So you are saying bumped iBooks and PBs tomorrow and then 2 months later completely new portables? Sorry, if we get updates this week we won't see another one until March or May.</strong><hr></blockquote>
October 16, 2001 Apple released updated PowerBooks (550 and 667 MHz)
December 17, 2001 Apple updated the PowerBooks again (More RAM and Combo drive)
I'm not expecting totally new PowerBooks for a long time, but even history won't stop Apple from updating the PowerBooks (SuperDrive perhaps) in a few months.
Instead of all that useless-for-many fad called bluetooth, why don't they incorporate the new industry standard USB 2 on their portables (is USB 2.0 part of the towers allready?).
As I have heard, USB 2.0 is cheaper to implement than firewire, and it is still faster than the current firewire offerings. So are we taken hostage until Steve's legions release the long-time rumored Gigawire. And even then, has anybody noticed the price difference even between an USB 2.0 HD and a firewire HD, it gets to be as much as 50 to 70 bucks, which is a lot already at the low prices HD's are going for these days. Moreover, I see implementations of USB 2.0 rather than firewire in digital cameras and the like.
Needless to say, I don't care what Steve thinks I should think, I want USB 2.0!
<strong>As I have heard, USB 2.0 is cheaper to implement than firewire, and it is still faster than the current firewire offerings. So are we taken hostage until Steve's legions release the long-time rumored Gigawire</strong><hr></blockquote>
About 'history tells us Apple won't update PowerBooks after 2 months' and 'MWSF will be great'... RECENT history shows us that Apple is releasing iBooks/iMacs/PowerBooks/PowerMacs BETWEEN the big trade shows. When they're ready, not when everybody's listening. So if the Ti and the iBooks are updated today or tomorrow, expect a next revision (or better: new products) in about 4 to 7 months.
I hate to say it, but I really think that Firewire/Apple are in trouble. Check the marketplace, every new PC motherboard is now coming with USB 2 built in. Also loads of notebooks have it. It is just so easy for Intel to leverage their weight with the board makers, as they need Intel's support "chip side". I am worried about the future of firewire. I think Apple is too, hence the "open sourcing" of the name a couple of months ago. Will it be enough? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>Dell sells a wide range of labtops aimed at different market segments. Apple tries to use the one size fits all method but it doesn't work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? Does it work any worse than when they had 70 different Mac models out there? When the difference between a Performa and a PowerMac was you could buy one for £300 less but the same spec??!!
I think Apple are right to offer a limited range, it takes the confusion out of buying a Mac...I actually think they should have one iBook, 13" and ditch the 2 model strat'
Oooh that came across a bit harsh...sorry not a flame-post, just feel strongly about it
<strong>I hate to say it, but I really think that Firewire/Apple are in trouble. Check the marketplace, every new PC motherboard is now coming with USB 2 built in. Also loads of notebooks have it. It is just so easy for Intel to leverage their weight with the board makers, as they need Intel's support "chip side". I am worried about the future of firewire. I think Apple is too, hence the "open sourcing" of the name a couple of months ago. Will it be enough? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Matthew Rothenberg chimes in about possible upcoming laptops:
"As my friends in the retail channel tell me, Apple is traditionally loath to make a radical change to its product lineups this far into the holiday buying season. Modest speed increases and price reductions?and, at the high end, the addition of Bluetooth to the company's aggressive wireless arsenal?seem precisely the sorts of enhancements that will sweeten holiday sales for models that haven't seen a major upgrade in a year or more. (The last incremental improvements to the TiBook and iBook were in April and January, respectively.)"
<strong>If Apple wants more sales they are going to have to offer more choices.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple is not Dell. The Apple segment is much smaller than the PC market - if people don't find exactly the model they want, they can't go to another producer to find it. Introducing more models just means higher production costs, to pay for slicing the same cake into more wedges!
[quote] from JLL: The FireWire / IEEE-1394 standard is not handled by Apple but by the 1394 Trade Association.
Furthermore, Dell recently began selling iPods, and they wouldn't sell iPods to their customers without supporting FireWire
<hr></blockquote>
Yes, but until recently Apple held all the rights to both the name "Firewire" and the nuclear looking icon thingie. They decided just a little while ago to open that up to 3rd parties.
Also, sure dell will support it, as most makers do. The point ti me is more that as USB2 grown and gets more and more exposure peripheral makers are more likely to use it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>Well, the Goddess in training at AtAT is predicting 1Ghz powerbook with superdrive</strong><hr></blockquote>
It better be a 1ghz w/superdrive and a $200 price drop, minimum. It's the only way we'll know if Apple is serious about taking its products into a more appropriate, year '03, pricing structure. If it comes with a superdrive but goes even higher in price, that's really no upgrade, just the intro of an even higher-end model. Good if you really need a mobile DVD-burning solution, but likely to be surpassed within months by other makers, and when Apple lets the model stagnate with neither upgrade nor price drop for 6-9 months, likely to be seriously undercut in price and out-performed in spec.
Upgrades are not enough, price drops must also be included.
I hate to say this but you are acting as though at some point in the past Apple's pricing was completely reasonable! lol
When was this ever the case?? It has always been prohibitively expensive to be a mac user. Thats why it is so coooolll!! If anything, I think that they should revert to Powermac 7200's and double the price!!! Then we would really be cool!
<strong>Well, the Goddess in training at AtAT is predicting 1Ghz powerbook with superdrive</strong><hr></blockquote>
mm, they usually don't delve into rumors so this very interesting indeed. However, as memory serves, I'm still gonna stick to thinksecret's predictions until proven wrong.
As for FireWire dying - most newer PC motherboards (at least the quality ones) ship with FW. Not the cheap ones, but then many SoundBlasters I've seen lately came with FireWire as well.
As for KidRed's PowerBook prediction - what? Only Radeon 7500? Why no mobile 9000? Geez.
<strong>I hate to say it, but I really think that Firewire/Apple are in trouble. Check the marketplace, every new PC motherboard is now coming with USB 2 built in. Also loads of notebooks have it. It is just so easy for Intel to leverage their weight with the board makers, as they need Intel's support "chip side". I am worried about the future of firewire. I think Apple is too, hence the "open sourcing" of the name a couple of months ago. Will it be enough? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
set wayback machine to 1998... pc makers are including usb on all of their new machines, but still also including legacy poirts such as parallel for maximum backward compatibility. users who were already rationalizing buying cheaper pc's to meet their needs were also assessing their own needs and realized, hey, i don't need that usb port. so why should i care? and trying to get third party peripheral makers to support usb, when no one cared, was akin to herding chickens.
then what happens..?
apple introduces the computer you want to have, the imac. except, usb ONLY. period. want backward compatibility? you'll have to invest in backwards-compatible adapters. get on board, or be left behind. apple drove usb down 5% of the market's throat. and all the peripheral makers went... geez. 5% of the installed user base is still a HELL of a lot of profit, as long as i can be first-to-market. you then got ALL the third-party manufacturers making usb compatible devices (and, strangely enough, all in bondi blue enclosures.. i wonder why???). and THEN joe/jane consumer saw something really cool, wanted it, relaized it was only usb compatible, and THAT drove him/her to buy usb on his/her next computer. gosh, guess steve didn't just pull that "the computer is the hub to your digital lifestyle" completely out of his ass, did he?
put usb2 on all the computers you want. but until someone forces the issue so that third-party makers start making something more interesting than cd burners and hard drives (which are still immensely cheaper to buy as internals into a cheap pc tower rig), it will NOT take off. period.
don't even get me started on the damn floppy issue.
Comments
<strong>Anyways, no comments on the specs? I thought I'd here some bitching and moaning or debunks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
New low end PB is faster than the current high end, but $900 cheaper - that's a good thing.
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>
<strong>
So you are saying bumped iBooks and PBs tomorrow and then 2 months later completely new portables? Sorry, if we get updates this week we won't see another one until March or May.</strong><hr></blockquote>
October 16, 2001 Apple released updated PowerBooks (550 and 667 MHz)
December 17, 2001 Apple updated the PowerBooks again (More RAM and Combo drive)
I'm not expecting totally new PowerBooks for a long time, but even history won't stop Apple from updating the PowerBooks (SuperDrive perhaps) in a few months.
As I have heard, USB 2.0 is cheaper to implement than firewire, and it is still faster than the current firewire offerings. So are we taken hostage until Steve's legions release the long-time rumored Gigawire. And even then, has anybody noticed the price difference even between an USB 2.0 HD and a firewire HD, it gets to be as much as 50 to 70 bucks, which is a lot already at the low prices HD's are going for these days. Moreover, I see implementations of USB 2.0 rather than firewire in digital cameras and the like.
Needless to say, I don't care what Steve thinks I should think, I want USB 2.0!
<strong>As I have heard, USB 2.0 is cheaper to implement than firewire, and it is still faster than the current firewire offerings. So are we taken hostage until Steve's legions release the long-time rumored Gigawire</strong><hr></blockquote>
FireWire 2.0 is certainly not a rumor:
<a href="http://www.lacie.dk/news/news.cfm?id=D014264F-D6B7-11D6-981C0090278D3ED0"; target="_blank">http://www.lacie.dk/news/news.cfm?id=D014264F-D6B7-11D6-981C0090278D3ED0</a>;
<strong>
FireWire 2.0 is certainly not a rumor:
<a href="http://www.lacie.dk/news/news.cfm?id=D014264F-D6B7-11D6-981C0090278D3ED0"; target="_blank">http://www.lacie.dk/news/news.cfm?id=D014264F-D6B7-11D6-981C0090278D3ED0</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
And Gigawire is NOT known to be Firewire 2
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: warpd ]</p>
<strong>Dell sells a wide range of labtops aimed at different market segments. Apple tries to use the one size fits all method but it doesn't work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? Does it work any worse than when they had 70 different Mac models out there? When the difference between a Performa and a PowerMac was you could buy one for £300 less but the same spec??!!
I think Apple are right to offer a limited range, it takes the confusion out of buying a Mac...I actually think they should have one iBook, 13" and ditch the 2 model strat'
Oooh that came across a bit harsh...sorry not a flame-post, just feel strongly about it
<strong>I hate to say it, but I really think that Firewire/Apple are in trouble. Check the marketplace, every new PC motherboard is now coming with USB 2 built in. Also loads of notebooks have it. It is just so easy for Intel to leverage their weight with the board makers, as they need Intel's support "chip side". I am worried about the future of firewire. I think Apple is too, hence the "open sourcing" of the name a couple of months ago. Will it be enough? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: warpd ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The FireWire / IEEE-1394 standard is not handled by Apple but by the 1394 Trade Association.
Furthermore, Dell recently began selling iPods, and they wouldn't sell iPods to their customers without supporting FireWire
"As my friends in the retail channel tell me, Apple is traditionally loath to make a radical change to its product lineups this far into the holiday buying season. Modest speed increases and price reductions?and, at the high end, the addition of Bluetooth to the company's aggressive wireless arsenal?seem precisely the sorts of enhancements that will sweeten holiday sales for models that haven't seen a major upgrade in a year or more. (The last incremental improvements to the TiBook and iBook were in April and January, respectively.)"
Complete article here:
<a href="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,667575,00.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,667575,00.asp</a>;
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
<strong>If Apple wants more sales they are going to have to offer more choices.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple is not Dell. The Apple segment is much smaller than the PC market - if people don't find exactly the model they want, they can't go to another producer to find it. Introducing more models just means higher production costs, to pay for slicing the same cake into more wedges!
engpjp
As we all know, the iBook was last updated in May, 2002. I hate when such details are goofed. (Grrrrr....)
Furthermore, Dell recently began selling iPods, and they wouldn't sell iPods to their customers without supporting FireWire
<hr></blockquote>
Yes, but until recently Apple held all the rights to both the name "Firewire" and the nuclear looking icon thingie. They decided just a little while ago to open that up to 3rd parties.
Also, sure dell will support it, as most makers do. The point ti me is more that as USB2 grown and gets more and more exposure peripheral makers are more likely to use it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>Well, the Goddess in training at AtAT is predicting 1Ghz powerbook with superdrive</strong><hr></blockquote>
It better be a 1ghz w/superdrive and a $200 price drop, minimum. It's the only way we'll know if Apple is serious about taking its products into a more appropriate, year '03, pricing structure. If it comes with a superdrive but goes even higher in price, that's really no upgrade, just the intro of an even higher-end model. Good if you really need a mobile DVD-burning solution, but likely to be surpassed within months by other makers, and when Apple lets the model stagnate with neither upgrade nor price drop for 6-9 months, likely to be seriously undercut in price and out-performed in spec.
Upgrades are not enough, price drops must also be included.
When was this ever the case?? It has always been prohibitively expensive to be a mac user. Thats why it is so coooolll!! If anything, I think that they should revert to Powermac 7200's and double the price!!! Then we would really be cool!
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: warpd ]</p>
<strong>Well, the Goddess in training at AtAT is predicting 1Ghz powerbook with superdrive</strong><hr></blockquote>
mm, they usually don't delve into rumors so this very interesting indeed. However, as memory serves, I'm still gonna stick to thinksecret's predictions until proven wrong.
As for KidRed's PowerBook prediction - what? Only Radeon 7500? Why no mobile 9000? Geez.
<strong>I hate to say it, but I really think that Firewire/Apple are in trouble. Check the marketplace, every new PC motherboard is now coming with USB 2 built in. Also loads of notebooks have it. It is just so easy for Intel to leverage their weight with the board makers, as they need Intel's support "chip side". I am worried about the future of firewire. I think Apple is too, hence the "open sourcing" of the name a couple of months ago. Will it be enough? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: warpd ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
how quickly everyone forgets.
set wayback machine to 1998... pc makers are including usb on all of their new machines, but still also including legacy poirts such as parallel for maximum backward compatibility. users who were already rationalizing buying cheaper pc's to meet their needs were also assessing their own needs and realized, hey, i don't need that usb port. so why should i care? and trying to get third party peripheral makers to support usb, when no one cared, was akin to herding chickens.
then what happens..?
apple introduces the computer you want to have, the imac. except, usb ONLY. period. want backward compatibility? you'll have to invest in backwards-compatible adapters. get on board, or be left behind. apple drove usb down 5% of the market's throat. and all the peripheral makers went... geez. 5% of the installed user base is still a HELL of a lot of profit, as long as i can be first-to-market. you then got ALL the third-party manufacturers making usb compatible devices (and, strangely enough, all in bondi blue enclosures.. i wonder why???). and THEN joe/jane consumer saw something really cool, wanted it, relaized it was only usb compatible, and THAT drove him/her to buy usb on his/her next computer. gosh, guess steve didn't just pull that "the computer is the hub to your digital lifestyle" completely out of his ass, did he?
put usb2 on all the computers you want. but until someone forces the issue so that third-party makers start making something more interesting than cd burners and hard drives (which are still immensely cheaper to buy as internals into a cheap pc tower rig), it will NOT take off. period.
don't even get me started on the damn floppy issue.
[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>