then why dont you get a 14" iBook, seems like what you want</strong><hr></blockquote>No, I don't want a G3 and polycarbonate plastic...I want a "Mini Ti," if you will.
OS X is quite fast for me on my iMac G4. Actually it is as fast as OS 9 was. Maybe you guys, who are finding it very slow, should try a fresh install. I did this to my iMac when 10.2 came out because I wanted 9 on a different partition. I noticed a good 20% speed increase on my machine after doing so. A very obvious 20%. I don't know why this effects it so much but I have sense done the same thing to all of our Macs. The PowerMac G4867 runs better and faster, the Cube 450 is substantially faster, and my iMac G4 is much more fluent.
\tI am not just saying that a fresh install of 10.2 runs faster that an old install of 10.2. But that a fresh install of 10.2 runs better, much better, than using the upgrade function. Don't ask me why but I have noticed this on 3 computers now.
Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?
It's your own damn fault you waited, not Apple's. You can't expect them to release products in mind of what YOU want. How selfish...
So now you are going to wait another 6 months, and just see another small leap in MHz, and you're going to complain then. But by then I am sure something like "Screw Macs, I am getting a PC" will come out of your mouth.
If you need a computer now, buy now. If you don't, then shut up.
Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?
Hey Flash, we're all disappointed that Apple's product doesn't beat the youknowwhat out of PCs in every respect - price, performance, applications, ease of use, etc! Your original post sortof bashed Apple engineering - which a lot of us think is pretty awesome - but I'm with you on the disappointment. My son has an iBook 600mhz and we think it's great, but it would be way better - because it's performance does sometimes get in the way - if it had a G4 at 800Mhz or more and a 32mb graphics card. I just wish that all the Mac's had twice the Mhz and the same (or lower!!) price. I'm sure Apple wishes that too!
I'm a desktop PC user, but almost 100% decided on getting an Apple laptop next. I don't need to tell you what's good about them so I'll list some things that I think could be made better.
- OS user interface, specifically, using the computer with keyboard only. Trackpads just plain suck IMHO, and I don't want to carry a regular mouse just to make a laptop usable. I've used a friend's Powerbook with all the shortcuts OS X offers, and had to use the trackpad way too often. Why not copy the way Windows uses the Alt key in menus, and apply the same behaviour in Apple key?
- All-in-one design. To a limit this is nice, both for usability and for engineering (cost, power) reasons, but when it comes to expensive parts like optical drives, I'd hate to pay for CD-RW or DVD-R capability when I am only going to use DVD. Bothers me even more because optical drives are easily interchangable parts. (See next comment for a large part of the solution.)
- Powerbook modular bays. I don't particularly appreciate sacrificing useful features for a perceived "cool" factor.
- Pro features in iBook form factor. 12.1" screen, Powerbook level processor, video card, and especially dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add. And reasons for smaller screen? Portability, battery consumption, price, and the fact that on the desktop we can have huge external monitors anyway.
- Different design for Powerbook. I personally find the current one ugly compared to iBook (why the heck doesn't keyboard stretch across the whole Powerbook?) plus I hear the titanium scratches easily. The latter problem is just engineering, and could be corrected simply by anodizing the Ti parts, which hardens the surface. See <a href="http://www.1sks.com/images/benchmade/bm-42-1.jpg"; target="_blank">this URL</a> for a knife with Ti handles, plain and anodized. I believe anodizing can be done in most colors, but blue and a sort of green seem the most common.
<strong>I am expecting very competitive pricing on these... I think we may be surprised with that, especially if they are just speedbumps.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!
Ugh. Judging from the full specs for the iBooks posted over at the <a href="http://www.powerpage.org/story.lasso?newsID=10160"; target="_blank">PowerPage</a> it looks like we are in for a very boring update. They haven't posted PowerBook specs yet but I don't expect them to be much either. No Bluetooth. No Superdrive. Just minor speed bumps and price cuts for both the iBooks and PowerBooks. Sheesh. I'm glad I didn't put my PowerBook on eBay.
The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.
In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air.
Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.
In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that I think they are holding out for January. We already know that both the iBooks and PowerBooks are getting $200 price cuts across the board. Prices starting at $999 for the iBook and $2299 for the PowerBook. It seems these are just holdovers, the bare minimum needed for decent Holiday sales.
Whoever said that Mac OS X is barely usable on a G3 600 needs to wake up. There are millions of iMac G3, Power Mac G3, PowerBook G3, and iBook G3 users that find Mac OS X completely usable.
Oog. If those PowerPage specs are real I'll be disappointed. I was hoping for at least a system bus increase and more standard RAM. No mention of VRAM though. Maybe 32? If it stays at 16 my credit card will stay in my pocket as well. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[edit] Oh, and a CD-ROM drive on the low end? What happened to Rip / Mix / Burn? Surely a CD-RW would have been at least as inexpensive to include.
<strong>dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.
Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I totally agree with you on that. i have no bluetooth enabled device and i have no plans to invest in one anytime soon. the feature that will get me to consider the new powerbooks is either a Radeon 9500 M or a SuperDrive.
Apart from that, ith as to be said that Apple's pro-portable lineup has to come down in price to $1999 and $2799 (or similar).
What with this current economy and all, you have to cut prices to sell, and seeing how the iBook will dropp below $1000, i think it's high time the 15" entry level iMac does the same.
As for the PowerMac i think $1499 would be a great entry level price(since it has no monitor).
Bluetooth can wait until all Pro products have the Superdrive option (and personally, im betting on getting that Superdrived PowerBookG4 before Christmas, i have a feeling Apple will surprise us.)
And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...
<strong>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...
Thanks for the info.
- Gon</strong><hr></blockquote>
no, he's referring to a hack which in some cases leaves machines unusable... I don't know why he referred to that as a solution
no, he's referring to a hack which in some cases leaves machines unusable... I don't know why he referred to that as a solution</strong><hr></blockquote>
I only heard of ONE who couldn't start his machine afterwards, and it was a owner of a 500 MHz iBook with a Rage chip, and the "hack" only works on iBooks with Radeon chips.
The "hack" works perfectly, and it is certainly a solution.
Comments
<strong>
then why dont you get a 14" iBook, seems like what you want</strong><hr></blockquote>No, I don't want a G3 and polycarbonate plastic...I want a "Mini Ti," if you will.
\tI am not just saying that a fresh install of 10.2 runs faster that an old install of 10.2. But that a fresh install of 10.2 runs better, much better, than using the upgrade function. Don't ask me why but I have noticed this on 3 computers now.
<strong>
Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?
[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's your own damn fault you waited, not Apple's. You can't expect them to release products in mind of what YOU want. How selfish...
So now you are going to wait another 6 months, and just see another small leap in MHz, and you're going to complain then. But by then I am sure something like "Screw Macs, I am getting a PC" will come out of your mouth.
If you need a computer now, buy now. If you don't, then shut up.
<strong>
Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?
[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Flash, we're all disappointed that Apple's product doesn't beat the youknowwhat out of PCs in every respect - price, performance, applications, ease of use, etc! Your original post sortof bashed Apple engineering - which a lot of us think is pretty awesome - but I'm with you on the disappointment. My son has an iBook 600mhz and we think it's great, but it would be way better - because it's performance does sometimes get in the way - if it had a G4 at 800Mhz or more and a 32mb graphics card. I just wish that all the Mac's had twice the Mhz and the same (or lower!!) price. I'm sure Apple wishes that too!
- OS user interface, specifically, using the computer with keyboard only. Trackpads just plain suck IMHO, and I don't want to carry a regular mouse just to make a laptop usable. I've used a friend's Powerbook with all the shortcuts OS X offers, and had to use the trackpad way too often. Why not copy the way Windows uses the Alt key in menus, and apply the same behaviour in Apple key?
- All-in-one design. To a limit this is nice, both for usability and for engineering (cost, power) reasons, but when it comes to expensive parts like optical drives, I'd hate to pay for CD-RW or DVD-R capability when I am only going to use DVD. Bothers me even more because optical drives are easily interchangable parts. (See next comment for a large part of the solution.)
- Powerbook modular bays. I don't particularly appreciate sacrificing useful features for a perceived "cool" factor.
- Pro features in iBook form factor. 12.1" screen, Powerbook level processor, video card, and especially dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add. And reasons for smaller screen? Portability, battery consumption, price, and the fact that on the desktop we can have huge external monitors anyway.
- Different design for Powerbook. I personally find the current one ugly compared to iBook (why the heck doesn't keyboard stretch across the whole Powerbook?) plus I hear the titanium scratches easily. The latter problem is just engineering, and could be corrected simply by anodizing the Ti parts, which hardens the surface. See <a href="http://www.1sks.com/images/benchmade/bm-42-1.jpg"; target="_blank">this URL</a> for a knife with Ti handles, plain and anodized. I believe anodizing can be done in most colors, but blue and a sort of green seem the most common.
hoping to spark some discussion
- Gon
[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: Gon ]
[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: Gon ]</p>
<strong>I am expecting very competitive pricing on these... I think we may be surprised with that, especially if they are just speedbumps.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!
I still wager that it will be February 2003
Lets see - I hope you are right - but I bet you arn't!
<strong>bet you they don't!!!!
I still wager that it will be February 2003
Lets see - I hope you are right - but I bet you arn't!
How old are you?
<strong>No Superdrive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.
In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air.
<strong>
Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Checkout the post near the bottom
<a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&s=50009562&a=tpc&f=8300945231&m=774096773 5&r=2720900835#2720900835" target="_blank">iBooker Post at MacArs</a>
<strong>
The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.
In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air.
Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that I think they are holding out for January. We already know that both the iBooks and PowerBooks are getting $200 price cuts across the board. Prices starting at $999 for the iBook and $2299 for the PowerBook. It seems these are just holdovers, the bare minimum needed for decent Holiday sales.
[edit] Oh, and a CD-ROM drive on the low end? What happened to Rip / Mix / Burn? Surely a CD-RW would have been at least as inexpensive to include.
[ 11-04-2002: Message edited by: 709 ]</p>
<strong>dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.
<strong>
Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I totally agree with you on that. i have no bluetooth enabled device and i have no plans to invest in one anytime soon. the feature that will get me to consider the new powerbooks is either a Radeon 9500 M or a SuperDrive.
Apart from that, ith as to be said that Apple's pro-portable lineup has to come down in price to $1999 and $2799 (or similar).
What with this current economy and all, you have to cut prices to sell, and seeing how the iBook will dropp below $1000, i think it's high time the 15" entry level iMac does the same.
As for the PowerMac i think $1499 would be a great entry level price(since it has no monitor).
Bluetooth can wait until all Pro products have the Superdrive option (and personally, im betting on getting that Superdrived PowerBookG4 before Christmas, i have a feeling Apple will surprise us.)
[ 11-04-2002: Message edited by: Hawkeye_a ]</p>
<strong>
And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...
Thanks for the info.
- Gon
<strong>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...
Thanks for the info.
- Gon</strong><hr></blockquote>
no, he's referring to a hack which in some cases leaves machines unusable... I don't know why he referred to that as a solution
<strong>
no, he's referring to a hack which in some cases leaves machines unusable... I don't know why he referred to that as a solution</strong><hr></blockquote>
I only heard of ONE who couldn't start his machine afterwards, and it was a owner of a 500 MHz iBook with a Rage chip, and the "hack" only works on iBooks with Radeon chips.
The "hack" works perfectly, and it is certainly a solution.
[ 11-04-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>