I have an old Spider Man cartoon on tape (a friend gave ti to me for 3 cigarettes it rules) where Spider Man sees Juggernaut going after them at the mansion and together he and the X-men save the day.
just as an addendum to this point, some comics readers will remember when marvel utterly torpedoed itself by mucking around with the spider-man history in '95/'96, when peter parker wasn't really peter parker, and they decided to re-write 40-50 years of history for shock value... this didn't bring in any new readers, and did more to piss off regular fans and send them into the independent comics (nothing wrong with that) or onto other things.
there was an interesting documentary on todd mcfarlane several years ago that briefly touches on his problems with the marvel editors at the time. plus, it was during those years that many of the marvel regulars, under the aegis of jim lee and scott williams (one of x-men's greatest artists), formed what is now known as image comics in san diego.
y'know, i know way too much about this stuff.
Didn't all that Spiderman stuff happen after Image was formed? I thought it was much earlier 90's, when Marvel was getting desparate for new characters and started really strong arming artists for their IP that those top artists left and formed Image. I thought Image ws formed between 90 and 92, with 92 being when the first production comics were released. Biggest thing i remember about that time was that I had stopped collecting around 91 and Image brought me back to collecting for a year or 2. Image was great, it returned comics to the quality that was last seen around the mid eighties at Marvel.
Didn't all that Spiderman stuff happen after Image was formed? I thought it was much earlier 90's, when Marvel was getting desparate for new characters and started really strong arming artists for their IP that those top artists left and formed Image. I thought Image ws formed between 90 and 92, with 92 being when the first production comics were released. Biggest thing i remember about that time was that I had stopped collecting around 91 and Image brought me back to collecting for a year or 2. Image was great, it returned comics to the quality that was last seen around the mid eighties at Marvel.
in broad strokes, it went something like this...
massive comic popularity from '90-'92, especially in collectible older issues (which is why many sports collectible shops got into the biz, spawning the now recognizable Simpson's "Comic Book Guy" persona -- they knew how to sell collectibles like baseball cards, so collectible comics seemed to be a natural addendum).
chris claremont/jim lee/scott williams working on x-men together around '90-92 (i know because i was buying those comics my last few years in high school), where the writing and art were at an all-time high. marvel sees this, and tries to capitalize with more and more emphasis on x-titles and crossovers.
todd mcfarlane working on spidey around '90-'92, but leaves due to creative differences with marvel editorial staff. erik larsen takes over for a little while (maybe a year?), then leaves to join image comics, which has by now been formed by...
...claremont, lee and williams, who all leave in the avalanche of marvel talent around the same time ('92? i think i was a senior in high school when i bought gen13 issue #1), "inspired" by todd's defection (and the fact that true "fanboys" were recognizing the art and writing as opposed to the brand.
marvel was now suffering creative and artistic drain. their "best" artist was rob liefield, whom most cognescenti regard as the biggets poser in the comic book biz (for example, EVERY frame had action lines as people leaped acrodd view, grimacing the entire way. didn't matter if they were passing the butter at the dinner table, it was always accompanied by a "here you GO!!!! WHAM!" -- plus, the guy never drew feet. that just bugged me). they had a few up-and-comers, like john romita's son, but no one well-established, and everyone was gettign worn thin compensating for the departed colleagues. they limped along for a few years, trying MANY crossovers to spur new readership in lagging sales for other titles.
anyway, in an attempt to spike readership as regular fans began to migrate with their favorite authors and artists, decide in '94 (?) to unearth a nigh-unknown villain known as the "jackal" in the spider-man storyline, who supposedly in the 1960's (in a few issues who no one bought or cared about) swapped peter parker with a clone of his named "ben." so therefore, the readership was supposed to swallow that the past 30+ years of peter parker was really his doppleganger, and that the real peter parker was led to believe HE was the clone all these years.
marvel also tried other hotshotting techniques after that, such as killing off most of the avengers int he onslaught/x-men crossover (you should start seeing a pattern here) in '96. but rather than using this opportunity to clean up the histories of these characters, they simply used this as an excuse for more alternat-timeline crap with various captain americas running around, etc.
this is about the time i totally gave up on them.
needless to say, this all led to marvel's eventual declaration of bankruptcy to protect them from creditors when their title sales went to crap after angering their most loyal readership.
p.s. funny thing is, dc comics attempted the same type of "shock value" stories when they had superman "die" (which actually was a good storyline), and "evolve" into a blue and white electric guy (which was NOT a good storyline), in an attempt to grab marvel defecting readership.
Does that have anything to do with the all X-Men stuff I see now (excluding the movie stuff) looking like it was drawn by an ex-Pokemon artist? When I worked at Burger King we had X-Men toys, but they were from X-Men Evolution. I was so pissed, I don't care if Wolverine is supposed to be a teenager, he shouldn't look like a Back Street Boy.
Does that have anything to do with the all X-Men stuff I see now (excluding the movie stuff) looking like it was drawn by an ex-Pokemon artist? When I worked at Burger King we had X-Men toys, but they were from X-Men Evolution. I was so pissed, I don't care if Wolverine is supposed to be a teenager, he shouldn't look like a Back Street Boy.
The sad thing is I think he was one of the few characters who wasn't a teenager. I guess the art director felt that didn't preclude him from being a Backstreet Boy
Wow, I loved the movie. I remember, vaugly, the TV show I watched when I was a kid (On FoxKIDS baby!). I loved the entire Wolverine backstory (in the show) and IMHO it was done beautifly in the movie. What was the name of the facility that Striker controled? And why exactly was a US Military R&D base in Canada? For some reason I always thought that Wolverine was created by those crazy Canadians.
Comments
Originally posted by rok
just as an addendum to this point, some comics readers will remember when marvel utterly torpedoed itself by mucking around with the spider-man history in '95/'96, when peter parker wasn't really peter parker, and they decided to re-write 40-50 years of history for shock value... this didn't bring in any new readers, and did more to piss off regular fans and send them into the independent comics (nothing wrong with that) or onto other things.
there was an interesting documentary on todd mcfarlane several years ago that briefly touches on his problems with the marvel editors at the time. plus, it was during those years that many of the marvel regulars, under the aegis of jim lee and scott williams (one of x-men's greatest artists), formed what is now known as image comics in san diego.
y'know, i know way too much about this stuff.
Didn't all that Spiderman stuff happen after Image was formed? I thought it was much earlier 90's, when Marvel was getting desparate for new characters and started really strong arming artists for their IP that those top artists left and formed Image. I thought Image ws formed between 90 and 92, with 92 being when the first production comics were released. Biggest thing i remember about that time was that I had stopped collecting around 91 and Image brought me back to collecting for a year or 2. Image was great, it returned comics to the quality that was last seen around the mid eighties at Marvel.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Didn't all that Spiderman stuff happen after Image was formed? I thought it was much earlier 90's, when Marvel was getting desparate for new characters and started really strong arming artists for their IP that those top artists left and formed Image. I thought Image ws formed between 90 and 92, with 92 being when the first production comics were released. Biggest thing i remember about that time was that I had stopped collecting around 91 and Image brought me back to collecting for a year or 2. Image was great, it returned comics to the quality that was last seen around the mid eighties at Marvel.
in broad strokes, it went something like this...
massive comic popularity from '90-'92, especially in collectible older issues (which is why many sports collectible shops got into the biz, spawning the now recognizable Simpson's "Comic Book Guy" persona -- they knew how to sell collectibles like baseball cards, so collectible comics seemed to be a natural addendum).
chris claremont/jim lee/scott williams working on x-men together around '90-92 (i know because i was buying those comics my last few years in high school), where the writing and art were at an all-time high. marvel sees this, and tries to capitalize with more and more emphasis on x-titles and crossovers.
todd mcfarlane working on spidey around '90-'92, but leaves due to creative differences with marvel editorial staff. erik larsen takes over for a little while (maybe a year?), then leaves to join image comics, which has by now been formed by...
...claremont, lee and williams, who all leave in the avalanche of marvel talent around the same time ('92? i think i was a senior in high school when i bought gen13 issue #1), "inspired" by todd's defection (and the fact that true "fanboys" were recognizing the art and writing as opposed to the brand.
marvel was now suffering creative and artistic drain. their "best" artist was rob liefield, whom most cognescenti regard as the biggets poser in the comic book biz (for example, EVERY frame had action lines as people leaped acrodd view, grimacing the entire way. didn't matter if they were passing the butter at the dinner table, it was always accompanied by a "here you GO!!!! WHAM!" -- plus, the guy never drew feet. that just bugged me). they had a few up-and-comers, like john romita's son, but no one well-established, and everyone was gettign worn thin compensating for the departed colleagues. they limped along for a few years, trying MANY crossovers to spur new readership in lagging sales for other titles.
anyway, in an attempt to spike readership as regular fans began to migrate with their favorite authors and artists, decide in '94 (?) to unearth a nigh-unknown villain known as the "jackal" in the spider-man storyline, who supposedly in the 1960's (in a few issues who no one bought or cared about) swapped peter parker with a clone of his named "ben." so therefore, the readership was supposed to swallow that the past 30+ years of peter parker was really his doppleganger, and that the real peter parker was led to believe HE was the clone all these years.
marvel also tried other hotshotting techniques after that, such as killing off most of the avengers int he onslaught/x-men crossover (you should start seeing a pattern here) in '96. but rather than using this opportunity to clean up the histories of these characters, they simply used this as an excuse for more alternat-timeline crap with various captain americas running around, etc.
this is about the time i totally gave up on them.
needless to say, this all led to marvel's eventual declaration of bankruptcy to protect them from creditors when their title sales went to crap after angering their most loyal readership.
p.s. funny thing is, dc comics attempted the same type of "shock value" stories when they had superman "die" (which actually was a good storyline), and "evolve" into a blue and white electric guy (which was NOT a good storyline), in an attempt to grab marvel defecting readership.
Originally posted by iBrowse
Does that have anything to do with the all X-Men stuff I see now (excluding the movie stuff) looking like it was drawn by an ex-Pokemon artist? When I worked at Burger King we had X-Men toys, but they were from X-Men Evolution. I was so pissed, I don't care if Wolverine is supposed to be a teenager, he shouldn't look like a Back Street Boy.
The sad thing is I think he was one of the few characters who wasn't a teenager. I guess the art director felt that didn't preclude him from being a Backstreet Boy