G4 iBook...when do you imagine?
Taking into account the several things we know (or that seem to be pretty locked-in): Jobs called 2003 the "year of the...", there's all this talk of the 970 coming (possibly even on PowerBooks), OS X really likes a G4, etc.
With all the above, who here believes that there will be G4-based iBooks by autumn? Little chance? No chance? Big chance?
I know, I know...it's their "consumer" laptop and all. But the iMac was their consumer desktop too.
And the eMac was meant for schools initially. Both of those models have G4s. The iBook, as we all know, is the lone standout in the lineup.
I used both and there is a difference between OS X performance on a G3-based machine and a G4 of some sort. Since Apple is obviously putting all their eggs in the OS X basket and only moving forward, how much longer do you think they'll leave their popular iBook with a chip that is perceived to be "yesterday's news" (yeah, yeah...most here say that about the G4...spare me).
Also, one final question: IF the iBook gets a G4 (and, say, AirPort Extreme...and MAYBE Bluetooth), is there any reason why it would cost significantly more than the current models?
Knowing what you guys know about processors, should iBooks suddenly jump up into the mid-$1000's or stay pretty much where they are ($999-$1799).
In other words, a 12" 900MHz G3 iBook now costs $1299. Is it possible that a 12" 1GHz (assuming they'll do the standard 100MHz speed bump with a new model release) G4 iBook cost somewhere around that too?
Also (sorry), a G4-based iBook with AirPort Extreme and (possible) Bluetooth...that would probably require a bit of a redesign, right? No way they could pop in a G4 to the current iBook design/style? Heating issues and all?
I'm just asking for informed, well-reasoned opinions (I know...I'm in the wrong forum...).
If anyone has any true, serious inside dirt (but doesn't want to spill it here for any number of reasons), feel free to e-mail me privately to share...and I promise not a WORD of it goes beyond us.
Scout's honor.
With all the above, who here believes that there will be G4-based iBooks by autumn? Little chance? No chance? Big chance?
I know, I know...it's their "consumer" laptop and all. But the iMac was their consumer desktop too.
And the eMac was meant for schools initially. Both of those models have G4s. The iBook, as we all know, is the lone standout in the lineup.
I used both and there is a difference between OS X performance on a G3-based machine and a G4 of some sort. Since Apple is obviously putting all their eggs in the OS X basket and only moving forward, how much longer do you think they'll leave their popular iBook with a chip that is perceived to be "yesterday's news" (yeah, yeah...most here say that about the G4...spare me).
Also, one final question: IF the iBook gets a G4 (and, say, AirPort Extreme...and MAYBE Bluetooth), is there any reason why it would cost significantly more than the current models?
Knowing what you guys know about processors, should iBooks suddenly jump up into the mid-$1000's or stay pretty much where they are ($999-$1799).
In other words, a 12" 900MHz G3 iBook now costs $1299. Is it possible that a 12" 1GHz (assuming they'll do the standard 100MHz speed bump with a new model release) G4 iBook cost somewhere around that too?
Also (sorry), a G4-based iBook with AirPort Extreme and (possible) Bluetooth...that would probably require a bit of a redesign, right? No way they could pop in a G4 to the current iBook design/style? Heating issues and all?
I'm just asking for informed, well-reasoned opinions (I know...I'm in the wrong forum...).
If anyone has any true, serious inside dirt (but doesn't want to spill it here for any number of reasons), feel free to e-mail me privately to share...and I promise not a WORD of it goes beyond us.
Scout's honor.
Comments
I think NO iBook should cost more than $2000. EVER (and that's shooting REALLY high...$1600-1700 is more like it).
And I think ALL PowerBooks should have AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, FireWire 800, DVI/ADC-out AND illuminated keyboards. The 12" PowerBook, cool and nice as it is, lacks three of those (the 17" has them and I'm quite sure the new aluminum 15" will). The 12" almost, but not quite, seems like a "throw together" or "let's get a G4 laptop, but cripple it a bit just so we can get it to $1799".
That's iBook territory. You took what could've been the coolest 12" laptop EVER and left out some things that would've given it that status. I realize that's how it is currently. Maybe it'll change.
I wouldn't mind if the 12" PowerBook cost over $2000 IF it had the same matching features (listed above) as its two big brothers. Most people wouldn't either, I'd imagine (hell, say $1999 just to be safe). Then you'd have a nice matched, shared set of features that's logical and spans the product (PowerBook) line and makes sense. Then, at that point, you're just paying for screen size and optical drive. But those wanting a 12" model aren't without the cooler features of the other two. Or, conversely, what if someone wanted a 17" PowerBook but only wanted the Combo Drive and could save a few hundred bucks? That should be an option too (but that's another thread...).
Then let a line of G4-based iBooks (spanning throughout the $1000-range) cover the consumer end. Slower bus (100MHz, like the eMac and original LCD iMac), no lighted keyboards, no FireWire 800, no monitor spanning, etc. to differentiate them from the fuller-featured (and pricier) PowerBooks.
Just like the differences between the G4 towers and the iMac: both G4-based: one just has a little more "oomph" with faster bus speeds, faster hard drives, cache, etc..
Now, that $2000 point above is arbitrary. I wouldn't mind if the whole damn scale slid down quite a bit (high-end iBook was, say, $1599 and low-end 12" PowerBook (with all the goodies of the 15" and 17" models) was $1899 or whatever.
I think we can all agree we'd like to see Apple skootch their prices down a tad where possible.
Just a clear mark/break between the two where you knew EXACTLY what you were getting: consumer or pro. Consumer G4 serves most people, but if you're paying for a "pro" PowerBook (of ANY size) then you get all the cool things introduced on the 17" model.
Make sense?
I'm having a laptop kinda day today...just thinking out loud.
Originally posted by pscates
And I think ALL PowerBooks should have AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, FireWire 800, DVI/ADC-out AND illuminated keyboards. The 12" PowerBook, cool and nice as it is, lacks three of those (the 17" has them and I'm quite sure the new aluminum 15" will). The 12" almost, but not quite, seems like a "throw together" or "let's get a G4 laptop, but cripple it a bit just so we can get it to $1799".
That's exactly what I'm thinking as well, pscates! The value in the iBooks is unbeatable. But the PowerBooks are not about value, they're about POWER and features. I wouldn't mind paying more than $2000 for a 12-inch PowerBook if it could accomodate 1GB RAM and came with DVI-out (a 1Ghz processor would be nice too). As so many have pointed out, the 12-inch PowerBook is really a souped up iBook. So there's absolutely no reason why Apple couldn't shoehorn a G4 into the current iBook line.
I still think that my iBook/500/CD-ROM was an excellent value at $1299 (less at edu price) two years ago. And $999 for an iBook/800 today is still unbeatable, even with "only" a G3. For all I care they can keep a G3 in the $999 model. But the higher-end iBooks should start moving toward the G4, so that I can hopefully buy a 970-based 12-inch PowerBook before the year is out.
Escher
I just think it's logical that stuff within a certain category (PowerBook, for example) should simply share basic, core features. Then the customer just makes a decision based on budget, screen size and optical drive. Easy for customers, easy for Apple, easy for potential switchers, easy for reviewers (ha!), etc.
All this 970 talk flying around...if, say by early 2004, the PowerBooks got that (some think it's even BEFORE then), then there's another defining break line: the G4 would become the new "consumer" chip or marker, like the G3 was. Except, unlike the G3, it's OS X friendlier and all, not to mention better with iPhoto, iMovie, etc. Everyone wins. Those wanting the big guns can get the 970-equipped Power Macs and PowerBooks.
I kinda hope with all this coming up, some sort of sensible, easier-to-figure out grid comes back into play: 970 = pro, G4 = consumer. Right now it's a mess.
"The iMac is a G4, right?"
"No, there's a G3 model also."
"What color is it?"
"White."
"Well, that's the one I saw on that commercial...I heard it's a G4."
"That one is."
"So it's that big rounded one then?"
"No, that's an eMac."
"Okay, so the eMac is a G3 machine..."
"No, it's a G4."
"So what's got the G3?"
"The white iMac."
"They're ALL white, asshead!"
"So then the iBook is a G4?"
"No. G3."
"How about the eBook?"
"There is no eBook."
"Who's on first?"
"The iMac is a G4, right?"
"No, there's a G3 model also."
"What color is it?"
"White."
"Well, that's the one I saw on that commercial...I heard it's a G4."
"That one is."
"So it's that big rounded one then?"
"No, that's an eMac."
"Okay, so the eMac is a G3 machine..."
"No, it's a G4."
"So what's got the G3?"
"The white iMac."
"They're ALL white, asshead!"
"So then the iBook is a G4?"
"No. G3."
"How about the eBook?"
"There is no eBook."
"Who's on first?"
LMAO!!
My opinion is that we will never see a Motorola G4 inside of the iBook. And so it have been for a very long time. And with what steve Jobs stated at the shareholders meeting my sucpision gets even more ground.
A concern about hardware speeds was expressed. Jobs first made point that clock speed does not necessarily tell the whole story, and that even Intel is emphasizing diminishing importance of clock speed as it release new portable processors that are faster at slower clock speeds. He then acknowledged that it is a problem, and that Apple is very aware of the issue. He said "there will be a time" when Apple would speak about its relationship with Motorola, and that the particular shareholder who asked the question would be invited, if he desired.
http://thinksecret.com/news/shareholdersmeeting03.html
This leads me to think what we will see in the iBook is the mystic g3++ with 200Mhz bus and so on.
This also leads me to think that Apple will not use the g3 and g4 names anymore. I think they will be called what they are ppc 7xx and ppc 970 as these names have been used by people who are talking about these prosessors.
I also think that the 12" PB is a sign, if the iBook was to go G4 they would not have made a powerbook that went into competition with one of their other lines.
Mark my word.
iBooks are VALUE and PowerBooks are POWER.
I don't believe in hobbling consumer iBooks with slower cpu's just for the psychological heck of it unless it makes them cheaper. Maybe there may be issues of temperature that may keep a plastic iBook from warming to the G4 like the alumi PB, but other than that the G4's should be as cheap as G3's by now. I used to think that the iBook should get a 1.5mghz G3 before it gets a 800mghz G4, but not anymore.
At our local Mac stores (no Apple stores in Portland, Ore yet, though I don't think we really need them since the resellers here are excellent) I have played with the 12" PB's and I set up the cpu monitor and try to max out the Quartz Extreme. Sometimes the PB seems snappier than other and sometimes I am amazed by power and sometimes it seems really pokie. So it is a good machine even if it is just thrown together.
Here's to Rev. 2.....I'm trying not to count on any 970's until 2004 though.
Originally posted by Nilka
It is not very often that I post in this forum but now I would really like to.
My opinion is that we will never see a Motorola G4 inside of the iBook. And so it have been for a very long time. And with what steve Jobs stated at the shareholders meeting my sucpision gets even more ground.
http://thinksecret.com/news/shareholdersmeeting03.html
This leads me to think what we will see in the iBook is the mystic g3++ with 200Mhz bus and so on.
This also leads me to think that Apple will not use the g3 and g4 names anymore. I think they will be called what they are ppc 7xx and ppc 970 as these names have been used by people who are talking about these prosessors.
I also think that the 12" PB is a sign, if the iBook was to go G4 they would not have made a powerbook that went into competition with one of their other lines.
Mark my word.
I agree. While the 7457 is a fine processor, Motorola is not going to push the G4 as far and quick as Apple needs. IBM has better fabs and are designing better processors at the time, and a cheap/fast G3+ with SIMD-capabilities with a RapidIO/HT interface should be more attractive in the long term (and short term considering redesign cost&efforts).
But I think the current G3 is unsufficient, just like the G4 is unsufficient for the pro-lineup.
This is just my take on it, but I keep hearing so many people go, "oh, but it still just has a G3 in it...get a PowerBook instead."
256 meg soldered on would be nice ... but why not just have 2 slots, one filled with a 256?
Apple has got to stop this soldered onto the motherboard crap.
But it's not so much specific hardcore specs I'm after (those change, get bumped, etc.). It's the idea of all the PowerBooks sharing core features (Bluetooth, FireWire 800, lit keyboard, pro-level bus/cache specs, higher-end video cards, etc.) and the iBooks doing the same, albeit on a lower, more consumer-oriented (cheaper) level (FireWire 400 vs. 800, slower bus, etc.).
That's all. Gotta be something to separate the pro from the consumer. But the above isn't meant to be a specific feature/spec fest...just an overall illustration of how one line shares the basic package and optical drive, screen size and hard drive sizes determine which one is purchased.
That kinda answers Stoo's question too.
1. Choices and BTO, in particular the Combo/Super choice across all models!
2. Illuminated keyboards on all PB's.
3. Make the iBooks a full range of products!
But I would change:
1. Go ahead an solder one of the memory slots in the iBooks, but keep all slots open in the PB's and charge the extra $20 for the labor.
2. Do we really need USB 2 yet?
3. Bump iBook bus speed to 133 or whatever just to give Quartz Extreme a little boost....unless it is significantly more expensive. The sub$1k iBook (and preferrably sub$800 iBook price levels are worth the power hit.
4. Make the iBook SE widescreen 15" wide. I think a 14" widescreen loses too much vertical real estate. It's okay to have overlap with the 15" PBook because as you point out, it's standard equipment will make for plenty of seperation.
5. Is Airport Extreme significantly more expensive than regular Airport?
6. Make differences in screen resolution significant and let the PBooks with upgradeable graphic cards...okay, I am losing your sense of keeping it realistic....
But I think USB 2.0 rivals FireWire 800 in speed, so I'd leave it off the iBooks.
Am I right in any way about USB 2.0? If not, disregard the above.
If the Mac side isn't going to go to USB 2.0, then just mentally change the graphic above to USB 1.1 on the PowerBooks.
And "okay" on the 14" to 15" widescreen Special Edition iBook. I'll get those molding machines cranking up tonight. I am, after all, currently making plastics!
Little AI humor for my homeys...
FireWire 800 may not be entirely practical for an iBook, though.
I consider it a pro-level thing (towers and PowerBooks).
Originally posted by MacGregor
Oh, MacGregor, must you pull at my heartstrings like that?
Escher