The worst case scenario is they announce nothing. I'm proposing a paring down of models only in the interest that it makes Apple appear as though they are doing something. For all intents and purposes, I should recuse my previous suggestion and say it would be more along these lines:
12-in. moves to a 1GHz G4, prices same
867 Ti dropped, 1 GHz Ti moves down to $1999 price point
17-in. moves down to the $2,599 price point.
Like everyone else, I too would like to see the whole shift towards Aluminum and faster G4s. But given what we know about the G4 7457 and its ETA, this is something we may get. We know that the 17-inch prices are doing down - not up as evidenced by competing notebooks with 17-in screens - therefore, I suggest that this may be the temp fix until a more welcome upgrade is upon us in the fall.
Man, they've just gone SIX and EIGHT months (and counting) with no upgrades/revs/tweaks to their PowerBooks.
What in the world would make you think they'll release something tomorrow (July 16) and then, again, in the fall (3-4 months away, tops).
Have they ever done that?
I'll not only eat my hat, but I'll make a nice little sauce to dip it in and film the whole thing to show on the web.
I'm pretty sure that whatever we get now (or within a few weeks or whatever) is going to stick around for AT LEAST 6 months, if history is any indication. I don't want them putting out a "stopgap" product, only to replace it with something much better in 2-3 months, knowing that was their plan all along. That's how you piss people off!
Just wait (what's another month or two, at this point?) and do it right (7457).
My three scenarios, in order of preference:
1. PowerBook G5 (haha...since that's not happening, let's skip to #2...)
2. PowerBooks with 7457s, available ASAP (even September...as long as we KNOW)
3. Nothing
4. Bump the current stuff with the current chip. Ugh...
(yes, I'd rather NOTHING happen than to get a measly little bump and have another 6-9 months of machines that burn your thighs and forearms and less-than-ideal bus and cache specs (knowing what we now know about the '57).
#4 might very well happen...and I'll buy an iBook and revisit the whole PowerBook thing sometime in mid-2004. Screw it...
What do you mean in your reference to the '57's ETA? It's ready earlier than expected, right? It was originally Q4, now said to be Q3. I'm not 100% sure what "ready" means in this regard ("ready" to be tested, "ready" to be used, "ready" to be shipped immdiately, etc.)?
Like everyone else, I too would like to see the whole shift towards Aluminum and faster G4s. But given what we know about the G4 7457 and its ETA, this is something we may get.
Just what, exactly, do we know about the 7457 and its ETA, hmmm?
Someone posted a link to this over at a MacRumors forum:
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
Jeez, right after posting the above, ThinkSecret has a new take on why resellers were asked to take down the 12" and 17" posters. They say it has to do with Yao's contract. Smells fishy to me because of the timing. Nice cover story.
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
That article says volume shipments of chips using that process are being shipped in volume. It also says that the process is used in the 7455 and the 7457 - so the 7457 might not be shipping in volume yet, though it may be. On the other hand if this low-k process allows more efficient 7455's which is what the article seems to claim, then it would be some improvement.
Just a little informal poll: wouldn't you be willing to wait another 1-2 months (go ahead and get the announcement so you can quit agonizing over it and be placing your orders) if you knew that the result of that additional 1-2 months meant a nice G4 PowerBook safely/easily into the 1.3GHz range, faster bus, bigger cache, uses less juice, runs cooler, etc.?
Personally, no. A 1.3GHz G4 would perform perhaps 10% better than a 1GHz G4. I would trade that for having an aluminum 15.4" G4 now.
One way to consider the market is to say there are two kinds of customers; those who are driven by specs and will wait for a new machine and those who have a serious need for something decent which is available now. Obviously, people are still buying the Ti PB. It is not a bad machine. I would like to see some added features (backlit keyboard, better airport reception, airport extreme, refreshed graphics card, better quality LCD, Al case) and I would trade off performance for availability.
I'd rather have a cooler, longer-lasting, more efficient chip under the hood (in addition to all the things you mention, of course). I hear these things get quite toasty.
I'm not a "spec whore" as much as I know that something better is out there and I hate to imagine dropping $2599 on something not as good, that's all.
I'd rather have a cooler, longer-lasting, more efficient chip under the hood (in addition to all the things you mention, of course). I hear these things get quite toasty.
I'm not a "spec whore" as much as I know that something better is out there and I hate to imagine dropping $2599 on something not as good, that's all.
You'd better hope they find some 300 RPM HD's for your new Powerbook. In my experience, the HD is the major source of the 'toastiness'.
I hear ya' on the 'something not as good', though.
I'd sell my 12" Powerbook in an instant if the 15" is released with built in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme.
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
Doesn't really say that 7457 (0.13µ chip) are shipping in volume its says that it is shipping chips with it's new SOI technology at .18µ and 0.13µ are to ship later this year.
Quote:Scientists from Motorola's DigitalDNA? Laboratories in Austin, Texas originally developed the low-k process at the 0.13 micron technology node. The process was reverse transferred into a high performance 0.18 micron SOI process for immediate product shipments. Motorola has been shipping products manufactured at the 0.18 micron SOI process since the first quarter 2003 and plans to ship at 0.13 micron later this year.
Personally, no. A 1.3GHz G4 would perform perhaps 10% better than a 1GHz G4. I would trade that for having an aluminum 15.4" G4 now.
How did you arrive at 10%? Simply by virtue of a 300 MHz speed increase, 1.3 is 30% faster but since the cache size is doubled, the speed increase would be more like 40% greater. If there's a faster bus with faster memory and maybe even a faster HD, performance could be 50% better. If the SuperDrive is 2x instead of 1x for DVD burning, um, well, I think that's certainly worth waiting for.
How did you arrive at 10%? Simply by virtue of a 300 MHz speed increase, 1.3 is 30% faster but since the cache size is doubled, the speed increase would be more like 40% greater. If there's a faster bus with faster memory and maybe even a faster HD, performance could be 50% better. If the SuperDrive is 2x instead of 1x for DVD burning, um, well, I think that's certainly worth waiting for.
Sorry, but xbench is down for a while till they rehost the site. Try looking at this when they get back on line. I recall looking at this and being surprised that the scores did not increase very much after some Apple product saw clock increases.
I agree that if you isolate problems to the CPU and if the code and data are all in cache then performance will roughly track clock speed.
In the real world where the CPU must read from and write to RAM and the HD then the overall speed increase will be less than the increase in clock speed.
I think that if we got a new PB with a minimal clock speed improvement but a better GPU and a faster HD we would see very substantial overall speed improvement.
If the keynote is 1030 ET, it'd be 330 PM in UK... right?
Just one more day (mere hours, really) until we know whether we'll get new Powerbooks soon.
For me, the most compelling evidence 'for' is that the product cycle is long overdue for the update, and the G5's probably won't be ready until early next year, so something has to squeeze in between.
And frankly, I'd get the 7457 tomorrow rather than wait for the 970 at MWSF... I was surprised to learn how modest the G5's speed increase was (well, considering all the bluster about how the chip 'destroyed the megahertz gap...)
I dunno, as for seeing our long-awaited new Aluminum friends emerge tomorrow, in the magic 8 ball that is the Apple rumors community, the little triangle seems to come up somewhere between 'Not Likely' and 'Ask Again Later.' Will I have a new Powerbook before xmas? 'Reply Hazy.' Alas...
But imagine the sigh of relief from all the people who've been predicting AlBook 15s 'real soon now' for over half a year.
And the poll still shows a healthy majority of people think today'll be the day... although they also seem to agree that it'll be brought by leprechauns, which is just silly.
Do you ever wonder if Apple hires someone to read these forums and notify management when demand is so pent-up that they might lose a large portion of marketshare due to Mac devotees' heads exploding?
<singing with pscates like 4 pages ago> The waaiiting is the haardest part... </tra la>
Comments
- 12-in. moves to a 1GHz G4, prices same
- 867 Ti dropped, 1 GHz Ti moves down to $1999 price point
- 17-in. moves down to the $2,599 price point.
Like everyone else, I too would like to see the whole shift towards Aluminum and faster G4s. But given what we know about the G4 7457 and its ETA, this is something we may get. We know that the 17-inch prices are doing down - not up as evidenced by competing notebooks with 17-in screens - therefore, I suggest that this may be the temp fix until a more welcome upgrade is upon us in the fall.Man, they've just gone SIX and EIGHT months (and counting) with no upgrades/revs/tweaks to their PowerBooks.
What in the world would make you think they'll release something tomorrow (July 16) and then, again, in the fall (3-4 months away, tops).
Have they ever done that?
I'll not only eat my hat, but I'll make a nice little sauce to dip it in and film the whole thing to show on the web.
I'm pretty sure that whatever we get now (or within a few weeks or whatever) is going to stick around for AT LEAST 6 months, if history is any indication. I don't want them putting out a "stopgap" product, only to replace it with something much better in 2-3 months, knowing that was their plan all along. That's how you piss people off!
Just wait (what's another month or two, at this point?) and do it right (7457).
My three scenarios, in order of preference:
1. PowerBook G5 (haha...since that's not happening, let's skip to #2...)
2. PowerBooks with 7457s, available ASAP (even September...as long as we KNOW)
3. Nothing
4. Bump the current stuff with the current chip. Ugh...
(yes, I'd rather NOTHING happen than to get a measly little bump and have another 6-9 months of machines that burn your thighs and forearms and less-than-ideal bus and cache specs (knowing what we now know about the '57).
#1 ain't gonna happen.
#2 very well could.
#3 can't happen, they couldn't let it
#4 might very well happen...and I'll buy an iBook and revisit the whole PowerBook thing sometime in mid-2004. Screw it...
What do you mean in your reference to the '57's ETA? It's ready earlier than expected, right? It was originally Q4, now said to be Q3. I'm not 100% sure what "ready" means in this regard ("ready" to be tested, "ready" to be used, "ready" to be shipped immdiately, etc.)?
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Like everyone else, I too would like to see the whole shift towards Aluminum and faster G4s. But given what we know about the G4 7457 and its ETA, this is something we may get.
Just what, exactly, do we know about the 7457 and its ETA, hmmm?
Someone posted a link to this over at a MacRumors forum:
Motorola press release
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
Originally posted by Rolo
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
Throw in those G5 xserves as well.
Im impressed with the 7457 as a low power G4 chip - but it looks seriously second rate to the 970.
Where are those rosery beads when you need them! 970 for the PB's, keep those 7457's for the iBooks/iMacs, please!
Originally posted by Rolo
Just what, exactly, do we know about the 7457 and its ETA, hmmm?
Someone posted a link to this over at a MacRumors forum:
Motorola press release
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
That article says volume shipments of chips using that process are being shipped in volume. It also says that the process is used in the 7455 and the 7457 - so the 7457 might not be shipping in volume yet, though it may be. On the other hand if this low-k process allows more efficient 7455's which is what the article seems to claim, then it would be some improvement.
(Sorry for the too frequent posts, I'm just a bit too excited and going nuts.)
Originally posted by pscates
Just a little informal poll: wouldn't you be willing to wait another 1-2 months (go ahead and get the announcement so you can quit agonizing over it and be placing your orders) if you knew that the result of that additional 1-2 months meant a nice G4 PowerBook safely/easily into the 1.3GHz range, faster bus, bigger cache, uses less juice, runs cooler, etc.?
Personally, no. A 1.3GHz G4 would perform perhaps 10% better than a 1GHz G4. I would trade that for having an aluminum 15.4" G4 now.
One way to consider the market is to say there are two kinds of customers; those who are driven by specs and will wait for a new machine and those who have a serious need for something decent which is available now. Obviously, people are still buying the Ti PB. It is not a bad machine. I would like to see some added features (backlit keyboard, better airport reception, airport extreme, refreshed graphics card, better quality LCD, Al case) and I would trade off performance for availability.
I'd rather have a cooler, longer-lasting, more efficient chip under the hood (in addition to all the things you mention, of course). I hear these things get quite toasty.
I'm not a "spec whore" as much as I know that something better is out there and I hate to imagine dropping $2599 on something not as good, that's all.
Originally posted by pscates
Tomato, tomahto...
I'd rather have a cooler, longer-lasting, more efficient chip under the hood (in addition to all the things you mention, of course). I hear these things get quite toasty.
I'm not a "spec whore" as much as I know that something better is out there and I hate to imagine dropping $2599 on something not as good, that's all.
You'd better hope they find some 300 RPM HD's for your new Powerbook.
I hear ya' on the 'something not as good', though.
I'd sell my 12" Powerbook in an instant if the 15" is released with built in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme.
Originally posted by Rolo
Just what, exactly, do we know about the 7457 and its ETA, hmmm?
Someone posted a link to this over at a MacRumors forum:
Motorola press release
So, volume shipments since June 2. That was about 6 weeks ago. Plenty of time to build up stock so that at least some models of the newly updated AlBooks can be ready to ship immediately.
I fully expect new PBs to be announced Wed., 7/16. Maybe they'll be in stores by this weekend. Worst case, they're announced at Siggraph a couple weeks hence. I think it'd be better to announce new PBs now and updated iMacs the end of the month.
As for Seybold, how about updated displays and a Cinema treatment for the 17"?
Doesn't really say that 7457 (0.13µ chip) are shipping in volume its says that it is shipping chips with it's new SOI technology at .18µ and 0.13µ are to ship later this year.
Quote:Scientists from Motorola's DigitalDNA? Laboratories in Austin, Texas originally developed the low-k process at the 0.13 micron technology node. The process was reverse transferred into a high performance 0.18 micron SOI process for immediate product shipments. Motorola has been shipping products manufactured at the 0.18 micron SOI process since the first quarter 2003 and plans to ship at 0.13 micron later this year.
Originally posted by neutrino23
Personally, no. A 1.3GHz G4 would perform perhaps 10% better than a 1GHz G4. I would trade that for having an aluminum 15.4" G4 now.
How did you arrive at 10%? Simply by virtue of a 300 MHz speed increase, 1.3 is 30% faster but since the cache size is doubled, the speed increase would be more like 40% greater. If there's a faster bus with faster memory and maybe even a faster HD, performance could be 50% better. If the SuperDrive is 2x instead of 1x for DVD burning, um, well, I think that's certainly worth waiting for.
Originally posted by Rolo
How did you arrive at 10%? Simply by virtue of a 300 MHz speed increase, 1.3 is 30% faster but since the cache size is doubled, the speed increase would be more like 40% greater. If there's a faster bus with faster memory and maybe even a faster HD, performance could be 50% better. If the SuperDrive is 2x instead of 1x for DVD burning, um, well, I think that's certainly worth waiting for.
Sorry, but xbench is down for a while till they rehost the site. Try looking at this when they get back on line. I recall looking at this and being surprised that the scores did not increase very much after some Apple product saw clock increases.
I agree that if you isolate problems to the CPU and if the code and data are all in cache then performance will roughly track clock speed.
In the real world where the CPU must read from and write to RAM and the HD then the overall speed increase will be less than the increase in clock speed.
I think that if we got a new PB with a minimal clock speed improvement but a better GPU and a faster HD we would see very substantial overall speed improvement.
This is not to argue against speed bumps.
Originally posted by Wifty
Does anyone know what time the keynote is UK time?
17:30 London Time (5:30 p.m.)
8 Hour time difference from PDT to London. Anyone feel free to correct me.
Just one more day (mere hours, really) until we know whether we'll get new Powerbooks soon.
For me, the most compelling evidence 'for' is that the product cycle is long overdue for the update, and the G5's probably won't be ready until early next year, so something has to squeeze in between.
And frankly, I'd get the 7457 tomorrow rather than wait for the 970 at MWSF... I was surprised to learn how modest the G5's speed increase was (well, considering all the bluster about how the chip 'destroyed the megahertz gap...)
I dunno, as for seeing our long-awaited new Aluminum friends emerge tomorrow, in the magic 8 ball that is the Apple rumors community, the little triangle seems to come up somewhere between 'Not Likely' and 'Ask Again Later.' Will I have a new Powerbook before xmas? 'Reply Hazy.' Alas...
But imagine the sigh of relief from all the people who've been predicting AlBook 15s 'real soon now' for over half a year.
And the poll still shows a healthy majority of people think today'll be the day... although they also seem to agree that it'll be brought by leprechauns, which is just silly.
Do you ever wonder if Apple hires someone to read these forums and notify management when demand is so pent-up that they might lose a large portion of marketshare due to Mac devotees' heads exploding?
<singing with pscates like 4 pages ago> The waaiiting is the haardest part... </tra la>
I think the keynot starts at 9.30 am ET in NY.
Check here: http://www.macworldexpo.com/macworld...x.cvn?ID=10254
New York is ET = GMT -5
England is GMT
Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden,... is GMT +1
That means 2.30 pm in the UK and 3.30 pm for the others.
EDIT: You can check the ET time here: http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java
I, for once, have pushed back my buying to january/february in the hope we will then see a G5 in the powerbooks.