo. I'd be interested in your thoughts after, if you haven't.
Sign In or Register to comment.