<strong>EDIT: Oh GOD you're right aren't you. Based on the gubbins in the TM application, it's more likely an iAPP isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I thought so too, but then I read the "Class: 9 Computer hardware and software" section that is listed only by title in the "IPHONE" text, but in full in the "IPOD" text.
There are some odd discrepancies, though. I take it the "IPHONE" text was passed through a translator or something, because it makes very little sense in many places.
[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>Imagine if you put all the powerful "Sherlock like" web sevices into this phone? Lookup airline flight arrivals and departures? Look up maps? Look up movie locations and times? Convert French to English when you are at a Paris Cafe?
Instead of a stupid browser on a phone, what if its a true "iPhone". Wireless Web services (XML baby!) Light! Fast! Easy! Low Bandwidth! No Brainer!
Would you buy a cell phone like that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed.
Don't let the name confuse you I'd say. Perhaps the iPhone is actually a wireless PDA type device. It enables you to go to .Mac to read your email (you set up an account there of course), access files you've transffered to your account and get news and info like other wireless PDA's. It is not neccessarily a voice device but an extension of your computer. I seem to remember this kind of device being bandied about several years ago.
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed. </strong><hr></blockquote>
We already have stuff like this from Vodafone here in New Zealand.
I really like Harald's ideas earlier in this thread about combining messages, Bluetooth, Rendezvous etc. That would be very neat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Awwwwwww.
Yep, if it's a wireless device, ya got to think about the killer thing. And the killer thing is something that only Apple can do, something that resets the concept of the device, while fitting into the Digital Hub vision ... total integration of Mac, .Mac and iApps with the device.
Personally I think it's staring us in the face. If you've ever shown someone a demo of sending / receiving SMS on your Mac, you get some serious "wow" factor.
Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.
You can get flight arrivals, maps, movie information, and language translation?! Please tell me you're not talking about WAP?
Also, isn't Vodafone a network rather than a cell phone hardware/software manufacturer?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky. But think, you can't use iPod to rip content. You can't enter data on iPod. The Mac is the hub remember ... and we WILL see iCal integration with Sherlock (enter a meeting address in iCal and grab the map via Sherlock ... and then beam the map to your iPhone).
If the date / address changes when you're on the way, iCal can reflect the new address and you get the new map downloaded via .Mac ... and WAP is just http really ... configure it via your PC and even non geeks will find it useful.
2) Vodafone, and the other operators including O2 and Orange, are moving more and more toward collaborations with people like Quanta computer (remember them?) to OEM / OED their own devices, spec'ed out by them and badged as Voda / Orange / O2 devices. For example, the SPV and the XDA. Japan did it first and made shitloads of money.
3) And we've not touched on messaging, either text or picture yet ...
[quote]Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.<hr></blockquote>
Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.
Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.
Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.
Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.
Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!
Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING
<strong>1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we knew that.
I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.
It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door.
I guess there is some scope for a crossover of Apple device + services, though, if Apple was to offer some kind of portal to other service providers.
I still think it's all a little improbable, though.
I've allowed myself to become a little more optimistic about the potential of Woz's little project. A PDA or cell phone with GPS that knows where you are would be very nice. So instead of having to search for the nearest movie theater, or bar, or store by address, I can just ask the device to find the nearest to where I'm standing.
Now don't forget about iChat will you sCreeDy ... I send you an IM. You're offline. No matter! You get it on your iPhone anyway. Or put it another way. I send you an SMS from the office. You're online, I don't pay for the message as it goes over the interweb.
[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
<strong>
Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.
Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.
Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.
Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.
Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!
Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING
<strong>You're online, I don't pay for the message as it goes over the interweb.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing.
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>did anyone else read this and think: "IP telephony"?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that wouldn't be in the AI spirit of ridiculously optimistic over-anticipation, would it now?
I don't believe this is going to be WAP based. Doesn't make sense. WAP sucks. Using your wireless provider and tunnelling TCP/IP over it is the ticket. I think it is as simple as Sherlock Services (XML) on a very very cool cell phone. Maybe a phone with no regular buttons. Maybe something so innovative it refines how to interact with a phone.
I could see two phones, one for europe, the other for the states. US first though. Sorry. I can also see a GPS impended.
I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.
It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, they made SHITLOADS of money by the walled garden / integrated operator / manufacturer approach. Banking was boring, but gaming and other iMode sites were INCREDIBLY lucrative. It flopped in the UK and in Europe because they comprehensively fücked it up. I could tell you why ...
Believe me, you can sneak something like that out the back door.
I know because I did it: a UK / Taiwan / hardware / software / middleware jobby.
And actually, in the case of the device being proposed here, all you have to do is qualify a GSM data enabled device for use on a network ... standard procedure ... ALL the rest of it is taken care of by third party servers (ie .Mac) ...
All you're doing is shuttling data via http from one place to another, and there's no additional billing / integration with the networks what-so-ever. The software piece (phone - Mac) is actually very very very very easy if you use XML, ie SyncML.
There ARE some hardware / software issues, mainly display and getting enough welly out of the sort of processor normally found in a handset. But I've seen (and been involved with) enough similar projects, some of which didn't make it to market for commercial other then technological reasons, to know this is possible. And certainly if you "own" both ends of the widget.
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing]</strong><hr></blockquote>
<--- just hit 100, woo!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damned newbies.
I'm jealous. Your mere 109 makes you so young! I'm an old and wrinkly 1565 (which, ironically, is also the year of my birth).
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Now here we're in agreement!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe. It's getting near Christmas, I'm getting that Grinchy feeling again.
Even if much of this stuff is possible, I think it takes a huge leap of the imagination to think that Apple has something like this ready to go within the next few months. There have been rumors over the years of these fantastical devices from Apple that would be so revolutionary, and yet not one has appeared. Mythical beasts, one and all.
Maybe I should add that one of the reasons for doing this is BRING DOWN data bills, as if you're in range of the computer you route as much as possible via iPhone --> Bluetooth --> Mac --> internet --> Mac --> Bluetooth --> your mate's mobile
Comments
<strong>EDIT: Oh GOD you're right aren't you. Based on the gubbins in the TM application, it's more likely an iAPP isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I thought so too, but then I read the "Class: 9 Computer hardware and software" section that is listed only by title in the "IPHONE" text, but in full in the "IPOD" text.
There are some odd discrepancies, though. I take it the "IPHONE" text was passed through a translator or something, because it makes very little sense in many places.
[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>Imagine if you put all the powerful "Sherlock like" web sevices into this phone? Lookup airline flight arrivals and departures? Look up maps? Look up movie locations and times? Convert French to English when you are at a Paris Cafe?
Instead of a stupid browser on a phone, what if its a true "iPhone". Wireless Web services (XML baby!) Light! Fast! Easy! Low Bandwidth! No Brainer!
Would you buy a cell phone like that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed.
<strong>
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed.
We already have stuff like this from Vodafone here in New Zealand.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>
Hmmm... yes, I agree. (thinking off the top of my head too) I think there are some we have not thought of too.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really like Harald's ideas earlier in this thread about combining messages, Bluetooth, Rendezvous etc. That would be very neat.
<strong>
MP3 player from Apple. Who the hell would one made by them? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not me.
:eek:
<strong>We already have stuff like this from Vodafone here in New Zealand.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can get flight arrivals, maps, movie information, and language translation?! Please tell me you're not talking about WAP?
Also, isn't Vodafone a network rather than a cell phone hardware/software manufacturer?
<strong>
I really like Harald's ideas earlier in this thread about combining messages, Bluetooth, Rendezvous etc. That would be very neat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Awwwwwww.
Yep, if it's a wireless device, ya got to think about the killer thing. And the killer thing is something that only Apple can do, something that resets the concept of the device, while fitting into the Digital Hub vision ... total integration of Mac, .Mac and iApps with the device.
Personally I think it's staring us in the face. If you've ever shown someone a demo of sending / receiving SMS on your Mac, you get some serious "wow" factor.
Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.
<strong>
You can get flight arrivals, maps, movie information, and language translation?! Please tell me you're not talking about WAP?
Also, isn't Vodafone a network rather than a cell phone hardware/software manufacturer?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky. But think, you can't use iPod to rip content. You can't enter data on iPod. The Mac is the hub remember ... and we WILL see iCal integration with Sherlock (enter a meeting address in iCal and grab the map via Sherlock ... and then beam the map to your iPhone).
If the date / address changes when you're on the way, iCal can reflect the new address and you get the new map downloaded via .Mac ... and WAP is just http really ... configure it via your PC and even non geeks will find it useful.
2) Vodafone, and the other operators including O2 and Orange, are moving more and more toward collaborations with people like Quanta computer (remember them?) to OEM / OED their own devices, spec'ed out by them and badged as Voda / Orange / O2 devices. For example, the SPV and the XDA. Japan did it first and made shitloads of money.
3) And we've not touched on messaging, either text or picture yet ...
[quote]Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.<hr></blockquote>
Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.
Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.
Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.
Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.
Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!
Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
:eek:
<strong>1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we knew that.
I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.
It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door.
I guess there is some scope for a crossover of Apple device + services, though, if Apple was to offer some kind of portal to other service providers.
I still think it's all a little improbable, though.
I've allowed myself to become a little more optimistic about the potential of Woz's little project. A PDA or cell phone with GPS that knows where you are would be very nice. So instead of having to search for the nearest movie theater, or bar, or store by address, I can just ask the device to find the nearest to where I'm standing.
[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
<strong>
Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.
Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.
Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.
Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.
Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!
Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
first; the mobile-phone massive from digital hub is representing in force.
secondly; did anyone else read this and think: "IP telephony"?
Just wondering ...
second edit: what if this is going to be just an OS?
iPhone = Apple's symbian-based phone OS.
Capitalizing on a burgeoning market by making a superior OS run on all kinds of hardware... hmm... when have they had this chance before?
naaaah.
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
<strong>You're online, I don't pay for the message as it goes over the interweb.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing.
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>did anyone else read this and think: "IP telephony"?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that wouldn't be in the AI spirit of ridiculously optimistic over-anticipation, would it now?
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
I could see two phones, one for europe, the other for the states. US first though. Sorry. I can also see a GPS impended.
Marketing Ideas (top of my head):
Say Hello to iPhone.
You will never get lost again.
Don't leave home without it.
....you guys can come up with more ....
<strong>
But that wouldn't be in the AI spirit of ridiculously optimistic over-anticipation, would it now?
I wouldn't know. I'm new around here.
<--- just hit 100, woo!
<strong>
I think we knew that.
I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.
It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, they made SHITLOADS of money by the walled garden / integrated operator / manufacturer approach. Banking was boring, but gaming and other iMode sites were INCREDIBLY lucrative. It flopped in the UK and in Europe because they comprehensively fücked it up. I could tell you why ...
Believe me, you can sneak something like that out the back door.
I know because I did it: a UK / Taiwan / hardware / software / middleware jobby.
And actually, in the case of the device being proposed here, all you have to do is qualify a GSM data enabled device for use on a network ... standard procedure ... ALL the rest of it is taken care of by third party servers (ie .Mac) ...
All you're doing is shuttling data via http from one place to another, and there's no additional billing / integration with the networks what-so-ever. The software piece (phone - Mac) is actually very very very very easy if you use XML, ie SyncML.
There ARE some hardware / software issues, mainly display and getting enough welly out of the sort of processor normally found in a handset. But I've seen (and been involved with) enough similar projects, some of which didn't make it to market for commercial other then technological reasons, to know this is possible. And certainly if you "own" both ends of the widget.
<strong>
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now here we're in agreement!
<strong>I wouldn't know. I'm new around here.
<--- just hit 100, woo!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damned newbies.
I'm jealous. Your mere 109 makes you so young! I'm an old and wrinkly 1565 (which, ironically, is also the year of my birth).
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Now here we're in agreement!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe. It's getting near Christmas, I'm getting that Grinchy feeling again.
Even if much of this stuff is possible, I think it takes a huge leap of the imagination to think that Apple has something like this ready to go within the next few months. There have been rumors over the years of these fantastical devices from Apple that would be so revolutionary, and yet not one has appeared. Mythical beasts, one and all.
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
Maybe I should add that one of the reasons for doing this is BRING DOWN data bills, as if you're in range of the computer you route as much as possible via iPhone --> Bluetooth --> Mac --> internet --> Mac --> Bluetooth --> your mate's mobile
Lowest cost routing of messaging.
Sorry for the multiple posting.
[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>