Yeah, right. I think it unlikely that Apple would announce anything next week with one week to go until the Paris expo, unless the products are ready to ship the same day.
It is apparent that there are very few PowerBooks available to purchase right now. So yes, if new PowerBooks were available for immediate shipping and the features weren't worth bragging about, they might well be introduced a week before the expo. But then what would Steve talk about? Perhaps it's time for one of those new "digital devices" we've been expecting for a long time.
It is apparent that there are very few PowerBooks available to purchase right now. So yes, if new PowerBooks were available for immediate shipping and the features weren't worth bragging about, they might well be introduced a week before the expo. But then what would Steve talk about? Perhaps it's time for one of those new "digital devices" we've been expecting for a long time.
I think Apple Expo is gonna be mostly about Panther.
Even if the new PowerBook update kicks ass and is not lackluster (G4 7457 up to 1.3 GHz with backlit keyboard on all models, L3 cache even on the 12 inch), it still wouldn't be Apple Expo material since it's not a G5 or a case redesign.
Yeah, right. I think it unlikely that Apple would announce anything next week with one week to go until the Paris expo, unless the products are ready to ship the same day.
And if the top speed will be a 1.25 Ghz G4 (according to Appleinsider) then they are using the 7455 chip, not the 7457 chip. You know, if IBM is on track with the mobile G5 chips as suggested then Apple can announce PowerBook G5s in January. So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
And if the top speed will be a 1.25 Ghz G4 (according to Appleinsider) then they are using the 7455 chip, not the 7457 chip. You know, if IBM is on track with the mobile G5 chips as suggested then Apple can announce PowerBook G5s in January. So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Damn straight! I have an iBook to hold me off, screw the Powerbook G4, bring on the Powerbook G5!
Well, sad to say my 15" PB was suppose to ship 9/5/03 (today) but has been bumped to 9/12/03 ........ This is a very sad day indeed folks ..... especially when I ordered it last Thursday ........ Those bastards!!!
Word for word here is what they said .....
Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted: PBG4 15.2/1GHZ/512/60/CMBO/AP/LL
**WARNING I AM IMMENSELY FRUSTRATED WAITING FOR THE NEW !15 INCH POWERBOOK**
IF after all this time all they can put in the new powerbooks are 1.25 G4's than why not instead put 1 gigahertz G5's yes 1 which is even less than the 1.2 lower end of the G5 I am saying underclock the Biatch if power is the problem a 1 gig G5 will outperform the G4... oh hell just release the same damn thing in aluminum casing for less money and I would bite at this point.... from reading this damn site I thought the 15 inch powerbooks were gonna be out months ago... all this freaking waiting... why did I ever read this site YOU BASTARDS!!
(insert slight bit of sarcarsm--- however I am really pissed.... I wish I just bought the old clunker)
... I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Wait if you can. Some of us have no Mac or have old equipment that needs upgrading NOW.
With the channel as dry as it is now I think Apple will release this as soon as possible. Also, September is the end of the fiscal quarter. Even one extra week of shipments could add $10M or $20M to revenue for the quarter.
...recent rumors that have pin-pointed Motorola for failing to deliver sufficient quantities of the PowerPC 7457 to support a successful product launch.
According to the source, Apple management feels that supplies of the faster chips are now ample and the new units could full-fill backorders and be shipping in quantity by mid to late September.
This indicates that the new powerbooks will indeed be 7457. However, then it says
Quote:
Included in the new breed of PowerBooks is said to be a 1.25 GHz aluminum 15
The 1.25Ghz implies a 7455. So this doesn't add up.
Could it be that the 15 inch may be 1.25GH and the 17 inch will max out at 1.3GHz. Or maybe Apple is somehow under-clocking 7457 a little to get improved battery life or something (like if they get 6.2 hours at 1.3Ghz, but can get 7 hours at 1.25GHz, from a marketing perspective, it makes sense to sacrifice .05Ghz in order to get a Centrino crushing 7 hours of battery life).
AI second page claims new Powerbooks next Monday or Tuesday:
"Apple may announce and start taking orders for a revamped line of PowerBook G4s as early as next week, one source tells AppleInsider. The tip comes amongst recent recent rumors that have pin-pointed Motorola for failing to deliver sufficient quantities of the PowerPC 7457 to support a successful product launch.
According to the source, Apple management feels that supplies of the faster chips are now ample and the new units could full-fill backorders and be shipping in quantity by mid to late September. Included in the new breed of PowerBooks is said to be a 1.25 GHz aluminum 15" model that sports a back-lit keyboard, ports on the side (as opposed to the rear), and an updated track pad and mouse button.
Sources could not confirm a date or time for the official announcement, but did mention September 9th or 10th as likely candidates. It should be noted that the deployment schedule for the aforementioned units has slipped several times over the past month, while channel inventory of several configurations has remained depleted. Meanwhile, the initial packaging and marketing material for the new portables was said to have been completed over a month ago."
I have one word that will probably sum all of that up ..... as Paul had stated previously : Horseshit!
The clock speed doesn't imply anything, other than perhaps the bus speed.
If the bus is staying at 167MHz, then the closest you can get to 1.3GHz is 1.25GHz (with a 7.5:1 clock ratio). Why would the bus stay at 167MHz? Partly because Mot hasn't said the 7457's bus can clock higher than that; but since that hasn't stopped Apple before, the main reason would be that Apple can drop the 7457 in with zero changes to the current motherboard. The revision then revolves around case, CPU, HDD, optical, and GPU - all stuff that can be upgraded without much work at all.
The bulk of the work would involve bringing the 17"'s features down to the 15", and (to whatever extent) the 12".
That's what I'm betting on for the next release. It would be a substantial upgrade involving a minimum of work for Apple engineers (basically none for the 17" since its upgrades would all be drop-in, little to none for the 12" depending on what they end up doing), which allows them to concentrate on the G5 PB and the G4 iBook.
I can't help but point out, once more, that no-one should be surprised that a chip that was expected to ship in quantity in October ends up shipping in quantity in October. If Apple gets a good supply before then, bully for Motorola. But that would put them ahead of the schedule they've offered since January at the latest.
In both articles, go to the "Electrical and Thermal Characteristics" section and scroll down a bit until you actually see the tables for the typical and maximum power usage (page 15 on the 7455 chart, page 14 on the 7457 chart). If that's to be believed, a 7457 at 1 GHz actually uses a bit more power than a 7455, not less. That's probably due to the extra L2 cache. The main benefit from the die shrink on the 7457 is probably going to be heat reduction, not power saving.
That's not to say that Apple couldn't still gain battery life. Newer batteries and video chipsets might be more efficient. But I suspect that the only reason for a delay was because Apple didn't want CPU fans blasting at full speed all the time.
I almost think they would take orders next week just to calm people down, but god knows when the damn things would ship. Between these forums and personal contact, Apple has to know people are not happy about the update time for 15" books --- I've personally told my rep three times in the past ten days that I'm really not happy to be faced with buying 10-month old hardware.
I would really like to simply sleep until the end of next week, or even the 16th. I can't believe I'm so stressed over a flippin' CPU.
BTW, everyone seems down on MOSR (OK, no "seems" here --- y'all are down on them). My impression of them has always been favorable, but maybe it's just because they like to talk so much. My impression is that they've had a pretty good track record, but to be fair, I haven't been keeping track. Maybe I just want to believe what they are saying.
If that's to be believed, a 7457 at 1 GHz actually uses a bit more power than a 7455, not less. That's probably due to the extra L2 cache. The main benefit from the die shrink on the 7457 is probably going to be heat reduction, not power saving.
I've seen all kinds of contradictory information about this, from Motorola documents.
However, there is one constant across all CPUs, and in fact all devices made the same way that CPUs are made: The more power a chip uses, the hotter it is. Given that, and assuming that those PDFs are the correct ones, the gain from the shrink to 130nm lies in the number of transistors that Motorola can spend (e.g. on the larger cache), and in cost savings arising from a smaller die size (more CPUs per wafer = lower cost, assuming constant yields - wait, this is Motorola).
Yah, jeez. How in the hell did I miss all that? I edited my post so maybe noone will notice. Cha.
Anyway, if you are one of those people whose order got delayed, especially if you got an email about it, I'd say that is a good sign --- you will be asked if you want to upgrade if new machines come out next week.
Even if the new PowerBook update kicks ass and is not lackluster (G4 7457 up to 1.3 GHz with backlit keyboard on all models, L3 cache even on the 12 inch), it still wouldn't be Apple Expo material since it's not a G5 or a case redesign.
At the Apple Expo keynote 2000 (Steve's first in Europe), he introduced... the key lime iBook. You may want to reconsider what is Apple Expo material and what is not
At the Apple Expo keynote 2000 (Steve's first in Europe), he introduced... the key lime iBook. You may want to reconsider what is Apple Expo material and what is not
good point. but the demand for new powerbooks is bad now that I'm thinking they would want to release them ASAP once they get enough processors. then again, for all we know, that may not happen even after the expo.
also, there's talk of new panther features and iPod peripherals, so it seems like he'll have more exciting things to demo for the expo than a PB update.
So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Spot on. I was in the market for an updated 15" G4-book in summer, but considering that it's almost mid-september now, I'll just hang on till february and the G5. Seems the current round of PB's is just a hacked together job like the DMD Powermac G4
Comments
Originally posted by iDave
It is apparent that there are very few PowerBooks available to purchase right now. So yes, if new PowerBooks were available for immediate shipping and the features weren't worth bragging about, they might well be introduced a week before the expo. But then what would Steve talk about? Perhaps it's time for one of those new "digital devices" we've been expecting for a long time.
I think Apple Expo is gonna be mostly about Panther.
Even if the new PowerBook update kicks ass and is not lackluster (G4 7457 up to 1.3 GHz with backlit keyboard on all models, L3 cache even on the 12 inch), it still wouldn't be Apple Expo material since it's not a G5 or a case redesign.
Originally posted by iDave
Yeah, right. I think it unlikely that Apple would announce anything next week with one week to go until the Paris expo, unless the products are ready to ship the same day.
And if the top speed will be a 1.25 Ghz G4 (according to Appleinsider) then they are using the 7455 chip, not the 7457 chip. You know, if IBM is on track with the mobile G5 chips as suggested then Apple can announce PowerBook G5s in January. So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
And if the top speed will be a 1.25 Ghz G4 (according to Appleinsider) then they are using the 7455 chip, not the 7457 chip. You know, if IBM is on track with the mobile G5 chips as suggested then Apple can announce PowerBook G5s in January. So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Damn straight! I have an iBook to hold me off, screw the Powerbook G4, bring on the Powerbook G5!
Word for word here is what they said .....
Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted: PBG4 15.2/1GHZ/512/60/CMBO/AP/LL
IF after all this time all they can put in the new powerbooks are 1.25 G4's than why not instead put 1 gigahertz G5's yes 1 which is even less than the 1.2 lower end of the G5 I am saying underclock the Biatch if power is the problem a 1 gig G5 will outperform the G4... oh hell just release the same damn thing in aluminum casing for less money and I would bite at this point.... from reading this damn site I thought the 15 inch powerbooks were gonna be out months ago... all this freaking waiting... why did I ever read this site
(insert slight bit of sarcarsm--- however I am really pissed.... I wish I just bought the old clunker)
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
... I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Wait if you can. Some of us have no Mac or have old equipment that needs upgrading NOW.
With the channel as dry as it is now I think Apple will release this as soon as possible. Also, September is the end of the fiscal quarter. Even one extra week of shipments could add $10M or $20M to revenue for the quarter.
...recent rumors that have pin-pointed Motorola for failing to deliver sufficient quantities of the PowerPC 7457 to support a successful product launch.
According to the source, Apple management feels that supplies of the faster chips are now ample and the new units could full-fill backorders and be shipping in quantity by mid to late September.
This indicates that the new powerbooks will indeed be 7457. However, then it says
Included in the new breed of PowerBooks is said to be a 1.25 GHz aluminum 15
The 1.25Ghz implies a 7455. So this doesn't add up.
Could it be that the 15 inch may be 1.25GH and the 17 inch will max out at 1.3GHz. Or maybe Apple is somehow under-clocking 7457 a little to get improved battery life or something (like if they get 6.2 hours at 1.3Ghz, but can get 7 hours at 1.25GHz, from a marketing perspective, it makes sense to sacrifice .05Ghz in order to get a Centrino crushing 7 hours of battery life).
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
AI second page claims new Powerbooks next Monday or Tuesday:
"Apple may announce and start taking orders for a revamped line of PowerBook G4s as early as next week, one source tells AppleInsider. The tip comes amongst recent recent rumors that have pin-pointed Motorola for failing to deliver sufficient quantities of the PowerPC 7457 to support a successful product launch.
According to the source, Apple management feels that supplies of the faster chips are now ample and the new units could full-fill backorders and be shipping in quantity by mid to late September. Included in the new breed of PowerBooks is said to be a 1.25 GHz aluminum 15" model that sports a back-lit keyboard, ports on the side (as opposed to the rear), and an updated track pad and mouse button.
Sources could not confirm a date or time for the official announcement, but did mention September 9th or 10th as likely candidates. It should be noted that the deployment schedule for the aforementioned units has slipped several times over the past month, while channel inventory of several configurations has remained depleted. Meanwhile, the initial packaging and marketing material for the new portables was said to have been completed over a month ago."
I have one word that will probably sum all of that up ..... as Paul had stated previously : Horseshit!
If the bus is staying at 167MHz, then the closest you can get to 1.3GHz is 1.25GHz (with a 7.5:1 clock ratio). Why would the bus stay at 167MHz? Partly because Mot hasn't said the 7457's bus can clock higher than that; but since that hasn't stopped Apple before, the main reason would be that Apple can drop the 7457 in with zero changes to the current motherboard. The revision then revolves around case, CPU, HDD, optical, and GPU - all stuff that can be upgraded without much work at all.
The bulk of the work would involve bringing the 17"'s features down to the 15", and (to whatever extent) the 12".
That's what I'm betting on for the next release. It would be a substantial upgrade involving a minimum of work for Apple engineers (basically none for the 17" since its upgrades would all be drop-in, little to none for the 12" depending on what they end up doing), which allows them to concentrate on the G5 PB and the G4 iBook.
I can't help but point out, once more, that no-one should be surprised that a chip that was expected to ship in quantity in October ends up shipping in quantity in October. If Apple gets a good supply before then, bully for Motorola. But that would put them ahead of the schedule they've offered since January at the latest.
Check the 7455 data PDF here.
Check the 7457 data PDF here.
In both articles, go to the "Electrical and Thermal Characteristics" section and scroll down a bit until you actually see the tables for the typical and maximum power usage (page 15 on the 7455 chart, page 14 on the 7457 chart). If that's to be believed, a 7457 at 1 GHz actually uses a bit more power than a 7455, not less. That's probably due to the extra L2 cache. The main benefit from the die shrink on the 7457 is probably going to be heat reduction, not power saving.
That's not to say that Apple couldn't still gain battery life. Newer batteries and video chipsets might be more efficient. But I suspect that the only reason for a delay was because Apple didn't want CPU fans blasting at full speed all the time.
I almost think they would take orders next week just to calm people down, but god knows when the damn things would ship. Between these forums and personal contact, Apple has to know people are not happy about the update time for 15" books --- I've personally told my rep three times in the past ten days that I'm really not happy to be faced with buying 10-month old hardware.
I would really like to simply sleep until the end of next week, or even the 16th. I can't believe I'm so stressed over a flippin' CPU.
BTW, everyone seems down on MOSR (OK, no "seems" here --- y'all are down on them). My impression of them has always been favorable, but maybe it's just because they like to talk so much. My impression is that they've had a pretty good track record, but to be fair, I haven't been keeping track. Maybe I just want to believe what they are saying.
Originally posted by Commodus
If that's to be believed, a 7457 at 1 GHz actually uses a bit more power than a 7455, not less. That's probably due to the extra L2 cache. The main benefit from the die shrink on the 7457 is probably going to be heat reduction, not power saving.
I've seen all kinds of contradictory information about this, from Motorola documents.
However, there is one constant across all CPUs, and in fact all devices made the same way that CPUs are made: The more power a chip uses, the hotter it is. Given that, and assuming that those PDFs are the correct ones, the gain from the shrink to 130nm lies in the number of transistors that Motorola can spend (e.g. on the larger cache), and in cost savings arising from a smaller die size (more CPUs per wafer = lower cost, assuming constant yields - wait, this is Motorola).
Originally posted by machem
...So it looks like I get to be the one to mention the new round of PB notes on the rumor sites?
Already posted above.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Already posted above.
Yah, jeez. How in the hell did I miss all that? I edited my post so maybe noone will notice. Cha.
Anyway, if you are one of those people whose order got delayed, especially if you got an email about it, I'd say that is a good sign --- you will be asked if you want to upgrade if new machines come out next week.
Originally posted by popmetal
Even if the new PowerBook update kicks ass and is not lackluster (G4 7457 up to 1.3 GHz with backlit keyboard on all models, L3 cache even on the 12 inch), it still wouldn't be Apple Expo material since it's not a G5 or a case redesign.
At the Apple Expo keynote 2000 (Steve's first in Europe), he introduced... the key lime iBook. You may want to reconsider what is Apple Expo material and what is not
Originally posted by philby
At the Apple Expo keynote 2000 (Steve's first in Europe), he introduced... the key lime iBook. You may want to reconsider what is Apple Expo material and what is not
good point. but the demand for new powerbooks is bad now that I'm thinking they would want to release them ASAP once they get enough processors. then again, for all we know, that may not happen even after the expo.
also, there's talk of new panther features and iPod peripherals, so it seems like he'll have more exciting things to demo for the expo than a PB update.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
So why should I get an updated PowerBook G4 now, especially if it is not going to have the benefits of the 7457 chip? I've waited this long so why not another three months?
Spot on. I was in the market for an updated 15" G4-book in summer, but considering that it's almost mid-september now, I'll just hang on till february and the G5. Seems the current round of PB's is just a hacked together job like the DMD Powermac G4