Yeah I wouldn't like gold either. A blue or emerald green, maybe Sage-ish, would be fscking awesome. I'm waiting to give Apple my money. Of course the new PB will probably have a completely different case, I can't see more than one more tweak to the TiBook. It's been around for a loooong time. So I'll wait for the next fashion (oh yeah, and Bluetooth, Airport 2, 1394b, USB2, faster G4/RAM, blah blah pipe dream blah blah )
I reckon we'll see a 1 GHz G4 in the TiBook by tomorrow (Paris Expo).
I have seen some dealers desperate to throw out the end-of-life 550 MHz TiBooks, and I bet that's because the new low-end TiBook will be the 800, without any other modifications than now.
So: a 1 Ghz vs. an 800 MHz.
And then, saying the TiBook has been around for a LOOOOONG time, that's not true, my man: look at the PwB G3, which, at least from beginning 99 to beginning 2001 survived with minor changes (keyboard went bronze, firewire added). The TiBook has been around since February 2001, and has seen a bigger screen and that DVI port.
Think Secret is reporting no new hardware at Seybold or the Apple Expo. This makes sense, given the powerbook edu promotion does not expire until late September. If history is any indication, we should expect a powerbook update shortly after the promotion expires.
My question is this: the powerbook case will be two years old soon, and laptop shells tend to come and go in two year cycles. Is there any word out there on when the powerbook will get a new shell? I like the powerbook specs now, but the peeling paint, keyboard marks on the monitor, and flimsy nature of the current powerbook are not very appealing...
How can Apple justify creating another new product in this economic climate? Think Secret reports that laptop sales have decreased at the AppleStores. Do you think a new model would increase sales here?
At a minimum there should be substantial bumps to all the products (excpeting the recently intro'd PM's). They amy have missed the edu buying season, but they're still in time for back to school, and particularly for X-Mas. I wouldn't expect everything at Paris, but they'll have to start somewhere.
I'd start with iMacs. 1MB L3 cache, same psuedo DDR as the PM's, same FSB speeds (133 and 167) and the same proc speeds -- 867, 1Ghz, and 1.25. GF4MX across the board, mebbe 32 R9000 on the top. Drop the CDRW 15. Lower the combo 15 by $150 to $1349. Add a combo 17" model at the same price as the superdrive 15". You choose, superdrive or bigger screen. 867 on the entry, 1Ghz on the two middle models, 1.25Ghz on the high end.
eMacs to 800Mhz across the board, stands included, $100 price cut on both models, no other changes.
iBooks, as they are but a new middle tier machine. The gap between 1799 on the top of the iBook pile and the 2499 TiBook entry is just too much. 1999 is a sweet spot for laptops, and that's a price point they're missing. I continue to vote for some kind of Duobook with an enhanced closed book mirror capability (1 display only, but higher external res)
TiBooks...? I dunno, for the price they need a MAJOR boost. May not be possible, they might remain a bad deal untill well after X-Mas.
Hopefully (knock on wood) the best we can hope for given the prospect of no new hardware is LOWER pricing on the PowerBooks. $1,999 and $2,599 would be good for the 667MHz and 800 MHz PowerBooks respectively.
As usual, you are being completely unrealistic. The iMac with the same guts as the powermac??? Did you miss that 7lbs heat sink, that is nearly the size of the iMac form factor??
No wonder you are always so... angry. With expectations like yours, you are always bound to be disappointed.
Not unrealistic at all. It won't happen, I'll wager, but not for any technical reasons. As usual, the apologists are ready with a pre-emptive excuse for as yet un-announced hardware dissapointments.
Let me tell you how wrong you are:
It's only one processor, not two, so you can halve the heat sink right there. Which, BTW, DOES NOT weigh anywhere near 7 lbs! Also, the entire iMac dome acts as a heat-sink (that's what the heat ducting is for, and why the perforations are positioned at the top and bottom of the mac, to move air across the surface of the dome -- it's one giant heat exchanger. The design is very good at moving air with only minimal forced air assist (fan rpm to you). At least give Apple credit where they managed to earn it, the iMac is a VERY efficient design for maximum cooling effect because they've combined two elements into one, the chassis is the heat sink, open one up, take a look, you'll see what I mean. As it is, I think they only run one heat pipe from the CPU to the dome, they could easily run a second for more heat transfer if needed. Look for the "take apart" manual on the web, I think cube-zone has one on their site, you'll see that there's plenty of room for more cooling, and you'll get a better idea of how brilliant Mr. Ive really is.
If a P4 can go into a notebook, a 1Ghz plus G4 can certainly go into an iMac, as can the 1.25.
DDR??? Even better, it uses less power than SDR so it's a natural evolution for any 'efficient' computer.
GF4MX or Radeon9000, again, designed with the notebook market in mind, a natural fit for iMac style applications. Cooling? again, heat duct to the metal inner dome, add as many pipes as you need. That Ive guy really earns his pay-check, doesn't he? Maybe he should have gone into CPU design?
As long as we're talking logical evolution, some Mobo tweaking could move **both** the RAM slots to the bottom cover, and mount the airport card eMac style. This would make for a very common sense evolution of the iMac, hardly radical, but highly worthwhile.
The ONLY obstacle to faster CPU's is Apple's determination to maintain obscene margins. While the costs of LCD's and RAM may have spiked momentarily when Apple introduced the iMac, they have gone steadily downward since. The cost of DVD-RW has fallen by about 300 Canadian (200USD) since the iMac intro -- they were 800 Canadian then, they're 499 now. That 800Mhz G4 was 125 when it first came out, it certainly isn't more than 100 now, probably 90 or less. So while the component cost drop in RAM (and LCD's too) has made the 17" possible, it has also fattened the iMac's margin considerably. If Apple doesn't go for 1.25Ghz CPU's it will be because they cost about 300USD, not because they're impossible to fit, and Apple would rather keep the extra 200USD worth of profit that drive prices alone have contributed. The iMac is no longer the low margin product it was at it's debut (and as was intended by it's design brief) falling component cost have made it quite profitable.
Matsu, time to face the music. You're just plain out of it, my easily-angered friend.
BTW, the eMac only exists because of the difficult transition from CRT to LCD and the differences therein. If you recall, it was originally brought-back as an education-only solution to the problems with LCD iMacs. There's no logical reason to believe that just because there are three lines of desktop computers, there will be three laptops. Hell, there's four desktop Mac options, in all truthfulness, why are we approaching a year with three desktops, but still only have two portables? I don't see why we need three portables at all.
<strong>How can Apple justify creating another new product in this economic climate? Think Secret reports that laptop sales have decreased at the AppleStores. Do you think a new model would increase sales here?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't like to see a new mid-range model introduced, but anyway, let's think about the sales decreasing.
The PowerBook is the pro portable, the PowerMacs now are up to more than 4 times faster than the PowerBooks. Apple should not be surprised that this heavily decreases sales in the first place.
Apple is still desperately missing a middle laptop. Either a low low-end Ti or a seriously pumped up iBook will do, but 1799 to 2499 is just too big of a leap. The desktops are very nicely stratified now, with a touch of overlap that lets people choose the machine/features that suit them best. It wouldn't hurt for the laptops to follow suit. I think a 1999-2199 model is in order: perhaps a 13.3 TiBook... ummm...
The eMac is particularly upsetting because we all know that such a machine could have been ready 30 months ago. But instead Apple tried it's hand with the cube (which went nowhere only because of the ridiculous price) and the same old iMacs. Even with a G3, can you imagine how many eMacs Apple would have sold if they had released it when everybody wanted a 17" ??? Another opportunity missed <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> In any event, I don't think the eMac will dissapear from the mac lineup anytime soon. The edu angle was just a way of saving face rather than saying, "Yeah, we realize most consumers will have to prostitute a child before they can buy one of our new LCD iMacs, oh and BTW, we're raising the price." The iMac is just waiting to die, although the guts of that machine are so ridiculously cheap that a 599 internet appliance might be a neat thing to investigate for it. Given OSX/rendesvous, it would make a neat little machine to scatter around the house, and something for cash strapped schools.
Everything I said about the LCD iMac was/is true. It can handle a lot more heat than what's in it ATM. If Apple really wanted a nice Marketing angle they would go all dual pro desktops, and the same speeds for consumer desks but single only. It can be done. Margins are the only consideration.
I always thought a 14" TiBook would be perfect. You might have to give it a tray loader to the side and reposition the speakers but it would be perfect for $1999.
This is what I think will happen. The iBook will be moved to a G4 sometime early next year and the price raised a little bit. The Powerbook will drop in price and gain DDR, 167mhz bus. There will be an eBook introduced below the iBook with the old G3 architecture, except it will have an external CD drive and be super thin, light, and cheap.
<strong>I continue to vote for some kind of Duobook with an enhanced closed book mirror capability (1 display only, but higher external res)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now we're talking. I won't give up hope for a small and light new-generation dockable Duo Sub-PowerBook.
As for speed bumps, both the FP iMac and the PowerBooks need to break the Ghz barrier ASAP. There may be a Mhz Myth. But breaking barriers still has important psychological effects on buyers. Who cares if it's placebo or not.
Comments
I have seen some dealers desperate to throw out the end-of-life 550 MHz TiBooks, and I bet that's because the new low-end TiBook will be the 800, without any other modifications than now.
So: a 1 Ghz vs. an 800 MHz.
And then, saying the TiBook has been around for a LOOOOONG time, that's not true, my man: look at the PwB G3, which, at least from beginning 99 to beginning 2001 survived with minor changes (keyboard went bronze, firewire added). The TiBook has been around since February 2001, and has seen a bigger screen and that DVI port.
My question is this: the powerbook case will be two years old soon, and laptop shells tend to come and go in two year cycles. Is there any word out there on when the powerbook will get a new shell? I like the powerbook specs now, but the peeling paint, keyboard marks on the monitor, and flimsy nature of the current powerbook are not very appealing...
<strong>So, what happened in Paris?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing yet. The keynote is tomorrow.
But I really doubt anything hardware related will happen.
Just like the desktops.
eMac (entry)
iMac (mid)
PM (pro)
iBook (entry)
DuoBook (mid ???)
TiBook (pro)
Mebbe?
Hoping.
<strong>Note that there are now three 12.1" iBooks and one 14.1" one, in the USA Apple store.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, they've dropped the 14" CD model and added a 12" DVD.
That doesn't look like dropping 12" to me
<strong>
Yes, they've dropped the 14" CD model and added a 12" DVD.
That doesn't look like dropping 12" to me
The fact they have dropped the 14 CD model just before the Apple expo let me think that the ibook will not be updated at the expo.
perhaps we will see some changes in the emac, imac 2 and tibooK
concerning the tibook : why not a ddr mobo (133 mhz) with ati radeon 9000 in it
Concerning the Imac 2, i see the extension of the 133 mhz bus all over the line and geforce 4 mx for all the models.
I see the emac nearly inchanged (for not letting him jeopardize the imac sells)
I'd start with iMacs. 1MB L3 cache, same psuedo DDR as the PM's, same FSB speeds (133 and 167) and the same proc speeds -- 867, 1Ghz, and 1.25. GF4MX across the board, mebbe 32 R9000 on the top. Drop the CDRW 15. Lower the combo 15 by $150 to $1349. Add a combo 17" model at the same price as the superdrive 15". You choose, superdrive or bigger screen. 867 on the entry, 1Ghz on the two middle models, 1.25Ghz on the high end.
eMacs to 800Mhz across the board, stands included, $100 price cut on both models, no other changes.
iBooks, as they are but a new middle tier machine. The gap between 1799 on the top of the iBook pile and the 2499 TiBook entry is just too much. 1999 is a sweet spot for laptops, and that's a price point they're missing. I continue to vote for some kind of Duobook with an enhanced closed book mirror capability (1 display only, but higher external res)
TiBooks...? I dunno, for the price they need a MAJOR boost. May not be possible, they might remain a bad deal untill well after X-Mas.
As usual, you are being completely unrealistic. The iMac with the same guts as the powermac??? Did you miss that 7lbs heat sink, that is nearly the size of the iMac form factor??
No wonder you are always so...
Not unrealistic at all. It won't happen, I'll wager, but not for any technical reasons. As usual, the apologists are ready with a pre-emptive excuse for as yet un-announced hardware dissapointments.
Let me tell you how wrong you are:
It's only one processor, not two, so you can halve the heat sink right there. Which, BTW, DOES NOT weigh anywhere near 7 lbs! Also, the entire iMac dome acts as a heat-sink (that's what the heat ducting is for, and why the perforations are positioned at the top and bottom of the mac, to move air across the surface of the dome -- it's one giant heat exchanger. The design is very good at moving air with only minimal forced air assist (fan rpm to you). At least give Apple credit where they managed to earn it, the iMac is a VERY efficient design for maximum cooling effect because they've combined two elements into one, the chassis is the heat sink, open one up, take a look, you'll see what I mean. As it is, I think they only run one heat pipe from the CPU to the dome, they could easily run a second for more heat transfer if needed. Look for the "take apart" manual on the web, I think cube-zone has one on their site, you'll see that there's plenty of room for more cooling, and you'll get a better idea of how brilliant Mr. Ive really is.
If a P4 can go into a notebook, a 1Ghz plus G4 can certainly go into an iMac, as can the 1.25.
DDR??? Even better, it uses less power than SDR so it's a natural evolution for any 'efficient' computer.
GF4MX or Radeon9000, again, designed with the notebook market in mind, a natural fit for iMac style applications. Cooling? again, heat duct to the metal inner dome, add as many pipes as you need. That Ive guy really earns his pay-check, doesn't he? Maybe he should have gone into CPU design?
As long as we're talking logical evolution, some Mobo tweaking could move **both** the RAM slots to the bottom cover, and mount the airport card eMac style. This would make for a very common sense evolution of the iMac, hardly radical, but highly worthwhile.
The ONLY obstacle to faster CPU's is Apple's determination to maintain obscene margins. While the costs of LCD's and RAM may have spiked momentarily when Apple introduced the iMac, they have gone steadily downward since. The cost of DVD-RW has fallen by about 300 Canadian (200USD) since the iMac intro -- they were 800 Canadian then, they're 499 now. That 800Mhz G4 was 125 when it first came out, it certainly isn't more than 100 now, probably 90 or less. So while the component cost drop in RAM (and LCD's too) has made the 17" possible, it has also fattened the iMac's margin considerably. If Apple doesn't go for 1.25Ghz CPU's it will be because they cost about 300USD, not because they're impossible to fit, and Apple would rather keep the extra 200USD worth of profit that drive prices alone have contributed. The iMac is no longer the low margin product it was at it's debut (and as was intended by it's design brief) falling component cost have made it quite profitable.
It only hurts 'cause I'm right.
BTW, the eMac only exists because of the difficult transition from CRT to LCD and the differences therein. If you recall, it was originally brought-back as an education-only solution to the problems with LCD iMacs. There's no logical reason to believe that just because there are three lines of desktop computers, there will be three laptops. Hell, there's four desktop Mac options, in all truthfulness, why are we approaching a year with three desktops, but still only have two portables? I don't see why we need three portables at all.
<strong>How can Apple justify creating another new product in this economic climate? Think Secret reports that laptop sales have decreased at the AppleStores. Do you think a new model would increase sales here?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't like to see a new mid-range model introduced, but anyway, let's think about the sales decreasing.
The PowerBook is the pro portable, the PowerMacs now are up to more than 4 times faster than the PowerBooks. Apple should not be surprised that this heavily decreases sales in the first place.
Toby
The eMac is particularly upsetting because we all know that such a machine could have been ready 30 months ago. But instead Apple tried it's hand with the cube (which went nowhere only because of the ridiculous price) and the same old iMacs. Even with a G3, can you imagine how many eMacs Apple would have sold if they had released it when everybody wanted a 17" ??? Another opportunity missed <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> In any event, I don't think the eMac will dissapear from the mac lineup anytime soon. The edu angle was just a way of saving face rather than saying, "Yeah, we realize most consumers will have to prostitute a child before they can buy one of our new LCD iMacs, oh and BTW, we're raising the price." The iMac is just waiting to die, although the guts of that machine are so ridiculously cheap that a 599 internet appliance might be a neat thing to investigate for it. Given OSX/rendesvous, it would make a neat little machine to scatter around the house, and something for cash strapped schools.
Everything I said about the LCD iMac was/is true. It can handle a lot more heat than what's in it ATM. If Apple really wanted a nice Marketing angle they would go all dual pro desktops, and the same speeds for consumer desks but single only. It can be done. Margins are the only consideration.
<strong>I continue to vote for some kind of Duobook with an enhanced closed book mirror capability (1 display only, but higher external res)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now we're talking. I won't give up hope for a small and light new-generation dockable Duo Sub-PowerBook.
As for speed bumps, both the FP iMac and the PowerBooks need to break the Ghz barrier ASAP. There may be a Mhz Myth. But breaking barriers still has important psychological effects on buyers. Who cares if it's placebo or not.
Escher