From what I understand, I find it extremely difficult to believe Apple will win this. It seems to be more of an intimidation tactic to shut him up. Unless they can prove he knowingly, accessed trade secrets in an unlawful way, they would have a very difficult time at trial, I think. But the point is, they have unlimited resources and he does not. So he really can’t win.
And this is another reason I hold tje view that Gurman is an authorized “leaker,”/Apple misinformation/misdirection Trojan horse.
When Apple wants to point people elsewhere, there’s Gurman with “oops. Guess I was wrong.”
When Apple wants to fisher interest and reaction, here’s Gurman with a highly plausible leak.
When Apple wants people thinking a certain way but not knowing exactly what the end result is, here’s Gurman either a vague, but ultimately in the money hot take.
And to ensure that no one suspects this, here’s Gurman with an actual full blown leak.
That also helps explain how ine can have a recurring newsletter dedicated to this stuff without being so wrong so often that all credibility is lost.
Gurman has been right. A lot. But you never hear of Apple going after the guy.
Mark Gurman just throws a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks and then claims he was right, when he just changed his story about 18 times to make it "right". You just really never know with him. I think he definitely has a source inside Apple or a manufacturing partner or something like that but it's only a matter of time before they get caught too.
Prosser isn’t that dumb. If he were to discuss something that could implicate him, he’s do so in person or via pseudonym Signal chat.
That text string was clearly designed to cover his butt should the need arise. Lo and behold…
but no question, what took place was wrong on the parts of himself and even more so the person he spoke with - and quite possibly the apple employee. Have a hard time believing an employee with THAT important of a secret “forgets” to properly handle/store/secure the device. And it’s clear that he was showing it off at the least to one person who didn’t need to know.
As much as I love tech leaks, Apple should really go hard after the three of them. This is wrong. Were I the design team or apple leadership, I’d be beyond furious.
On the contrary, the screenshot shows that he used his phone to communicate about what he was doing. For Apple to get a subpoena to search his phone they needed cause, he just provided it. He has just opened up the entire device to be reviewed during discovery. Now, any contacts and communications on that phone are fair game. He isn't just dumb he is profoundly stupid and no lawyer would have signed off on him doing that.
Which is why I surmise the real meat of the communication took place on Signal.
And now that I think about it, he probably used Signsl on a totally different device than that iMessage. Prosser isn’t going to go around promoting unreleased trade secrets without a competent lawyer/legal team. People who tend to operate on the fringes of the law tend to be up to speed on how to hide what they’re doing.
I like a good rumor or even leak as much as anyone. But on the big things, I just feel bad for those who worked so hard to surprise and delight only to be deflated by some lard with a camera and a platform beating them to the punch with their own creation.
Prosser has his moments. But this was just really pretty sad.
I mean great conjecture but there is no reason to believe any of that. I'd be surprised, downright shocked, to find out that a guy that posts rumors on Youtube has a lawyer on retainer let alone an actual legal team. His "I look forward to speaking to Apple about this" comment is a pretty good indication of just how out of his element he is. Apple isn't going to deal with him directly. Apple isn't even using their in-house legal counsel for this. They have retained a private law firm, Morrison and Foster, to litigate this for them. So the only people he is talking to are employees of the court or Morrison and Foster. Lastly, the first thing a lawyer will tell their client is to not talk about the lawsuit. Anything he says about the case is admissible and can also be used when considering damages.
Using Signal doesn't matter if the communications are subpoena, if he is ordered to provide communications he has to do it, not doing so would result in being held in contempt. I guess you argue that he would like about having Signal or other devices but doing so would be a really good way to end up in jail.
I read the lawsuit filing and it looks like Apple already has a lot of information about the communications that happened between Prosser, Ramacciott and the named Apple employee. They even have an audio recording of Ramacciott admitting to the whole thing. Once this thing gets rolling and we find out what Apple already knows it is going to get interesting. I recommend reading the filing, Daring Fireball has it linked.
Jon will quietly settle and be out of the leaker business. Read the suit: they have ample evidence of him directing his source to knowingly and illegally access Apple property for money.
Apple is suing someone for ruining a surprise that the next OS was going retro with a refreshed version of 'Aqua". Tim and company, just can't excite the masses any longer with an overwrought OS, catch up technologies or products which only billionaire tech bro's could love (or afford). Someone please re-animate the corpse of Steve Jobs.
I'll wait to hear the full story from all sides but my first thought was 'Think Secret'.
AppleInsider got sued a few years before ThinkSecret, and won too.
In this climate, though, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
And ThinkSecret did not win their lawsuit and got shut down for the leaks they posted on their website. I miss the days when people were actually surprised during a keynote when a new product was released, because none of it was leaked beforehand.
the problem is, no one is excited or surprised during the keynotes, not because of leaks, but because Apple can't churn out anything to be surprised or get excited about! I mean, seriously, any idiot can predict a slimmer, lighter iPhone with a new chip in it and 23 minutes more battery life than last gen! Is that exciting to you?
I know about people’s ‘need’ to know about everything Apple is doing but wasn’t it so much better when what was announced by Steve on stage was a total surprise. Imagine if all of the MacBook Air or the iPhone had been released in detail beforehand - half the fun of the show would have been seriously diluted.
It’s like receiving a present - we get it wrapped and we don’t know what it is until we open it. And we love that.
I'll wait to hear the full story from all sides but my first thought was 'Think Secret'.
AppleInsider got sued a few years before ThinkSecret, and won too.
In this climate, though, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
And ThinkSecret did not win their lawsuit and got shut down for the leaks they posted on their website. I miss the days when people were actually surprised during a keynote when a new product was released, because none of it was leaked beforehand.
the problem is, no one is excited or surprised during the keynotes, not because of leaks, but because Apple can't churn out anything to be surprised or get excited about! I mean, seriously, any idiot can predict a slimmer, lighter iPhone with a new chip in it and 23 minutes more battery life than last gen! Is that exciting to you?
It is mostly because of the leaks.
I know it’s a techie/Apple fanboy’s wet dream to have something as dramatic as an iPhone launched every year but reality doesn’t work that way. (Disclaimer: I’ve used nothing but Apple stuff since I bought the Macintosh in ‘84). There’s no company announcing radical new products each and every year. What you get are advances on existing products - faster, better screens, more memory, OS updates. That’s the way it works for any company - Meta, Samsung, Google, or whoever. Yes, there’s folding phones but whether they are gimmicks or practical devices remains to be seen. AI pin? How did that exciting new products go?
If you really, genuinely expect Apple to announce something really new and exciting every year you are plain deluded. Think back to the days of Steve Jobs. He announced the Macintosh in 1984 but what did you get after that? Updated Macs. A laserWriter. More updated Macs. Updated OS. More updated Macs. The next really new ‘exciting’ thing after that was the iPod in 2001 - that was 17 years later! (Yes, I know he wasn’t at Apple the entire time). Eight years later you got the iPhone, so for seven years all you got was faster processors, bigger disks and maybe better screens. Not exactly ‘exciting’ by your reckoning I’ll wager.
So, in the real world, genuinely new products don’t come along that often. From anyone.
Apple is suing someone for ruining a surprise that the next OS was going retro with a refreshed version of 'Aqua". Tim and company, just can't excite the masses any longer with an overwrought OS, catch up technologies or products which only billionaire tech bro's could love (or afford). Someone please re-animate the corpse of Steve Jobs.
I hear what you’re saying. I have also called Liauid Glass “Aqua 2.0.”
but the reality is that Aqua absolutely ROCKED the industry as THE UI that everyone wanted. Countless versions existed as Windows UI hacks. And it influenced the graphic and web design worlds tremendously.
Even though Mac OS had to inevitably “mature” in its UI, much was lost in terms of beauty, fun factor, and thoughtful touches. It seemed like magic at the time just how well curated it came to be.
But over time, it had become outdated as everything does with age.
So this is the spirit that innovative era as it would exist in the modern, cutting edge day. It’s impressive.
Of course, in its ambition, it will undergo refinements as the excitement of design meets testing and the reality of legibility/usability constraints.
Contrast that with half-baked “material design” which is just a confused mess thst doesn’t know if it wants to be flat or skeuomorphic and ends up just being meatloaf.
The original skeuomorphic iOS was great for its time. Ive’s flat design was absolutely perfect for its time. Yet even it needed refinement over time. And this liquid glass design is pretty much what we need at this time in history. It’s beautiful, if overdone in areas -as aqua was. But it will be refined over time as well.
Ultimately there is nothing retro about it other than the spirit of the thing. They’re improving functionality while going hung ho with design and adding the thoughtful touches and magical aura that had been lost for a bit.
This isn’t what Aqua was.
This is ehst Aqua would have been if it was created from scratch with modern vision, ideas and tech in 2025.
Rumors based on speculation, predictive behaviour and past experiences are free speech and fair game. Reporting on rumors is free speech/journalism -- and contrary to Anthrowback Gagmewithaspoon, sites/publications cannot be sued for reporting claims that may or may not turn out to be true.
If Prosser actually stole or facilitated the stealing and publishing of confidential documents/information, on the other hand, THAT is a crime.
I have no idea how this will turn out, but it will likely be an open-and-shut case. Apple would not sue if they didn't think they had hard evidence of a crime, and its army of lawyers are going to be a formidable foe for any individual to overcome.
Prosser talking about talking to Apple means he knows he's in deep and it will get over his head if he doesn't do something. I'm thinking this won't go to trial, not because Apple doesn't have a case. But because they do, they know it, Prosser knows it, and any council he retains will know it. Apple will shut him down and he'll fade away.
I don't go to rumor sites for the rumors, but like the actual news and reviews. I miss the "old days" of lively keynotes and being surprised by some new stuff. But Steve isn't here to wow us with his presence. So that means live Keynotes aren't that entertaining. The "slick" presentations get a lot of information out in a short time and let me see some Apple faces I'd never know about otherwise.
So many Apple products have matured to a point that there's not much reason to expect The Big Surprise or the One More Thing. So the slick prerecorded Keynote makes sense. Yet people think they're entitled to something startlingly new, year after year.
I will read the odd rumor here and elsewhere when it's like "Tim ordered from GrubHub, can a new monitor be far behind??" But when they're not the product of market trends, supply chain fluctuations, or new facilities being built, and instead actual leaks, I try to skip. Reading leaks which may or may not turn out to be valid spoils it for me. It's like someone telling me how a movie ends before I've had a chance to see it. Or saying "you think you know the ending but there's a plot twist and when you think you know, there's another plot twist back to the... I don't want to know any of that. So even a mundane spec bump is better as a "surprise".
I'll wait to hear the full story from all sides but my first thought was 'Think Secret'.
AppleInsider got sued a few years before ThinkSecret, and won too.
In this climate, though, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
And ThinkSecret did not win their lawsuit and got shut down for the leaks they posted on their website. I miss the days when people were actually surprised during a keynote when a new product was released, because none of it was leaked beforehand.
I also miss those days. It was more fun seeing new products that no one knew about, than watching a keynote where almost everything was known ahead of time. No surprises. Now it is like almost watching a keynote where new products aren’t there because everybody already know about them. I wish Apple would be more secretive and guard software and hardware really well.
Apple competitors around the world also rush to beat Apple to market with similar products further diminishing excitement for Apple’s product events.
From what I understand, I find it extremely difficult to believe Apple will win this. It seems to be more of an intimidation tactic to shut him up. Unless they can prove he knowingly, accessed trade secrets in an unlawful way, they would have a very difficult time at trial, I think. But the point is, they have unlimited resources and he does not. So he really can’t win.
Exactly right--Apple has Prosser between a rock and a hard place. Apple could lose at trial and still inflict huge financial pain on Prosser through what his defense will cost. And I'm sure there are all kinds of legal maneuvers Apple could use to run up the bill. It's really a question now of how big an example does Apple want to make of Prosser.
Some things don’t really add up to the story. I’m glad Apple is plugging the leaks, but the financial consequences to this poor engineer seem very harsh. Then again they may not be completely buying his innocence and I have to say neither am I.
Talk about petty. Opinions on Liquid Glass are mixed at best and Apple is struggling with Siri and AI. I’ve never watched this Prosser guy but this is just Apple lashing out because of their own failings and picking on someone as a warning to others.
Just about every product Apple makes gets leaked, likely by Apple themselves in many cases (see article about dual iPad cameras FaceTime this). This website reports on most of them. It makes no difference in the scheme of things.
Comments
Using Signal doesn't matter if the communications are subpoena, if he is ordered to provide communications he has to do it, not doing so would result in being held in contempt. I guess you argue that he would like about having Signal or other devices but doing so would be a really good way to end up in jail.
I read the lawsuit filing and it looks like Apple already has a lot of information about the communications that happened between Prosser, Ramacciott and the named Apple employee. They even have an audio recording of Ramacciott admitting to the whole thing. Once this thing gets rolling and we find out what Apple already knows it is going to get interesting. I recommend reading the filing, Daring Fireball has it linked.
It’s like receiving a present - we get it wrapped and we don’t know what it is until we open it. And we love that.
I know it’s a techie/Apple fanboy’s wet dream to have something as dramatic as an iPhone launched every year but reality doesn’t work that way. (Disclaimer: I’ve used nothing but Apple stuff since I bought the Macintosh in ‘84). There’s no company announcing radical new products each and every year. What you get are advances on existing products - faster, better screens, more memory, OS updates. That’s the way it works for any company - Meta, Samsung, Google, or whoever. Yes, there’s folding phones but whether they are gimmicks or practical devices remains to be seen. AI pin? How did that exciting new products go?
If you really, genuinely expect Apple to announce something really new and exciting every year you are plain deluded. Think back to the days of Steve Jobs. He announced the Macintosh in 1984 but what did you get after that? Updated Macs. A laserWriter. More updated Macs. Updated OS. More updated Macs. The next really new ‘exciting’ thing after that was the iPod in 2001 - that was 17 years later! (Yes, I know he wasn’t at Apple the entire time). Eight years later you got the iPhone, so for seven years all you got was faster processors, bigger disks and maybe better screens. Not exactly ‘exciting’ by your reckoning I’ll wager.
So, in the real world, genuinely new products don’t come along that often. From anyone.
but the reality is that Aqua absolutely ROCKED the industry as THE UI that everyone wanted. Countless versions existed as Windows UI hacks. And it influenced the graphic and web design worlds tremendously.
I don't go to rumor sites for the rumors, but like the actual news and reviews. I miss the "old days" of lively keynotes and being surprised by some new stuff. But Steve isn't here to wow us with his presence. So that means live Keynotes aren't that entertaining. The "slick" presentations get a lot of information out in a short time and let me see some Apple faces I'd never know about otherwise.
So many Apple products have matured to a point that there's not much reason to expect The Big Surprise or the One More Thing. So the slick prerecorded Keynote makes sense. Yet people think they're entitled to something startlingly new, year after year.
I will read the odd rumor here and elsewhere when it's like "Tim ordered from GrubHub, can a new monitor be far behind??" But when they're not the product of market trends, supply chain fluctuations, or new facilities being built, and instead actual leaks, I try to skip. Reading leaks which may or may not turn out to be valid spoils it for me. It's like someone telling me how a movie ends before I've had a chance to see it. Or saying "you think you know the ending but there's a plot twist and when you think you know, there's another plot twist back to the... I don't want to know any of that. So even a mundane spec bump is better as a "surprise".
Just about every product Apple makes gets leaked, likely by Apple themselves in many cases (see article about dual iPad cameras FaceTime this). This website reports on most of them. It makes no difference in the scheme of things.