This is just one aspect of that chain of being, and the pharaoh is just one aspect of how that type of metaphysics expresses itself for that culture. There is no break in their chain of being.
To put it in very simple terms, man was able to become one with the gods by works of righteousness.
Ok. That's all well and good but what exactly does that have to do with any of the scenes I linked to.
Also, FCiB she doesn't have a firm grasp of the metaphysics involved---kinda spinning her wheels there. Christian metaphysics is so basic to Western thought that there is a tendency to take a cursory reading of Ancient cultures and their religions and assume that the metaphysics are the same.
exactly what and who are you refering too. ANd who died and made you the authority on Egyptian mysteries?
exactly what and who are you refering too. ANd who died and made you the authority on Egyptian mysteries?
The community of being is pretty blatent in the Papyrus of Ani (The book of the Dead.)
Quote:
The Osiris,_ the scribe Ani,_ whose word is truth,_ saith: _ I flew up out of primeval matter.__ I came into being like the god Khepera. __I germinated like the plants. __I am concealed like the tortoise [in his shell]. __I am the seed of every god. __I am Yesterday of the Four [Quarters of the Earth,_ and] the Seven Uraei, _who came into being in the Eastern land. __[I am] the Great One (Horus) who illumineth the Hememet spirits with the light of his body.__ [I am] that god in respect of Set. __[I am] Thoth who [stood] between them (Horus and Set) as the judge on behalf of the Governor of Sekhem and the Souls of Anu.__ [He was like] a stream between them. __I have come.__ I rise up on my throne.__ I am endowed with Khu.__ I am mighty. __I am endowed with godhood among the gods. __I am Khensu, _[the lord] of every kind of strength.
....this pride of achievement can be shared by men.
Quote:
...I have not commited sin.
...I have not stolen.
...I have not slain men and women.
...I have notcommitted adultery, I have not lain with men.
and on and on and on....
then, having been declared innocent, the deceased becomes divine. After death, man "manifested a continuity either towards chaos and destruction or deity and resurrection."
bla bla bla, it's all there.....you can take it from here.
...Your mistake, as is usual for Christians is to believe that the Bible is an accurate account of Humanities origins and development and that it's stories are in fact accurate accounts of history. It is not. This fundamental flaw in your reasoning.
It is the presupposition of my reasoning, but not a "flaw."
Yes, I believe that Bible. And I am consistent in that belief. And I don't have troubles distinguishing between literary passages and literal ones (if so, I had better change careers).
Your "christians are stupid" attitude makes this discussion very difficult to continue.
The community of being is pretty blatent in the Papyrus of Ani (The book of the Dead.)
....this pride of achievement can be shared by men.
and on and on and on....
then, having been declared innocent, the deceased becomes divine. After death, man "manifested a continuity either towards chaos and destruction or deity and resurrection."
bla bla bla, it's all there.....you can take it from here.
Now if you will excuse me, I must be on my way.
*slips on the One Ring and vanishes from thread*
I still don't get how this proves or disproves the existance of Jesus or the Jesus myth or that such a myth has it's origins in the Mystery system of Egypt.
I mean you look at the Negative confessions and I see the basis of the (more than) ten commandments.
You see the deceased becomes divine and I see Revelations.
Again, how does your post specifically deal with the jesus Myth.
It is the presupposition of my reasoning, but not a "flaw."
Yes, I believe that Bible. And I am consistent in that belief. And I don't have troubles distinguishing between literary passages and literal ones (if so, I had better change careers).
Your "christians are stupid" attitude makes this discussion very difficult to continue.
Sorry if I come across that way, but in all honesty most Christians have no clue outside of what they are told by their leadership. Very, Very few know anything outside of the confines of a KJV. And some in leadership positions know more than they are williing to tell their congregants for obvious reasons. As for this discussion. I position is that the known Data on Egypt along with actual Biblical scriptures proves that much of Christian and Judaic theology is rooted in Egypt. And this goes far beyond what I've posted. I mean when you got the pope wearing the crown on Upper Egypt. You got to ask some serious questions.
AS for your ability to distinguish between the literal and literary, I would disagree as you have a vested interest in seeing passages in a specific way. In short you have a conflict of interest. I don't have such a conflict as I don't ascribe to any Christian, judaic or Islamic religion. Nor do I practice the Egyptan religion. So my motivation is strictly one of seeking out logical and historical truth. As you said, since your career is dependent on a certain belief in the verity of what your Bible says, your objectivity in this matter is clearly questionable.
Sorry if I come across that way, but in all honesty most Christians have no clue outside of what they are told by their leadership. Very, Very few know anything outside of the confines of a KJV. And some in leadership positions know more than they are williing to tell their congregants for obvious reasons. As for this discussion. I position is that the known Data on Egypt along with actual Biblical scriptures proves that much of Christian and Judaic theology is rooted in Egypt. And this goes far beyond what I've posted. I mean when you got the pope wearing the crown on Upper Egypt. You got to ask some serious questions.
AS for your ability to distinguish between the literal and literary, I would disagree as you have a vested interest in seeing passages in a specific way. In short you have a conflict of interest. I don't have such a conflict as I don't ascribe to any Christian, judaic or Islamic religion. Nor do I practice the Egyptan religion. So my motivation is strictly one of seeking out logical and historical truth. As you said, since your career is dependent on a certain belief in the verity of what your Bible says, your objectivity in this matter is clearly questionable.
Let me clarify: my career is based on my ability to use the English language and to distinguish fact from metaphor, normative from positive thinking: I copy edit books, including English, history, and Theology.
Although the prophecies are my weakness, I KNOW what the Old Testament says, having read it many times (and not in the KJV, which although beautiful, does not lend itself to easy reading). I am, however, bad at remembering WHERE I read a particular passage and am addicted to my concordance.
I don?t want to run into a long theological discussion of Types and Real, and cannot keep this simple without oversimplifying. And I am being overly snippish. I am not usually an argumentative person and apologize if I have been overly rude.
Let me clarify: my career is based on my ability to use the English language and to distinguish fact from metaphor, normative from positive thinking: I copy edit books, including English, history, and Theology. .
Apologies for making an assumption about what your career is. So I'll need to withdraw a significant portion of my earlier post.
For the record I grew up as a Seventh Day Adventist and left when I was about 22. I'm extremely familiar with scripture as well as the Metu Neter (Egyptian Holy texts). But my commentary one metaphor and fact is not really due to how well one can use the English language, it is more based on cultural bias. If one believes a particular thing, then one is more likely to fit evidence into that mode of thiinking or dismiss it as wrong. So prior to understanding Egyptian symbolism, I thought much like Fellowship. Now having waded through documentation from authors some of whome have vested interests in the subject and others who would be rolling in their graves if they knew how thier documentation was being used, I can see all manner of influence on the Christianity, Judaism and Islam. For example, the whole Hebrews in the desert with Moses episode is full of Egyptian symbolism. Same with Acts, Revelations, and most of the new testament Gospels.
I stay away from recent English translations of the Bible because they stray to far from the original texts. And even with the KJV there are massive problems. For example when I was At Cornell, a Had a Jewish friend of mine read me Genesis from his Torah. I was shocked at how much the his text differed from the KJV. The other major reason for using the KJV is because much of the work done on Egyptian Antiquities is set in the same language as that of the KJV. So when one sees the term say "oracle" it is highly probable that other authors of translations were using similar thought patterns in their translations. Since today no one really uses the term "oracle" except Larry Ellison and characters in The Matrix ( joke). It is more likely that one would use the term in a more "creative" way than an actual most appropriate translatable term.
So for example, on the Annunciation picture. I usually do not explain the picture. I let the person I'm showing it to figure it out for themselves. usually they get the basic story. Everyone tells it slightly different but the basic story stays the same ( no one knows the names). This is clearly an example of how Judaism and Christianity could come up with a story that matches another known story which they were exposed to but translated into thier own particular culture.
Comments
Originally posted by ena
This is just one aspect of that chain of being, and the pharaoh is just one aspect of how that type of metaphysics expresses itself for that culture. There is no break in their chain of being.
To put it in very simple terms, man was able to become one with the gods by works of righteousness.
Ok. That's all well and good but what exactly does that have to do with any of the scenes I linked to.
Originally posted by ena
Also, FCiB she doesn't have a firm grasp of the metaphysics involved---kinda spinning her wheels there. Christian metaphysics is so basic to Western thought that there is a tendency to take a cursory reading of Ancient cultures and their religions and assume that the metaphysics are the same.
exactly what and who are you refering too. ANd who died and made you the authority on Egyptian mysteries?
Originally posted by Sondjata
Ok. That's all well and good but what exactly does that have to do with any of the scenes I linked to.
I give up.
Originally posted by Sondjata
exactly what and who are you refering too. ANd who died and made you the authority on Egyptian mysteries?
The community of being is pretty blatent in the Papyrus of Ani (The book of the Dead.)
The Osiris,_ the scribe Ani,_ whose word is truth,_ saith: _ I flew up out of primeval matter.__ I came into being like the god Khepera. __I germinated like the plants. __I am concealed like the tortoise [in his shell]. __I am the seed of every god. __I am Yesterday of the Four [Quarters of the Earth,_ and] the Seven Uraei, _who came into being in the Eastern land. __[I am] the Great One (Horus) who illumineth the Hememet spirits with the light of his body.__ [I am] that god in respect of Set. __[I am] Thoth who [stood] between them (Horus and Set) as the judge on behalf of the Governor of Sekhem and the Souls of Anu.__ [He was like] a stream between them. __I have come.__ I rise up on my throne.__ I am endowed with Khu.__ I am mighty. __I am endowed with godhood among the gods. __I am Khensu, _[the lord] of every kind of strength.
....this pride of achievement can be shared by men.
...I have not commited sin.
...I have not stolen.
...I have not slain men and women.
...I have notcommitted adultery, I have not lain with men.
and on and on and on....
then, having been declared innocent, the deceased becomes divine. After death, man "manifested a continuity either towards chaos and destruction or deity and resurrection."
bla bla bla, it's all there.....you can take it from here.
Now if you will excuse me, I must be on my way.
*slips on the One Ring and vanishes from thread*
Originally posted by Sondjata
...Your mistake, as is usual for Christians is to believe that the Bible is an accurate account of Humanities origins and development and that it's stories are in fact accurate accounts of history. It is not. This fundamental flaw in your reasoning.
It is the presupposition of my reasoning, but not a "flaw."
Yes, I believe that Bible. And I am consistent in that belief. And I don't have troubles distinguishing between literary passages and literal ones (if so, I had better change careers).
Your "christians are stupid" attitude makes this discussion very difficult to continue.
Originally posted by ena
The community of being is pretty blatent in the Papyrus of Ani (The book of the Dead.)
....this pride of achievement can be shared by men.
and on and on and on....
then, having been declared innocent, the deceased becomes divine. After death, man "manifested a continuity either towards chaos and destruction or deity and resurrection."
bla bla bla, it's all there.....you can take it from here.
Now if you will excuse me, I must be on my way.
*slips on the One Ring and vanishes from thread*
I still don't get how this proves or disproves the existance of Jesus or the Jesus myth or that such a myth has it's origins in the Mystery system of Egypt.
I mean you look at the Negative confessions and I see the basis of the (more than) ten commandments.
You see the deceased becomes divine and I see Revelations.
Again, how does your post specifically deal with the jesus Myth.
Originally posted by Fangorn
It is the presupposition of my reasoning, but not a "flaw."
Yes, I believe that Bible. And I am consistent in that belief. And I don't have troubles distinguishing between literary passages and literal ones (if so, I had better change careers).
Your "christians are stupid" attitude makes this discussion very difficult to continue.
Sorry if I come across that way, but in all honesty most Christians have no clue outside of what they are told by their leadership. Very, Very few know anything outside of the confines of a KJV. And some in leadership positions know more than they are williing to tell their congregants for obvious reasons. As for this discussion. I position is that the known Data on Egypt along with actual Biblical scriptures proves that much of Christian and Judaic theology is rooted in Egypt. And this goes far beyond what I've posted. I mean when you got the pope wearing the crown on Upper Egypt. You got to ask some serious questions.
AS for your ability to distinguish between the literal and literary, I would disagree as you have a vested interest in seeing passages in a specific way. In short you have a conflict of interest. I don't have such a conflict as I don't ascribe to any Christian, judaic or Islamic religion. Nor do I practice the Egyptan religion. So my motivation is strictly one of seeking out logical and historical truth. As you said, since your career is dependent on a certain belief in the verity of what your Bible says, your objectivity in this matter is clearly questionable.
Originally posted by shetline
Oddly enough, I'm reminded of an old thread that had been running for a while here about who's favorite superhero could beat up whom.
Originally posted by Sondjata
Sorry if I come across that way, but in all honesty most Christians have no clue outside of what they are told by their leadership. Very, Very few know anything outside of the confines of a KJV. And some in leadership positions know more than they are williing to tell their congregants for obvious reasons. As for this discussion. I position is that the known Data on Egypt along with actual Biblical scriptures proves that much of Christian and Judaic theology is rooted in Egypt. And this goes far beyond what I've posted. I mean when you got the pope wearing the crown on Upper Egypt. You got to ask some serious questions.
AS for your ability to distinguish between the literal and literary, I would disagree as you have a vested interest in seeing passages in a specific way. In short you have a conflict of interest. I don't have such a conflict as I don't ascribe to any Christian, judaic or Islamic religion. Nor do I practice the Egyptan religion. So my motivation is strictly one of seeking out logical and historical truth. As you said, since your career is dependent on a certain belief in the verity of what your Bible says, your objectivity in this matter is clearly questionable.
Let me clarify: my career is based on my ability to use the English language and to distinguish fact from metaphor, normative from positive thinking: I copy edit books, including English, history, and Theology.
Although the prophecies are my weakness, I KNOW what the Old Testament says, having read it many times (and not in the KJV, which although beautiful, does not lend itself to easy reading). I am, however, bad at remembering WHERE I read a particular passage and am addicted to my concordance.
I don?t want to run into a long theological discussion of Types and Real, and cannot keep this simple without oversimplifying. And I am being overly snippish. I am not usually an argumentative person and apologize if I have been overly rude.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Let me clarify: my career is based on my ability to use the English language and to distinguish fact from metaphor, normative from positive thinking: I copy edit books, including English, history, and Theology. .
Apologies for making an assumption about what your career is. So I'll need to withdraw a significant portion of my earlier post.
For the record I grew up as a Seventh Day Adventist and left when I was about 22. I'm extremely familiar with scripture as well as the Metu Neter (Egyptian Holy texts). But my commentary one metaphor and fact is not really due to how well one can use the English language, it is more based on cultural bias. If one believes a particular thing, then one is more likely to fit evidence into that mode of thiinking or dismiss it as wrong. So prior to understanding Egyptian symbolism, I thought much like Fellowship. Now having waded through documentation from authors some of whome have vested interests in the subject and others who would be rolling in their graves if they knew how thier documentation was being used, I can see all manner of influence on the Christianity, Judaism and Islam. For example, the whole Hebrews in the desert with Moses episode is full of Egyptian symbolism. Same with Acts, Revelations, and most of the new testament Gospels.
I stay away from recent English translations of the Bible because they stray to far from the original texts. And even with the KJV there are massive problems. For example when I was At Cornell, a Had a Jewish friend of mine read me Genesis from his Torah. I was shocked at how much the his text differed from the KJV. The other major reason for using the KJV is because much of the work done on Egyptian Antiquities is set in the same language as that of the KJV. So when one sees the term say "oracle" it is highly probable that other authors of translations were using similar thought patterns in their translations. Since today no one really uses the term "oracle" except Larry Ellison and characters in The Matrix ( joke). It is more likely that one would use the term in a more "creative" way than an actual most appropriate translatable term.
So for example, on the Annunciation picture. I usually do not explain the picture. I let the person I'm showing it to figure it out for themselves. usually they get the basic story. Everyone tells it slightly different but the basic story stays the same ( no one knows the names). This is clearly an example of how Judaism and Christianity could come up with a story that matches another known story which they were exposed to but translated into thier own particular culture.