...Even if everybody stopped buying gasoline-powered cars today, the major car manufacturers couldn't offer us supersonic flying cars tomorrow. Any given technology will be ready when it is ready, not a moment sooner. Poor sales of a revised G4-based PowerBook lineup will not advance PowerBook G5 availability by even a day.
Cold Turkey
Well I'm sure Apple is already working quickly (though not rushing) to get the G5 together.
I agree with you, but it isn't necessarily true, I mean look at Intel. They could have come out with a consumer 64-bit chip by now but they havn't because there wasn't a big enough demand for it, and they can continue making money without it. You move alot faster when your dodging between the feet of a Dinosaur.
Edit: I don't think I made it clear enough how much I agree with you, I was just saying us bocotting buying would rush Apple and it may come out slightly sooner (though probably not) and if it did you wouldn't get the Apple quality, you'd get rushed $hi?
7457 with twise the size of the L2 cache might help those G4 system without L3 with more than just the clock speed.
However the time for the G4 is running out. I took a look at Roxios home page (on Win applications, see below). and video is not the only thing. Some current games have problems with the G4 and it will only get worse.
A new G4 will make the current underpowered G4 less bad for a while as a stop gap measure for the lowpower IBM 970 to appear.
For the upgrades the bus is a limitation. A G3/800 is not that much faster than a G3/500 on a 50 MHz bus (10x-16x) With current busses mostly in the 100-133 MHz range this will hamper the performance anyhow if the G4 by magic would reach 2 GHz today.
I expect one decent but not exciting upgrade of the Pbooks and iMacs. (about 30% faster CPUs fortified with bigger HD more RAM faster optical drives and graphics for added flavour). The real exitement will come the next time around...
Intel® Pentium 200-MHz or faster processor for audio; Intel Pentium III 500-MHz or faster for video authoring; Intel Pentium III 800MHz or faster required for analog MPEG capture and 1.6 GHz for real-time capture from DV
Well I'm sure Apple is already working quickly (though not rushing) to get the G5 together.
Let's hope so, ast3r3x. We definitely agree. By your Intel example, consumer/market demand obviously has a direct effect on product development cycles. It's a real shame that market power cannot make Moto produce stable 1.6Ghz 7457 chips or IBM crank out low-power 9nm 750's that will magically work in PowerBooks overnight.
Quote:
Originally posted by DrBoar
7457 with twise the size of the L2 cache might help those G4 system without L3 with more than just the clock speed.
However the time for the G4 is running out.
I definitely agree that a larger cache will improve the performance of the G4, on top of the clock speed increase due to the smaller process. However, I don't think the G4's time has run out just yet. I contend that a Ghz G4 will provide plenty of power to the majority of Mac users for the next year, if not two years.
Quote:
For the upgrades the bus is a limitation.
The bus is definitely a limitation. I'm typing this on an iBook/500 with a lousy 66Mhz bus and can't wait to move to a faster processor and bus. I hope the rumor that the PPC 7457 can run with a 200Mhz bus are true. But I fear we'll be stuck at 167Mhz for this revision.
Quote:
Intel Pentium III 800MHz or faster required for analog MPEG capture and 1.6 GHz for real-time capture from DV
Did you realize that the requirement is for a Pentium III (3, three), not the latest Pentium IV? Sure, applications require more and more hardware performance. But for a lot of users a current G4, even a fast G3, or (heaven forbid) a Celeron is just fine.
I'll be perfectly happy with a 1Ghz Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook G4, so long as it features a PPC 7457 chip.
Hopefully we will see a 15.4" (widescreen) PowerBook running at 1.3 Ghz with built in firewire 800, bluetooth, and airport extreeme this september. A backlit keyboard would be nice to, but not likely IMO.
Future Proof is good...but lets not get crazy. I wouldn't want to have spent any extra money on my IIGS just because it came with a USB port. HardDrives seem like they are FAR from using FW800...and burners don't. Information simply can't be fetched that quickly from HD's, CD whatevers and digital cameras. I guess if you could daisy chain enough devices it would be useful, but how many devices that would be maxing it out would you be carrying around with your laptop
Prior to the last updates for the both iMacs and PowerMacs, Apple had deals on refurbished machines for each on the "Specials" page of their website; and seemed to have a lot of machines available considering that the specials were up for weeks. Some folks postulated that these machines were not actually refurbished, but that this was used to clear inventory on new products with having an official sale.
Why am I boring you with this? After almost two months of nothing but iPods on the refurb page, Apple now has deals on iMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, and eMacs.
It may mean little or nothing but it's food for thought.
Prior to the last updates for the both iMacs and PowerMacs, Apple had deals on refurbished machines for each on the "Specials" page of their website; and seemed to have a lot of machines available considering that the specials were up for weeks. Some folks postulated that these machines were not actually refurbished, but that this was used to clear inventory on new products with having an official sale.
Why am I boring you with this? After almost two months of nothing but iPods on the refurb page, Apple now has deals on iMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, and eMacs.
It may mean little or nothing but it's food for thought.
Interesting...so does that mean the 19th or Paris Expo?
Future Proof is good...but lets not get crazy. I wouldn't want to have spent any extra money on my IIGS just because it came with a USB port. HardDrives seem like they are FAR from using FW800...and burners don't. Information simply can't be fetched that quickly from HD's, CD whatevers and digital cameras. I guess if you could daisy chain enough devices it would be useful, but how many devices that would be maxing it out would you be carrying around with your laptop
It's not "crazy", it is smart. The next laptop I buy needs to last me at least 2 years. I may not need FW 800 now, but who says it might not be useful 18 months from now. Apple certainly thinks that it would be a good thing to have on their G5s and on their 17inch powerbook. Are they crazy? Or do they know a few things that you don't.
this coming from the person who is telling everyone that the only G5 it makes sense to buy is the dual 2Ghz and if you don't you're an idiot.
Heh...*shifitly looks around*
Not stupid...just doesn't make sense for me and I would think most others. I just think if you can come up with the money you are vastly better off with 2GHz.
When necessary you need to go all out and when not needed don't. If you have a problem with my logic please explain, because I am biased to my logic because of my situation. Tell me yours and why not.
If a G4, hoped for specs/features (bold items are maybes, the rest are probables):
[not utterly improbable specs]
If a G5, I'll be blown away like the guy in the TV ad.
I just had an image of a guy in a black turtleneck being blown into a streetlamp. The camera follows a trail back into a coffeehouse, with upended tables everywhere, pictures danging crookedly on the walls, and staff staring dumbly out through the hole in the plate glass storefront. Toward the back, through a cloud of dust, a 17" PowerBook sits on a small table; the chair is knocked several feet away.
You won't get those specs for $1,999. If nothing else, there needs to be a greater feature difference between the low and high lines. 1MB L3, 32MB GPU, AirPort Extreme support but no card included, and I would bet three fingers off my left hand that the low-end model won't ship with more than 256MB of RAM. This is APPLE we're talking about.
You won't get those specs for $1,999. If nothing else, there needs to be a greater feature difference between the low and high lines. 1MB L3, 32MB GPU, AirPort Extreme support but no card included, and I would bet three fingers off my left hand that the low-end model won't ship with more than 256MB of RAM. This is APPLE we're talking about.
Yep, that sounds about right. Something like this, maybe:
$1,999.00
15.4-inch TFT Display
1.2 GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA/133
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
32MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
USB 2.0
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth optional
DVI & S-Video out
I left off the resolution since I'm not sure what it'll be. Some surprises could be in store. Maybe all models will have SuperDrives or maybe the prices will be lower. Maybe speeds will top out at 1 and 1.3 GHz. Maybe there'll be 2MB DDR L3 cache in all models. Maybe the bus speed will max out at 167 MHz as stated by Mot. Even so, the L2 bus is 200 MHz so that memory could indeed use DDR400 SRAM.
Ferchrissakes, cable is on the fritz here so I had to dig up a pair of rabbit ears and the only thing I can pull in well is Miss Teen USA. Now you know why I'm futzing with the specs.
Gee, could my cable company have been taken down by that MSBlast worm? Why does anyone put up with that MS carp?
Maybe all models will have SuperDrives or maybe the prices will be lower.
I think prices right now are about as low as we can hope, especially if we're talking about a new case and new features. Apple knows there's demand for this product and they'll try to get as much as they can, at least for the first few months. I just hope prices don't go UP.
Scary reminder: prices on the 667/800 line went up by $300 and $200 respectively over the 550/667s.
Comments
Originally posted by Cold Turkey
...Even if everybody stopped buying gasoline-powered cars today, the major car manufacturers couldn't offer us supersonic flying cars tomorrow. Any given technology will be ready when it is ready, not a moment sooner. Poor sales of a revised G4-based PowerBook lineup will not advance PowerBook G5 availability by even a day.
Cold Turkey
Well I'm sure Apple is already working quickly (though not rushing) to get the G5 together.
I agree with you, but it isn't necessarily true, I mean look at Intel. They could have come out with a consumer 64-bit chip by now but they havn't because there wasn't a big enough demand for it, and they can continue making money without it. You move alot faster when your dodging between the feet of a Dinosaur.
Edit: I don't think I made it clear enough how much I agree with you, I was just saying us bocotting buying would rush Apple and it may come out slightly sooner (though probably not) and if it did you wouldn't get the Apple quality, you'd get rushed $hi?
However the time for the G4 is running out. I took a look at Roxios home page (on Win applications, see below). and video is not the only thing. Some current games have problems with the G4 and it will only get worse.
A new G4 will make the current underpowered G4 less bad for a while as a stop gap measure for the lowpower IBM 970 to appear.
For the upgrades the bus is a limitation. A G3/800 is not that much faster than a G3/500 on a 50 MHz bus (10x-16x) With current busses mostly in the 100-133 MHz range this will hamper the performance anyhow if the G4 by magic would reach 2 GHz today.
I expect one decent but not exciting upgrade of the Pbooks and iMacs. (about 30% faster CPUs fortified with bigger HD more RAM faster optical drives and graphics for added flavour). The real exitement will come the next time around...
Intel® Pentium 200-MHz or faster processor for audio; Intel Pentium III 500-MHz or faster for video authoring; Intel Pentium III 800MHz or faster required for analog MPEG capture and 1.6 GHz for real-time capture from DV
Originally posted by ast3r3x
Well I'm sure Apple is already working quickly (though not rushing) to get the G5 together.
Let's hope so, ast3r3x.
Originally posted by DrBoar
7457 with twise the size of the L2 cache might help those G4 system without L3 with more than just the clock speed.
However the time for the G4 is running out.
I definitely agree that a larger cache will improve the performance of the G4, on top of the clock speed increase due to the smaller process. However, I don't think the G4's time has run out just yet. I contend that a Ghz G4 will provide plenty of power to the majority of Mac users for the next year, if not two years.
For the upgrades the bus is a limitation.
The bus is definitely a limitation. I'm typing this on an iBook/500 with a lousy 66Mhz bus and can't wait to move to a faster processor and bus. I hope the rumor that the PPC 7457 can run with a 200Mhz bus are true. But I fear we'll be stuck at 167Mhz for this revision.
Intel Pentium III 800MHz or faster required for analog MPEG capture and 1.6 GHz for real-time capture from DV
Did you realize that the requirement is for a Pentium III (3, three), not the latest Pentium IV? Sure, applications require more and more hardware performance. But for a lot of users a current G4, even a fast G3, or (heaven forbid) a Celeron is just fine.
I'll be perfectly happy with a 1Ghz Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook G4, so long as it features a PPC 7457 chip.
Cold Turkey
Originally posted by ast3r3x
Why is FW800 important to everyone? FW400 isn't fast enough for you? I don't see a reason for FW800 on a laptop...yet.
Agreed. BUT the key work is "yet". If you are going to spend that much on a laptop why not have it be as future proof as possible.
That being said there is very little use for fireiwre 800 in a laptop right now.
Why am I boring you with this? After almost two months of nothing but iPods on the refurb page, Apple now has deals on iMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, and eMacs.
It may mean little or nothing but it's food for thought.
Originally posted by neumac
Prior to the last updates for the both iMacs and PowerMacs, Apple had deals on refurbished machines for each on the "Specials" page of their website; and seemed to have a lot of machines available considering that the specials were up for weeks. Some folks postulated that these machines were not actually refurbished, but that this was used to clear inventory on new products with having an official sale.
Why am I boring you with this? After almost two months of nothing but iPods on the refurb page, Apple now has deals on iMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks, and eMacs.
It may mean little or nothing but it's food for thought.
Interesting...so does that mean the 19th or Paris Expo?
Originally posted by ast3r3x
Why is FW800 important to everyone? FW400 isn't fast enough for you? I don't see a reason for FW800 on a laptop...yet.
this coming from the person who is telling everyone that the only G5 it makes sense to buy is the dual 2Ghz and if you don't you're an idiot.
Originally posted by ast3r3x
Future Proof is good...but lets not get crazy. I wouldn't want to have spent any extra money on my IIGS just because it came with a USB port. HardDrives seem like they are FAR from using FW800...and burners don't. Information simply can't be fetched that quickly from HD's, CD whatevers and digital cameras. I guess if you could daisy chain enough devices it would be useful, but how many devices that would be maxing it out would you be carrying around with your laptop
It's not "crazy", it is smart. The next laptop I buy needs to last me at least 2 years. I may not need FW 800 now, but who says it might not be useful 18 months from now. Apple certainly thinks that it would be a good thing to have on their G5s and on their 17inch powerbook. Are they crazy? Or do they know a few things that you don't.
Originally posted by applenut
this coming from the person who is telling everyone that the only G5 it makes sense to buy is the dual 2Ghz and if you don't you're an idiot.
Heh...*shifitly looks around*
Not stupid...just doesn't make sense for me and I would think most others. I just think if you can come up with the money you are vastly better off with 2GHz.
When necessary you need to go all out and when not needed don't. If you have a problem with my logic please explain, because I am biased to my logic because of my situation. Tell me yours and why not.
<flattery so reply isn't as heated>
applenut is my favorite mod
</flattery so rely isn't as heated>
If a G4, hoped for specs/features (bold items are maybes, the rest are probables):
$2599
15.4-inch TFT Display
GITD keyboard
1.4 GHz G4
200 MHz bus
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
2MB DDR L3 cache
60GB Ultra ATA/133
2x DVD-R SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out
If a G5, I'll be blown away like the guy in the TV ad.
Let's just hope for the best!
15.4-inch TFT Display
GITD keyboard
1.2 GHz G4 7457
200 MHz bus
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
2MB DDR L3 cache
40GB Ultra ATA/133
ComboDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out
USB 2.0
MSKR
Originally posted by Rolo
If a G4, hoped for specs/features (bold items are maybes, the rest are probables):
[not utterly improbable specs]
If a G5, I'll be blown away like the guy in the TV ad.
I just had an image of a guy in a black turtleneck being blown into a streetlamp. The camera follows a trail back into a coffeehouse, with upended tables everywhere, pictures danging crookedly on the walls, and staff staring dumbly out through the hole in the plate glass storefront. Toward the back, through a cloud of dust, a 17" PowerBook sits on a small table; the chair is knocked several feet away.
Originally posted by Masker
$1999
15.4-inch TFT Display
GITD keyboard
1.2 GHz G4 7457
200 MHz bus
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
2MB DDR L3 cache
40GB Ultra ATA/133
ComboDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out
USB 2.0
You won't get those specs for $1,999. If nothing else, there needs to be a greater feature difference between the low and high lines. 1MB L3, 32MB GPU, AirPort Extreme support but no card included, and I would bet three fingers off my left hand that the low-end model won't ship with more than 256MB of RAM. This is APPLE we're talking about.
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
You won't get those specs for $1,999. If nothing else, there needs to be a greater feature difference between the low and high lines. 1MB L3, 32MB GPU, AirPort Extreme support but no card included, and I would bet three fingers off my left hand that the low-end model won't ship with more than 256MB of RAM. This is APPLE we're talking about.
Yep, that sounds about right. Something like this, maybe:
$1,999.00
15.4-inch TFT Display
1.2 GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA/133
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
32MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
USB 2.0
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth optional
DVI & S-Video out
I left off the resolution since I'm not sure what it'll be. Some surprises could be in store. Maybe all models will have SuperDrives or maybe the prices will be lower. Maybe speeds will top out at 1 and 1.3 GHz. Maybe there'll be 2MB DDR L3 cache in all models. Maybe the bus speed will max out at 167 MHz as stated by Mot. Even so, the L2 bus is 200 MHz so that memory could indeed use DDR400 SRAM.
Ferchrissakes, cable is on the fritz here so I had to dig up a pair of rabbit ears and the only thing I can pull in well is Miss Teen USA. Now you know why I'm futzing with the specs.
Gee, could my cable company have been taken down by that MSBlast worm? Why does anyone put up with that MS carp?
Originally posted by Rolo
Maybe all models will have SuperDrives or maybe the prices will be lower.
I think prices right now are about as low as we can hope, especially if we're talking about a new case and new features. Apple knows there's demand for this product and they'll try to get as much as they can, at least for the first few months. I just hope prices don't go UP.
Scary reminder: prices on the 667/800 line went up by $300 and $200 respectively over the 550/667s.
Backlit Keyboard
15.4-inch TFT Display
1Ghz/1.2 GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/133
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
32MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800 (if it doesn't add price haha)
USB 2.0
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth optional
DVI & S-Video out