I thought that you all would have figured it out by now. The 'automatic space garage' in 'Dead Stop' was the precursor to the matrix. It eventually crashes to Earth and the machines use its ideas to create the matrix. :P
I think it would be a great storyline..akas..StarGate, that the Borg actually orginated on Earth....& that as a result of some future scenario involving the correction of time lines and the Suliban agents..regardless of Q's meddling...& it would start to explain the Borgs facination with Bald men..ha ha Are you listening Jean Luc Picard?.
It would be a clever tie in like that Babylon 5 idea of humans being connected to the source..
An idea also picked up by Greg Bear Sc-Fi writer in Eon, Eternity, the Way & the Jarts....
Geez I must be really tanked..this is all making sense.....hic
It would be a clever tie in like that Babylon 5 idea of humans being connected to the source...
Come to think of it, it really would be cool. It'd be at the same time a really cleaver twist on an old idea. One of the reasons why I loved B5 so much was because it had a great plot where everything was interconnected. Of course, that made the show damn near impossible to pick up easily...
Anyway, I don't think the Borg are focused on *just* the Feds. In the TNG episode that I think was titled "The Neutral Zone", both the Romulan and Fed outposts got assimilated, and in First Contact, they had a few klingon Borg on the Enterprise fighting the crew (you could obviously tell by the forehead crests.)
One could perhaps make the rationalization that the reason why we see so many attacks on *just* the Federation (as opposed to the Dominion, Cardassians, Romulans, Kingons, etc.) is because the Borg see Earth as the whole "kingpin" to the Alpha quadrant, given it's importance as the seat of power of the Federation. If Earth falls, then the rest of the quadrant will easily fall too...
Well, it's just a theory. Anyone else got any ideas?
Aquafire: Even though I do act like I'm 10, if you double that number, you'll get my age (more or less)
Wasn't there some sort of Eugenics/ genetics war..in *Trek NG..
with the possibility of an offshoot having been tinkered with by " Q "..
The fact that the Borg are focussed on the Earth may be seen either from pure strategy..Ie striking at the heart of their nemesis..or suprise suprise..returning to the site of their original home..In some sort of deeply embedded genetic memory....
So the possibility of the Borg having arisen from Earth during the 20th Century would make for profound thought.
We could have story lines related to Hitler's Eugenics Arian Race / meets technology..skunk works..style...
The veritable return of Frankenstein to his maker's lair.
Just like the Jarts, who seek to bring all knowledge & cultures as "offerings" to the " unknown makers of the way ", ( who in actual fact are the very one's they are fighting )..humans...
The Borg could equally, have started off this way, but as a result of a technological flaw, go from merely " collecting imformation" like the Federation to "incorporating" it forcefully in their quest for perfection.
Note how the Borg represent all the opposite values of the Federation. ( the capacity for evil )
It would also have striking comparisons to Blade-Runner in this sense.
Well there is that tribe of genetically-engineered, super-humans from an episode of TOS and the movie Wrath of Kahn...but presumably they were all killed aboard the USS Reliant when it self-destructed (actually the result of the Genesis device being detonated).
The more I think about it, I think Enterprise is done with the Borg.
It was probably only used for the May Sweeps period, to get everyone talking about this season (gee...look at this thread - it worked!)
I think TOS did mention a Eugenics war on Earth in the past, and in its seven year run the series will go down that path to create a Borg/Khan like enemy for Archer. In addition, that is to showing the creation of the Federation.
The more I think about it, I think Enterprise is done with the Borg.
It was probably only used for the May Sweeps period, to get everyone talking about this season (gee...look at this thread - it worked!)
I think TOS did mention a Eugenics war on Earth in the past, and in its seven year run the series will go down that path to create a Borg/Khan like enemy for Archer. In addition, that is to showing the creation of the Federation.
Khan doesn't show up until Kirk's time..so that might be a hurdle....
Mind you as far as representing an over-reaching megalomaniac with hairy chest & oodles of gold medallions..he' just dandy...
*sigh* I usd to be passionate about these kinds of things but Voyager's terrible writing and acting and Enterprise's cliche "sex sells" and screwed up timeline have made me lose all but simple viewing interest in Trek.
Now, did I just miss it or has no one here mentioned that any presence of Borg in Enterprise is more than likely from the Borg Sphere that went kablooie in 2063 (First Contact)?
As for the origins of the Borg race itself, I still like the point rampancy mentioned. It's explained the same way in Shatner's novel The Return. Good book. I always thought it would have made a better sequel to Generations than First Contact.
As regards future *Trek series..I wonder if there would be any chance of seeing a diaspora of sorts, where the Federation has been dispersed after loosing a major & treacherous battle. With the Romulans betraying their peace-agreement with the Federation.
Consquently, the Earth falls to combined Kardasians & Romulans forces, with all humans on Earth & nearby colonies being sold into slavery.
The scene is then set, ( like the fall of the Roman Empire ) for the rise of a new resistance leader / s amongst the defeated humans.
As the series progresses we get to see the build up of human resistance in various sectors, amalgamating & combining forces, winning light skirmishes, but increasingly fighting for the restoration of the Federation or something similar.
Aka The American revolution model 1776....
A stint of Five or Six seasons concluding with the Earth being reclaimed for a newer version of the Federation & all subjegated humans....or is it fully free ?
Talk about pumping some new life into a series!...
I don't think it would get approved by the powers-that-be for Star Trek productions. This sounds too "warrey" whereas the focus for Star Trek always tries to stay "peacey" and humanistic exploration-ish.
Consquently, the Earth falls to combined Kardasians & Romulans forces, with all humans on Earth & nearby colonies being sold into slavery.
IIRc, this is what happened in the alternate universe --the one where the Federation was evil. DS 9 had a few episodes about this, where Sisko and others switched places with their evil counterparts.
Talk about pumping some new life into a series!...
I don't think it would get approved by the powers-that-be for Star Trek productions. This sounds too "warrey" whereas the focus for Star Trek always tries to stay "peacey" and humanistic exploration-ish.
Would this take place after Voyager time?
Yes, it would occur after Voyager's return..with Deepspace 9 being thrown back into the limelight as the initial backdrop for the Romulan betrayal.
Naturally, certain species would run for cover, some would be mercenary, others would be looking for a tidy profit..pehaps selling arms & imformation to both sides..I think we can all guess who they might be.
The split universe idea of Good Feds vs Bad Feds is childish.. Good & Evil is far more complex. *Trek writers should beef up on human pyschology .
In real life, A defeat such as that inflicted on the Federation, would initially see severe trauma set in, disbelief, then coping strategies..
The " fight or flight" instinct is hard-wired into our brains.
In the intial phases of such a new series, we could follow two streams of humans.
One focus could be on a group of ex-Federation officers etc, who are constantly on the run..fighting their way out of many traps..while looking for a temporary safe haven..
The second focus would be on a number of enslaved humans, who start resistance with the support of some sympathetic Cardasians & Romulans...
Eventually the both groups make contact...& the resistance grows, picking up Klingons, Vulcans, & other dis-enfranchised races along the way...
Thus the battle lines are re-drawn..with the possible demise of the entire Cardasian-Romulan empire..& the possibility of a greater peace & understanding occuring.
Yes, it would occur after Voyager's return..with Deepspace 9 being thrown back into the limelight as the initial backdrop for the Romulan betrayal.
Naturally, certain species would run for cover, some would be mercenary, others would be looking for a tidy profit..pehaps selling arms & imformation to both sides..I think we can all guess who they might be.
The split universe idea of Good Feds vs Bad Feds is childish.. Good & Evil is far more complex. *Trek writers should beef up on human pyschology .
In real life, A defeat such as that inflicted on the Federation, would initially see severe trauma set in, disbelief, then coping strategies..
The " fight or flight" instinct is hard-wired into our brains.
In the intial phases of such a new series, we could follow two streams of humans.
One focus could be on a group of ex-Federation officers etc, who are constantly on the run..fighting their way out of many traps..while looking for a temporary safe haven..
The second focus would be on a number of enslaved humans, who start resistance with the support of some sympathetic Cardasians & Romulans...
Eventually the both groups make contact...& the resistance grows, picking up Klingons, Vulcans, & other dis-enfranchised races along the way...
Thus the battle lines are re-drawn..with the possible demise of the entire Cardasian-Romulan empire..& the possibility of a greater peace & understanding occuring.
I could almost imagine the series being called
StarTrek " The Fall "
I think adding a messianic element, like Dune or Sparticus would spice things up. I always liked the complex plot machinations that are introduced when you mix political, emotional, economic, and religious aspects in a rich , multi-dimensional and deep story more reminiscent of actual human history.
I get a bit squirmy when *Trek introduce Baddy nemisis figures..They always fall far short of reality..The last Trek movie being a case in point..All those zillions of space dollars being used to fight one guy who had a father complex..Puh-Leeze.....
I hate it when Enterprise & Federation forces are just used as so much expendable material for the expansive ego's of one or two inbred mine schmuks no matter that they were bred from Jean Luc Picard's nostril hairs...argh...
The sooner *Trek writers get over this juvenile penchant for lame-brained characters the better..Besides which, no empire bent on revenge or payback would squander so much energy on such a crappy roll of the dice...It's not real to life..
As per a Messainic figure of some kind, it would have to be scripted very carefully..The series shouldn't revolve around one character only..that would be inviting a ratings disaster if the actor in the lead were to decide to leave or demand more money...Eg like a certain actor in X-Files.
Actually I could see the merit in introducing " The Fall " as a movie, with the Federation on it's last legs...
This would allow past cast members of Next, Voyager & DS-9 to play out roles. With some of them being bumped off, others being enslaved, & others escaping the clutches of the Cardasians.
Thus the ground work for the series would be set in play..
I really think, that many X-Trekkies would come away from such a movie suffering a sense of " Shock & Awe " that they had witnessed the demise of the Federation. And that would be a great Primer for the TV series to follow....
Eh, I think the ideas, as great as they are, have already been used throughout DS9 with the whole idea of the Bajorans coming out of slavery through some sympathetic Cardassians' aid.
I see the greatest potential for drawing up a new storyline (as monumentally hard as this really must be, honestly, for someone searching for something to attract not only Trekkies to theaters) in the Voyager series. Frankly, in that series we encountered so many new species and technologies that there are numerous avenues for drawing up a nice storyline. Me, personally, I'd go with Species 8472. That was a creepy series of episodes, the idea of something being almost invulnerable and set on destroying life in the alpha quadrant as a result of Borg interference.
They could do that up better than 'Alien' if they tried by using real beings instead of cheap-knockoff CG stuff.
Yes! In general, I hated Voyager, but this was one storyline that I thought rocked. I was pissed when those stupid Borg nano-thing torpedos turned what could have been a great, series-long menace into a 2-part episode (or however many parts it took).
Comments
It would be a clever tie in like that Babylon 5 idea of humans being connected to the source..
An idea also picked up by Greg Bear Sc-Fi writer in Eon, Eternity, the Way & the Jarts....
Geez I must be really tanked..this is all making sense.....hic
Me as a Borg..looking for Love.....
Combinded with the sheer volume of ST TV/film, there is going to be stuff in the new Star Trek series which is similar to the older ones?
Barto
PS It's always sad when a good (or sometimes good like ST) TV show goes to hell
Originally posted by aquafire
It would be a clever tie in like that Babylon 5 idea of humans being connected to the source...
Come to think of it, it really would be cool. It'd be at the same time a really cleaver twist on an old idea. One of the reasons why I loved B5 so much was because it had a great plot where everything was interconnected. Of course, that made the show damn near impossible to pick up easily...
Anyway, I don't think the Borg are focused on *just* the Feds. In the TNG episode that I think was titled "The Neutral Zone", both the Romulan and Fed outposts got assimilated, and in First Contact, they had a few klingon Borg on the Enterprise fighting the crew (you could obviously tell by the forehead crests.)
One could perhaps make the rationalization that the reason why we see so many attacks on *just* the Federation (as opposed to the Dominion, Cardassians, Romulans, Kingons, etc.) is because the Borg see Earth as the whole "kingpin" to the Alpha quadrant, given it's importance as the seat of power of the Federation. If Earth falls, then the rest of the quadrant will easily fall too...
Well, it's just a theory. Anyone else got any ideas?
Aquafire: Even though I do act like I'm 10, if you double that number, you'll get my age (more or less)
with the possibility of an offshoot having been tinkered with by " Q "..
The fact that the Borg are focussed on the Earth may be seen either from pure strategy..Ie striking at the heart of their nemesis..or suprise suprise..returning to the site of their original home..In some sort of deeply embedded genetic memory....
So the possibility of the Borg having arisen from Earth during the 20th Century would make for profound thought.
We could have story lines related to Hitler's Eugenics Arian Race / meets technology..skunk works..style...
The veritable return of Frankenstein to his maker's lair.
Just like the Jarts, who seek to bring all knowledge & cultures as "offerings" to the " unknown makers of the way ", ( who in actual fact are the very one's they are fighting )..humans...
The Borg could equally, have started off this way, but as a result of a technological flaw, go from merely " collecting imformation" like the Federation to "incorporating" it forcefully in their quest for perfection.
Note how the Borg represent all the opposite values of the Federation. ( the capacity for evil )
It would also have striking comparisons to Blade-Runner in this sense.
Me as a Borg..looking for Love.....
Lurve, man. Lurve.
It was probably only used for the May Sweeps period, to get everyone talking about this season (gee...look at this thread - it worked!)
I think TOS did mention a Eugenics war on Earth in the past, and in its seven year run the series will go down that path to create a Borg/Khan like enemy for Archer. In addition, that is to showing the creation of the Federation.
Originally posted by Frank777
The more I think about it, I think Enterprise is done with the Borg.
It was probably only used for the May Sweeps period, to get everyone talking about this season (gee...look at this thread - it worked!)
I think TOS did mention a Eugenics war on Earth in the past, and in its seven year run the series will go down that path to create a Borg/Khan like enemy for Archer. In addition, that is to showing the creation of the Federation.
Khan doesn't show up until Kirk's time..so that might be a hurdle....
Mind you as far as representing an over-reaching megalomaniac with hairy chest & oodles of gold medallions..he' just dandy...
Now, did I just miss it or has no one here mentioned that any presence of Borg in Enterprise is more than likely from the Borg Sphere that went kablooie in 2063 (First Contact)?
As for the origins of the Borg race itself, I still like the point rampancy mentioned. It's explained the same way in Shatner's novel The Return. Good book. I always thought it would have made a better sequel to Generations than First Contact.
As regards future *Trek series..I wonder if there would be any chance of seeing a diaspora of sorts, where the Federation has been dispersed after loosing a major & treacherous battle. With the Romulans betraying their peace-agreement with the Federation.
Consquently, the Earth falls to combined Kardasians & Romulans forces, with all humans on Earth & nearby colonies being sold into slavery.
The scene is then set, ( like the fall of the Roman Empire ) for the rise of a new resistance leader / s amongst the defeated humans.
As the series progresses we get to see the build up of human resistance in various sectors, amalgamating & combining forces, winning light skirmishes, but increasingly fighting for the restoration of the Federation or something similar.
Aka The American revolution model 1776....
A stint of Five or Six seasons concluding with the Earth being reclaimed for a newer version of the Federation & all subjegated humans....or is it fully free ?
I don't think it would get approved by the powers-that-be for Star Trek productions. This sounds too "warrey" whereas the focus for Star Trek always tries to stay "peacey" and humanistic exploration-ish.
Would this take place after Voyager time?
Originally posted by aquafire
Consquently, the Earth falls to combined Kardasians & Romulans forces, with all humans on Earth & nearby colonies being sold into slavery.
IIRc, this is what happened in the alternate universe --the one where the Federation was evil. DS 9 had a few episodes about this, where Sisko and others switched places with their evil counterparts.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Talk about pumping some new life into a series!...
I don't think it would get approved by the powers-that-be for Star Trek productions. This sounds too "warrey" whereas the focus for Star Trek always tries to stay "peacey" and humanistic exploration-ish.
Would this take place after Voyager time?
Yes, it would occur after Voyager's return..with Deepspace 9 being thrown back into the limelight as the initial backdrop for the Romulan betrayal.
Naturally, certain species would run for cover, some would be mercenary, others would be looking for a tidy profit..pehaps selling arms & imformation to both sides..I think we can all guess who they might be.
The split universe idea of Good Feds vs Bad Feds is childish.. Good & Evil is far more complex. *Trek writers should beef up on human pyschology .
In real life, A defeat such as that inflicted on the Federation, would initially see severe trauma set in, disbelief, then coping strategies..
The " fight or flight" instinct is hard-wired into our brains.
In the intial phases of such a new series, we could follow two streams of humans.
One focus could be on a group of ex-Federation officers etc, who are constantly on the run..fighting their way out of many traps..while looking for a temporary safe haven..
The second focus would be on a number of enslaved humans, who start resistance with the support of some sympathetic Cardasians & Romulans...
Eventually the both groups make contact...& the resistance grows, picking up Klingons, Vulcans, & other dis-enfranchised races along the way...
Thus the battle lines are re-drawn..with the possible demise of the entire Cardasian-Romulan empire..& the possibility of a greater peace & understanding occuring.
I could almost imagine the series being called
StarTrek " The Fall "
Originally posted by aquafire
Yes, it would occur after Voyager's return..with Deepspace 9 being thrown back into the limelight as the initial backdrop for the Romulan betrayal.
Naturally, certain species would run for cover, some would be mercenary, others would be looking for a tidy profit..pehaps selling arms & imformation to both sides..I think we can all guess who they might be.
The split universe idea of Good Feds vs Bad Feds is childish.. Good & Evil is far more complex. *Trek writers should beef up on human pyschology .
In real life, A defeat such as that inflicted on the Federation, would initially see severe trauma set in, disbelief, then coping strategies..
The " fight or flight" instinct is hard-wired into our brains.
In the intial phases of such a new series, we could follow two streams of humans.
One focus could be on a group of ex-Federation officers etc, who are constantly on the run..fighting their way out of many traps..while looking for a temporary safe haven..
The second focus would be on a number of enslaved humans, who start resistance with the support of some sympathetic Cardasians & Romulans...
Eventually the both groups make contact...& the resistance grows, picking up Klingons, Vulcans, & other dis-enfranchised races along the way...
Thus the battle lines are re-drawn..with the possible demise of the entire Cardasian-Romulan empire..& the possibility of a greater peace & understanding occuring.
I could almost imagine the series being called
StarTrek " The Fall "
I think adding a messianic element, like Dune or Sparticus would spice things up. I always liked the complex plot machinations that are introduced when you mix political, emotional, economic, and religious aspects in a rich , multi-dimensional and deep story more reminiscent of actual human history.
I hate it when Enterprise & Federation forces are just used as so much expendable material for the expansive ego's of one or two inbred mine schmuks no matter that they were bred from Jean Luc Picard's nostril hairs...argh...
The sooner *Trek writers get over this juvenile penchant for lame-brained characters the better..Besides which, no empire bent on revenge or payback would squander so much energy on such a crappy roll of the dice...It's not real to life..
As per a Messainic figure of some kind, it would have to be scripted very carefully..The series shouldn't revolve around one character only..that would be inviting a ratings disaster if the actor in the lead were to decide to leave or demand more money...Eg like a certain actor in X-Files.
Actually I could see the merit in introducing " The Fall " as a movie, with the Federation on it's last legs...
This would allow past cast members of Next, Voyager & DS-9 to play out roles. With some of them being bumped off, others being enslaved, & others escaping the clutches of the Cardasians.
Thus the ground work for the series would be set in play..
I really think, that many X-Trekkies would come away from such a movie suffering a sense of " Shock & Awe " that they had witnessed the demise of the Federation. And that would be a great Primer for the TV series to follow....
Who says Resistance is Futile..?
I see the greatest potential for drawing up a new storyline (as monumentally hard as this really must be, honestly, for someone searching for something to attract not only Trekkies to theaters) in the Voyager series. Frankly, in that series we encountered so many new species and technologies that there are numerous avenues for drawing up a nice storyline. Me, personally, I'd go with Species 8472. That was a creepy series of episodes, the idea of something being almost invulnerable and set on destroying life in the alpha quadrant as a result of Borg interference.
They could do that up better than 'Alien' if they tried by using real beings instead of cheap-knockoff CG stuff.
Originally posted by fred_lj
Me, personally, I'd go with Species 8472.
Yes! In general, I hated Voyager, but this was one storyline that I thought rocked. I was pissed when those stupid Borg nano-thing torpedos turned what could have been a great, series-long menace into a 2-part episode (or however many parts it took).