taxing old folks out of air conditioning = death by compassion

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Death by taxation



The premise:



Quote:

France claims that the recent European heat wave (search) was responsible for the deaths of 3,000 of its countrymen. But for most of the summer, it has been much hotter in the American West, and no one can find even one body attributable to the heat.



Now we have 3,000 people dead for basically no good reason other than the energy in France is too expensive for the average person to have or use air conditioning. (or so this article contends)



It is claimed this is going to get even worse because Europe is trying to meet the Kyoto treaty and has not been successful in doing so. (I wonder how many American liberals would endorse nuclear energy on the scale France uses it too) So in otherwords, they rates and taxes on electricity in France and other nearby countries is going to go even higher.



These same folks declare us "uncompassionate" when, in the midst of waging war, a few civilians are killed by errant bombs and missles. For this we show both remorse and compassion to the folks to whom it occured.



Yet some fanatical environmentalists, declare war on humans by using as their criteria for acceptance, that we leave no mark of change on the planet while using it (Not leave emissions that can be taken care of by the planet, etc. NO emissions) (We aren't talking conservation we are talking well beyond that.)



As a result of this "war on human lifestyle" we have thousands dying literally in their homes because the cost of energy is so high, that it makes temperatures that we routinely see in California and throughout much of the south-west a death sentence for innocent folks in Paris.



And they call themselves enlightened and compassionate....



Nick
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 66
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    *looks at 10-foot pole*



    "Not even with you, my friend."
  • Reply 2 of 66
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Eskimos routinely live in very cold weather, but it would kill a lot of people that grew up in Pheonix Arizona.
  • Reply 3 of 66
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    I'm sorry, but there are plenty of ways to cool down. Go to the market. Fill up a cold bath. Take a swim in a pool. Use a fan. Go to a pub.



    I feel no sympathy for these idiots that sat still and died from stupidity.
  • Reply 4 of 66
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    This was caused by high taxes? It's not at all related to the fact that this is the hottest it's been in generations, and people don't normally need air conditioners there? This seems to have been a failure of not taking action when they knew this was going to be a hot one. I know this happens in the US periodically and people get on the ball go out to check on the large numbers of people who don't have air conditioning.
  • Reply 5 of 66
    So the answer to global warming is to increase the use of air conditioning? (and lower taxes, of course, but that's a more general panacea). Ironic, huh?
  • Reply 6 of 66
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Now we have 3,000 people dead for basically no good reason other than the energy in France is too expensive for the average person to have or use air conditioning. (or so this article contends)



    I'd like to see what the real reasons of these 3000 dead people are. Those who make the statistics of dead people in France probably aren't being paid by companies that market air conditioners.



    France has 60'000'000 people. In an average of how long period do 3'000 of them die? Besides most 'old Europe' countries have a bigger percentage of elderly than US has (except Florida maybe), so they have a weaker immune system, and if they want to have at every cost their 1,30 pm hot pasta everry day their body may easier overheat.



    Can you explain me, trumptman, if those deaths were caused by the price of electricity, why i NEVER EVER have heard of even ONE death caused by hot weather in countries like Brazil (e.g. when I lived there) or anywhere in Africa? FYI I can an average Brazilian or African does not have money to have an air conditioning.
  • Reply 7 of 66
    yeah, what mb said...



    if you think about it old people in the south dont die from heat even without air con. the only deaths i have ever heard of in sc were from people who already had heart disease or some other stressor.



    in other words, heat kills those who dont deal with it on a year to year basis.
  • Reply 8 of 66
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Giaguara

    I'd like to see what the real reasons of these 3000 dead people are.



    Fox News has spoken. It's because of environmentalists!
  • Reply 9 of 66
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    I think the solution is to figure out the reason why the Africans and Indians etc don't die of heat.



    Genetics can be a partial explanation for tollerating cold or hot weather. I never suffer from hot weather (with no air conditioning), and even in 100 F I rarely even sweat, but in coldmy muscles are in pain. So even now I do actally sleep with a winter blanket to keep me warm. And the genetics can be only partial because if e.g. the people in Portugal are supposed to die because of heat (oh, wait, only the French? In Portugal the electricity is a lot more expensive in relation to income) and those in Brazil, that are to a really big percentage of Portuguese origin, then don't die? I doubt 1-4 generations can make THAT big difference in heat tolerance.
  • Reply 10 of 66
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I wonder if there's a big genetic role to play. More likely, I think it has to do with what people are used to and whether they know how to prepare for it.



    You know how in some places in the South (e.g., Atlanta) when it snows, there are a million car accidents - the same snowfall could occur in Minnesota, and there are very few accidents. It's simply because people are used to it and know what to do. I bet it's the same thing here. This was the hottest in what -100 years? - and people just aren't prepared for it.
  • Reply 11 of 66
    It was their time.

    let them go.

    flick.
  • Reply 12 of 66
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    ... that we leave no mark of change on the planet while using it (Not leave emissions that can be taken care of by the planet, etc. NO emissions)



    heard something funny on NPR on Sunday evening driving home. you're all familiar with the acronym



    NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard



    the next step up is



    BANANA - Build Almost Nothing Anywhere Near Anything



    and the final straw?



    NOPE = Not On Planet Earth



    i would like to point out that i consider myself an environmentalist, in the fact that there is no earthly f'n sense in tearing down 30 acres of land to build TWO Target stores 15 minutes away from each other on the interstate near my house. hundreds of acres could be put to FAR better use than it currently is, but real estate agents and city boards are content with raping the hell out of their land, so long as they keep their weekend cottage out in the woods. i would rather see a windmill farm or solar field in place of another friggin' football stadium wal-mart.



    i understand that development will happen, but could someone please agree on ways to do it sensibly??? wal-mart, for example, would raise seventeen notches in my book if they agreed to place solar panels across those battleship landing decks they call a roof and supply either part of their own power or the community's power through it. but no, now it's just a big waste of rooftop gravel or asphault, absorbing and reflecting tons of heat without any benefit in return.



  • Reply 13 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    heard something funny on NPR on Sunday evening driving home. you're all familiar with the acronym



    NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard



    the next step up is



    BANANA - Build Almost Nothing Anywhere Near Anything



    and the final straw?



    NOPE = Not On Planet Earth



    i would like to point out that i consider myself an environmentalist, in the fact that there is no earthly f'n sense in tearing down 30 acres of land to build TWO Target stores 15 minutes away from each other on the interstate near my house. hundreds of acres could be put to FAR better use than it currently is, but real estate agents and city boards are content with raping the hell out of their land, so long as they keep their weekend cottage out in the woods. i would rather see a windmill farm or solar field in place of another friggin' football stadium wal-mart.



    i understand that development will happen, but could someone please agree on ways to do it sensibly??? wal-mart, for example, would raise seventeen notches in my book if they agreed to place solar panels across those battleship landing decks they call a roof and supply either part of their own power or the community's power through it. but no, now it's just a big waste of rooftop gravel or asphault, absorbing and reflecting tons of heat without any benefit in return.







    YES!

    YES!

    you have my vote.. if i voted.

    flick.
  • Reply 14 of 66
    What I don't get is the general theme of these threads whereby it is revealed that the bleeding-heart liberals, tree-huggers, socialists and other simple-minded fools who are *trying* to do the best for minorities, women, the poor, society in general, the planet, etc. are failing catastrophically *because of* their misplaced compassion and their measures end up having the exact opposite effect to the intended. They are of course blind to any problems with their do-gooding.



    The conservative, right-wing republicans on the other hand can continue to be racist, mysoginistic, generally ignorant of their impact on society, the international community and the planet and yet magically it always turns out that they were doing exactly the right thing all along.



    Yeah, burn those fossil fuels! Quickly now, we need to save the poor old folks from global warming!



    Now, I have no problems with free markets, and lowering tax and deregulation or whatever when the eventual goal is a better society. Which, after all, is what the original "invisible hand" of free markets was supposed to give us, a fairer, more efficient and equitable arrangement based on market signals.



    But the right-wingers don't even leave themselves the moral high-ground to claim that was their intention in the first place. They deride people for trying to be do-gooders and then claim that their plan to cut taxes, drill for oil in Alaska, lynch black men who look the wrong way at white women, or whatever is a better idea *because* it out do-goods the do-gooders.



    Who's the bleeding heart now?
  • Reply 15 of 66
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Stupider...thanafox where is this coming from? Republicans aren't magically doing anything right AFAIK.



    Besides we all know old people lack common sense. We just convinced my grandma to use *redial* (no joke.) And the remote. Also, she can't use air conditioning. She can't breath with it for some reason. Plus, they're French. I do love old people and French people though.



    Fox please tell me you were doing a parody!
  • Reply 16 of 66
    Well not a parody as such... I just thought it weird that highly intellegent (though morally dubious) people can write so many columns where the beliefs and behaviours of the worst stereotype of the uneducated, racist, homophobic, mysoginistic etc. etc. right-winger turns out to be the best solution for society in general e.g. the fact that lowering taxes *always* makes things better, no matter what the issue.



    So, without examing the facts of each and every case and issue, it would appear to be either a coincidence on an unbelievably grand scale (a true cosmic irony) or total bullshit. You decide.
  • Reply 17 of 66
    Amazing. People die and the only reason Fox News (there's an oxymoron) and the rest of the idiot world (most of you guys) decide that it's because they're old, stupid, liberal or French.



    Stupid cynical idiots. This is why I most likely won't respond to 90% of the topics posted here. It's embarrassing that as Mac users many of us here have turned to shit. All this LEFT VS. RIGHT blathering.



    I have been trying my best to save money. And one of the things I have had to sacrifice has been air conditioning. Being that I am a fairly heathy 43 year old man, I have been able to endure the heat. Now imagine a person older than me or without the means economically to have air conditioning and what they face. Most likely a charity group will help with supplying fans to some, but others are just too afraid or embarrassed to get help. And don't expect this Fascist regime of a government to even care about them too. They're too busy with their Crusade of World Domination to even care.



    ...yes, that includes the French government too.



    Now carry on with your bullshit.
  • Reply 18 of 66
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Very simple. Culture. Its not part of our culture to have AC. Just ask all the american tourists sitting in overheated post offices here in Copenhagen in this summer complaining over missing AC. The average pow here is "yes its hot today and I sweat too. but tomorrow its propably raining and cold again so why bother?". And people die because they never thought of installing it. Just like more people die from eating fast food in US than here. Matter of culture and habits.



    You have to be Fox to make this into an enviromentalist question.
  • Reply 19 of 66
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Fox (not the network) I'm still confused! Do you mean that you really think the right wing lowering taxes is always a good thing? If so, well, no. They are lowering vet benefits for Army soldiers in Iraq. That is bad. They are lowering taxes on rich people. Every program for poor people and old people suffers. The environment suffers. Without taxes the government doesn't work. We become serfs and the rich few are the feudal lords. If it's a parody, it was well done but so convincing it's confusing!
  • Reply 20 of 66
    fred_ljfred_lj Posts: 607member
    They died. It's unchangeable. Let it be.
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