Didja see that Photoshop bench? The 970 pounds the crap (we're talking transparent here...) outta the P4!!!!!!
I don't care which Wintel universe you're from, THAT'S GOTTA HURT!!!
STICK THAT UP YOUR WINTEL FAWNING JACKSY, TOM'S HARDWARE...I DARE YA TA IGNORE PPC NOW!!!!!!!!
Those benches will send shockwaves out to the workstation community. No wonder that 65% of them planned on getting an Apple workstation soon!!!! Son of a...
Wow-a...look at 3D performance...wahh...ha-hah-ha....beats the snot out of the Intel on Bryce, Cinema...and can you only imagine the optimisations Newtek could do for 970 LW? Oh-boy!
The implication for Virtual PC is that a dual 970 will own yer average Wintel celeron's ass...
Gee, guess Adobe will make us buy XP versions of their software see as we can run it fast enough in emulation?
Not a chance, boys. Not a chance.
Where's my cheque book...?
Come on, Apple: SHOW ME...THE MONEY!!! SHOW! ME! THE MONEY!!!
Can this be the reason why Jobs and co have seen so calm and confident in the recent time. Extremely confident, cool, laidback keynote at MWSF. Stockholders meeting was being held in a calm and confident manner. All this despite falling marketshare, dwindling powermac sales. And i don't think the music store can explain this confidence. Ah, and Panther is coming and is supposed to be very cool. I think Steves WWDC keynote is going to be one of the best ever. Imagine those PS bakeoffs .
Can this be the reason why Jobs and co have seen so calm and confident in the recent time. Extremely confident, cool, laidback keynote at MWSF. Stockholders meeting was being held in a calm and confident manner. All this despite falling marketshare, dwindling powermac sales. And i don't think the music store can explain this confidence. Ah, and Panther is coming and is supposed to be very cool. I think Steves WWDC keynote is going to be one of the best ever. Imagine those PS bakeoffs .
Netro. This would indeed explain why Apple didn't blink when Virtual PC was bought. (There's the other, older emulation favourite that's being worked on closely with Apple...and said company.)
No wonder they didn't seem too bothered about 'power'Mac sales with this baby around the corner. Can you say: 'We're about to double to tripple our tower sales? With Q6 beta just out and 'reviewed' by Macuser...Summer quarter results will be stunning if you take into account the new iPods, music juke box stores and the new 970s!!!
No wonder Panther is supposed to be re-defining. The 970 allows the wildest ideas to come true!!!!!!
Yeah, i take you on the bake-off! Can you imagine the gasps of disbelief as the 970 low end model sweeps past the 3 gig Intel? And the dual 1.8 970 simply blows it right out of the water?!?!?!?
When Steve said Apple had a trick up its sleeve re: desktop computers...he wasn't kidding, was he?
I think Steve has been waiting a loooong time for this. I somehow think he'll reaaaallly enjoy the WWDC keynote.
Intel, bend over the royal reaming of a life time!
I've been made aware that these benchmarks are probably FAKE. Bruce 5 does not take advantage of dual processors as the benchmarks show.
I'd just like to point out that you're assuming that the performance improvement on the 1.8 dual is due to the dual processors. There could be other things about the machine which cause the performance improvement -- increased clock rate, L3 cache, faster memory. I'm not saying I believe they are real but this isn't enough information to label them as fake. As always we won't know the truth until the machines are actually available for testing.
I didn't think the 970 made any provision for an L3 cache?
It's funny; I'm actually more interested in the other implications of the technologies coming up. Sure, it's a given that the 970 will rock, especially at 90nm, and even if it doesn't live up to some of the expectation in this thread.
But a CPU this powerful, fabbed at 90nm (so it can run cool, and be inexpensive) hooked up to a RapidIO fabric, with some of the data compression technologies Apple's patented (I note, also, that the latest nVIDIA board uses similar tricks)... this is a sea change. Personal computers have been dominated by the CPU for years, and the CPU has been starved for as many years on all platforms; workstations and larger computers have not. If you have massive motherboard bandwidth, superfast I/O and an excellent support architecture, then the CPU doesn't have to be all that hot for the machine to be powerful. This is how IBM has been able to sell $8000 workstations powered by 604s.
Now that design philosophy is coming to the personal computer. We've already had a taste of it with Quartz Extreme, and we'll see more. With a fast switched fabric, every part on the board can run at peak efficiency, and all at once. The parts are incredible: Dual-channel DDR II RAM, FW 800/1600/3200, Gb and 10Gb ethernet, 2Gb Fiber Channel (on the Xserve), the 970, and the next generation of GPUs. What's really amazing is that we're going to get a much better CPU and it won't have as much grunt work to do and it'll be fed data much more efficiently, and it'll be able to deliver results much more quickly. It's not at all an understatement to say that the technologies coming on line right now will allow the personal computer to be completely rethought.
If there's any company in the world that can sit down and carry the implications of a technology through to their logical conclusion, it's Apple - partly because of their discipline, and partly because they don't have to accomodate the tremendous inertia of a commodity market. They've already been moving this way for some time now, and they're just about to shift into overdrive.
The result will be incredible in practice, even if the 970 doesn't post the highest SPEC scores.
Regarding the "faked" Bryce scores. FYI There are claims that a beta of version 6 of Bryce supporting SMP is drifting around on the backstreets of the net and this was used for the test.
If the 970 duals is on par with the Xeon duals, single P4 inWinXP home edition is a road kill We will have the largest leap in performance in the history of the Macintosh!
I didn't think the 970 made any provision for an L3 cache?
It doesn't need to, the chipset can provide an L3 just like the L2 was provided in the 8500/9500 machines in the mid-90s. Since the 970's FSB isn't so much of a bottleneck an L3 might be useful to reduce pressure on the memory subsystem from dual 1.8 GHz processors, the GPU on AGP, and the rest of the I/O system. There is a heated debate about this over on Ars, although I don't know why they are debating it -- if it makes sense from an engineering price/performance point of view then Apple will do it, if it doesn't they won't. Caches are well proven to improve performance, so the decision will be based on the details of the available technology.
Quote:
It's funny; I'm actually more interested in the other implications of the technologies coming up. Sure, it's a given that the 970 will rock, especially at 90nm, and even if it doesn't live up to some of the expectation in this thread.
I agree with you Amorph. Hardware is changing faster now than it ever has. We're going to start seeing more processors and more dedicated hardware like DMA engines, GPUs, audio processors, vector processors, etc. VLSI-integration is rapidly reaching new heights and Apple finally has a modern OS that they can build on in a effective manner. The processor(s) will remain an important piece, but it will not dominate all tasks all the time like it has in the past. At the low end (at least), however, the increasing level of integration (and IBM's particular interest in it) will result in more of the system moving onto the processor's die. At the higher end some of this may happen, but we're also going to see many processors per die and many threads per processor.
The really interesting thing about all this, to me, is how the software will evolve to use it... in the end the hardware is really all about the software you run on it.
Regarding the "faked" Bryce scores. FYI There are claims that a beta of version 6 of Bryce supporting SMP is drifting around on the backstreets of the net and this was used for the test.
If the 970 duals is on par with the Xeon duals, single P4 inWinXP home edition is a road kill We will have the largest leap in performance in the history of the Macintosh!
Your thread may have been first by a few minutes, but the other thread (MacBidouille posts PPC 970 benchmarks) has more replies and doesn't have AN ANNOYINGLY CAPITALIZED THREAD TITLE.
Comments
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
OH-MY-WORD. OH-MY-WORD. OH-MY-WORD!!!
Apple legions unite...it's time to storm the gates of Redmond...
No need.
When a kingdom's knights and citizens just up and move, the old king will just crumble under the weight of his own crown...
Originally posted by Nitzer
When a kingdom's knights and citizens just up and move, the old king will just crumble under the weight of his own crown...
Ahhh.... someone who knows his politics
I don't care which Wintel universe you're from, THAT'S GOTTA HURT!!!
STICK THAT UP YOUR WINTEL FAWNING JACKSY, TOM'S HARDWARE...I DARE YA TA IGNORE PPC NOW!!!!!!!!
Those benches will send shockwaves out to the workstation community. No wonder that 65% of them planned on getting an Apple workstation soon!!!! Son of a...
Wow-a...look at 3D performance...wahh...ha-hah-ha....beats the snot out of the Intel on Bryce, Cinema...and can you only imagine the optimisations Newtek could do for 970 LW? Oh-boy!
The implication for Virtual PC is that a dual 970 will own yer average Wintel celeron's ass...
Gee, guess Adobe will make us buy XP versions of their software see as we can run it fast enough in emulation?
Not a chance, boys. Not a chance.
Where's my cheque book...?
Come on, Apple: SHOW ME...THE MONEY!!! SHOW! ME! THE MONEY!!!
Lemon Bon Bon
(You know, crashes at these speeds may hurt)
Can this be the reason why Jobs and co have seen so calm and confident in the recent time. Extremely confident, cool, laidback keynote at MWSF. Stockholders meeting was being held in a calm and confident manner. All this despite falling marketshare, dwindling powermac sales. And i don't think the music store can explain this confidence. Ah, and Panther is coming and is supposed to be very cool. I think Steves WWDC keynote is going to be one of the best ever. Imagine those PS bakeoffs .
Netro. This would indeed explain why Apple didn't blink when Virtual PC was bought. (There's the other, older emulation favourite that's being worked on closely with Apple...and said company.)
No wonder they didn't seem too bothered about 'power'Mac sales with this baby around the corner. Can you say: 'We're about to double to tripple our tower sales? With Q6 beta just out and 'reviewed' by Macuser...Summer quarter results will be stunning if you take into account the new iPods, music juke box stores and the new 970s!!!
No wonder Panther is supposed to be re-defining. The 970 allows the wildest ideas to come true!!!!!!
Yeah, i take you on the bake-off! Can you imagine the gasps of disbelief as the 970 low end model sweeps past the 3 gig Intel? And the dual 1.8 970 simply blows it right out of the water?!?!?!?
When Steve said Apple had a trick up its sleeve re: desktop computers...he wasn't kidding, was he?
I think Steve has been waiting a loooong time for this. I somehow think he'll reaaaallly enjoy the WWDC keynote.
Intel, bend over the royal reaming of a life time!
Lemon Bon Bon
A 1.4 beats the 3
My God.....
Originally posted by NETROMac
So what's up with the Bryce 5 score. Is it fake, or does Panther make two processors appear as one to the applications ?? Strange, strange indeed.
I think they scaled the time from the 1.4 and then halfed it not realizing that Bryce doesn't support dual processors.
Originally posted by Nitzer
I think they scaled the time from the 1.4 and then halfed it not realizing that Bryce doesn't support dual processors.
Seems like it, doesn't it. They should have done better research before posting these "fake-marks" then
Originally posted by NETROMac
Seems like it, doesn't it. They should have done better research before posting these "fake-marks" then
I don't care if the initial 1.4 score is correct. These machines are going to rock!
Originally posted by Nitzer
I don't care if the initial 1.4 score is correct. These machines are going to rock!
Good point. And people there's only...
Originally posted by Existence
I've been made aware that these benchmarks are probably FAKE. Bruce 5 does not take advantage of dual processors as the benchmarks show.
I'd just like to point out that you're assuming that the performance improvement on the 1.8 dual is due to the dual processors. There could be other things about the machine which cause the performance improvement -- increased clock rate, L3 cache, faster memory. I'm not saying I believe they are real but this isn't enough information to label them as fake. As always we won't know the truth until the machines are actually available for testing.
It's funny; I'm actually more interested in the other implications of the technologies coming up. Sure, it's a given that the 970 will rock, especially at 90nm, and even if it doesn't live up to some of the expectation in this thread.
But a CPU this powerful, fabbed at 90nm (so it can run cool, and be inexpensive) hooked up to a RapidIO fabric, with some of the data compression technologies Apple's patented (I note, also, that the latest nVIDIA board uses similar tricks)... this is a sea change. Personal computers have been dominated by the CPU for years, and the CPU has been starved for as many years on all platforms; workstations and larger computers have not. If you have massive motherboard bandwidth, superfast I/O and an excellent support architecture, then the CPU doesn't have to be all that hot for the machine to be powerful. This is how IBM has been able to sell $8000 workstations powered by 604s.
Now that design philosophy is coming to the personal computer. We've already had a taste of it with Quartz Extreme, and we'll see more. With a fast switched fabric, every part on the board can run at peak efficiency, and all at once. The parts are incredible: Dual-channel DDR II RAM, FW 800/1600/3200, Gb and 10Gb ethernet, 2Gb Fiber Channel (on the Xserve), the 970, and the next generation of GPUs. What's really amazing is that we're going to get a much better CPU and it won't have as much grunt work to do and it'll be fed data much more efficiently, and it'll be able to deliver results much more quickly. It's not at all an understatement to say that the technologies coming on line right now will allow the personal computer to be completely rethought.
If there's any company in the world that can sit down and carry the implications of a technology through to their logical conclusion, it's Apple - partly because of their discipline, and partly because they don't have to accomodate the tremendous inertia of a commodity market. They've already been moving this way for some time now, and they're just about to shift into overdrive.
The result will be incredible in practice, even if the 970 doesn't post the highest SPEC scores.
If the 970 duals is on par with the Xeon duals, single P4 inWinXP home edition is a road kill
Originally posted by Amorph
I didn't think the 970 made any provision for an L3 cache?
It doesn't need to, the chipset can provide an L3 just like the L2 was provided in the 8500/9500 machines in the mid-90s. Since the 970's FSB isn't so much of a bottleneck an L3 might be useful to reduce pressure on the memory subsystem from dual 1.8 GHz processors, the GPU on AGP, and the rest of the I/O system. There is a heated debate about this over on Ars, although I don't know why they are debating it -- if it makes sense from an engineering price/performance point of view then Apple will do it, if it doesn't they won't. Caches are well proven to improve performance, so the decision will be based on the details of the available technology.
It's funny; I'm actually more interested in the other implications of the technologies coming up. Sure, it's a given that the 970 will rock, especially at 90nm, and even if it doesn't live up to some of the expectation in this thread.
I agree with you Amorph. Hardware is changing faster now than it ever has. We're going to start seeing more processors and more dedicated hardware like DMA engines, GPUs, audio processors, vector processors, etc. VLSI-integration is rapidly reaching new heights and Apple finally has a modern OS that they can build on in a effective manner. The processor(s) will remain an important piece, but it will not dominate all tasks all the time like it has in the past. At the low end (at least), however, the increasing level of integration (and IBM's particular interest in it) will result in more of the system moving onto the processor's die. At the higher end some of this may happen, but we're also going to see many processors per die and many threads per processor.
The really interesting thing about all this, to me, is how the software will evolve to use it... in the end the hardware is really all about the software you run on it.
Originally posted by DrBoar
Regarding the "faked" Bryce scores. FYI There are claims that a beta of version 6 of Bryce supporting SMP is drifting around on the backstreets of the net and this was used for the test.
If the 970 duals is on par with the Xeon duals, single P4 inWinXP home edition is a road kill
We've needed it.
Originally posted by onlooker
We've needed it.
I also don't think its true. The MacPlus -> MacII, for example, was a 3-4x increase in performance which is more than I expect this time.
Carry on in the other thread.
*close*