Last night on the venerable Fox News Channel I noticed that roving political correspondent Carl Cameron spin that Dean was in trouble because his campaign had hit "several" speed bumps and his front-runner status was beginning to show signs of de-railing.
Is this guys serious? I understand that Fox News may be less inclined to partake in the Dean love-fest, but spinning his campaign into something that's in dire trouble is soooooo over the top, it doesn't even TRY to pretend it's something other than neo-con.
The only legitimacy he was giving Hammas was as that of a group that commits violence against Isrealis and that they are by all means (including its leaders) a LEGITIMATE TARGET...
He didn't say anyone should negotiate with hammas...
he was speaking euphemistically... they're waging war on isreal and are soldiers in that war and therefore legitimate targets... to that end if we are at war with terrorist, then Bush must mean that terrorists are soldiers... just one step removed if you want to use the same powers of deduction that Dean's opponents are using.
Dean doesn't think they are literally soldiers... anymore than Bush thinks terrorists are soldiers.
The only legitimacy he was giving Hammas was as that of a group that commits violence against Isrealis and that they are by all means (including its leaders) a LEGITIMATE TARGET...
He didn't say anyone should negotiate with hammas...
he was speaking euphemistically... they're waging war on isreal and are soldiers in that war and therefore legitimate targets... to that end if we are at war with terrorist, then Bush must mean that terrorists are soldiers... just one step removed if you want to use the same powers of deduction that Dean's opponents are using.
Dean doesn't think they are literally soldiers... anymore than Bush thinks terrorists are soldiers.
Agreed. But, the problem is bigger than this little triffle. The bigger question is whether or not Fox News and Carl Cameron are intentionally blowing small issues WAY out of proportion in order to aid and abet Bush. I suppose that to some degree this is par for the course when you're the front-runner. But, to take this issue in particular, plus a couple of heated one word exchanges between Dean and Kerry, and then to conclude that Dean's campaign is on the verge of de-railing is preposterous. Fox News is HUGE and they have a huge viewership that accepts everything they report as "fair and balanced". So, when you have unabashedly biased reporting, well, I start frothing at the mouth (Trumptman, that was for you )
BTW Chewie, I think you and I are the only left in this thread.
Well... it's obvious what Fox is doing... that's why they exist... Roger Ailes runs the network as an offshoot of the Republican Party. That's why the network is considered a joke... no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
Well... it's obvious what Fox is doing... that's why they exist... Roger Ailes runs the network as an offshoot of the Republican Party. That's why the network is considered a joke... no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
Even though you and I consider Fox News a joke I wouldn't go as far as to say that "no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced." There is a huge bible-belt demographic that eats this shit up. They DO believe Fox is fair and balanced and that Dean is an ultra-liberal. Here's an example from today's headlines:
"Dean has made a name for himself by blasting the Bush administration for a myriad of topics, most notably, the Iraq war. Many experts say he represents the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party and likely won't appeal to middle-of-the-road Democrats. He has also drawn fire lately for seemingly backpedaling on previous statements."
Notice how they say "many experts". Who are these experts? Why aren't they referenced? Also notice how they say "extreme" left wing. Extreme? How so and why?
They just casually throw out these adjectives like there's no tomorrow. "Backpedaling"...another a good one. Can anyone provide a link or a direct quote that shows Dean backpedaling on ANYTHING he's said?
Fox News is so hell-bent on discrediting Howard Dean, of which they can find no dirt, so they've relegated to using unsubstantiated hyperbole. And, yes, I wish CNN would counter with honest and fair reporting rather than running around with their tail between their legs.
In the article it says that Howard Dean's appearance on HBO's "K Street" is apparently back-firing. Really?
I also did a relatively thorough check on CNN's website and there's absolutely no mention of Dean's "questionable ability for Straight Talk". Nothing on the home page, nothing on the politic's page. Nothing that apparently supports Dean or defends him (ergo, no liberal bias).
I watched the HBO show twice this week and both times I came away feeling that the show HELPED Dean. For Fox News to try and make something out of the fact that Carville fed him the line is a bit disengenous me thinks. If anyone out there doesn't think Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, et al didn't also have their own prepping, or fed one-liners, then they're fools.
I'm sure Bush received the mother-of-all prepping before every campaign.
Yet again, this is another glaring example of Fox News' foot soldiers doing Bush's dirty work.
Bush can barely appear in public without a teleprompter... does anyone think he writes his speaches? He's hardly done any question and answer news conferences... he's less than nimble when answering questions.
Hey... when someone gives you a good line... you use it.
Fox is just grasping at straws... they'll do this to whomever is the democratic frontrunner... it's what they do.
Bush can barely appear in public without a teleprompter... does anyone think he writes his speaches? He's hardly done any question and answer news conferences... he's less than nimble when answering questions.
Hey... when someone gives you a good line... you use it.
Fox is just grasping at straws... they'll do this to whomever is the democratic frontrunner... it's what they do.
Yep. And some people around here can't even add to the debate. They just write it off with a colorful euphamism. There is no debate anymore. No more arguing the facts. And when they can't make an honest argument, they just resort to finger pointing...or write you off as hyperventillating. Sad, really.
I'm at the chapter where Joe Conason goes ofter the "morally superior" republican's. It's fuuuun. Henry Hyde, Livingstone, Gingrich... Chenoweth... all darlings of the Christian Right... all adulterers...
He doesn't say that democrats are morally superior by anymeans... just not hypocritical like some Republican's.
Sorry I have repeatedly mentioned that I don't watch any cable news. I don't have enough hours in the day. I will admit to them being among the list of news websites I hit a couple of times a week though. However that includes CNN, ABCnews, Drudge, etc.
If you honestly think a source has a bias, likely the best way to counter that is posting lots of links to alternative sources. Even when I disagree strongly with someone you see me yelling for links. The more sources, the better.
I agree... I like tracking down original statements and transcripts whenever possible... I don't really trust any news media to get it straight... and never expect them to admit a mistake.
It really pisses me off when I know the truth... ie read the transcript and a quote is STILL taken out of context and totally twisted to a meaning oppostite of what was said. And the right-wing pundits are masters at it.
In the article it says that Howard Dean's appearance on HBO's "K Street" is apparently back-firing. Really?
I also did a relatively thorough check on CNN's website and there's absolutely no mention of Dean's "questionable ability for Straight Talk". Nothing on the home page, nothing on the politic's page. Nothing that apparently supports Dean or defends him (ergo, no liberal bias).
I watched the HBO show twice this week and both times I came away feeling that the show HELPED Dean. For Fox News to try and make something out of the fact that Carville fed him the line is a bit disengenous me thinks. If anyone out there doesn't think Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, et al didn't also have their own prepping, or fed one-liners, then they're fools.
I'm sure Bush received the mother-of-all prepping before every campaign.
Yet again, this is another glaring example of Fox News' foot soldiers doing Bush's dirty work.
First thanks for the link, any link in fact.
I didn't come away with the same impression you did. I didn't see him claiming some Dean loss of traction, just that people were questioning the "straight talker" title.
The article seemed to dwell on the irony of a guy who claims to be off the cuff using a line written for him in a script for that show while speaking at the CBC/FoxNews Democratic Debate.
I don't know how being prepared or having a zinger beforehand isn't straight talking? Also... he's known for speaking in interviews off-the-cuff ie... straight... and he gets sh!t for it... and now that he goes into a debate with a "sound bite" ready to go he's not? Ahhhh... life as a frontrunner...
Well... it's obvious what Fox is doing... that's why they exist... Roger Ailes runs the network as an offshoot of the Republican Party. That's why the network is considered a joke... no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
You don't think any of this could just be the fact Dean is a top tier candidate now?
Just with a quick scan of Google about Dean and "straight talk rivals" I got the following. Mind you not all of theme are attack pieces but I would characterize most of them as at least probing and asking more questions than may be liked.
I mean regardless of how you feel about Bush and Fox, there could also be attempts to take lables, issues, etc. away from Dean by the other candidates as well.
You don't think any of this could just be the fact Dean is a top tier candidate now?
I mean regardless of how you feel about Bush and Fox, there could also be attempts to take lables, issues, etc. away from Dean by the other candidates as well.
Nick
Actually, I do believe this is a result of the fact that Dean's the front-runner. And, I guess, it's to be expected.
I also thoroughly expect Clinton to secretly support/manage Wesley Clarke's campaign and wouldn't put it past him and his chronies to attack Dean from within. So, it's going to be difficult to tell where the salvos are coming from as things heat up.
Comments
Is this guys serious? I understand that Fox News may be less inclined to partake in the Dean love-fest, but spinning his campaign into something that's in dire trouble is soooooo over the top, it doesn't even TRY to pretend it's something other than neo-con.
He didn't say anyone should negotiate with hammas...
he was speaking euphemistically... they're waging war on isreal and are soldiers in that war and therefore legitimate targets... to that end if we are at war with terrorist, then Bush must mean that terrorists are soldiers... just one step removed if you want to use the same powers of deduction that Dean's opponents are using.
Dean doesn't think they are literally soldiers... anymore than Bush thinks terrorists are soldiers.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
The only legitimacy he was giving Hammas was as that of a group that commits violence against Isrealis and that they are by all means (including its leaders) a LEGITIMATE TARGET...
He didn't say anyone should negotiate with hammas...
he was speaking euphemistically... they're waging war on isreal and are soldiers in that war and therefore legitimate targets... to that end if we are at war with terrorist, then Bush must mean that terrorists are soldiers... just one step removed if you want to use the same powers of deduction that Dean's opponents are using.
Dean doesn't think they are literally soldiers... anymore than Bush thinks terrorists are soldiers.
Agreed. But, the problem is bigger than this little triffle. The bigger question is whether or not Fox News and Carl Cameron are intentionally blowing small issues WAY out of proportion in order to aid and abet Bush. I suppose that to some degree this is par for the course when you're the front-runner. But, to take this issue in particular, plus a couple of heated one word exchanges between Dean and Kerry, and then to conclude that Dean's campaign is on the verge of de-railing is preposterous. Fox News is HUGE and they have a huge viewership that accepts everything they report as "fair and balanced". So, when you have unabashedly biased reporting, well, I start frothing at the mouth
BTW Chewie, I think you and I are the only left in this thread.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Well... it's obvious what Fox is doing... that's why they exist... Roger Ailes runs the network as an offshoot of the Republican Party. That's why the network is considered a joke... no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
Even though you and I consider Fox News a joke I wouldn't go as far as to say that "no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced." There is a huge bible-belt demographic that eats this shit up. They DO believe Fox is fair and balanced and that Dean is an ultra-liberal. Here's an example from today's headlines:
"Dean has made a name for himself by blasting the Bush administration for a myriad of topics, most notably, the Iraq war. Many experts say he represents the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party and likely won't appeal to middle-of-the-road Democrats. He has also drawn fire lately for seemingly backpedaling on previous statements."
Notice how they say "many experts". Who are these experts? Why aren't they referenced? Also notice how they say "extreme" left wing. Extreme? How so and why?
They just casually throw out these adjectives like there's no tomorrow. "Backpedaling"...another a good one. Can anyone provide a link or a direct quote that shows Dean backpedaling on ANYTHING he's said?
Fox News is so hell-bent on discrediting Howard Dean, of which they can find no dirt, so they've relegated to using unsubstantiated hyperbole. And, yes, I wish CNN would counter with honest and fair reporting rather than running around with their tail between their legs.
I just wish 60 minutes would do a good peice on the Bushies... Wolfowitz, Cheney and Bush himself.
Cheney pushed the Atta met an Iraqi in wherever story again... when that story was proven false months ago.
Wolfowitz lied to congrees about the cost of rebuilding Iraq.
Bush just lies constantly... He's says he's raised the elementary and secondary school budget for next year, when in fact he's cut it by a billion.
Fox just spouts crap 24/7... as does the Whitehouse...and no one in the mainstream media calls them on it consistently.
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgame...?bid=3&pid=949
Dean's "Straight Talk" in Question - New HBO Series Raises Eyebrows
In the article it says that Howard Dean's appearance on HBO's "K Street" is apparently back-firing. Really?
I also did a relatively thorough check on CNN's website and there's absolutely no mention of Dean's "questionable ability for Straight Talk". Nothing on the home page, nothing on the politic's page. Nothing that apparently supports Dean or defends him (ergo, no liberal bias).
I watched the HBO show twice this week and both times I came away feeling that the show HELPED Dean. For Fox News to try and make something out of the fact that Carville fed him the line is a bit disengenous me thinks. If anyone out there doesn't think Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, et al didn't also have their own prepping, or fed one-liners, then they're fools.
I'm sure Bush received the mother-of-all prepping before every campaign.
Yet again, this is another glaring example of Fox News' foot soldiers doing Bush's dirty work.
Hey... when someone gives you a good line... you use it.
Fox is just grasping at straws... they'll do this to whomever is the democratic frontrunner... it's what they do.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Bush can barely appear in public without a teleprompter... does anyone think he writes his speaches? He's hardly done any question and answer news conferences... he's less than nimble when answering questions.
Hey... when someone gives you a good line... you use it.
Fox is just grasping at straws... they'll do this to whomever is the democratic frontrunner... it's what they do.
Yep. And some people around here can't even add to the debate. They just write it off with a colorful euphamism. There is no debate anymore. No more arguing the facts. And when they can't make an honest argument, they just resort to finger pointing...or write you off as hyperventillating. Sad, really.
He doesn't say that democrats are morally superior by anymeans... just not hypocritical like some Republican's.
Trumptman, that was for you
Sorry I have repeatedly mentioned that I don't watch any cable news. I don't have enough hours in the day. I will admit to them being among the list of news websites I hit a couple of times a week though. However that includes CNN, ABCnews, Drudge, etc.
If you honestly think a source has a bias, likely the best way to counter that is posting lots of links to alternative sources. Even when I disagree strongly with someone you see me yelling for links. The more sources, the better.
Nick
It really pisses me off when I know the truth... ie read the transcript and a quote is STILL taken out of context and totally twisted to a meaning oppostite of what was said. And the right-wing pundits are masters at it.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
calls the right out on lies...
as does
http://mediawhoresonline.com/
Originally posted by Northgate
Even more fuel for the anti-Dean movement over at Fox News. Featured prominently on their home page is this article:
Dean's "Straight Talk" in Question - New HBO Series Raises Eyebrows
In the article it says that Howard Dean's appearance on HBO's "K Street" is apparently back-firing. Really?
I also did a relatively thorough check on CNN's website and there's absolutely no mention of Dean's "questionable ability for Straight Talk". Nothing on the home page, nothing on the politic's page. Nothing that apparently supports Dean or defends him (ergo, no liberal bias).
I watched the HBO show twice this week and both times I came away feeling that the show HELPED Dean. For Fox News to try and make something out of the fact that Carville fed him the line is a bit disengenous me thinks. If anyone out there doesn't think Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, et al didn't also have their own prepping, or fed one-liners, then they're fools.
I'm sure Bush received the mother-of-all prepping before every campaign.
Yet again, this is another glaring example of Fox News' foot soldiers doing Bush's dirty work.
First thanks for the link, any link in fact.
I didn't come away with the same impression you did. I didn't see him claiming some Dean loss of traction, just that people were questioning the "straight talker" title.
The article seemed to dwell on the irony of a guy who claims to be off the cuff using a line written for him in a script for that show while speaking at the CBC/FoxNews Democratic Debate.
Nick
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Well... it's obvious what Fox is doing... that's why they exist... Roger Ailes runs the network as an offshoot of the Republican Party. That's why the network is considered a joke... no one believes for an instant that they are fair or balanced.
The sad thing is that mainstream media pundits and news shows pick up the out of context quotes and mischaracterizations... they're lazy.
You don't think any of this could just be the fact Dean is a top tier candidate now?
Just with a quick scan of Google about Dean and "straight talk rivals" I got the following. Mind you not all of theme are attack pieces but I would characterize most of them as at least probing and asking more questions than may be liked.
Dean straight talk strays
Dean's not going away
Bring on Deano
What makes Dean tick?
Dean shifts stand
I mean regardless of how you feel about Bush and Fox, there could also be attempts to take lables, issues, etc. away from Dean by the other candidates as well.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
You don't think any of this could just be the fact Dean is a top tier candidate now?
I mean regardless of how you feel about Bush and Fox, there could also be attempts to take lables, issues, etc. away from Dean by the other candidates as well.
Nick
Actually, I do believe this is a result of the fact that Dean's the front-runner. And, I guess, it's to be expected.
I also thoroughly expect Clinton to secretly support/manage Wesley Clarke's campaign and wouldn't put it past him and his chronies to attack Dean from within. So, it's going to be difficult to tell where the salvos are coming from as things heat up.
Right now it's between Dean and Kerry... for me anyway. But Clarke could wedge himself in there.
Dean widens lead in California poll.
Clark is at a mere 4%.
I don't know if Clark can win many primaries after getting in so late in the game .