any chance of keeping ponson for longer than the rest of this season...?
Most of the time, pre-deadline trades are for the long term, but who knows? Considering the players involved, I have to believe this is a long term deal.
My only question is: How kosher is it to trade away Kurt Ainsworth, who currently is out with a broken shoulder blade?
EDIT: ESPN dudes are saying it's a short term deal to make a WS run.
Most of the time, pre-deadline trades are for the long term, but who knows? Considering the players involved, I have to believe this is a long term deal.
My only question is: How kosher is it to trade away Kurt Ainsworth, who currently is out with a broken shoulder blade?
EDIT: ESPN dudes are saying it's a short term deal to make a WS run.
most of the time these deals are NOT long term. they are short term rent-a-player solutions. occasionally the team signs them after the trade if the player likes it there. but most of these trades are during the last year of contract, which is the case w/ ponson, so...we'll see if he decides to stay...
this is part of the risk of trading away a chunk of your future for a one-time run at the playoffs. a good example is the astros trade a few years ago when they got randy johnson. we traded away a big chunk of our future for a chance at the playoffs, but johnson gave us a false sense that he liked it in houston. he hated it here (i dont blame him--this city is crap), and never had any intention of staying. ponson might not want to stay in frisco, but we'll see...
and it sucks trading away ainsworth, one of the three potential future studs in the Gs rotation.
The Red Sox are going to overtake the Yankees, despite a good number of west coast games. They have the best offense in the American League and with their new pitching acquisitions, will be able to stay very competitive as long as people stay healthy.
The Red Sox were making good acquisitions this week while the Yankees were paying teams to get rid of guys. Very telling.
Not the last minute deadline deals, especially for pitchers. It's not like the easy pick-ups of Lofton and Goodwin last year. Sabean had to think long and hard about this deal, and considering how well he did in the AL East, he should be frickin' dynamite in Pac Bell Park without having to pitch to a DH. If he lives up to the hype BUT the Giants don't win the WS, then I think it would be hard for Sabean to let him go, and for Magowan not to foot the bill. Also note that Ponson is only 26 years old.
Not the last minute deadline deals, especially for pitchers.
sorry, but that is simply incorrect. most of the time that teams trade for a player (stellar pitcher especially) in the middle of the last year of the contract, the team doesnt expect to keep that player after the current season. dont expect ponson to be wearing a Frisco uniform next season--the odds are way against it. id guess that around 90% of trading-deadline deals are temporary solutions where the player walks away after the completion of the season.
sorry, but that is simply incorrect. most of the time that teams trade for a player (stellar pitcher especially) in the middle of the last year of the contract, the team doesnt expect to keep that player after the current season. dont expect ponson to be wearing a Frisco uniform next season--the odds are way against it. id guess that around 90% of trading-deadline deals are temporary solutions where the player walks away after the completion of the season.
yep, definitely
Boon to the Yankees. and ventura gone. Sad about that, I liked Ventura.... very nice and grounded guy who played hard and was underrated depsite his poor offensive numbers. made some big time plays this season when they were needed and also got some cluth hits.
Except if you look at the condition of the Giants pitching.
Schmidt: Giants ace
Rueter: went on the DL for the first time in career, shoulder strain reappeared today and he was scratched from his start
Foppert: 22-year old rookie...erratic starts
Williams: 21-year old rookie...phenomenal so far
The Giants could put him into arbitration at the end of the season, but why? Their farm system is pretty loaded right now, and Ponson probably won't be asking *that* much. I think they'd gladly pay 6-7M a year for a potential 20-game winner.
The Giants have had Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen, Moss, Ainsworth, Foppert, Williams, Powell, Zerbe, Brower all start games this year...That's 10 different pitchers starting games. They've been looking for a starter all year, so I think the chances of Ponson becoming a Giant for more than 2 months are very good.
Too bad for that. The Mariners were trying hard to land the "other" Boone. The media here claimed it was just about a done deal, too. I have a sneaking suspicion the Yankees grabbed him just to keep him away from the Mariners.
that's 6-7M more than the current payroll, which is already higher than magowan wants it to be. who gets cut this year? last year it was livan (no complaints here) and ortiz (a HUGE loss). so...? who shall it be to keep this new addition? unlike the yankees, the giants have a limited payroll.
Too bad for that. The Mariners were trying hard to land the "other" Boone. The media here claimed it was just about a done deal, too. I have a sneaking suspicion the Yankees grabbed him just to keep him away from the Mariners.
I think the Yankees are just feeling the Red Sox nipping at their heels, especially now that they have Suppan and Williamson. IIRC, the Mariners were in first place in the AL West around this time last year and they sat on their hands while everyone else was making trades.
that's 6-7M more than the current payroll, which is already higher than magowan wants it to be. who gets cut this year? last year it was livan (no complaints here) and ortiz (a HUGE loss). so...? who shall it be to keep this new addition? unlike the yankees, the giants have a limited payroll.
Let's see now...
JT Snow won't be a Giant next year. That's $7M saved.
I like Aurilia, but he's also possibly expendable. That's $6M.
Marvin Benard, God, maybe we can finally get rid of him. He makes $4.2M this year.
Santiago. $2M while Torrealba is currently making about the league minimum.
And dare I mention Robb Nen? He's a better closer than Worrell will ever be, but is Robb's $9M/year worth the premium over Worrell's $2M?
JT Snow won't be a Giant next year. That's $7M saved.
I like Aurilia, but he's also possibly expendable. That's $6M.
Marvin Benard, God, maybe we can finally get rid of him. He makes $4.2M this year.
And dare I mention Robb Nen? He's a better closer than Worrell will ever be, but is Robb's $9M/year worth the premium over Worrell's $2M?
who's playing first and short next year? we keep a pitcher at the expense of two positions. we have nothing in the system that is the calibur of aurilia, or even snow. if you say damon minor, i'll slap you. and nen is a possibility, but can see his contract restructured--at least i hope he stays somehow. so...now we have an at best 2nd-tier pitcher at the expense of two solid position players. this is hardly the signing of schmidt that we had last year...
oh, and cruz jr. isnt signed through next year. and is grissom? there are some more holes. sabean has his work cut out for him for next season. let's hope we win it all this time around, cause it's gonna be tough to be competitive again with all our holes next season...
hell, the way you talk about money not being an issue, maybe we can trade for that whiney ass a-rod.
who's playing first and short next year? we keep a pitcher at the expense of two positions. we have nothing in the system that is the calibur of aurilia, or even snow. if you say damon minor, i'll slap you. and nen is a possibility, but can see his contract restructured--at least i hope he stays somehow. so...now we have an at best 2nd-tier pitcher at the expense of two solid position players. this is hardly the signing of schmidt that we had last year...
oh, and cruz jr. isnt signed through next year. and is grissom? there are some more holes. sabean has his work cut out for him for next season. let's hope we win it all this time around, cause it's gonna be tough to be competitive again with all our holes next season...
hell, the way you talk about money not being an issue, maybe we can trade for that whiney ass a-rod.
First of all, Damon Minor has been with the Phillies since May. Second, why isn't it the same situation as Schmidt?
Snow's not going to be a Giant regardless. Both Feliz and Alfonzo are capable of playing first base. In addition, Francisco Santos and Cody Ransom are pretty much ready for the jump to the majors. If Aurilia goes, Neifi Perez is easily the same caliber defensively, and on the basepads.
And regarding Cruz...so what? The guy is hitting around .250 and headed downward. At least Alfonzo's AVG is heading up.
I'd say bye to Snow, Santiago and Benard. If the Giants can't find suitable replacements, then bye-bye Nen.
The Giants bullpen is completely overloaded right now too. And given the fact there are only 4 true starters for the Giants slated to be back next year and two of them are rookies, what other free agent pitcher are the Giants going to look at who might be cheaper? Magowan jujst has to bite the bullet. This all stems from the Russ Ortiz for Moss trade at the beginning of the year pretty much.
IIRC, the Mariners were in first place in the AL West around this time last year and they sat on their hands while everyone else was making trades.
YRC, and everyone in Seattle, especially the players, are still sore about it. They had clear needs to fill, and filled none of them - fading badly in the second half as a result. The players were already griping this week about the lack of moves, and it looks like an old journeyman shortstop is the extent of the help they're going to get. Not that the Yankees have had much to fear, historically, from the M's in the playoffs, but I'm sure George didn't mind snatching a bone from the jaws of a rival.
First of all, Damon Minor has been with the Phillies since May. Second, why isn't it the same situation as Schmidt?
Snow's not going to be a Giant regardless. Both Feliz and Alfonzo are capable of playing first base. In addition, Francisco Santos and Cody Ransom are pretty much ready for the jump to the majors. If Aurilia goes, Neifi Perez is easily the same caliber defensively, and on the basepads.
And regarding Cruz...so what? The guy is hitting around .250 and headed downward. At least Alfonzo's AVG is heading up.
I'd say bye to Snow, Santiago and Benard. If the Giants can't find suitable replacements, then bye-bye Nen.
The Giants bullpen is completely overloaded right now too. And given the fact there are only 4 true starters for the Giants slated to be back next year and two of them are rookies, what other free agent pitcher are the Giants going to look at who might be cheaper?
you missed my point, but stumbled into another. you admit that this will lead to a rebuilding year? most of our team is gone next year, except for bonds, alfonso, and durham. so...in a two year span, the entire positional lineup has been replaced except for bonds. next year is gonna be a tough time for giants fans. oh well...at least we got a great shot this year.
you missed my point, but stumbled into another. you admit that this will lead to a rebuilding year? most of our team is gone next year, except for bonds, alfonso, and durham. so...in a two year span, the entire positional lineup has been replaced except for bonds. next year is gonna be a tough time for giants fans. oh well...at least we got a great shot this year.
No, I don't think it's going to be a rebuilding year. I think the make up of the 2003 team was to bide time, but the team freakishly gelled and became a serious contender. I did all my worrying and crying in the last offseason. The 2002 team was by far more talented. And I have faith that out of Torcato, Valderrama, Santos, Ransom, etc. we'll get one valuable position player out of our farm system playing nearly full-time in 2004. Fact is we're currently paying some players a lot more than they're worth. Marvin Benard for $4.2M! Come on! Snow, I like the guy...he lives about a mile from me, but come on!
And in two years, Bonds might not be a Giant either.
Peter Magowan's not John York (49ers), he'll spend the extra cash if Sabean asks for it.
I doubt the Yankees getting Boone had too much to do with the Mariners though the Red Sox might have been a factor. The most commonly rumored deal had a 3 way with Boone to Seattle, Garcia to Boston and pitching prospects to Cincinnati. Garcia has been erratic but that could have been a huge pickup for them, he could also go say 10-2 for the rest of the season. And Boone would have helped the Mariners while the Yankees would have missed out on an upgrade at 3B. From that standpoint it could have been a bit of a defensive trade for the Yankees. I'm sure Steinbrenner just felt he had to do something as well given all the stuff the Red Sox have been doing.
I'm not that enamored with Aaron Boone. He's a solid player and undoubtedly a n upgrade over an over the hill Ventura and the disaster that is Jeff Cirillo. But he's got a rather meager .310 OBP and only a .408 SLG on the road this year. Pretty much in the .750 zone for career OPS, which is not bad but not truly all-star caliber by any stretch either in today's era. Not sure about his zone rating but he's got a .953 career fielding %, ick. It would ahve been nice to have him but the Yankees paid a steep price. But they can afford to. Kind of reminds me of the Denny Neagle trade a few years ago, I think Boone is a comparable quality player to Neagle (pre-Colorado), and that is being somewhat favorable to Boone.
Still, I would ahve liked to have seen the Mariners pick up Batista just because he was about the only other 3B available and was reportedly available for cheap. A shame also that they didn't get a second LHP for the pen. Ridiculous as they could also be had for cheap. It would have been great to upgrade the hole in LF, but Giles seemed to be the only truly excellent option out there and with the Pirates demanding that someone eat Kendall's contract as well that never seemed a realistic option for the Mariners. Guys like Rondell White or Jeff Conine or something like that would be an upgrade over Winn but not markedly so. Even taking all of that into consideration though, it is frustrating seeing that the Mariners are obviously being very stingy for the team with the second highest revenues in baseball. It's becoming the widespread belief that they are run totally for profit and with little consideration for championships and that is not a good impression to give fans who just built you the most expensive baseball stadium and who provide the highest local ratings of any team in baseball along with leading the league in attendance recently.
Perhaps the question should be, what dollar range and which free agents should the Giants be looking at for next year? They're going to need one more non-sophomore/rookie starter and with the dilution of talent in the MLB these days, it's going to be slim pickins in the offseason. They might as well start with the guy they got to get them through the last 2 months of the previous season.
If the Giants are going to let 2004 go to the dogs, then attendance will plummet, and the Magowan Group's going too have even less money to work with. It's a delicate balance between spending enough money to get into the postseason and satisfying the SF fans. The difference between a $6M and $3M pitcher translates into $93M vs $90M in the grand scheme of things? If it means finishing first in the division or a wild card birth and sell-out crowds, it's worth it.
The Braves actually have the bats to do some damage this year. Too bad their middle relief seems to be sucking. It'll be an interesting playoffs for Braves fans. Hopefully it'll be different than years past where they could pitch with the best of 'em but couldn't score on a little league team. Who knows what'll come of it? But the Giants are overrated.
Braves out of the NL and Bo Sox from the AL. Braves in 6.
Perhaps the question should be, what dollar range and which free agents should the Giants be looking at for next year? They're going to need one more non-sophomore/rookie starter and with the dilution of talent in the MLB these days, it's going to be slim pickins in the offseason. They might as well start with the guy they got to get them through the last 2 months of the previous season.
If the Giants are going to let 2004 go to the dogs, then attendance will plummet, and the Magowan Group's going too have even less money to work with. It's a delicate balance between spending enough money to get into the postseason and satisfying the SF fans. The difference between a $6M and $3M pitcher translates into $93M vs $90M in the grand scheme of things? If it means finishing first in the division or a wild card birth and sell-out crowds, it's worth it.
yes, of course. but no organization can support a championship caliber team every single year, except for maybe the yankees (for obvious reasons). the giants are losing a HUGE chunk of their team after this season, and coupling that with an ageing barry bonds, dont have much to work with in terms of building around. bonds cant keep this pace forever and is bound to be less productive someday--this leaves the team with even less offense. alfonso and durham arent gonna cut it. and the rookies from the minors certainly arent gonna make an impact anytime soon. the pitching staff will be schmidt, an aging rueter, and a couple rookies. yes, it would be nice to keep ponson, but w/ him already rejecting a 3 year, $15 million deal (from a team he reportedly liked playing for, mind you!), it will take even more money. even if we do manage to keep him, he isnt exactly a stud pitcher--#3, maybe 2 at best. a 3.77 ERA, which is the best he's ever had by far, isn't impressing me.
all in all, the team will be solid, but nothing spectacular. the rooks will hopefully develop and impress, but i dont count on much from them for another couple years, especially since we lost the best of them, ainsworth.
w/ all the money made available because of the vacancies after this year, who will they pick up? are there any good free agents after this year? anyone who you can build an offense around for years to come? bonds is gonna retire sooner rather than later, and when that happens, Frisco will need a new stud, or, as you said, "attendance will plummet" in Pac Bell. the only guy i can see in that situation would be Vlad, but i'm a wishful thinker...
dealing with pitching, which needs only one spot to fill, is one thing...but you still neglect the two-thirds of the position spots which need filling. the guys you listed earlier arent gonna cut it--you claim that next years team is gonna be great, but then you go on to list a bunch of minor leaguers out of an offensively anemic minor league system. barry might be the best offensive player of our generation, or even all time, but he cant do everything.
we better get a ring this year cause next year would take a "2002 Angels type season" to win anything.
Comments
Originally posted by _ alliance _
any chance of keeping ponson for longer than the rest of this season...?
Most of the time, pre-deadline trades are for the long term, but who knows? Considering the players involved, I have to believe this is a long term deal.
My only question is: How kosher is it to trade away Kurt Ainsworth, who currently is out with a broken shoulder blade?
EDIT: ESPN dudes are saying it's a short term deal to make a WS run.
Originally posted by Eugene
Most of the time, pre-deadline trades are for the long term, but who knows? Considering the players involved, I have to believe this is a long term deal.
My only question is: How kosher is it to trade away Kurt Ainsworth, who currently is out with a broken shoulder blade?
EDIT: ESPN dudes are saying it's a short term deal to make a WS run.
most of the time these deals are NOT long term. they are short term rent-a-player solutions. occasionally the team signs them after the trade if the player likes it there. but most of these trades are during the last year of contract, which is the case w/ ponson, so...we'll see if he decides to stay...
this is part of the risk of trading away a chunk of your future for a one-time run at the playoffs. a good example is the astros trade a few years ago when they got randy johnson. we traded away a big chunk of our future for a chance at the playoffs, but johnson gave us a false sense that he liked it in houston. he hated it here (i dont blame him--this city is crap), and never had any intention of staying. ponson might not want to stay in frisco, but we'll see...
and it sucks trading away ainsworth, one of the three potential future studs in the Gs rotation.
The Red Sox were making good acquisitions this week while the Yankees were paying teams to get rid of guys. Very telling.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
most of the time these deals are NOT long term.
Not the last minute deadline deals, especially for pitchers. It's not like the easy pick-ups of Lofton and Goodwin last year. Sabean had to think long and hard about this deal, and considering how well he did in the AL East, he should be frickin' dynamite in Pac Bell Park without having to pitch to a DH. If he lives up to the hype BUT the Giants don't win the WS, then I think it would be hard for Sabean to let him go, and for Magowan not to foot the bill. Also note that Ponson is only 26 years old.
But now that I've said that...
Originally posted by Eugene
Not the last minute deadline deals, especially for pitchers.
sorry, but that is simply incorrect. most of the time that teams trade for a player (stellar pitcher especially) in the middle of the last year of the contract, the team doesnt expect to keep that player after the current season. dont expect ponson to be wearing a Frisco uniform next season--the odds are way against it. id guess that around 90% of trading-deadline deals are temporary solutions where the player walks away after the completion of the season.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
sorry, but that is simply incorrect. most of the time that teams trade for a player (stellar pitcher especially) in the middle of the last year of the contract, the team doesnt expect to keep that player after the current season. dont expect ponson to be wearing a Frisco uniform next season--the odds are way against it. id guess that around 90% of trading-deadline deals are temporary solutions where the player walks away after the completion of the season.
yep, definitely
Boon to the Yankees. and ventura gone. Sad about that, I liked Ventura.... very nice and grounded guy who played hard and was underrated depsite his poor offensive numbers. made some big time plays this season when they were needed and also got some cluth hits.
Originally posted by applenut
yep, definitely
Except if you look at the condition of the Giants pitching.
Schmidt: Giants ace
Rueter: went on the DL for the first time in career, shoulder strain reappeared today and he was scratched from his start
Foppert: 22-year old rookie...erratic starts
Williams: 21-year old rookie...phenomenal so far
The Giants could put him into arbitration at the end of the season, but why? Their farm system is pretty loaded right now, and Ponson probably won't be asking *that* much. I think they'd gladly pay 6-7M a year for a potential 20-game winner.
The Giants have had Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen, Moss, Ainsworth, Foppert, Williams, Powell, Zerbe, Brower all start games this year...That's 10 different pitchers starting games. They've been looking for a starter all year, so I think the chances of Ponson becoming a Giant for more than 2 months are very good.
Originally posted by applenut
Boon to the Yankees. and ventura gone.
Too bad for that. The Mariners were trying hard to land the "other" Boone. The media here claimed it was just about a done deal, too. I have a sneaking suspicion the Yankees grabbed him just to keep him away from the Mariners.
Originally posted by Towel
Too bad for that. The Mariners were trying hard to land the "other" Boone. The media here claimed it was just about a done deal, too. I have a sneaking suspicion the Yankees grabbed him just to keep him away from the Mariners.
I think the Yankees are just feeling the Red Sox nipping at their heels, especially now that they have Suppan and Williamson. IIRC, the Mariners were in first place in the AL West around this time last year and they sat on their hands while everyone else was making trades.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
that's 6-7M more than the current payroll, which is already higher than magowan wants it to be. who gets cut this year? last year it was livan (no complaints here) and ortiz (a HUGE loss). so...? who shall it be to keep this new addition? unlike the yankees, the giants have a limited payroll.
Let's see now...
JT Snow won't be a Giant next year. That's $7M saved.
I like Aurilia, but he's also possibly expendable. That's $6M.
Marvin Benard, God, maybe we can finally get rid of him. He makes $4.2M this year.
Santiago. $2M while Torrealba is currently making about the league minimum.
And dare I mention Robb Nen? He's a better closer than Worrell will ever be, but is Robb's $9M/year worth the premium over Worrell's $2M?
Originally posted by Eugene
Let's see now...
JT Snow won't be a Giant next year. That's $7M saved.
I like Aurilia, but he's also possibly expendable. That's $6M.
Marvin Benard, God, maybe we can finally get rid of him. He makes $4.2M this year.
And dare I mention Robb Nen? He's a better closer than Worrell will ever be, but is Robb's $9M/year worth the premium over Worrell's $2M?
who's playing first and short next year? we keep a pitcher at the expense of two positions. we have nothing in the system that is the calibur of aurilia, or even snow. if you say damon minor, i'll slap you. and nen is a possibility, but can see his contract restructured--at least i hope he stays somehow. so...now we have an at best 2nd-tier pitcher at the expense of two solid position players. this is hardly the signing of schmidt that we had last year...
oh, and cruz jr. isnt signed through next year. and is grissom? there are some more holes. sabean has his work cut out for him for next season. let's hope we win it all this time around, cause it's gonna be tough to be competitive again with all our holes next season...
hell, the way you talk about money not being an issue, maybe we can trade for that whiney ass a-rod.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
who's playing first and short next year? we keep a pitcher at the expense of two positions. we have nothing in the system that is the calibur of aurilia, or even snow. if you say damon minor, i'll slap you. and nen is a possibility, but can see his contract restructured--at least i hope he stays somehow. so...now we have an at best 2nd-tier pitcher at the expense of two solid position players. this is hardly the signing of schmidt that we had last year...
oh, and cruz jr. isnt signed through next year. and is grissom? there are some more holes. sabean has his work cut out for him for next season. let's hope we win it all this time around, cause it's gonna be tough to be competitive again with all our holes next season...
hell, the way you talk about money not being an issue, maybe we can trade for that whiney ass a-rod.
First of all, Damon Minor has been with the Phillies since May. Second, why isn't it the same situation as Schmidt?
Snow's not going to be a Giant regardless. Both Feliz and Alfonzo are capable of playing first base. In addition, Francisco Santos and Cody Ransom are pretty much ready for the jump to the majors. If Aurilia goes, Neifi Perez is easily the same caliber defensively, and on the basepads.
And regarding Cruz...so what? The guy is hitting around .250 and headed downward. At least Alfonzo's AVG is heading up.
I'd say bye to Snow, Santiago and Benard. If the Giants can't find suitable replacements, then bye-bye Nen.
The Giants bullpen is completely overloaded right now too. And given the fact there are only 4 true starters for the Giants slated to be back next year and two of them are rookies, what other free agent pitcher are the Giants going to look at who might be cheaper? Magowan jujst has to bite the bullet. This all stems from the Russ Ortiz for Moss trade at the beginning of the year pretty much.
Originally posted by Eugene
IIRC, the Mariners were in first place in the AL West around this time last year and they sat on their hands while everyone else was making trades.
YRC, and everyone in Seattle, especially the players, are still sore about it. They had clear needs to fill, and filled none of them - fading badly in the second half as a result. The players were already griping this week about the lack of moves, and it looks like an old journeyman shortstop is the extent of the help they're going to get. Not that the Yankees have had much to fear, historically, from the M's in the playoffs, but I'm sure George didn't mind snatching a bone from the jaws of a rival.
Originally posted by Eugene
First of all, Damon Minor has been with the Phillies since May. Second, why isn't it the same situation as Schmidt?
Snow's not going to be a Giant regardless. Both Feliz and Alfonzo are capable of playing first base. In addition, Francisco Santos and Cody Ransom are pretty much ready for the jump to the majors. If Aurilia goes, Neifi Perez is easily the same caliber defensively, and on the basepads.
And regarding Cruz...so what? The guy is hitting around .250 and headed downward. At least Alfonzo's AVG is heading up.
I'd say bye to Snow, Santiago and Benard. If the Giants can't find suitable replacements, then bye-bye Nen.
The Giants bullpen is completely overloaded right now too. And given the fact there are only 4 true starters for the Giants slated to be back next year and two of them are rookies, what other free agent pitcher are the Giants going to look at who might be cheaper?
you missed my point, but stumbled into another. you admit that this will lead to a rebuilding year? most of our team is gone next year, except for bonds, alfonso, and durham. so...in a two year span, the entire positional lineup has been replaced except for bonds. next year is gonna be a tough time for giants fans. oh well...at least we got a great shot this year.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
you missed my point, but stumbled into another. you admit that this will lead to a rebuilding year? most of our team is gone next year, except for bonds, alfonso, and durham. so...in a two year span, the entire positional lineup has been replaced except for bonds. next year is gonna be a tough time for giants fans. oh well...at least we got a great shot this year.
No, I don't think it's going to be a rebuilding year. I think the make up of the 2003 team was to bide time, but the team freakishly gelled and became a serious contender. I did all my worrying and crying in the last offseason. The 2002 team was by far more talented. And I have faith that out of Torcato, Valderrama, Santos, Ransom, etc. we'll get one valuable position player out of our farm system playing nearly full-time in 2004. Fact is we're currently paying some players a lot more than they're worth. Marvin Benard for $4.2M! Come on! Snow, I like the guy...he lives about a mile from me, but come on!
And in two years, Bonds might not be a Giant either.
Peter Magowan's not John York (49ers), he'll spend the extra cash if Sabean asks for it.
I'm not that enamored with Aaron Boone. He's a solid player and undoubtedly a n upgrade over an over the hill Ventura and the disaster that is Jeff Cirillo. But he's got a rather meager .310 OBP and only a .408 SLG on the road this year. Pretty much in the .750 zone for career OPS, which is not bad but not truly all-star caliber by any stretch either in today's era. Not sure about his zone rating but he's got a .953 career fielding %, ick. It would ahve been nice to have him but the Yankees paid a steep price. But they can afford to. Kind of reminds me of the Denny Neagle trade a few years ago, I think Boone is a comparable quality player to Neagle (pre-Colorado), and that is being somewhat favorable to Boone.
Still, I would ahve liked to have seen the Mariners pick up Batista just because he was about the only other 3B available and was reportedly available for cheap. A shame also that they didn't get a second LHP for the pen. Ridiculous as they could also be had for cheap. It would have been great to upgrade the hole in LF, but Giles seemed to be the only truly excellent option out there and with the Pirates demanding that someone eat Kendall's contract as well that never seemed a realistic option for the Mariners. Guys like Rondell White or Jeff Conine or something like that would be an upgrade over Winn but not markedly so. Even taking all of that into consideration though, it is frustrating seeing that the Mariners are obviously being very stingy for the team with the second highest revenues in baseball. It's becoming the widespread belief that they are run totally for profit and with little consideration for championships and that is not a good impression to give fans who just built you the most expensive baseball stadium and who provide the highest local ratings of any team in baseball along with leading the league in attendance recently.
Perhaps the question should be, what dollar range and which free agents should the Giants be looking at for next year? They're going to need one more non-sophomore/rookie starter and with the dilution of talent in the MLB these days, it's going to be slim pickins in the offseason. They might as well start with the guy they got to get them through the last 2 months of the previous season.
If the Giants are going to let 2004 go to the dogs, then attendance will plummet, and the Magowan Group's going too have even less money to work with. It's a delicate balance between spending enough money to get into the postseason and satisfying the SF fans. The difference between a $6M and $3M pitcher translates into $93M vs $90M in the grand scheme of things? If it means finishing first in the division or a wild card birth and sell-out crowds, it's worth it.
Braves out of the NL and Bo Sox from the AL. Braves in 6.
Originally posted by Eugene
alliance:
Perhaps the question should be, what dollar range and which free agents should the Giants be looking at for next year? They're going to need one more non-sophomore/rookie starter and with the dilution of talent in the MLB these days, it's going to be slim pickins in the offseason. They might as well start with the guy they got to get them through the last 2 months of the previous season.
If the Giants are going to let 2004 go to the dogs, then attendance will plummet, and the Magowan Group's going too have even less money to work with. It's a delicate balance between spending enough money to get into the postseason and satisfying the SF fans. The difference between a $6M and $3M pitcher translates into $93M vs $90M in the grand scheme of things? If it means finishing first in the division or a wild card birth and sell-out crowds, it's worth it.
yes, of course. but no organization can support a championship caliber team every single year, except for maybe the yankees (for obvious reasons). the giants are losing a HUGE chunk of their team after this season, and coupling that with an ageing barry bonds, dont have much to work with in terms of building around. bonds cant keep this pace forever and is bound to be less productive someday--this leaves the team with even less offense. alfonso and durham arent gonna cut it. and the rookies from the minors certainly arent gonna make an impact anytime soon. the pitching staff will be schmidt, an aging rueter, and a couple rookies. yes, it would be nice to keep ponson, but w/ him already rejecting a 3 year, $15 million deal (from a team he reportedly liked playing for, mind you!), it will take even more money. even if we do manage to keep him, he isnt exactly a stud pitcher--#3, maybe 2 at best. a 3.77 ERA, which is the best he's ever had by far, isn't impressing me.
all in all, the team will be solid, but nothing spectacular. the rooks will hopefully develop and impress, but i dont count on much from them for another couple years, especially since we lost the best of them, ainsworth.
w/ all the money made available because of the vacancies after this year, who will they pick up? are there any good free agents after this year? anyone who you can build an offense around for years to come? bonds is gonna retire sooner rather than later, and when that happens, Frisco will need a new stud, or, as you said, "attendance will plummet" in Pac Bell. the only guy i can see in that situation would be Vlad, but i'm a wishful thinker...
dealing with pitching, which needs only one spot to fill, is one thing...but you still neglect the two-thirds of the position spots which need filling. the guys you listed earlier arent gonna cut it--you claim that next years team is gonna be great, but then you go on to list a bunch of minor leaguers out of an offensively anemic minor league system. barry might be the best offensive player of our generation, or even all time, but he cant do everything.
we better get a ring this year cause next year would take a "2002 Angels type season" to win anything.