Year of the powerbook indeed!

jcrsantiago

The power consumption of a 970 is higher then a g4, but lower then a pentium 4. even the 4m need 24 watts to work at 1.6ghz

at 1.1 ghz the 970 only need 19 watts. i think the 970 at low ghz can happen in a powerbook, even this year if they wanted to.



http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/.../ppc970-1.html

1337_5l4xx0r

Dude, it totally could. Which leaves me wondering why it took years to get a G4 powerbook. They were feasible from the start(?)



I totally expect PPC970 powerbooks. Or elese powerbook sales to flag like current PMacs, as people 'wait' for a 970 powerbook. Like I'd buy a G4 powerbook after seeing 970 specs.

mac os x addict

May be we will see both a 970 PM and a PB come June. How sweet would that be.

brian green

I agree with the above statements. Those of us reading these forums and all the hints about the 970 will certainly wait for the 970 to be released before we purchase another Mac. I have several grand just waiting in the bank for the 15.4 Power Book with a 970 on the inside. A killer GPU would be a welcome improvement over current offerings as well. I look at buying computers like I look at buying cars. Sure, I have one now and it does get me around where I need it to, so it's not like I'm so desperate to part with my cash when Apple offers a minute bump in speed. We have people on these forums still using the old beige boxes that are like a 1970's Beetle. Sure they may not be the most impressive things to look at, and they may not even drive very fast, but they do...eventually...get you where you want to go. So we're all waiting in the wings for the 970 PB and I certainly hope it comes sooner rather than later. If not, my cash just builds interest. The other thing Apple could do to throw a wrench in people's lives is to make Panther work only with the G4's and the 970's. Sure it would piss people off, but in the end, they sure as hell aren't making money on those folks out there nursing clamshell iBooks, Wallstreet Powerbooks, and the like. So if you were running a business (and Apple is a business regardless of how much we would like to believe that they are only in existance to give us free stuff) you'd want to make a profit, and the best way to make a profit is to sell an operating system that only works with new hardware. Sure you'd resist. Sure you'd complain. Perhaps you'd even pout a little. But when cool new features spring up that only work with the new OS (like we saw with Jaguar), you'll either upgrade to a new model or you won't. One will give you new features, one won't. The biggest complaint I've heard so far in all of these forums is that people are running software that currently isn't available in OS X. Quark is rapidly becoming a swear word to Mac users. Bet twenty minutes with Joe Pesci and a baseball bat could properly motivate them to get the thing up and running, or at least clear out a few positions for fresh blood to come in and actually make the thing work. As for any other OS 9 program out there that you're running, I guess if the program were really that great they'd rewrite it to OS X. Those that don't, get left behind. It's called evolution. Only the strongest survive. So hopefully the new Power Books will sport the 970, and who knows, perhaps Panther will not be backward compatible and those of you using older stuff will just be stuck with using your older stuff. After all, I'm sure there are still people out there dedicated to their Apple IIe's. For the rest of us, let the good times roll.

macmike

I agree that the 970 will probably come this year. I don't think Steve could just start January with the "Year of the Laptops" statement and not do more than introduce the 12 and 17 that day (and mild updates after that).



I hope the 970 Powerbooks would be released at the same time as the Powermacs... (at WWDC). But I wouldn't be surprised if they came out a few months later (to make sure IBM can keep up with demand.

messiah

I still think they should release the 970 laptop before the tower.



A real double "f**k you" to the Wintel World.

placebo

I think that the Xserve will be updated to 970 (and maybe the xGrid will be introduced), and of course the Powermacs will get their 970. We'll have to wait until maybe september to get the Powerbooks. I hope that the 970 release is huge: giant, slick ad campaign, in-store events (with t-shirts!), and of course, plenty of 970 to go around.

clive

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Green

I agree with the above statements. Those of us reading these forums and all the hints about the 970 will certainly wait for the 970 to be released before we purchase another Mac...

The cool thing about this: think of all the interest you'll get from the bank for depositing money with them for that period. You'll get, what, 2%?



Way to go dude!

escher

Do you guys remember when Apple said the MWSF 2001 announcement would go "beyond the rumor sites, way beyond"? And then all we got was the expected LCD iMac and many were disappointed? I just hope the "Year of the PowerBook" is not similarly misleading and we don't have to wait until Spring 2004 to see the 970 in the PowerBook line! \



I've been saying that I'm waiting for a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook with at least a 1Ghz G4 (plus 1GB RAM and DVI-out). But a 970-based 12-incher, even at the same 1Ghz, would kick double the ass.



Here's hopin'...



Escher

brian green

I have to admit that when it comes to Steve wanting to blow away the competition the best way for him to do that is to introduce BOTH the Power Book and the Power Mac with the 970. Most people seem to think that IBM is a small little farm company that couldn't possibly meet the demands of Apple processor requirements for both the PB and the PM. Get real. Moto is getting their ass handed to them by IBM. Not only is a company fab like IBM most certainly able to keep up with demand, it'll do so without Apple having white nuckles worrying about how many processors they get from IBM. So please people, do not put IBM and Moto in the same group. They aren't even in the same league. IBM will get Apple all the processors it needs in a timely manner for BOTH the Power Book and Power Mac. The choice will be Apple's. I personally hope they choose to launch both at the same time. It's easy to do, and so what if the 12" and 17" PB's don't get 970's the first round. Wahhhh. I'm sure Steve will really be worried when he sees the spike of 15.4's being sold. Sell a few more 15.4's and you make the same amount of cash that you would selling the 17's. Apple knows the 970 will be a success, so introducing the 15.4 and the Power Mac simultaneously would be the smartest move to make, We all know there is demand, so let the supply roll.



Cooling the PB is something people use as an excuse to give the PM the 970 first. I have to say that with idiotic companies like Dell, a hot laptop is the result of not really caring about the consumer. This couldn't be further from the truth in regard to Apple. The 15.4 with the 970 will have a new motherboard, therefore new internal components. Who is to say that Apple hasn't directly attacked the heat issue with new dispersal methods and shielding techniques? Are you saying that Apple's technicians are a bunch of idiots who couldn't possibly handle the heat issue of the 970? Do you all think that such an issue is far beyond them? I certainly hope you're not thinking that.



As for Clive's comment about the 2% interest I'll be making as my money sits in the bank waiting for the purchase of the 970 PB, all I have to say is this. Free money, is the best money. :-)

fred_lj

Apple already has a handle on cooling with the current iteration of G4s in the Titanium Powerbook; and it's pretty obvious the aluminum casing goes beyond mere aesthetics.



As for the footlong getting a 970 --- I wouldn't bet on it. For the mobility it offers, the current proc. gets the job done, and there's not much room in that case as is ('been hearing about minor heat problems with the 867 G4 in it). I would think the 12" would get the 970 (if not all the PowerBooks) by the time the 90nm process chips are ready come Oct-Nov. of this year.

brian green

fred-lj, good point about the aluminum doing more than looking nice. That's where all the PB's will have a heat dissipating advantage. When it comes to the 12" getting the 970 I think you're on target with that one too. I also think that Apple is looking to shake things up with this transition. Going with a new OS point update and an all new architecture / CPU is going to really be stirring things up. I believe that Apple is well aware that people are going to get pissed off about the moves it's going to make, but for Apple to press forward and begin building market share it's going to have to resort to some extreme measures. I'd like to see intial release of 15.4" PB with the 970, and the new PM with dual 970's both on stage with Steve at the same time, both running Panther. I'd also like to see OS 9 get dropped on it's head. It has lingered long enough. If people out there insist upon using it, so be it. But you'll use it on an old machine. The companies and users out there still using OS 9 products in new machines are going to have to be taught that they were given fair warning and that they should have migrated to different OS X software rather than cross their fingers and pray that Apple will allow new machines to run old software. If I were in a position to decide such a fate for OS 9 software in Apple, I'd bring the ax down with 10.3. and the 970. The new stuff is where Apple is taking the industry, the new 15.4 and the new PM. If I were able to control production at Apple, I'd also release new iBooks with G4's, but that's another story. The foot long PB does feel a little cramped, not much elbow room inside, but I wouldn't put it past Apple to figure out a way to make the 970 snuggle in. Even before the new fab process later this year for the 970. Or we could be logical here for a second and say that the PB will span out powerwise. The 17" gets dual 970's, the 15.4 gets one, and the 12" gets a G4. The 17" will certainly one-up the 15.4, but not in this release. Apple will return the glory to the 15.4, even if for only half to three quarters of a year. And we all have to admit that the glowing keyboards will rock as well. One thing I've only heard a whisper or two about is the sound in the new PB's. Anyone hear anything about an upgrade to sound quality?

jcrsantiago

Quote:

Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R

Dude, it totally could. Which leaves me wondering why it took years to get a G4 powerbook. They were feasible from the start(?)

Keep in mind that the G4 in the current powerbooks uses less engery and heat then the first versions 'G4e'

kidred

Guys it was 'year of the notebook'. That had/has nothing to do with any features or upcoming CPUs. It meant sales. Notebook sales at Apple were nearly 50% of total sales and over all in the PC sector, Toshiba sold more laptops then HP, Gateway and a few otehrs sold desktops. IDG said this is 'the year of the notebook'. I guess Jobs just saw that coming.

brian green

KidRed you make a good point, now just imagine how many laptops Apple will sell with the new 970 in them. I'd like to believe that all the G3 holdouts would make the leap to the new 970. That would be like night and day in regard to performance. I know I'm more than happy to trade-up from my current 600 MHz iBook. I'll happily jump from G3 to 970 (I doubt the 970 qualifies for being called G5 considering that the 970 is hardly the 5th generation of the Power4). I'm looking to see a 970 in the PB. Until then, I'll live with what I've got. But it'll most certainly be the year of the laptop.

neutrino23

I doubt we'll see a 970 in the 12 inch Al-book till the next generation '970. Apple will have their plate full with the other products lines - and the factories will be running three shifts churning out 15 and 17 inch Al-books with the '970 in them.



The 15 inch with the 970 will really be an amazing 'book. Not that long ago a Cray computer the size of a minivan, costing millions of dollars and sucking kilowatts of power did not have the computing power of this upcoming Al-book which runs on a battery and you can carry it in your briefcase.



This will replace my 867 Quicksilver. It will drive the same cinema display (along with the internal display), run faster, have a larger harddrive and run almost silently and have faster FW, faster WiFi plus Bluetooth and it is portable when I need to travel.

formerlurker

I think increased heat dissipation for a 970 might be the whole reason for the 17" design, as well for the delay in the 15" redesign.

jeremiah rich

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Green

After all, I'm sure there are still people out there dedicated to their Apple IIe's. For the rest of us, let the good times roll.

Actually, you are quite right. Check this out-

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/03/0...id=107&tid=187

Heh. But seriously, I doubt Apple will lock out any G3's or any of the sort. If they want to appeal to the education market, this move would be horrible. I know my school is just coming around, and locking out the (g3) iMacs (which we have at LEAST 1000 of) would be plain stupid. Apple wants the education market, and must make OSX compatible with what they have. Secondly, they DO make money on old hardware through software sales. Naturally, they want to sell new machines, but at 129 per OS, that is not bad for something without hardware. (Well, box and cd and stuff) And if they continue to do one payed release per year, that is say 100 dollars per copy after it is all said and done per user per year. I know I am one of 'em. Would I like a new machine? Absolutely, but Apple would lose my business for awhile if they chose to make my machine obselete, as I will not be buying a new one for quite some time. Even if they did, I am sure Xposto Facto would have me covered on my Beige G3.

brian green

Good to see people getting involved with this thread. First off, neutrino23, I think you are on the right track when it comes to the 12" PB. Afterall, it couldn't handle, or Apple didn't want it to handle, the 1 Gig G4. So it would stand to current reason that the 12" would also lag behind the 15.4 and and 17 in upgrading. I think that would be just a matter of waiting for things to get smaller as things tend to do in the electronics world. As for your 867 Quicksilver, I'm happy to hear that you'll be going to the PB, and you're making the switch for the same reason I am. I need portability. I'm deployed on average of half a year. I'll not be leaving behind a Power Mac when I can have a rather close equivalent to it with me down range. Hope they come out soon so we can all get one.



Former Lurker, I think you're on to something with the redesign being for cooling issues. Then again, with the 970, there are also new MoBo's and configuration issues with that, but there's no saying that they couldn't have done both at the same time. I have to admit that I'm curious just how much free space they have to play with in the 17".



Jeremiah Rich, I fully understand that schools are using the G3's, aside from the new eMac that I've seen in schools. Many schools are using the iBook and other older Mac's. But to be honest, and perhaps you can share with us your particular situation, the school my mom works at has tons of Blueberry iMac's running 9.2.2, and there are even a few older Mac's running system 7, so in their particular case the lack of G3 or older inclusion in 10.3 would be a non-issue. The way I see it, if they were uninterested in migrating to 10.2, why would they be more inclined to seek out 10.3? They seem to be of the mentality that they are content with what they currently have. I am aware that there are schools out there that do use 10.2, and perhaps yours is among them, but the system administrator where my mom works is going to migrate to Dell regardless of how many times I tell him he's an idiot. When you can drop a couple hundred and get a PC, that's what they are going to do when we all know that schools have little to nothing to work with when it comes to a budget. I'd love to see Apple build a laptop that can handle 10.3 well and be very attractive to the education market. I'm using a 600 MHz iBook and it does okay with 10.2, but I've played with a G4 and the difference is notable, I'm rather nervous about how slow 10.3 will be on my iBook. You are correct is saying that old computers do make Apple money through software sales. Now that Apple is taking the reins and creating a lot of the cool software itself, it'll make even more. I was simply making the point that a few grand is better looking to Apple than a hundred bucks. But you're right, every dollar counts. I'd love to see an iBook that would make everyone's jaw drop in the education market, and a 970 Power Book that will make all of our jaws drop.

matsu

970's will be for PowerMacs only for at least a couple of months. How much supply can there really be for a virgin chip. Yes yes, they're sampling, testing, fabbing... but I wouldn't expect initial volume to be able to support 2 lines. THE MOST margin is in Powermacs (no miniturization/engineering penalty). Powermac sales are also the worst in Apple's line-up. The PM's feed first. Simple, because they generate the most cash per machine, and with a decent CPU, sales might actually pick up. The Xserves might also get the 970 right away, their volume is small compared to Apple's other machines, but their margins are also big, and with a nice 64 big chip, they'll have room to attract new customers.



Powerbooks. We're going to live with the titanium unill Apple is ready to let OS9 die on the portable pro segment. Its perfomance is identical to the 17" TiBook's, so they can't do an update of it unless they also have enough PPC970's to do an update of the big al book.



Apple might want to get a 970 laptop out there, but if they don't have enough chips, they can't. If they really wanted to make an impression, they might release the 15.4" al book with a G4 and move the 17" up to a 970. It's the more expensive model, and volumes are bound to be lower than they would be at 15" price points, so it may actually be possible to keep up with demand at 3299.



Remember that Moto also has the 7447 and 7457 ready to go (not the RM, which may or may not be cancelled depending on who you believe) and these are frugal and would make good laptop chips for the next 12-18 months.

brian green

Matsu, looks like I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you here on some points. The Power Mac does bring in a lot of revenue so you're right, it would be logical to bring the 970 to the PM first (then Apple can sell new users a cinema screen as well = $$). I also agree with you in regard to X-Serve. I think Apple wants to be a respected server provider and the way to make sure that happens is to provide some decent power in that area and there aren't a ton of those sold anyway, so that makes sense. I disagree with you when it comes to the laptops. I think everyone is still in the mindset of Motorola. Motorola couldn't fab chips at a decent rate if you had a gun to their heads. They don't have the ability. Fortunate for all of us Mac users we're not discussing Moto. We're discussing IBM. These folks aren't to be sneezed at, and I bet that not only can they provide a steady supply of 970's, but an amount that can handle shipment of PM's, X-Serves, and PB's all at the same time. Simultaneous. Apple can handle manufacturing them, and we all have heard that engineering is already done so that's now a non-issue. Put the things together, toss them in a box, drop them on a ship and sail them for San Fran. Not only is it possible, but when we're dealing with IBM for supply, it's probable. I think Steve can pull it off.



Now about the Moto 7447's and 7457's. I have to say I've never been more unexcited about a processor in my life. There's just not a lot of added horsepower there and a hudred or two MHz just isn't turning my eyes back to Moto. I think Steve knows that full well and knows that to generate sales, we all need the 970 to make us lust after an immediate upgrade.



You also have to remember that there are plenty on Mac users that won't upgrade anyway because they seem to be happy with what they have, or can't budget for one in their current financial status. So all we have to do is supply the people who actually want to stay current with technology and "switchers", of which we all hope there will be many. Not only do I think IBM is up to the challenge, but has already been quietly coming through.