I'm getting downright despondent over this. I've got a new dead iBook. Apple gave it to me as a replacement for my other new dead iBook. I've been waiting to trade it in on a new PB. I'd be fine with the iBook if it'd just work. I don't want to buy an old Ti. Way too many problems with it. Sure, it's a pretty good machine but I'd rather have an AlBook. I think it'd be absurd for Apple to wait until Sept. for an update. It's horrible that Apple has to still be at the mercy of Motorola. The 7457 has to be ready by now so I'm still hopeful that the new PBs will be out sometime this month.
You know, I wonder if now's the time to write that PowerPC emulator I've wanted to have a stab at. I mean, there are some really nice Thinkpads, and if anything, I prefer them to what Apple's producing (if only because I don't like trackpads much), and given it doesn't look like there's an improvement on the PowerBook coming soon...
Hey, YOU guys (some of you) chose to get get yourselves all torqued up, even though the evidence (no Jobs keynote, no Apple Store activity, open/no security trade booth, etc.) said otherwise.
Don't freak out NOW and start entertaining thoughts of bolting the platform.
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
You know, I wonder if now's the time to write that PowerPC emulator I've wanted to have a stab at. I mean, there are some really nice Thinkpads, and if anything, I prefer them to what Apple's producing (if only because I don't like trackpads much), and given it doesn't look like there's an improvement on the PowerBook coming soon...
Heh, no. There's two problems in your reasoning here. First, there is no such thing as a "really nice" ThinkPad. There are not-so-bad ThinkPads, but they're still all PC notebooks - somewhat ugly (though better than Dells and Toshibas), heavy, low battery life, thick, and generally lacking the fit and finsih of a PowerBook. (Yes, even the Centrino line doesn't cut it - most Centrino laptops try to approach the TiBook but fail in so many ways.)
Secondly, a PowerPC emulator on x86 will not run anything fast. Among other reasons, the PPC has 32 GPRs, and x86 has, well, 8. This means that on any given emulated register access there is a three in four chance that you will need to swap out your native register with a location in memory (because this emulated register isn't stored in an x86 register). On a typical three-argument instruction with two of the arguments being the same register, there would be a 93.75% chance of needing to swap out registers. Of course, this estimate sucks in some ways (ignoring that previous instructions may have already referenced the right registers, though the somewhat high level of ILP on typical PPC code may negate this), but also is very optimistic in others (you'll want to use at least one register for tracking what's going on in your emulator). Of course, you could use memory for your registers, but now you're quickly using up your L1 data cache - a very scare commodity on the P4.
And let's not forget how bad the x86 floating point unit is. Emulating ppc floating point code on x86 would be an exersize in extreme frustration at best; and much of Quartz is floating-point (eg its use of subpixel positioning).
Of course, you can go ahead and try, but look forward to running 8.1 like it was on a 6100
Apple friggin' sucks! Where the heck are the new PowerBooks?
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Apple friggin' sucks! Where the heck are the new PowerBooks?
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Escher
I thought you recently obtained a PowerBook (iBook? 12" Al ?). Are you looking to upgrade to something? Second PowerBook?
Of course, you can go ahead and try, but look forward to running 8.1 like it was on a 6100
Good points (well, except for the Thinkpad, the only "bad" part of a Thinkpad is the Wintel arch IMNSHO. While I fully understand Apple's desire to lock their OS to products built by them, it's times like these I wish things were different)
Ok, there's solution two: Write code to decompile the whole of Jaguar, and then recompile it for x86. Not that that'll be simple of course, I suspect I'll have to spend a whole weekend on it. Oh wait, what am I saying, I already have the source for Darwin, and some of it even works on x86, I should be able to get it done in a matter of hours ;-)
In all seriousness, I need a new laptop, and a 15.4" AlBook with a half decent CPU was something I was considering spending money on. If I can't get "what I want" - the nearest thing being a paint-peeling slow-system-bus fractionally-not-the-screen-I-want, the next best option is "what's cheap", which I guess is the 12" iBook. It's just a little disappointing, and I suspect Apple loses out too as I bet the margins are higher on their PowerBooks.
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
Look at it that way and relax.
OK, I'll try. <sigh> I know there were warning signs but this really sucks. This situation isn't particularly good for the stock, either. The sooner Apple comes out with a PB refresh, along with the long anticipated PB15 AlBook, the sooner Apple will rake in the revenues for a great quarter. Maybe the G5 will carry the quarter anyway. It isn't that portable, though, even with the handles.
Look, the 15" PowerBook Ti was outdated (that's an understatement but people object ot the word obsolete) the moment the 12" and 17" models were introduced back in January. Aside from the screen size, the entry-level 12" model eclipses it in every way for crying out loud. That's just not right so everyone logically expects the 15" model to be updated within a reasonable amount of time. That time passed in March and here we are in the middle of July and still no update in sight. Aside from the PowerMac G5 I don't think there has ever been a product more anticipated in the history of Apple. It is so overdue that the whole situation has become surreal. It's hard to believe.
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows? All I know is I'm sick of waiting for Apple to get their act together, all the while seeing one manufacturer after onther come out with 15.4" models. I can only wait so much longer...
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Escher
I wish you a very pleasant vacation Escher. Perhaps I'll take one with the money I just saved today. I wonder where Steve takes his vacations?
The worst part about it is Apple' lauding of the greatness of 12" and 17"
Is the 15" a bad model? No.
But it is Apple that runs around touting Airport Extreme, BlueTooth and the other virtues of the AlBooks.
Apple for crimany's sake.
That is salt in the wound.
By releasing the 12" and 17" so featured, while not one to bank on, it is surely implies the 15" is due for the same. Not if... but when. And 8 months is a long fissure of when. The 15" is the sweet spot in size and price, yet languishes spec-wise compared to it's stable mates, the 12 and 17.
It is really hard to bring yourself to buy it when even the manufacturer points to X, Y and Z as to why this and that is superior over previous offerings.... then does zilch to update part of the line. Especially when the 12"/17" address the very issues that make the 15" unsuited for your uses (WiFi first and foremost in my case)
Yeah, Yeah, "...if you need it now, buy it now...yada yada"
It doesn't make the sting of the 'sucker' factor any less felt by those dropping 2.5k+...
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows?
As annoying as the waiting is, there could be one simple reason (whether you consider it good or not is up to you) why a 15" AlBook isn't here yet: Waiting for a speed bump to be possible, which probably means waiting for the 7457.
I can see how Apple would be very reluctant to release a new 15" PowerBook that was still only 1 GHz like the old 15" PowerBook, even if a new model did add features like Airport Extreme, Aluminum enclosure, Bluetooth, etc.
Speed bumps using the current 7455 version of the G4 would be awful for battery life and for operating your laptop without wearing over mits.
Waiting to update the 15" to Aluminum with a speed bump at the same time certainly makes a whole lot more sense to me than speculating about Apple doing something really stupid like killing off all forms of 15" PowerBook.
I thought you recently obtained a PowerBook (iBook? 12" Al ?). Are you looking to upgrade to something? Second PowerBook?
No, no, neutrino23. I'm still holding out with my "old" but perfectly funtional iBook/500/CD. I've told myself that I wouldn't upgrade to a sub-Ghz 'Book. And I have too many reservations about the Rev.A 12-inch PowerBook, i.e. only 640MB max RAM, excessive heat (compared to iBook), no DVI-out, no L3 cache, only 867Mhz processor. I expect Apple to address several of these concerns in a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook. So I'm waiting....
Quote:
Originally posted by Cubit
I wish you a very pleasant vacation Escher. Perhaps I'll take one with the money I just saved today. I wonder where Steve takes his vacations?
I'll leave my Pismo under my pillow and hope....
LOL, Cubit. Without any doubt, it will be nice to visit with my family in France and Switzerland, and catch some sun, food and culture on the riviera. In the grand scheme of things, that's more important than a petty PowerBook update. Thank goodness I don't have a high-MP digicam and there is still a GB and a half left on my old iBook's HDD to store pictures. That's all I'll really need for the next month anyway.
As you can tell, I was planning to bring along my iBook, as usual. But now that you mention it, maybe I should leave it under my pillow for good luck, just like you.
Finally, I bet that Jobs spends his vacations in a very private place. That's why we don't know anything about them, or his wife and kids. I'm actually surprised no Mac fanatic has tracked down and photographed his house yet. Where are the Mac stalkerazzi?
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows? All I know is I'm sick of waiting for Apple to get their act together, all the while seeing one manufacturer after onther come out with 15.4" models. I can only wait so much longer...
I'm about as pissed as anyone about the 15" situation but I don't think for a minute that it's getting killed off. The 12" is too small, the 17" is too big, and the 15" is juuuussst right.
I'm sure the only reason for the delay is the 7457, although it ought to have been in full production for weeks now. The longer we have to wait, though, the more we expect in this revision. The head sage at MOSR sez we can expect USB2 to be included. What's next, an optical audio port?
No, I seem to remember a summer when WallStreet PowerBooks were harder to find than 5-legged, fire-breathing unicorns. There was literally nothing available for something like 3 or 4 weeks, and then the PDQ's came out.
I freely admit that I could have the timeframe wrong, slightly, but I do remember much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the virtual disappearance of the PowerBook line.
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
Look at it that way and relax.
I agree, just like my earlier posts, at WORST we get 7457's soon enough, although Ill keep a small wager on the G5.
Still, I think the main reason people are PISSED, is WHY did Apple not update the 15 to Al when the 12/17's were introduced, we would not be in this state - real dumb!.
Further, did anyone notice Apple's financial results - iMacs sales are dropping off badly!, My take - stagnate CPU updates!, these 7457's are needed now for this model as much as the PowerBooks.
I assume that the PB's will be updated as soon as there is sufficient quantity of 7457's, and if there are no updates till Paris, then Im predicting a G5 PowerBook then. \
Comments
(Ducks)
Don't freak out NOW and start entertaining thoughts of bolting the platform.
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
Look at it that way and relax.
Originally posted by peharri
You know, I wonder if now's the time to write that PowerPC emulator I've wanted to have a stab at. I mean, there are some really nice Thinkpads, and if anything, I prefer them to what Apple's producing (if only because I don't like trackpads much), and given it doesn't look like there's an improvement on the PowerBook coming soon...
Heh, no. There's two problems in your reasoning here. First, there is no such thing as a "really nice" ThinkPad. There are not-so-bad ThinkPads, but they're still all PC notebooks - somewhat ugly (though better than Dells and Toshibas), heavy, low battery life, thick, and generally lacking the fit and finsih of a PowerBook. (Yes, even the Centrino line doesn't cut it - most Centrino laptops try to approach the TiBook but fail in so many ways.)
Secondly, a PowerPC emulator on x86 will not run anything fast. Among other reasons, the PPC has 32 GPRs, and x86 has, well, 8. This means that on any given emulated register access there is a three in four chance that you will need to swap out your native register with a location in memory (because this emulated register isn't stored in an x86 register). On a typical three-argument instruction with two of the arguments being the same register, there would be a 93.75% chance of needing to swap out registers. Of course, this estimate sucks in some ways (ignoring that previous instructions may have already referenced the right registers, though the somewhat high level of ILP on typical PPC code may negate this), but also is very optimistic in others (you'll want to use at least one register for tracking what's going on in your emulator). Of course, you could use memory for your registers, but now you're quickly using up your L1 data cache - a very scare commodity on the P4.
And let's not forget how bad the x86 floating point unit is. Emulating ppc floating point code on x86 would be an exersize in extreme frustration at best; and much of Quartz is floating-point (eg its use of subpixel positioning).
Of course, you can go ahead and try, but look forward to running 8.1 like it was on a 6100
Apple friggin' sucks! Where the heck are the new PowerBooks?
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Escher
Originally posted by Escher
The thread's title says it all: Sick of waiting!
Apple friggin' sucks! Where the heck are the new PowerBooks?
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Escher
I thought you recently obtained a PowerBook (iBook? 12" Al ?). Are you looking to upgrade to something? Second PowerBook?
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
Of course, you can go ahead and try, but look forward to running 8.1 like it was on a 6100
Good points (well, except for the Thinkpad, the only "bad" part of a Thinkpad is the Wintel arch IMNSHO. While I fully understand Apple's desire to lock their OS to products built by them, it's times like these I wish things were different)
Ok, there's solution two: Write code to decompile the whole of Jaguar, and then recompile it for x86. Not that that'll be simple of course, I suspect I'll have to spend a whole weekend on it. Oh wait, what am I saying, I already have the source for Darwin, and some of it even works on x86, I should be able to get it done in a matter of hours ;-)
In all seriousness, I need a new laptop, and a 15.4" AlBook with a half decent CPU was something I was considering spending money on. If I can't get "what I want" - the nearest thing being a paint-peeling slow-system-bus fractionally-not-the-screen-I-want, the next best option is "what's cheap", which I guess is the 12" iBook. It's just a little disappointing, and I suspect Apple loses out too as I bet the margins are higher on their PowerBooks.
Originally posted by pscates
(snip)
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
Look at it that way and relax.
OK, I'll try. <sigh> I know there were warning signs but this really sucks. This situation isn't particularly good for the stock, either. The sooner Apple comes out with a PB refresh, along with the long anticipated PB15 AlBook, the sooner Apple will rake in the revenues for a great quarter. Maybe the G5 will carry the quarter anyway. It isn't that portable, though, even with the handles.
Yeah, its in New York. I'll shut up now.
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows? All I know is I'm sick of waiting for Apple to get their act together, all the while seeing one manufacturer after onther come out with 15.4" models. I can only wait so much longer...
Originally posted by Escher
The thread's title says it all: Sick of waiting!
(Snip)
Good thing I'm taking off on vacation for a couple of weeks. Hopefully Apple will finally get things moving and I'll be pleasantly surprised upon my return in mid-August.
Escher
I wish you a very pleasant vacation Escher. Perhaps I'll take one with the money I just saved today. I wonder where Steve takes his vacations?
I'll leave my Pismo under my pillow and hope....
Is the 15" a bad model? No.
But it is Apple that runs around touting Airport Extreme, BlueTooth and the other virtues of the AlBooks.
Apple for crimany's sake.
That is salt in the wound.
By releasing the 12" and 17" so featured, while not one to bank on, it is surely implies the 15" is due for the same. Not if... but when. And 8 months is a long fissure of when. The 15" is the sweet spot in size and price, yet languishes spec-wise compared to it's stable mates, the 12 and 17.
It is really hard to bring yourself to buy it when even the manufacturer points to X, Y and Z as to why this and that is superior over previous offerings.... then does zilch to update part of the line. Especially when the 12"/17" address the very issues that make the 15" unsuited for your uses (WiFi first and foremost in my case)
Yeah, Yeah, "...if you need it now, buy it now...yada yada"
It doesn't make the sting of the 'sucker' factor any less felt by those dropping 2.5k+...
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows?
As annoying as the waiting is, there could be one simple reason (whether you consider it good or not is up to you) why a 15" AlBook isn't here yet: Waiting for a speed bump to be possible, which probably means waiting for the 7457.
I can see how Apple would be very reluctant to release a new 15" PowerBook that was still only 1 GHz like the old 15" PowerBook, even if a new model did add features like Airport Extreme, Aluminum enclosure, Bluetooth, etc.
Speed bumps using the current 7455 version of the G4 would be awful for battery life and for operating your laptop without wearing over mits.
Waiting to update the 15" to Aluminum with a speed bump at the same time certainly makes a whole lot more sense to me than speculating about Apple doing something really stupid like killing off all forms of 15" PowerBook.
Originally posted by neutrino23
I thought you recently obtained a PowerBook (iBook? 12" Al ?). Are you looking to upgrade to something? Second PowerBook?
No, no, neutrino23. I'm still holding out with my "old" but perfectly funtional iBook/500/CD. I've told myself that I wouldn't upgrade to a sub-Ghz 'Book. And I have too many reservations about the Rev.A 12-inch PowerBook, i.e. only 640MB max RAM, excessive heat (compared to iBook), no DVI-out, no L3 cache, only 867Mhz processor. I expect Apple to address several of these concerns in a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook. So I'm waiting....
Originally posted by Cubit
I wish you a very pleasant vacation Escher. Perhaps I'll take one with the money I just saved today. I wonder where Steve takes his vacations?
I'll leave my Pismo under my pillow and hope....
LOL, Cubit.
As you can tell, I was planning to bring along my iBook, as usual. But now that you mention it, maybe I should leave it under my pillow for good luck, just like you.
Finally, I bet that Jobs spends his vacations in a very private place. That's why we don't know anything about them, or his wife and kids. I'm actually surprised no Mac fanatic has tracked down and photographed his house yet. Where are the Mac stalkerazzi?
Escher
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
(snip)
I am begining to think the 15" PowerBook is being killed off ala the Cube and only the 12" and 17" models will remain. Not a logical course of action for Apple to take? Sure, but then, introducing two new PowerBooks and leaving the best-selling one to rot for six months is not exactly logical either. Who knows? All I know is I'm sick of waiting for Apple to get their act together, all the while seeing one manufacturer after onther come out with 15.4" models. I can only wait so much longer...
I'm about as pissed as anyone about the 15" situation but I don't think for a minute that it's getting killed off. The 12" is too small, the 17" is too big, and the 15" is juuuussst right.
I'm sure the only reason for the delay is the 7457, although it ought to have been in full production for weeks now. The longer we have to wait, though, the more we expect in this revision. The head sage at MOSR sez we can expect USB2 to be included. What's next, an optical audio port?
Apparently the channel's starting to dry up, and that's usually a good sign - although Apple has let the channel go absolutely bone dry before.
Originally posted by Amorph
It occurred to me that Apple might really take the piss out of MacWorld Creative Pro by announcing a new lineup the Tuesday after the expo.
You know, I've been considering that idea too... but I'm afraid that I might be confusing irony with wishful thinking.
Originally posted by Amorph
Apparently the channel's starting to dry up, and that's usually a good sign - although Apple has let the channel go absolutely bone dry before.
when?
with the ipod 5gb?
Originally posted by gar
when?
with the ipod 5gb?
No, I seem to remember a summer when WallStreet PowerBooks were harder to find than 5-legged, fire-breathing unicorns. There was literally nothing available for something like 3 or 4 weeks, and then the PDQ's came out.
I freely admit that I could have the timeframe wrong, slightly, but I do remember much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the virtual disappearance of the PowerBook line.
Originally posted by pscates
This is actually a good thing: probably means Apple would - as I hoped yesterday - rather wait a bit and go with the 7457 chip.
So when the new PowerBooks DO come, you'll have a faster, cooler, more efficient machine with larger bus and cache.
Look at it that way and relax.
I agree, just like my earlier posts, at WORST we get 7457's soon enough, although Ill keep a small wager on the G5.
Still, I think the main reason people are PISSED, is WHY did Apple not update the 15 to Al when the 12/17's were introduced, we would not be in this state - real dumb!.
Further, did anyone notice Apple's financial results - iMacs sales are dropping off badly!, My take - stagnate CPU updates!, these 7457's are needed now for this model as much as the PowerBooks.
I assume that the PB's will be updated as soon as there is sufficient quantity of 7457's, and if there are no updates till Paris, then Im predicting a G5 PowerBook then.