JYD - Your point is taken, and I'm sure many agree with you. But let's still remember...the majority of people who read these forums at all are OUTSIDE the majority of customers
Yes, like potential switches that dislike AIOs and find the Towers too expensive.
I really hope the new G5s are priced lower than the G4s they're replacing. If Apple really wants to gain(was the word used "double"?)marketshare I think it's a no-brainer.
If they keep the same prices or even increase them as some have claimed Apple is going to do, expect the marketshare to keep dwindling down albeit in a slower manner (depending on how well these G5s perform).
If Apple is serious about doubling its marketshare and the new processors make them again "competitive" versus PCs performance-wise, the only way to go is by lowering the prices. I wouldn't mind an "uglier" looking Mac as long as the price/perfomance ratio was better.
It's the OS that helps the professionals make money, not the looks of the computer.
PowerMac G5s: professionals, "almost" professionals, gamers and people who want a powerful computer. Fast model should be priced the same as "least expensive" iMac. ($1299). Make the difference by a screen Fast G5 combo.
iMacs: for people who buy computers for aesthetic reasons or because they need an all in one computer because of space limitations. In my opinion the iMac 2s would've benefitted more(read sold better)from an "evolutionary" design change rather than such a radical design change. I have two friends who "like the eMac better" than the iMac 2s.
eMacs: entry level computer, cheaper all in one design for families on a budget or education.
There you have it. My blueprint to an increased market share. Flame at will.
Don't forget that people who buy towers with the intention of expanding them, and then never do, STILL BOUGHT THE TOWER. It doesn't make any difference to Apple whether they go on to expand (actually it's better for Apple if they don't, and then buy a new tower sooner).
I remember having almost talked an ex girlfriend into buying an iMac, and at the last minute her father talked her out of it because the iMac isn't upgradable. She said she wants her computer to last, so she went with a Dell.
Now if you knew this girl, you would know there is not a chance in hell of her EVER upgrading her tower. One winter I had to squirt WD40 in her car locks to keep them from freezing--if she can't do that, how will she open her DELL to swap CPUs? She wont.
That's the whole point, it doesn't matter if she ever will upgrade that DELL she bought, because she already bought it. Her dad, a wintel drone of the first degree, was able to talk her into the DELL because Apple doesn't make any consumer Macs for people who like to tinker. The terrible problem here isn't that there are multitudes of computer buyers who like to tinker, it's that when people don't know anything about computers, they usually find a tinkerer and get his opinion.
IMO, the tower and AIO designs shouldn't be stratified as entry level consumer vs. high price. I think Apple should have "consumer" and "pro" versions of both towers and AIOs. This would solve the entire problem by giving the buyer a choice between AIO and towers.
Don't forget that people who buy towers with the intention of expanding them, and then never do, STILL BOUGHT THE TOWER.
...
Bingo.
Your closing remark is also apt, CHOICE, you either provide it or people will go to someone who does. The "Mac" is not an island, clearly, the vast majority of people see the PC as a superior alternative.
Well, at $2K, I'm certainly not going to even bother doing a hardware bake-off. They'll sell a zillion of 'em to satisfy the pent up demand, but Apple has decided that market share must (yet again) wait for some mythical day in the future.....
I'm impressed with the G5 (although why only 1 full size bay???), but it's not a machine for the casual user.
This is a serious workstation... and I think comparing it to workstation class Dells, etc, is proper and interesting.
Comparing it to entry level towers aimed at Joe Sixpack in Wintel land is just ludicrous.
Big ol' gap in the pricing now, for a mid-range consumer tower to come swooping in though.
Any day now.
Any. Day. Now.
Roight.
Well, that's the hope.....
Anyway, the 1.8 Ghz and 2x2.0 GHz are workstation worthy, or at least trying to get into that category, but the 1.6 is not:
standard PCI vs. PCI-X
4 GB RAM limit vs. 8 GB (although I'd never need 4, so I'm willing to overlook it)
DDR 333 vs. DDR 400
The machine is designed to not appeal to anyone, the historical role of the cheapie Powermac. Power users won't compromise the hardware, and casual users won't pony up the dough. Only more so, in this case due to the price.
So, yeah. I'm miffed. If I buy an 'AIO', it'll be a portable, never and i- or e-thing. What's the freaking point of a desktop that has the expandability of a laptop (or less so, due to PCMCIA capabilities)? Sure, plus several thousand points for looking like a lamp or a shuttle nose cone, but minus several million for expandability and flexibility, you know???
*sigh*
The worst part is knowing they do this on purpose, not out of ignorance.
I still don't get the "MUST HAVE SLOTS!" mentality of the general herd of consumers... they don't *USE* the bloody things, but they're convinced that they're gonna diiiiiiieeeee if they don't get them. Jeez.
Only a couple of things I've seen the vast majority of folks change in their PCs: video cards, audio cards.
Other than that, they're: adding FireWire.
Well we *gots* da FW.
The iMac *can* swap out the video card, no? (Honestly, I haven't checked... color me lazy.)
That leaves the audio, which was all knew was substandard for watching DVDs over the 5.1 home theatre anyway.
Choice of display would be nice too, but guess what's the most popular Dell display chosen? 15" LCD. \ (Anecdotal, can't provide references, sorry... hey, at least it'll get people checking on it )
Other than that, what do people add that you *can't* add on an iMac? I don't mean 'can't add because I don't want an external BLAH', but *CANNOT* add? Now how many PC folks do you know that have added precisely that?
Curious here...
Fred: yeah, the lowest mobo is a bit of a letdown. Not a stellar pricepoint for the specs.
unless they changed the iMac when I wasn't looking, you cannot exchange the graphics unit.....
Would it be hard to redesign the iMac so that you could? I remember reading that some of the new Dell laptops have exchangable graphics units somewhere.....
Comments
Originally posted by Ensoniq
JYD - Your point is taken, and I'm sure many agree with you. But let's still remember...the majority of people who read these forums at all are OUTSIDE the majority of customers
Yes, like potential switches that dislike AIOs and find the Towers too expensive.
If they keep the same prices or even increase them as some have claimed Apple is going to do, expect the marketshare to keep dwindling down albeit in a slower manner (depending on how well these G5s perform).
If Apple is serious about doubling its marketshare and the new processors make them again "competitive" versus PCs performance-wise, the only way to go is by lowering the prices. I wouldn't mind an "uglier" looking Mac as long as the price/perfomance ratio was better.
It's the OS that helps the professionals make money, not the looks of the computer.
PowerMac G5s: professionals, "almost" professionals, gamers and people who want a powerful computer. Fast model should be priced the same as "least expensive" iMac. ($1299). Make the difference by a screen Fast G5 combo.
iMacs: for people who buy computers for aesthetic reasons or because they need an all in one computer because of space limitations. In my opinion the iMac 2s would've benefitted more(read sold better)from an "evolutionary" design change rather than such a radical design change. I have two friends who "like the eMac better" than the iMac 2s.
eMacs: entry level computer, cheaper all in one design for families on a budget or education.
There you have it. My blueprint to an increased market share. Flame at will.
I remember having almost talked an ex girlfriend into buying an iMac, and at the last minute her father talked her out of it because the iMac isn't upgradable. She said she wants her computer to last, so she went with a Dell.
Now if you knew this girl, you would know there is not a chance in hell of her EVER upgrading her tower. One winter I had to squirt WD40 in her car locks to keep them from freezing--if she can't do that, how will she open her DELL to swap CPUs? She wont.
That's the whole point, it doesn't matter if she ever will upgrade that DELL she bought, because she already bought it. Her dad, a wintel drone of the first degree, was able to talk her into the DELL because Apple doesn't make any consumer Macs for people who like to tinker. The terrible problem here isn't that there are multitudes of computer buyers who like to tinker, it's that when people don't know anything about computers, they usually find a tinkerer and get his opinion.
IMO, the tower and AIO designs shouldn't be stratified as entry level consumer vs. high price. I think Apple should have "consumer" and "pro" versions of both towers and AIOs. This would solve the entire problem by giving the buyer a choice between AIO and towers.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Don't forget that people who buy towers with the intention of expanding them, and then never do, STILL BOUGHT THE TOWER.
...
Bingo.
Your closing remark is also apt, CHOICE, you either provide it or people will go to someone who does. The "Mac" is not an island, clearly, the vast majority of people see the PC as a superior alternative.
Originally posted by O and A
?and why only 4gb? doesn't make sense?
Independent channels of RAM for each processor ?_otherwise, why would they say "up to"?
Originally posted by I, Fred
here's a big, fat, giant hint as to the entry-level range of prices Apple should consider
To respond to that, Apple ought to release an 800Mhz G3 tower for $599. A cube would be fine too.
While they're at it, they can reduce costs further by making the motherboard ATX form factor so they don't have to design a custom case.
I'm impressed with the G5 (although why only 1 full size bay???), but it's not a machine for the casual user.
Ah, well. Too bad.
This is a serious workstation... and I think comparing it to workstation class Dells, etc, is proper and interesting.
Comparing it to entry level towers aimed at Joe Sixpack in Wintel land is just ludicrous.
Big ol' gap in the pricing now, for a mid-range consumer tower to come swooping in though.
Any day now.
Any. Day. Now.
Roight.
[i] I'm impressed with the G5 (although why only 1 full size bay???), but it's not a machine for the casual user.
Ah, well. Too bad. [/B]
It really dissapoints me that the second bay had been removed. I planned on having a Superdrive and an internal 52x CD-RW drive. Oh well.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Nope, it's not.
This is a serious workstation... and I think comparing it to workstation class Dells, etc, is proper and interesting.
Comparing it to entry level towers aimed at Joe Sixpack in Wintel land is just ludicrous.
Big ol' gap in the pricing now, for a mid-range consumer tower to come swooping in though.
Any day now.
Any. Day. Now.
Roight.
Well, that's the hope.....
Anyway, the 1.8 Ghz and 2x2.0 GHz are workstation worthy, or at least trying to get into that category, but the 1.6 is not:
standard PCI vs. PCI-X
4 GB RAM limit vs. 8 GB (although I'd never need 4, so I'm willing to overlook it)
DDR 333 vs. DDR 400
The machine is designed to not appeal to anyone, the historical role of the cheapie Powermac. Power users won't compromise the hardware, and casual users won't pony up the dough. Only more so, in this case due to the price.
So, yeah. I'm miffed. If I buy an 'AIO', it'll be a portable, never and i- or e-thing. What's the freaking point of a desktop that has the expandability of a laptop (or less so, due to PCMCIA capabilities)? Sure, plus several thousand points for looking like a lamp or a shuttle nose cone, but minus several million for expandability and flexibility, you know???
*sigh*
The worst part is knowing they do this on purpose, not out of ignorance.
Only a couple of things I've seen the vast majority of folks change in their PCs: video cards, audio cards.
Other than that, they're: adding FireWire.
Well we *gots* da FW.
The iMac *can* swap out the video card, no? (Honestly, I haven't checked... color me lazy.)
That leaves the audio, which was all knew was substandard for watching DVDs over the 5.1 home theatre anyway.
Choice of display would be nice too, but guess what's the most popular Dell display chosen? 15" LCD.
Other than that, what do people add that you *can't* add on an iMac? I don't mean 'can't add because I don't want an external BLAH', but *CANNOT* add? Now how many PC folks do you know that have added precisely that?
Curious here...
Fred: yeah, the lowest mobo is a bit of a letdown. Not a stellar pricepoint for the specs.
Would it be hard to redesign the iMac so that you could? I remember reading that some of the new Dell laptops have exchangable graphics units somewhere.....