Oof! It's a lose/lose situation for Prosser. Even if Apple loses the case, Prosser is still stuck with the costs of defending himself which, against Apple Legal, Inc, has got to reach well into the six figures range. I suspect Prosser will be moving back in with his parents or other relatives, and trading his car for a bike, by the time this is over. A settlement in advance of trial would probably still leave him feeling, like the secrets-leaking engineer sued by Apple, that this was "a profound and expensive mistake."
Get back to live keynotes. Make the videos if you wish, but the live events were so much better.
Live events are better when you have a consummate live showman like Jobs as ringmaster. And listen, I'm a big Tim Cook fan, but "consummate live showman" he is not. Jobs also had the advantage of being a worshipped genius, and the biggest of tech rock stars, which supplied its own kind of electricity to a live event, even before he said a word. The truth is that current Apple leadership is either pretty dull in front of an audience, or tries too hard not to be dull (which is even worse), with the possible exception of Eddie Cue. The videos allow for retakes, editing and production value that can mask the dullness. But I do agree that they are over-produced and overly slick, which actually results in its own kind of dullness. Honestly, if they created these videos entirely in AI this year, we probably wouldn't know the difference between AI Tim and real Tim, and that's NOT a good thing. (And if not this year, AI is the probable likely future for these videos--they'd save a fortune not having to actually shoot any of it.)
What will sites like Macrumors do if loser leakers like Prosser are finally muzzled. They may go dark.
ALL Apple news sites including AppleInsider -- not just MacRumors -- rely in part on publishing rumors. There's not enough Apple news volume to sustain a site if they just publish actual facts or discussed released hardware and software. If AppleInsider stopped publishing rumors my guess is that site traffic would fall off by three quarters.
Hell, this site posted a security warning about customer data privacy breaches at Qantas which had ZERO to do with Apple, iPhone, Mac, or anything tied to Apple. This site has repeatedly posted articles about security breaches that are written as though the problems are specific to Apple users even when they are NOT.
Note that the more absurd and farcical rumors seem to get more pageviews and reader engagement. There's a balance between publishing what everyone else is publishing and losing any modicum of journalistic integrity. That's why I have repeatedly suggested that AppleInsider and other news sites use a quantitative rumor scoring system like the StarMine system used for financial ANALysts. People who make money from predictions should be graded on their track record.
For many years this site used to slavishly report anything that ANALyst Gene Munster (often referring to him as "legendary analyst Gene Munster") used to spew until it became an SNL parody of itself.
News sites walk on a very narrow tightrope of driving pageviews and risking credibility.
Note that Prosser got the rumor right. He is accused of getting his information illegally. That's different than just making wild-arsed guesses and regurgitating it on the Internet. But for some of these rumor mongers, they don't have good inside sources so they just fabricate their "content".
AppleInsider is not immune from the same rumor-related factors that influence MacRumors, 9to5Mac, The Mac Observer, CNET, whatever.
Somewhere there's a line between satiating fanboy curiosity and industrial espionage. I don't know exactly where that is, but it's there, somewhere. Enthusiasts naturally can't wait to find out what's coming next. The same is true for competitors.
Personally, I particularly enjoy the new-patent based speculations. Patents and patent applications are public record, so there's clearly no legal issue in having a look-see. Of course, for the folks at Apple who write their patents, it has to be a fascinating creative exercise, with a dual goal of both clarity and obfuscation. Information on the technology for which patent protection is being sought has to be specific enough to create the necessary boundaries for protection of intellectual property. Then everything else in the patent has to be sufficiently vague or even sheer nonsense, in order to keep competitors off the trail of what's actually in the pipeline. The result is often a description of a novel technology being used for profoundly ridiculous purposes. The resulting reviews of these patent applications can be a fun exercise where the reader gets to try to decipher whether the reviewer gets the joke or is being too literal bout the whole thing.
Jon loves Apple. I do too. I’ve been following this site every day since 1997. It breaks my heart that Apple is suing someone who obsesses over Apple like I do. Guess it’s time for me to get a life
Prosser isn’t that dumb. If he were to discuss something that could implicate him, he’s do so in person or via pseudonym Signal chat.
That text string was clearly designed to cover his butt should the need arise. Lo and behold…
but no question, what took place was wrong on the parts of himself and even more so the person he spoke with - and quite possibly the apple employee. Have a hard time believing an employee with THAT important of a secret “forgets” to properly handle/store/secure the device. And it’s clear that he was showing it off at the least to one person who didn’t need to know.
As much as I love tech leaks, Apple should really go hard after the three of them. This is wrong. Were I the design team or apple leadership, I’d be beyond furious.
I'll wait to hear the full story from all sides but my first thought was 'Think Secret'.
AppleInsider got sued a few years before ThinkSecret, and won too.
In this climate, though, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
I miss the days when people were actually surprised during a keynote when a new product was released, because none of it was leaked beforehand.
I think a lot of us are sick of the slick, over-produced, video editor wet dreams that Apple uses to announce its products now.
Get back to live keynotes. Make the videos if you wish, but the live events were so much better.
Not so much. I wish they’d do more. Incredibly inspirational. I’ve used two of them to push my team to aim higher and strive for high quality polish. There are a lot of the wham/bam, gee wiz video edits out there. Then there is the wham bam, gee wiz that looks like a competent and caring craftsman made it. Whoever does Apple’s videos is killing it in the best way. It’s always great to see them showcase very aspirational quality.
i so here your point about live events. And that’s where apple should go a step further and combine the two. Don’t just use a led wall, use a led floor as well and curve the wall so that the “actors” can interact, blend with, and alter the digital, with props appearing in a manner that looks like the digital is morphing into a real life podium with the new Mac Pro on it, etc. we’ve seen some of this stuff at automobile intros, americas got talent shows, tech conventions, etc. would be a killer live event.
Even after the horrible things the commentoprs here are making.
Why?
Because the whole reason people read the Internet web press (including this site) come for and crave the rumor mill disguised as journalism.
at least is site is evaluative in its content.
I am 50/50
ive always enjoyed Appleinsider and others’ speculation and actual leaks. But I don’t favor the huge leaks, like the Liquid Glass leak. I think it’s cool when people speculate on a new ui. So let’s say the fact a new UI is coming is leaked. Ok. Cool. Exciting actually. But then to say its name and show renders based on the real thing is too much. Or to speculate that new AirPods Pro are coming out. Or that Apple is moving to a 2nm process for its SOCs, etc. great. But if they actually show spy shots of a Mac Pro Redesign, etc. then that’s pretty jacked up. Let us be surprised by a great apple presentation sprinkling fairy dust over it first.
But it’s a really difficult thing. Let’s say you operate a “more upstanding” tech blog or rumor site. You can take the high road, but then 10 other websites are still going to show the leak and people will give them the click revenue instead. In the end, you’ve done nothing but hurt yourself. You haven’t helped anyone at all. Not Apple, not Apple fans snd customers, and certainly not yourself.
Anyone who publish trade secret of a company without company's written approval; that person weather works for that company or stole directly or indirectly is considered trade secret criminal, traitor of country. Company and country where this company resides should punish such individual or a group to maximum extent including large fine and multiyear jail time with worse criminals in prison.
Why ? Because such act puts company's product at dis-advantage against it's competitors. Millions of developers and investors like me in Apple and thousands of employees suffer financially in a short and long run.
There’s a big difference between rumors, speculation, and someone connecting all the dots from little snippets and forensic digging through what’s openly available like text strings in binaries to reach a reasonable level of confidence that a rumor can be considered having a level of probability rather than “possibility.”
Whenever I see a score of “possibility” I brush it off because anything is possible. I’d prefer to see at least a low, medium, or high likelihood or probability. This would lend more credence to a rumor creator’s performance and be a better objective measure of how the different rumor creators compare.
Things get very cloudy when “trusted” insiders who have been granted access to confidential information for the purpose of doing their job towards bringing the new product or feature to market under Apple’s disclosure rules.
I have a lot of experience with government classification processes, or at least the way they used to be prior to the highly lossy and amateurish way they’ve been going over the passed decade. It used to be that serious violations could get you a significant visit to a federal penitentiary.
However, I really don’t know how violations to corporate trade secrets and undisclosed confidential information that lacks any ties to government, financial, or regulatory laws gets prosecuted other than within the scope of the company’s policies. A violation of any of these policies is obviously reason for immediate dismissal. I imagine the company can also sue these individual leakers for financial damages in civil court. But how does that extend to third parties who are given or sold the leak? As a legal neophyte maybe it’s considered receiving stolen property?
Like I said earlier, we will have to see how this case plays out. But I will state that this case should not be construed as a damning recrimination of sites like AppleInsider. The relationship between AppleInsider and Apple is a symbiotic one that benefits both parties. AppleInsider helps heighten appeal, excitement, and enthusiasm around known and probable upcoming Apple products and features. It keeps the juices flowing in between Apple’s public announcements. To a large extent, that is why we are here.
I think a lot of us are sick of the slick, over-produced, video editor wet dreams that Apple uses to announce its products now.
Get back to live keynotes. Make the videos if you wish, but the live events were so much better.
I certainly agree. 'Slick' has me reaching for the remote to change the channel and then reading all about it later. If I want 'slick' I'll gorge on Marvel movies. There's an element of spontaneity with live keynotes. It's like I am a part of the proceedings. When the crowd goes nuts, my heart swells a bit too. It is more engaging. But live is a like high-wire walking and that's a little too scary for Apple. Apple says, "Hey, we bought a film studio and we're going to use it." I say, put us in it immersively and we might be impressed with the presentation. Their products are always impressive. Film? Not so much. Yet.
Anyone who publish trade secret of a company without company's written approval; that person weather works for that company or stole directly or indirectly is considered trade secret criminal, traitor of country. Company and country where this company resides should punish such individual or a group to maximum extent including large fine and multiyear jail time with worse criminals in prison.
Why ? Because such act puts company's product at dis-advantage against it's competitors. Millions of developers and investors like me in Apple and thousands of employees suffer financially in a short and long run.
While you are welcome to believe what you want, none of what I have bolded is legally true in the slightest, and this is a civil matter, not a criminal one. "Traitor of country" is just ridiculous.
And, I guarantee that "developers and investors" have not suffered one whit because of what Prosser has published.
What will sites like Macrumors do if loser leakers like Prosser are finally muzzled. They may go dark.
ALL Apple news sites including AppleInsider -- not just MacRumors -- rely in part on publishing rumors. There's not enough Apple news volume to sustain a site if they just publish actual facts or discussed released hardware and software. If AppleInsider stopped publishing rumors my guess is that site traffic would fall off by three quarters.
Hell, this site posted a security warning about customer data privacy breaches at Qantas which had ZERO to do with Apple, iPhone, Mac, or anything tied to Apple. This site has repeatedly posted articles about security breaches that are written as though the problems are specific to Apple users even when they are NOT.
Note that the more absurd and farcical rumors seem to get more pageviews and reader engagement. There's a balance between publishing what everyone else is publishing and losing any modicum of journalistic integrity. That's why I have repeatedly suggested that AppleInsider and other news sites use a quantitative rumor scoring system like the StarMine system used for financial ANALysts. People who make money from predictions should be graded on their track record.
For many years this site used to slavishly report anything that ANALyst Gene Munster (often referring to him as "legendary analyst Gene Munster") used to spew until it became an SNL parody of itself.
News sites walk on a very narrow tightrope of driving pageviews and risking credibility.
Note that Prosser got the rumor right. He is accused of getting his information illegally. That's different than just making wild-arsed guesses and regurgitating it on the Internet. But for some of these rumor mongers, they don't have good inside sources so they just fabricate their "content".
AppleInsider is not immune from the same rumor-related factors that influence MacRumors, 9to5Mac, The Mac Observer, CNET, whatever.
Sure, people are hungry for news. Publishing leaks is low hanging fruit. Most websites have boring content and have to rely on leaks.
Apple is good to sue Prosser; I hope it shuts him up. Apple should also go after Macrumors and try to shut them down.
Prosser isn’t that dumb. If he were to discuss something that could implicate him, he’s do so in person or via pseudonym Signal chat.
That text string was clearly designed to cover his butt should the need arise. Lo and behold…
but no question, what took place was wrong on the parts of himself and even more so the person he spoke with - and quite possibly the apple employee. Have a hard time believing an employee with THAT important of a secret “forgets” to properly handle/store/secure the device. And it’s clear that he was showing it off at the least to one person who didn’t need to know.
As much as I love tech leaks, Apple should really go hard after the three of them. This is wrong. Were I the design team or apple leadership, I’d be beyond furious.
On the contrary, the screenshot shows that he used his phone to communicate about what he was doing. For Apple to get a subpoena to search his phone they needed cause, he just provided it. He has just opened up the entire device to be reviewed during discovery. Now, any contacts and communications on that phone are fair game. He isn't just dumb he is profoundly stupid and no lawyer would have signed off on him doing that.
Anyone who publish trade secret of a company without company's written approval; that person weather works for that company or stole directly or indirectly is considered trade secret criminal, traitor of country. Company and country where this company resides should punish such individual or a group to maximum extent including large fine and multiyear jail time with worse criminals in prison.
Why ? Because such act puts company's product at dis-advantage against it's competitors. Millions of developers and investors like me in Apple and thousands of employees suffer financially in a short and long run.
While you are welcome to believe what you want, none of what I have bolded is legally true in the slightest, and this is a civil matter, not a criminal one. "Traitor of country" is just ridiculous.
And, I guarantee that "developers and investors" have not suffered one whit because of what Prosser has published.
Yes, Apple has filed a civil lawsuit here, but "theft of trade secrets" is both a federal crime as well as a crime in most states. That said, what the OP is alleging is that publishing a trade secret is criminal, and I don't believe that's the case unless the publisher also did the theft.
Prosser isn’t that dumb. If he were to discuss something that could implicate him, he’s do so in person or via pseudonym Signal chat.
That text string was clearly designed to cover his butt should the need arise. Lo and behold…
but no question, what took place was wrong on the parts of himself and even more so the person he spoke with - and quite possibly the apple employee. Have a hard time believing an employee with THAT important of a secret “forgets” to properly handle/store/secure the device. And it’s clear that he was showing it off at the least to one person who didn’t need to know.
As much as I love tech leaks, Apple should really go hard after the three of them. This is wrong. Were I the design team or apple leadership, I’d be beyond furious.
On the contrary, the screenshot shows that he used his phone to communicate about what he was doing. For Apple to get a subpoena to search his phone they needed cause, he just provided it. He has just opened up the entire device to be reviewed during discovery. Now, any contacts and communications on that phone are fair game. He isn't just dumb he is profoundly stupid and no lawyer would have signed off on him doing that.
Which is why I surmise the real meat of the communication took place on Signal.
And now that I think about it, he probably used Signsl on a totally different device than that iMessage. Prosser isn’t going to go around promoting unreleased trade secrets without a competent lawyer/legal team. People who tend to operate on the fringes of the law tend to be up to speed on how to hide what they’re doing.
I like a good rumor or even leak as much as anyone. But on the big things, I just feel bad for those who worked so hard to surprise and delight only to be deflated by some lard with a camera and a platform beating them to the punch with their own creation.
Prosser has his moments. But this was just really pretty sad.
I'll wait to hear the full story from all sides but my first thought was 'Think Secret'.
AppleInsider got sued a few years before ThinkSecret, and won too.
In this climate, though, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
And ThinkSecret did not win their lawsuit and got shut down for the leaks they posted on their website. I miss the days when people were actually surprised during a keynote when a new product was released, because none of it was leaked beforehand.
I also miss those days. It was more fun seeing new products that no one knew about, than watching a keynote where almost everything was known ahead of time. No surprises. Now it is like almost watching a keynote where new products aren’t there because everybody already know about them. I wish Apple would be more secretive and guard software and hardware really well.
That’s so-called friend of the Apple employee that guy ain’t no friend of yours if he gets you fired from a six figure per year job by accessing your phone without your knowledge? Would that possibly generate another suit by the former Apple employee? Against Jon Prosser and Michael Ramacciott for being fired, would you sue your ex-friend over damages from a six figure job lost and a career going down the toilet?
Comments
Live events are better when you have a consummate live showman like Jobs as ringmaster. And listen, I'm a big Tim Cook fan, but "consummate live showman" he is not. Jobs also had the advantage of being a worshipped genius, and the biggest of tech rock stars, which supplied its own kind of electricity to a live event, even before he said a word. The truth is that current Apple leadership is either pretty dull in front of an audience, or tries too hard not to be dull (which is even worse), with the possible exception of Eddie Cue. The videos allow for retakes, editing and production value that can mask the dullness. But I do agree that they are over-produced and overly slick, which actually results in its own kind of dullness. Honestly, if they created these videos entirely in AI this year, we probably wouldn't know the difference between AI Tim and real Tim, and that's NOT a good thing. (And if not this year, AI is the probable likely future for these videos--they'd save a fortune not having to actually shoot any of it.)
Hell, this site posted a security warning about customer data privacy breaches at Qantas which had ZERO to do with Apple, iPhone, Mac, or anything tied to Apple. This site has repeatedly posted articles about security breaches that are written as though the problems are specific to Apple users even when they are NOT.
Note that the more absurd and farcical rumors seem to get more pageviews and reader engagement. There's a balance between publishing what everyone else is publishing and losing any modicum of journalistic integrity. That's why I have repeatedly suggested that AppleInsider and other news sites use a quantitative rumor scoring system like the StarMine system used for financial ANALysts. People who make money from predictions should be graded on their track record.
For many years this site used to slavishly report anything that ANALyst Gene Munster (often referring to him as "legendary analyst Gene Munster") used to spew until it became an SNL parody of itself.
News sites walk on a very narrow tightrope of driving pageviews and risking credibility.
Note that Prosser got the rumor right. He is accused of getting his information illegally. That's different than just making wild-arsed guesses and regurgitating it on the Internet. But for some of these rumor mongers, they don't have good inside sources so they just fabricate their "content".
AppleInsider is not immune from the same rumor-related factors that influence MacRumors, 9to5Mac, The Mac Observer, CNET, whatever.
Personally, I particularly enjoy the new-patent based speculations. Patents and patent applications are public record, so there's clearly no legal issue in having a look-see. Of course, for the folks at Apple who write their patents, it has to be a fascinating creative exercise, with a dual goal of both clarity and obfuscation. Information on the technology for which patent protection is being sought has to be specific enough to create the necessary boundaries for protection of intellectual property. Then everything else in the patent has to be sufficiently vague or even sheer nonsense, in order to keep competitors off the trail of what's actually in the pipeline. The result is often a description of a novel technology being used for profoundly ridiculous purposes. The resulting reviews of these patent applications can be a fun exercise where the reader gets to try to decipher whether the reviewer gets the joke or is being too literal bout the whole thing.
but no question, what took place was wrong on the parts of himself and even more so the person he spoke with - and quite possibly the apple employee. Have a hard time believing an employee with THAT important of a secret “forgets” to properly handle/store/secure the device. And it’s clear that he was showing it off at the least to one person who didn’t need to know.
Not so much. I wish they’d do more. Incredibly inspirational. I’ve used two of them to push my team to aim higher and strive for high quality polish. There are a lot of the wham/bam, gee wiz video edits out there. Then there is the wham bam, gee wiz that looks like a competent and caring craftsman made it. Whoever does Apple’s videos is killing it in the best way. It’s always great to see them showcase very aspirational quality.
i so here your point about live events. And that’s where apple should go a step further and combine the two. Don’t just use a led wall, use a led floor as well and curve the wall so that the “actors” can interact, blend with, and alter the digital, with props appearing in a manner that looks like the digital is morphing into a real life podium with the new Mac Pro on it, etc. we’ve seen some of this stuff at automobile intros, americas got talent shows, tech conventions, etc. would be a killer live event.
I am 50/50
ive always enjoyed Appleinsider and others’ speculation and actual leaks. But I don’t favor the huge leaks, like the Liquid Glass leak. I think it’s cool when people speculate on a new ui. So let’s say the fact a new UI is coming is leaked. Ok. Cool. Exciting actually. But then to say its name and show renders based on the real thing is too much. Or to speculate that new AirPods Pro are coming out. Or that Apple is moving to a 2nm process for its SOCs, etc. great. But if they actually show spy shots of a Mac Pro Redesign, etc. then that’s pretty jacked up. Let us be surprised by a great apple presentation sprinkling fairy dust over it first.
Things get very cloudy when “trusted” insiders who have been granted access to confidential information for the purpose of doing their job towards bringing the new product or feature to market under Apple’s disclosure rules.
I certainly agree. 'Slick' has me reaching for the remote to change the channel and then reading all about it later. If I want 'slick' I'll gorge on Marvel movies. There's an element of spontaneity with live keynotes. It's like I am a part of the proceedings. When the crowd goes nuts, my heart swells a bit too. It is more engaging. But live is a like high-wire walking and that's a little too scary for Apple. Apple says, "Hey, we bought a film studio and we're going to use it." I say, put us in it immersively and we might be impressed with the presentation. Their products are always impressive. Film? Not so much. Yet.
And, I guarantee that "developers and investors" have not suffered one whit because of what Prosser has published.
Apple is good to sue Prosser; I hope it shuts him up. Apple should also go after Macrumors and try to shut them down.