I think Jesus was very much like the smarter human that became what we are today. Everyone else were still deers in headlights consciously and then here comes this dude who knew it all and made no excuses...except that he was the Son of God.
Remember the shoe scene in "Life of Brian"? Like that...\
there is no need for a messiah to exist in reality for a messianic religion to take hold.
it is with all due respect a paganistic thought to think that a man could be the son of god or even a god. the reason this claim is made is due to precisely the fact that it wasnt jews that were going to christianity in droves but romans, who wanted a religion that was more potent than their own. think. christianity for all intents and purposes takes the best parts of judaism and the best parts of the roman belief inclusive of a heaven and hell. inventing a new religion really isnt that difficult especially when such backyard religions were poping up all over the place in rome (the empire) at that point.....
there is no need for a messiah to exist in reality for a messianic religion to take hold.
it is with all due respect a paganistic thought to think that a man could be the son of god or even a god. the reason this claim is made is due to precisely the fact that it wasnt jews that were going to christianity in droves but romans, who wanted a religion that was more potent than their own. think. christianity for all intents and purposes takes the best parts of judaism and the best parts of the roman belief inclusive of a heaven and hell. inventing a new religion really isnt that difficult especially when such backyard religions were poping up all over the place in rome (the empire) at that point.....
Interesting points.
Chritianity as you put it was originally considered a " Cult " within mainstream Judaism..
But with the question of ritual laws, including circumcision etc causing more friction, the decision to seperate from the Jewish community occured.
This in turn created the conditions in which Paul ( Saul ) started to persecute these early Christians of whom almost all were exclusively Jews, (and would have observed the same Jewish customs as their peers ).
As for the Romans, they were a culture heavily influenced by both the Greeks & Ptolomic Egyptian faiths as well as middle eastern Mystery cults etc. Almost every religion known to man..including Zoroastracism ( persia ), as well as Deified Emperor cults existeded in Rome.
In his time, Paul borrowed heavily from various faiths & traditions in order to attract more western ( Greek & Roman ) converts...thus establishing a religion about Jesus Christ & atonement...rather than on Christ's message of loving oneness with all our human family and with God ...hence the " Paulian " Concept of Christianity that now dominates.
And I suppose the mental patient channeling aliens in a hospital ward with a bunch of other cooks writing down all his words clears all that up, right Aqua?
And I suppose the mental patient channeling aliens in a hospital ward with a bunch of other cooks writing down all his words clears all that up, right Aqua?
Sounds similar to the way in which all visions have occured since time immemorial.....
Including those granted to Moses, Abraham, Ezekiel, Christ himself, Mahommet..
God operates in mysterious ways...& who knows BR. Despite all your slagging..you might actually find truth & faith in those pages you now so easily misrepresent..
I know of the claims & counter claims,
Like you, I found it easy to mock & disbelieve, until I actually started to read the UB without preconcieved notions. ( Especially the sections relating to Christ's ministry & life on earth ).
So without anger or ire, I welcome you to read those pages for yourself without the filter of other people's opinions...
Then if you still think its crap..thats Ok by me.
But I know what I know & I know the profound effect it has had on my soul..
The difference is I don't feel incomplete without religion. I don't need to cling to bogus creation stories. I'm not so insecure that I have to belong to a cult of like-minded believers. I have the balls to simply accept that there are certain things that are unknown and will most likely remain unknown throughout my lifetime.
Oh, and the mysterious ways bit is priceless. I love it. That's the catch-all. What? Something happened that can't easily be explained? MIND OVERLOAD MUST ASSIGN CONCRETE NOTION CANNOT HANDLE UNKNOWN! .... ERR...GOD DID IT HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS! What a crock.
Earth is the 606th planet in Satania which is in Norlatiadek which is in Nebadon which is in Orvonton which revolves around Havona, all of which revolves around the center of infinity where God dwells.
contradicts the Bible. It calls the creation week a legend and the Flood of Noah's time a lie devised by a Jewish priest during the Babylonian captivity. It states that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a myth, that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life, that Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same, and that Jesus was not tempted in the wilderness for forty days.
as is this one:
Quote:
Moreover, its advocates are not in the least reticent to claim it was inspired by "celestial beings," rather than by God Himself. This should cause a true Christian at least some skepticism about its origins. Satan the Devil and his demons are known for their lies and deceptions (John 8:44; Revelation 12:9). Paul says our fight is not "against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12). He warns that even these evil beings can seem "good" and "glorious": "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light" (II Corinthians 11:13-14).
In sum, The Urantia Book should be treated with the same spiritual disdain as the prophecies of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce and some of the other New Age and celestial spirit-inspired revelations.
Jesus a character lofted heavily from Egyptian theology. a combination of Ausar (Greek Osiris) and Horus (Greek: Heru).
The entire virgin birth story can be found on a wall in the temple of Amen in Khemet /Ta-nehisi (Greek: Egypt)
The rough draft of teh three stages of Jesus as reported in the bible can be found in any competent library. These books show Horus as a child, then as a grown "man" and as the "returning" avenger.
Similarly the concept of "going through the son to the father" concept is clearly delineated in the "Book of Coming Forth by Day" other wise known as "The Egyptian Book of the Dead."
the word "satan" is Khemetic (Egyptian) in origin.
Set means or alludes to Evil. "anb: is known to be a marker of exclamation.
The two together mean a great evil one.
In Khemetic theology, Set is the brother of Horus. Set cuts his father Ausar (Greek: Osiris) into 13 pieces. Auset (Greek Isis) is able to find 12 pieces but the last remains unfound. Horus avenges his fathers "death" by "smiting" Set. Ausar's remaining piece is his phallus which is symbolised by the "ben ben" Greek: Staelae, or Obelisc)
on an aside: Both the confederate flag and the United States Flags are based on Khemetic theology. The American flag is identical to the seat of Ausar in the underworld. The Confederate flag is a pyrimid split into four with the all seeing eye of Ra ( or Amen-RA at the top ( the center star) and the twelve stars of the Zodiac represented in 4 clusters of 3.
on an aside: Both the confederate flag and the United States Flags are based on Khemetic theology. The American flag is identical to the seat of Ausar in the underworld. The Confederate flag is a pyrimid split into four with the all seeing eye of Ra ( or Amen-RA at the top ( the center star) and the twelve stars of the Zodiac represented in 4 clusters of 3.
.....this does not bode well for Bo and Luke, let alone Daisy.
The rough draft of teh three stages of Jesus as reported in the bible can be found in any competent library. These books show Horus as a child, then as a grown "man" and as the "returning" avenger.
Horus! Ah hah! So that's what the H in Jesus H. Christ stands for!
But it's possible for intelligent people to deconstruct the myth of who he was without ignoring the wisdom of the message.
I think there is a LOT of confusion on this. We have a reference by Suetonius, that Claudius, about 52AD banished the Jews from Rome over a rumpus over someone called "Chrestus", or "Christus".
That is less than 20 years after the death of Jesus.
The first major persecution of the Christian church started only about 10 years after that. Tacitus (a little later than that) knew who He was, when and where he died, and that he was crucified under Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberias.
The wherefores and whys of Christianity, were "nailed down" fairly rapidly--too rapidly to be obscured, it is all too probable that we have the facts in hand.
I think most people believe there is a giant gap from the time of the events in question until we have reliable records---that there is an uncertain fog around the man Jesus. If anyone had tampered with Christianity, they would have had to do it within the lifetime of the eyewitnesses and then somehow silence those who knew the truth.
That would turn this into a conspiracy---replete with Dick Cheney and Halliburton as the main culprits.
Also on Christianity fitting in and being "cool" just at the right moment, both Pliny and Tacitus considered the Faith to be beneath contempt---that the believers were haters of the human race, and would dare worship some other being higher than Caesar.
Does everyone remember learning in elementary school or whenever about ancient Greek and Roman theology and their belief in polytheism?
I spent a few of my elementary school years in a catholic school, and I distinctly remember coming away from those lessons on Greek and Roman gods and goddesses knowing that ancient Greeks and Romans obviously had a limited understanding of how the world worked, and that when they believed the path they saw the sun take across the sky was Helios driving his flaming chariot, that was their way of explaining something they did not fully understand.
I'm pretty sure that belief in ancient Greek and Roman deities has fallen out of fashion by now, and I believe it has something to do with people being smarter now and knowing more about the universe. Hinduism has its multiple deities too, and I confess I haven't figured out how to reconcile that with this theory of mine, but here it is anyway: If we're generally smart enough now not to need to believe in a sun god, a god of the sea, a goddess of the hunt, a need to sacrifice virgins/animals to please these gods, etc., why are people still so persistent in believing "The Bible is the absolute truth and I don't need to think any harder than this"?
Show me more than the one singular source that claims anything supernatural. We have books written today that claim that we never landed on the moon. These books have more data to back them up than the Bible had that Jesus was the Son of God in more than a metaphorical sense. We still take them with more than a grain of salt. Why should we believe the Bible was written as fact?
I can't go there...not something I want to get into. I think it's odd that people try to brow-beat each other into each other's beliefs. I think we're all grown ups and know what we believe in.
I think the basic point is that the Roman administrations as well as Tacitus, Pliny and a few other historians (they're secular so we know they wouldn't lie) weren't asking "well, did he really exists?" or "what is this Jesus guys claim to be?" They were 100% certain of who He was as well as what the early Christians, meant to Rome.
I can't go there...not something I want to get into. I think it's odd that people try to brow-beat each other into each other's beliefs. I think we're all grown ups and know what we believe in.
I think the basic point is that the Roman administrations as well as Tacitus, Pliny and a few other historians (they're secular so we know they wouldn't lie) weren't asking "well, did he really exists?" or "what is this Jesus guys claim to be?" They were 100% certain of who He was as well as what the early Christians, meant to Rome.
All that shows is that he probably existed. It proves nothing supernatural.
See how that goes over? Come on, FCIB, I wasn't posting specifically for your entertainment or to try to get you to change your mind. You chimed in with "Nice try" immediately dismissing my argument and proving yourself to be pretty closed-minded.
Organized religion in general doesn't give man enough credit for being able to think for himself. What kind of rational thought went in to your decision to accept the BIble whole hog? It's faith, right? Not fact.
See how that goes over? Come on, FCIB, I wasn't posting specifically for your entertainment or to try to get you to change your mind. You chimed in with "Nice try" immediately dismissing my argument and proving yourself to be pretty closed-minded.
Organized religion in general doesn't give man enough credit for being able to think for himself. What kind of rational thought went in to your decision to accept the BIble whole hog? It's faith, right? Not fact.
I did not care for your notion. It is ignorant to suggest that one is less likely to think for ones self just because one takes the Bible as the word of God.
In the begining it was faith. Now after my having a relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit It is a fact in my life.
I never read the Bible start to finish and thought to myself wow I buy that in a whole manner. The Bible has a way of revealing itself bit by bit in God's timing.
I appreciate your concern but I need to correct you on a couple of points.
Firstly, UB is not a " New Age Cult "
It existed way before New-age-ism was even thought of.
You will find nor mention of UFO's crop circles, weggee boards etc.. It has no room for animism or any other form of anthropomorhogized animal soul belief. Ie No whales or dogs etc can ever understand or have spiritual union with God.
Second as regards the " celestial transmission " the mystery of the way the UB came about is still that. No mediums were ever used. These celestial beings..don't you believe in Angels ? fellowship..made it very clear that they were acting on the behalf of a commission set out by God to foward answers to questions asked by Dr William Sadler's inner group. They in themselves did not author or create the answers...
As regards Satan...more properly Lucifer..UB makes it clear that he was a fallen angel and his defeat at the hands of Christ has already occured... Lucifer took it upon himself to thwart God's plan for the earth ( Urantia )by seeking self agrandisemant & encouraging humans to worship him instead of God..
These are hardly the sorts of words you would here from such an arch deciever..
But then...have you ever asked yourself how it is that Christ through-out his ministry focussed constantly on the importance of love and gave the apostles a new commandment to "love one another as God loves you"
Instead of focussing on the old wrathful model of God, Christ's entire ministry was about this one cardinal point.
Namely : Your Sonship through faith to God the Father.
" We are all the children of God "
There was never any need to have a blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world. Christ had already defeated Lucifer..besides which...What sort of God ( creator of the universe ) would require the sacrifice of his son or any child in order to quench his celestial wrath?
You would not demand such a sacrifice of your child any more than God would. This was very much a part of the OT way of understanding God's relationship to us..
Remember Issac...?
In his time, Paul made many theological compromises on his way to forming the kernal of modern christianity. He perfectly understood that the old jewish customs & beliefs could not be thrown out completely without loosing the entire audience..
So he constructed a new religion based on the blood sacrifice of Christ in atonement of God's ( old tstament ) wrath...with Christ as the central figure in this drama.
In short he created a religion based on the person of Christ & not on the Central message of Christ.
Christ never preached a ministry where he asked his apostles to kneel down before him & to worship him before God... Christ again and again said " These things I do through the Father who is also your father, so that you may know his abiding love for you.." & again in his referring to himself as being the reed..and on.. Christ constantly focussed on God's specail plan and purpose for all those who chose to take up his gift of free-willed union.
The symbolism of the Cross, was the final living proof that Christ used to show us the triumphant power of God's Love to trancend even death itself.
Christ did not raise himself..He was raised by God his Father in accordance with his son's wishes.
Remember Christ's words " No greater love has a man than
to lay down his life for that of his brother..."
This referred to the acting principle behind Love and union with God who is our father.
Love in free-will union with God is the ultimate faith gift & it is a gift poured out abundantly to all who would receive it.
This was the measure of living love that continues through Christ's indwelling spirit in you as in me. And this, is the true corner stone of the UB writings.
I know your willing to learn things..so if you wish. the UB book is there for you to read..especially the last third or so of the book that details Christ's life on earth..
Comments
Originally posted by Artman @_@
I think Jesus was very much like the smarter human that became what we are today. Everyone else were still deers in headlights consciously and then here comes this dude who knew it all and made no excuses...except that he was the Son of God.
Remember the shoe scene in "Life of Brian"? Like that...
"You are all individuals"
"Yes, we are all individuals"
The birth of calvinism
"Not me"
The birth of the socialist intellectual.
it is with all due respect a paganistic thought to think that a man could be the son of god or even a god. the reason this claim is made is due to precisely the fact that it wasnt jews that were going to christianity in droves but romans, who wanted a religion that was more potent than their own. think. christianity for all intents and purposes takes the best parts of judaism and the best parts of the roman belief inclusive of a heaven and hell. inventing a new religion really isnt that difficult especially when such backyard religions were poping up all over the place in rome (the empire) at that point.....
Originally posted by billybobsky
there is no need for a messiah to exist in reality for a messianic religion to take hold.
it is with all due respect a paganistic thought to think that a man could be the son of god or even a god. the reason this claim is made is due to precisely the fact that it wasnt jews that were going to christianity in droves but romans, who wanted a religion that was more potent than their own. think. christianity for all intents and purposes takes the best parts of judaism and the best parts of the roman belief inclusive of a heaven and hell. inventing a new religion really isnt that difficult especially when such backyard religions were poping up all over the place in rome (the empire) at that point.....
Interesting points.
Chritianity as you put it was originally considered a " Cult " within mainstream Judaism..
But with the question of ritual laws, including circumcision etc causing more friction, the decision to seperate from the Jewish community occured.
This in turn created the conditions in which Paul ( Saul ) started to persecute these early Christians of whom almost all were exclusively Jews, (and would have observed the same Jewish customs as their peers ).
As for the Romans, they were a culture heavily influenced by both the Greeks & Ptolomic Egyptian faiths as well as middle eastern Mystery cults etc. Almost every religion known to man..including Zoroastracism ( persia ), as well as Deified Emperor cults existeded in Rome.
In his time, Paul borrowed heavily from various faiths & traditions in order to attract more western ( Greek & Roman ) converts...thus establishing a religion about Jesus Christ & atonement...rather than on Christ's message of loving oneness with all our human family and with God ...hence the " Paulian " Concept of Christianity that now dominates.
Originally posted by BR
And I suppose the mental patient channeling aliens in a hospital ward with a bunch of other cooks writing down all his words clears all that up, right Aqua?
Sounds similar to the way in which all visions have occured since time immemorial.....
Including those granted to Moses, Abraham, Ezekiel, Christ himself, Mahommet..
God operates in mysterious ways...& who knows BR. Despite all your slagging..you might actually find truth & faith in those pages you now so easily misrepresent..
I know of the claims & counter claims,
Like you, I found it easy to mock & disbelieve, until I actually started to read the UB without preconcieved notions. ( Especially the sections relating to Christ's ministry & life on earth ).
So without anger or ire, I welcome you to read those pages for yourself without the filter of other people's opinions...
Then if you still think its crap..thats Ok by me.
But I know what I know & I know the profound effect it has had on my soul..
Oh, and the mysterious ways bit is priceless. I love it. That's the catch-all. What? Something happened that can't easily be explained? MIND OVERLOAD MUST ASSIGN CONCRETE NOTION CANNOT HANDLE UNKNOWN! .... ERR...GOD DID IT HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS! What a crock.
Originally posted by aquafire
Then if you still think its crap..thats Ok by me.
But I know what I know & I know the profound effect it has had on my soul..
aquafire I think you are in over your head with a true case of deception. Urantia is new age deception.
The following are links I invite you to consider:
Link 01
This quote is telling:
Earth is the 606th planet in Satania which is in Norlatiadek which is in Nebadon which is in Orvonton which revolves around Havona, all of which revolves around the center of infinity where God dwells.
"Satania" does this sit well with you?
From this link:
Link 02
This quote is telling:
contradicts the Bible. It calls the creation week a legend and the Flood of Noah's time a lie devised by a Jewish priest during the Babylonian captivity. It states that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a myth, that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life, that Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same, and that Jesus was not tempted in the wilderness for forty days.
as is this one:
Moreover, its advocates are not in the least reticent to claim it was inspired by "celestial beings," rather than by God Himself. This should cause a true Christian at least some skepticism about its origins. Satan the Devil and his demons are known for their lies and deceptions (John 8:44; Revelation 12:9). Paul says our fight is not "against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12). He warns that even these evil beings can seem "good" and "glorious": "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light" (II Corinthians 11:13-14).
In sum, The Urantia Book should be treated with the same spiritual disdain as the prophecies of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce and some of the other New Age and celestial spirit-inspired revelations.
taken from this link:
Link 03
I would hope you come to realize that the deception of Urantia is just that. New age deception.
With all due love and respect,
Fellowship
which is in Orvonton
Hey that's a good neighborhood . . . good schools I hear
padumdum chtsh........
The entire virgin birth story can be found on a wall in the temple of Amen in Khemet /Ta-nehisi (Greek: Egypt)
The rough draft of teh three stages of Jesus as reported in the bible can be found in any competent library. These books show Horus as a child, then as a grown "man" and as the "returning" avenger.
Similarly the concept of "going through the son to the father" concept is clearly delineated in the "Book of Coming Forth by Day" other wise known as "The Egyptian Book of the Dead."
Set means or alludes to Evil. "anb: is known to be a marker of exclamation.
The two together mean a great evil one.
In Khemetic theology, Set is the brother of Horus. Set cuts his father Ausar (Greek: Osiris) into 13 pieces. Auset (Greek Isis) is able to find 12 pieces but the last remains unfound. Horus avenges his fathers "death" by "smiting" Set. Ausar's remaining piece is his phallus which is symbolised by the "ben ben" Greek: Staelae, or Obelisc)
on an aside: Both the confederate flag and the United States Flags are based on Khemetic theology. The American flag is identical to the seat of Ausar in the underworld. The Confederate flag is a pyrimid split into four with the all seeing eye of Ra ( or Amen-RA at the top ( the center star) and the twelve stars of the Zodiac represented in 4 clusters of 3.
Originally posted by Sondjata
on an aside: Both the confederate flag and the United States Flags are based on Khemetic theology. The American flag is identical to the seat of Ausar in the underworld. The Confederate flag is a pyrimid split into four with the all seeing eye of Ra ( or Amen-RA at the top ( the center star) and the twelve stars of the Zodiac represented in 4 clusters of 3.
.....this does not bode well for Bo and Luke, let alone Daisy.
Originally posted by Sondjata
The rough draft of teh three stages of Jesus as reported in the bible can be found in any competent library. These books show Horus as a child, then as a grown "man" and as the "returning" avenger.
Horus! Ah hah! So that's what the H in Jesus H. Christ stands for!
Originally posted by tonton
But it's possible for intelligent people to deconstruct the myth of who he was without ignoring the wisdom of the message.
I think there is a LOT of confusion on this. We have a reference by Suetonius, that Claudius, about 52AD banished the Jews from Rome over a rumpus over someone called "Chrestus", or "Christus".
That is less than 20 years after the death of Jesus.
The first major persecution of the Christian church started only about 10 years after that. Tacitus (a little later than that) knew who He was, when and where he died, and that he was crucified under Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberias.
The wherefores and whys of Christianity, were "nailed down" fairly rapidly--too rapidly to be obscured, it is all too probable that we have the facts in hand.
I think most people believe there is a giant gap from the time of the events in question until we have reliable records---that there is an uncertain fog around the man Jesus. If anyone had tampered with Christianity, they would have had to do it within the lifetime of the eyewitnesses and then somehow silence those who knew the truth.
That would turn this into a conspiracy---replete with Dick Cheney and Halliburton as the main culprits.
Also on Christianity fitting in and being "cool" just at the right moment, both Pliny and Tacitus considered the Faith to be beneath contempt---that the believers were haters of the human race, and would dare worship some other being higher than Caesar.
I spent a few of my elementary school years in a catholic school, and I distinctly remember coming away from those lessons on Greek and Roman gods and goddesses knowing that ancient Greeks and Romans obviously had a limited understanding of how the world worked, and that when they believed the path they saw the sun take across the sky was Helios driving his flaming chariot, that was their way of explaining something they did not fully understand.
I'm pretty sure that belief in ancient Greek and Roman deities has fallen out of fashion by now, and I believe it has something to do with people being smarter now and knowing more about the universe. Hinduism has its multiple deities too, and I confess I haven't figured out how to reconcile that with this theory of mine, but here it is anyway: If we're generally smart enough now not to need to believe in a sun god, a god of the sea, a goddess of the hunt, a need to sacrifice virgins/animals to please these gods, etc., why are people still so persistent in believing "The Bible is the absolute truth and I don't need to think any harder than this"?
Originally posted by mlnjr
why are people still so persistent in believing "The Bible is the absolute truth and I don't need to think any harder than this"?
Since when can a person not think and find the Bible to be the word of God?
Nice try..
Fellowship
Originally posted by tonton
Show me more than the one singular source that claims anything supernatural. We have books written today that claim that we never landed on the moon. These books have more data to back them up than the Bible had that Jesus was the Son of God in more than a metaphorical sense. We still take them with more than a grain of salt. Why should we believe the Bible was written as fact?
I can't go there...not something I want to get into. I think it's odd that people try to brow-beat each other into each other's beliefs. I think we're all grown ups and know what we believe in.
I think the basic point is that the Roman administrations as well as Tacitus, Pliny and a few other historians (they're secular so we know they wouldn't lie) weren't asking "well, did he really exists?" or "what is this Jesus guys claim to be?" They were 100% certain of who He was as well as what the early Christians, meant to Rome.
Originally posted by ena
I can't go there...not something I want to get into. I think it's odd that people try to brow-beat each other into each other's beliefs. I think we're all grown ups and know what we believe in.
I think the basic point is that the Roman administrations as well as Tacitus, Pliny and a few other historians (they're secular so we know they wouldn't lie) weren't asking "well, did he really exists?" or "what is this Jesus guys claim to be?" They were 100% certain of who He was as well as what the early Christians, meant to Rome.
All that shows is that he probably existed. It proves nothing supernatural.
Nice try, FCIB.
See how that goes over? Come on, FCIB, I wasn't posting specifically for your entertainment or to try to get you to change your mind. You chimed in with "Nice try" immediately dismissing my argument and proving yourself to be pretty closed-minded.
Organized religion in general doesn't give man enough credit for being able to think for himself. What kind of rational thought went in to your decision to accept the BIble whole hog? It's faith, right? Not fact.
Originally posted by mlnjr
"Anything FCIB says"
Nice try, FCIB.
See how that goes over? Come on, FCIB, I wasn't posting specifically for your entertainment or to try to get you to change your mind. You chimed in with "Nice try" immediately dismissing my argument and proving yourself to be pretty closed-minded.
Organized religion in general doesn't give man enough credit for being able to think for himself. What kind of rational thought went in to your decision to accept the BIble whole hog? It's faith, right? Not fact.
I did not care for your notion. It is ignorant to suggest that one is less likely to think for ones self just because one takes the Bible as the word of God.
In the begining it was faith. Now after my having a relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit It is a fact in my life.
I never read the Bible start to finish and thought to myself wow I buy that in a whole manner. The Bible has a way of revealing itself bit by bit in God's timing.
Fellowship
I appreciate your concern but I need to correct you on a couple of points.
Firstly, UB is not a " New Age Cult "
It existed way before New-age-ism was even thought of.
You will find nor mention of UFO's crop circles, weggee boards etc.. It has no room for animism or any other form of anthropomorhogized animal soul belief. Ie No whales or dogs etc can ever understand or have spiritual union with God.
Second as regards the " celestial transmission " the mystery of the way the UB came about is still that. No mediums were ever used. These celestial beings..don't you believe in Angels ? fellowship..made it very clear that they were acting on the behalf of a commission set out by God to foward answers to questions asked by Dr William Sadler's inner group. They in themselves did not author or create the answers...
As regards Satan...more properly Lucifer..UB makes it clear that he was a fallen angel and his defeat at the hands of Christ has already occured... Lucifer took it upon himself to thwart God's plan for the earth ( Urantia )by seeking self agrandisemant & encouraging humans to worship him instead of God..
These are hardly the sorts of words you would here from such an arch deciever..
But then...have you ever asked yourself how it is that Christ through-out his ministry focussed constantly on the importance of love and gave the apostles a new commandment to "love one another as God loves you"
Instead of focussing on the old wrathful model of God, Christ's entire ministry was about this one cardinal point.
Namely : Your Sonship through faith to God the Father.
" We are all the children of God "
There was never any need to have a blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world. Christ had already defeated Lucifer..besides which...What sort of God ( creator of the universe ) would require the sacrifice of his son or any child in order to quench his celestial wrath?
You would not demand such a sacrifice of your child any more than God would. This was very much a part of the OT way of understanding God's relationship to us..
Remember Issac...?
In his time, Paul made many theological compromises on his way to forming the kernal of modern christianity. He perfectly understood that the old jewish customs & beliefs could not be thrown out completely without loosing the entire audience..
So he constructed a new religion based on the blood sacrifice of Christ in atonement of God's ( old tstament ) wrath...with Christ as the central figure in this drama.
In short he created a religion based on the person of Christ & not on the Central message of Christ.
Christ never preached a ministry where he asked his apostles to kneel down before him & to worship him before God... Christ again and again said " These things I do through the Father who is also your father, so that you may know his abiding love for you.." & again in his referring to himself as being the reed..and on.. Christ constantly focussed on God's specail plan and purpose for all those who chose to take up his gift of free-willed union.
The symbolism of the Cross, was the final living proof that Christ used to show us the triumphant power of God's Love to trancend even death itself.
Christ did not raise himself..He was raised by God his Father in accordance with his son's wishes.
Remember Christ's words " No greater love has a man than
to lay down his life for that of his brother..."
This referred to the acting principle behind Love and union with God who is our father.
Love in free-will union with God is the ultimate faith gift & it is a gift poured out abundantly to all who would receive it.
This was the measure of living love that continues through Christ's indwelling spirit in you as in me. And this, is the true corner stone of the UB writings.
I know your willing to learn things..so if you wish. the UB book is there for you to read..especially the last third or so of the book that details Christ's life on earth..
Peace & love