Oh man, I think we're going to have a real winner on our hands here.
I'm a total OS X freak and I love (almost) every bit of it. Seeing these screen shots has me very excited for what the future holds for Panther.
I really like the new look and operation of the Finder. Personally, I like the brushed metal look, although I'm not sure how I feel about the further mixing of brushed metal and Aqua. Perhaps after I actually see Panther in action, I'll not have any problems with it. However I will say the new Finder looks fantastic.
The Finder has been one of my biggest complaints with OS X. It just feels like I have to dig deep through folders anytime I want to access something. I have a feeling Panther is going to correct a lot of that.
*sigh* I can't wait for <sometime before the end of the year>!
MacOS X has a perfectly good Notification Manager system built in (or three), and it is strictly the Finder's fault if it isn't listening for file system updates. Putting in a lame hack to force the user to kick it in the ass when it gets brain dead because it was poorly designed is *NOT* acceptable... because that isn't the case here. The underlying design is fine, the Finder is broken. No need for a nasty hack.
Sure, automatic updating like the Finder is supposed to do would be great, but since it hasn't worked correctly since 10.0 the problem is either a tough nut to crack, or a strangely low priority.
Even if Apple fixes the bugs related to automatic updating of Finder windows, I'd imagine that in some cases, like viewing your iDisk or an FTP server, that there's no protocol for automatically informing your computer about changes on a remote file system made by someone else accessing those same files. The only was around this kind of problem would be regular directory polling, something that you wouldn't want to do too frequently -- making a Refresh command for Finder windows useful for when you don't want to wait for the next directory poll to take place.
At any rate... I'd still like to know from someone playing with Pather if they've seen any evidence that the new Finder is doing any better at keeping desktop icons, file info, and file sorting in open Finder windows properly up-to-date.
Well I can say that so far limited Finder testing has shown that copying files into another folder shows them immediatly. I haven't had to fresh anything yet!
Playing around with the other apps shows an amazing amount of tweaks. Take the Terminal for example, look into the Windows settings Apple has provided a number of default colour options (green on black, white on blue, etc), using a picture as the background!, keyboard actions (assign a command to a keystroke), connecting to a server using different protocols! and MUCH more. Terminal geeks will rejoice for sure
The UI in Panther has updated considerably. For example anything with a tab interface now has simple buttons and grouping "boxes" have a slight inset look rather than simple outlines.
Also, Apple is working quite clearly on subduing the Aqua pinstripes into something more like the current hardware (aluminum). This change I really like. Pinstripes are so 1998 vintage iMac....
I don't get why they're going away from tabs. Sure, it's not that much more visual feedback, but why take it out? What was wrong with showing the extra tie-in between the button and the panel?
Well I can say that so far limited Finder testing has shown that copying files into another folder shows them immediatly. I haven't had to fresh anything yet!
If you're talking about simply dragging files around in the Finder, there's never been (that I recall) a problem with that.
The problem I'm ranting about is regarding such things as having an open Finder window, and saving a new document into it from an app other than the Finder, or when you're looking at a shared volume and a new file is put there by someone else. The new stuff that should be appearing doesn't appear until coaxed by a bit of direct clicking. Saving to the desktop from other apps also can be a problem, where you won't see the file on the desktop until you click somewhere on the desktop.
The worst case of this kind of thing I've seen is with list views sorted by date. If you've left such a Finder window open while changing files you simply can't trust what you're seeing until you click on each and every file in the list, or close the window and open a new one. Reusing the same window doesn't help (say going up a level then back down), nor does hiding and re-exposing hierarchical file lists. The modification dates show in a Finder window will be obstinantly stuck until you directly click on each file. This is very bad if what you're trying to do is select the files you've just modified.
Looks like the new Finder is kick ass. Treated as an 'iapp'?
I like the go-slower pin-stripes and the soft grey gradient...
Love the iTunes style 'Finder'. Much more user centric. iTunes. One of the simplest and best user interfaces. Easy. Hope Panther is as easy.
Like the icon view with toolbar off. Gasp...OS 9 returns from grave!?
Guess those OS9 folks had to go somewhere? Perhaps they are turning the Next core into the real Mac OS Jewel.
It's no accident to me that this OS is a mix of Next, Mac OS and Windows Xp.
Personally, I liked the tab functionality to change an App. Very useful when you are doing PDF tutorials. (I often have to flick back quickly on 3D tutorials!!!)
There are elements in X that behave like XP. Well, they stole and we counter stole and made it better. M$ had it coming. Don't rub Apple's rhubarb! The next tech' is in there. They hired the guy formerly of BEOS?
Seems it's all coming together. More nice iapps...but there seems to be alot more of the 'next gen' user spit and polish that you'd expect a next gen' Mac Finder to have that kicks ass. eg 'Expose.' That is cool. That's the kinda stuff I was hopin' would be in Panther. Seems utterly Mac...fast...looks simple to use...
Would like to see those 'pile' files...and more Dock functionality/flexibility.
I was quite impressed with what Steve Jobs had to show of Panther. It is really coming together. It should fly with a dual G5 when it's all finished. Looks great...and it aint finished yet...
Just a note about Network. When you configure your Ethernet settings, you can choose if you wan't the computer to auto negotiate or let it run 10MBit or 100Mbit, half duplex or full duplex, and you can even use Jumbo frames.
I just played around in Panther a bit, and have to say that the metal Finder is indeed VERY (yes, VERY) ugly. I hope the final release will bring a lot of improvements. My god, did I say that it was ugly? Anyway, Panther (notably Expose) runs smoother than something that runs real smooth on my ibook 600 (and that is off of an iPod!).
This developer version of Panther, screams on this puppy. Typing is faster, the finder (although not great UI wise, my opinion) screams, thread management seems much much better, windows open faster, and the UI is so much more responsive (not to mention better looking, minus the the removal of tabs and the new finder). Expose works very well, and should work great with Quartz Extreme (I don't have that capability).
I feel like I have a new computer. Panther gets close to Mac OS 9 in terms of response times and performance UI wise. For all you Sawtooth users out there...you don't have to upgrade your machine yet...Panther really breathes new life into it.
No beach balls yet. This is a great developer preview and no doubt the finalized version will be even faster.
For those naysayers, althougth I don't like brushed metal in the finder, it isn't that bad and it makes up for itself in speed...a simple "aqua" option should satisfy all of us.
Wonderful job Apple, just keep listening to your users regarding the UI.
I'm with C47 (his comparison screens are a perfect example)...I think Jaguar looks almost tacky / clunky compared to Panther. Just MO of course but....
Love the iTunes style 'Finder'. Much more user centric.
I don't like the new style and I certainly don't want the Finder to be "user centric", but that's probably just me (how can you call it "user centric" anyway, when remote sessions are not even possible?). I hope it will be possible to just turn off the left frame, that would at least give me the possibility to have a Jaguar like Finder. (BTW, if you have two volumes with the same name, one of them is being ignored.)
However, the main problem with the new Finder is resizing, we're finally back at speeds we only remember from the 10.0 days (ok, I still have a G4 733). During resizing, the Finder consumes over 65% of the available processing power, everything that is left is being used by the WindowServer. Since this is even the case if none of the panels have to be re-rendered (also no scaling, just clipping), this is totally inacceptable and I really wonder how bad programmers have to be to come up with such a bad implementation.
As much as I am impressed by Exposé (has anyone been able to figure out how the algorithm works?) etc., the new Finder windows suck big time.
If you're talking about simply dragging files around in the Finder, there's never been (that I recall) a problem with that.
The problem I'm ranting about is regarding such things as having an open Finder window, and saving a new document into it from an app other than the Finder
You have to activate the target window, then the file will become visible (just as in Jaguar).
Also a bit disappointing: moving windows around still uses lots of processing power, I don't really know why... However, I have to say that the overall responsiveness/speed really has been improved dramatically. It's just resizing (without much rendering) and movement that use too much resources in my opinion.
Open a finder window, go to icon view and click the topright window widget, and suddenly you're in OS9 mode. [/B]
They even made it so much like OS 9 that you can't even drag the window around if the click in the title bar is too low (where the number of items and free disk space is written, however, I haven't used OS 9 for months, so I'm not sure if it's just a bug in Panther or if this is really OS 9 like behaviour).
MS Active Directory support (no alteration of the AD server required or strange hacks).
Software Update can be called from the Apple Menu
Print Center renamed to Printer Setup Utility
Multiple .PKG installs ability from a single Installer App launch!
HUGE improvements to Console.app (email logs, look at all sort of other log files.
System Profiler is much nicer
Apps launch MUCH quicker
Font Book actually works as advertized. (I needed Verdana for use in Safari and double clicked on the font from another partition to install it while the Safari prefs were opened and it just plain appeared.)
Apple Remote Desktop seems to be installed by default
IE is NOWHERE to be found (AMEN)
Apple has still not improved on the Text to Speech voices. Still using the same old System 7.5 voices. I was hoping for the AT&T stuff...
I also noticed that doing a clean install and erasing a hard drive selects HFS+ Journaled by default now (UFS is the only other type available).
I'm still poking around but so much has changed its nice to see them working so hard. My money is ready for this upgrade (albeit I have a dual G5 on order so I expect to get a free or nomimal upgrade price)
Yea, I've got to say, what's really nice about this release is the spit and polish of it. Every iteration of the OS feels so much cleaner than the previous. It's literally the anti-Microsoft: instead of adding bloat and slowing stuff down, Apple is literally adding features and speeding things up. It's amazing.
I think someone asked the question, but I haven't seen an answer...Does FTP in Finder finally work as it should (or as most people think it should). That is, can you copy to an FTP server in FInder as opposed to just from. This would be a huge asset for me.
I think someone asked the question, but I haven't seen an answer...Does FTP in Finder finally work as it should (or as most people think it should). That is, can you copy to an FTP server in FInder as opposed to just from. This would be a huge asset for me.
Comments
I'm a total OS X freak and I love (almost) every bit of it. Seeing these screen shots has me very excited for what the future holds for Panther.
I really like the new look and operation of the Finder. Personally, I like the brushed metal look, although I'm not sure how I feel about the further mixing of brushed metal and Aqua. Perhaps after I actually see Panther in action, I'll not have any problems with it. However I will say the new Finder looks fantastic.
The Finder has been one of my biggest complaints with OS X. It just feels like I have to dig deep through folders anytime I want to access something. I have a feeling Panther is going to correct a lot of that.
*sigh* I can't wait for <sometime before the end of the year>!
It's a great time to be a Mac user.
DDJ
Originally posted by Kickaha
Oh ick, no.
MacOS X has a perfectly good Notification Manager system built in (or three), and it is strictly the Finder's fault if it isn't listening for file system updates. Putting in a lame hack to force the user to kick it in the ass when it gets brain dead because it was poorly designed is *NOT* acceptable... because that isn't the case here. The underlying design is fine, the Finder is broken. No need for a nasty hack.
Sure, automatic updating like the Finder is supposed to do would be great, but since it hasn't worked correctly since 10.0 the problem is either a tough nut to crack, or a strangely low priority.
Even if Apple fixes the bugs related to automatic updating of Finder windows, I'd imagine that in some cases, like viewing your iDisk or an FTP server, that there's no protocol for automatically informing your computer about changes on a remote file system made by someone else accessing those same files. The only was around this kind of problem would be regular directory polling, something that you wouldn't want to do too frequently -- making a Refresh command for Finder windows useful for when you don't want to wait for the next directory poll to take place.
At any rate... I'd still like to know from someone playing with Pather if they've seen any evidence that the new Finder is doing any better at keeping desktop icons, file info, and file sorting in open Finder windows properly up-to-date.
Playing around with the other apps shows an amazing amount of tweaks. Take the Terminal for example, look into the Windows settings Apple has provided a number of default colour options (green on black, white on blue, etc), using a picture as the background!, keyboard actions (assign a command to a keystroke), connecting to a server using different protocols! and MUCH more. Terminal geeks will rejoice for sure
The UI in Panther has updated considerably. For example anything with a tab interface now has simple buttons and grouping "boxes" have a slight inset look rather than simple outlines.
Also, Apple is working quite clearly on subduing the Aqua pinstripes into something more like the current hardware (aluminum). This change I really like. Pinstripes are so 1998 vintage iMac....
Here's a sample :
Jaguar UI:
http://216.138.203.179/images/JaguarUI.jpg
PantherUI:
http://216.138.203.179/images/PantherUI.jpg
Originally posted by C47
Well I can say that so far limited Finder testing has shown that copying files into another folder shows them immediatly. I haven't had to fresh anything yet!
If you're talking about simply dragging files around in the Finder, there's never been (that I recall) a problem with that.
The problem I'm ranting about is regarding such things as having an open Finder window, and saving a new document into it from an app other than the Finder, or when you're looking at a shared volume and a new file is put there by someone else. The new stuff that should be appearing doesn't appear until coaxed by a bit of direct clicking. Saving to the desktop from other apps also can be a problem, where you won't see the file on the desktop until you click somewhere on the desktop.
The worst case of this kind of thing I've seen is with list views sorted by date. If you've left such a Finder window open while changing files you simply can't trust what you're seeing until you click on each and every file in the list, or close the window and open a new one. Reusing the same window doesn't help (say going up a level then back down), nor does hiding and re-exposing hierarchical file lists. The modification dates show in a Finder window will be obstinantly stuck until you directly click on each file. This is very bad if what you're trying to do is select the files you've just modified.
I like the go-slower pin-stripes and the soft grey gradient...
Love the iTunes style 'Finder'. Much more user centric. iTunes. One of the simplest and best user interfaces. Easy. Hope Panther is as easy.
Like the icon view with toolbar off. Gasp...OS 9 returns from grave!?
Guess those OS9 folks had to go somewhere? Perhaps they are turning the Next core into the real Mac OS Jewel.
It's no accident to me that this OS is a mix of Next, Mac OS and Windows Xp.
Personally, I liked the tab functionality to change an App. Very useful when you are doing PDF tutorials. (I often have to flick back quickly on 3D tutorials!!!)
There are elements in X that behave like XP. Well, they stole and we counter stole and made it better. M$ had it coming. Don't rub Apple's rhubarb! The next tech' is in there. They hired the guy formerly of BEOS?
Seems it's all coming together. More nice iapps...but there seems to be alot more of the 'next gen' user spit and polish that you'd expect a next gen' Mac Finder to have that kicks ass. eg 'Expose.' That is cool. That's the kinda stuff I was hopin' would be in Panther. Seems utterly Mac...fast...looks simple to use...
Would like to see those 'pile' files...and more Dock functionality/flexibility.
I was quite impressed with what Steve Jobs had to show of Panther. It is really coming together. It should fly with a dual G5 when it's all finished. Looks great...and it aint finished yet...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by C47
PantherUI:
http://216.138.203.179/images/PantherUI.jpg
Just a note about Network. When you configure your Ethernet settings, you can choose if you wan't the computer to auto negotiate or let it run 10MBit or 100Mbit, half duplex or full duplex, and you can even use Jumbo frames.
Sawtooth G4 400
256 RAM
10 Gig 7200 Quantum Fireball
16mb Rage 128
This developer version of Panther, screams on this puppy. Typing is faster, the finder (although not great UI wise, my opinion) screams, thread management seems much much better, windows open faster, and the UI is so much more responsive (not to mention better looking, minus the the removal of tabs and the new finder). Expose works very well, and should work great with Quartz Extreme (I don't have that capability).
I feel like I have a new computer. Panther gets close to Mac OS 9 in terms of response times and performance UI wise. For all you Sawtooth users out there...you don't have to upgrade your machine yet...Panther really breathes new life into it.
No beach balls yet. This is a great developer preview and no doubt the finalized version will be even faster.
For those naysayers, althougth I don't like brushed metal in the finder, it isn't that bad and it makes up for itself in speed...a simple "aqua" option should satisfy all of us.
Wonderful job Apple, just keep listening to your users regarding the UI.
In addition to faxing it seems that Panther can act as a fax SERVER!!!
http://homepage.mac.com/dscottbuch/Fax_Server.jpg
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Love the iTunes style 'Finder'. Much more user centric.
I don't like the new style and I certainly don't want the Finder to be "user centric", but that's probably just me (how can you call it "user centric" anyway, when remote sessions are not even possible?). I hope it will be possible to just turn off the left frame, that would at least give me the possibility to have a Jaguar like Finder. (BTW, if you have two volumes with the same name, one of them is being ignored.)
However, the main problem with the new Finder is resizing, we're finally back at speeds we only remember from the 10.0 days (ok, I still have a G4 733). During resizing, the Finder consumes over 65% of the available processing power, everything that is left is being used by the WindowServer. Since this is even the case if none of the panels have to be re-rendered (also no scaling, just clipping), this is totally inacceptable and I really wonder how bad programmers have to be to come up with such a bad implementation.
As much as I am impressed by Exposé (has anyone been able to figure out how the algorithm works?) etc., the new Finder windows suck big time.
Originally posted by shetline
If you're talking about simply dragging files around in the Finder, there's never been (that I recall) a problem with that.
The problem I'm ranting about is regarding such things as having an open Finder window, and saving a new document into it from an app other than the Finder
You have to activate the target window, then the file will become visible (just as in Jaguar).
Also a bit disappointing: moving windows around still uses lots of processing power, I don't really know why... However, I have to say that the overall responsiveness/speed really has been improved dramatically. It's just resizing (without much rendering) and movement that use too much resources in my opinion.
Originally posted by HoofHearted
That OS9 feeling
Open a finder window, go to icon view and click the topright window widget, and suddenly you're in OS9 mode. [/B]
They even made it so much like OS 9 that you can't even drag the window around if the click in the title bar is too low (where the number of items and free disk space is written, however, I haven't used OS 9 for months, so I'm not sure if it's just a bug in Panther or if this is really OS 9 like behaviour).
Perl is at 5.8.1 now (Yeah!!)
MS Active Directory support (no alteration of the AD server required or strange hacks).
Software Update can be called from the Apple Menu
Print Center renamed to Printer Setup Utility
Multiple .PKG installs ability from a single Installer App launch!
HUGE improvements to Console.app (email logs, look at all sort of other log files.
System Profiler is much nicer
Apps launch MUCH quicker
Font Book actually works as advertized. (I needed Verdana for use in Safari and double clicked on the font from another partition to install it while the Safari prefs were opened and it just plain appeared.)
Apple Remote Desktop seems to be installed by default
IE is NOWHERE to be found (AMEN)
Apple has still not improved on the Text to Speech voices. Still using the same old System 7.5 voices. I was hoping for the AT&T stuff...
I also noticed that doing a clean install and erasing a hard drive selects HFS+ Journaled by default now (UFS is the only other type available).
I'm still poking around but so much has changed its nice to see them working so hard. My money is ready for this upgrade (albeit I have a dual G5 on order so I expect to get a free or nomimal upgrade price)
More to follow as I find stuff...
Originally posted by C47
Some other stuff of note in Panther:
Apple Remote Desktop seems to be installed by default
IE is NOWHERE to be found (AMEN)
???
My Panther installed IE (promptly deleted by me), and I don't see any Remote Desktop on my system.
Did you do a clean install or something else?
Acrobat wasn't installed either.
Barto
Originally posted by SledgeHammer
I think someone asked the question, but I haven't seen an answer...Does FTP in Finder finally work as it should (or as most people think it should). That is, can you copy to an FTP server in FInder as opposed to just from. This would be a huge asset for me.
No
Originally posted by Barto
???
My Panther installed IE (promptly deleted by me), and I don't see any Remote Desktop on my system.
Did you do a clean install or something else?
Acrobat wasn't installed either.
Barto
IE was installed with the second CD. Sorry, I didn't do the second CD the first time around. Oh well.
As for Apple Remote Desktop, have a look under Sharing in the System Prefs. Its the client version but its there!
Man, I can't get over how much faster some stuff is now. Those little sheets just zoom in and out. Exposé is the killer feature if you ask me.
iCal launches right now and I'm testing this on my 600Mhz iBook. I'm looking forward to seeing how fast this whole thing is on a new dual G5.
*Giddy with anticipation*