I knew I didn't want to get involved in this discussion dammit. It's true, it's all true. Now I'm really bummed out. So in answer to your question pscates, yes.
For a second, I thought you said you lie there and take it in the bum.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....oh that's funny...HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.....*wipe the tears*......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA......oh God....HAHAHAHAHAHAH......make it stop!....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
It is strange that Apple positions itself as the best platform for ease of use and digital solutions but doesn't demonstrate it in it's commercials (apart from the iPod ones).
Well, my previous attempts to explain the dilemma Apple faces in advertizing appear to have failed miserably
Sorry, I just don't pay attention I guess...
Doesn't really seem to hang together much anyway. I still don't see the problem. Does it have to take such a huge, drastic step? All the things I speak about in the thread-opening post STILL hold true and carry weight: Apple has opted to simply show uninteresting people telling uninteresting stories as the lynchpin of one of their largest campaigns.
There were 50 other things they could've done in those 30 seconds instead.
And here's the thing: even IF they stayed with the Switch campaign/theme, is simply showing 30 seconds of nothing but regular schmos telling stories the most exciting, impactful way to do it? I've said it before, but why couldn't they have shown some hardware or software doing stuff WHILE the people were talking. I don't need to see Janie, stoner chick, that office woman, cop, vet or DJ for 30 seconds straight. I'd prefer NOT to. They could've kept on telling their stories while holding their PowerBooks or whatever and there could've been some really nice "eye candy" shots of the gear, BACKED UP by the storytelling.
If I knew enough about video and all, I'd re-edit those Switch commercials and do it right, just to show...
Face it: if Dell or Gateway came out with a commercial and ALL they showed were people rambling on for 30 seconds, we'd all laugh our asses off at the whole "so what?!?" nature of it all.
Apple shouldn't get a pass...
Okay, so they do this big "enterprise push". Best of luck to them. Great. ANOTHER 2-3 years of "seeing if it works" and slow, gradual coming around.
Whereas, my ideas or thoughts seem to work kinda in the "here and now" and address immediate concerns and might help, say, NOW and not in a year or two after studies are done, reports released, etc.
I really, really hope that some of you truly aren't of the opinion that what Apple is doing now, marketing/advertising-wise, is "as good as it gets" and represents "the best they can do". Because it's not. And you have know it.
Hell, there are commercials for Dr. Scholls gel inserts or Lysol shower cleaner that are more effective and inspiring to me than anything I've seen Apple put out! I actually want to buy those things and "be gellin'"! But if I didn't already use a Mac and love them, I can honestly say that nothing I've seen from Apple in the past 3 or so years would've have made me think once about giving them a try. Either too vague, too cutesy, too annoying, etc. Nothing has ever seemed to have any real meat, info or substance to it. All been style and surface, it seems.
The majority of people don't need or care for or can afford a G5. Those who will buy will be reached through trade mag advertising.
An OS doesn't sell a computer anymore. Contrary to popular belief (here). The number of people moving up to XP from another Wintel OS is far below MS expectations, and Apple seems to have trouble moing people from OS6-OS9 to OSX. Despite both OSs being much better than their predecessors, its very hard to advertise incremental improvements over a large number of areas. Hence the shallow appearance appeal of aqua, or Microsoft's equally dumb advertising of anything but the OS--Messenger and Media Player.
You can't advertise crashes less, or the UI isn't as bad as the last version (though Apple did try the UI is prettier than last version). People have to use the OS to appreciate difference and Apple Stores are the correct way to do things. But that takes more time and money, and doesn't have the instant gratification forum members require.
For consumers the only iApp that counts is iTunes because of iTMS and the iPod. Apple screwed the pooch on iPhoto, and has to bust ass to make it work to the level of iTunes.
Quote:
Face it: if Dell or Gateway came out with a commercial and ALL they showed were people rambling on for 30 seconds, we'd all laugh our asses off at the whole "so what?!?" nature of it all.
Dell intern ads. Or most any ad these days (especially car or beer ads). Look carefully and try to find a TV commercial where the product is shown in detail.
Or most any ad these days (especially car or beer ads). Look carefully and try to find a TV commercial where the product is shown in detail.
Infiniti, Jaguar, VW, Bose, various prescription medications, fast food, Appleby's, Coca-Cola, spaghetti sauce, Cingular, etc.
Shall I go on?
Besides, the only reason for Macs to exist is for the stuff you do on them...why NOT show them doing it a bit? It's not meant to be a $1799 paper weight.
I don't think Apple is going to go the T&A route of your typical beer commercial, so let's nip that one in the bud right off the bat...
Some of the above show a nice mixture (which is all I've asked for) of the product and other things. I never said it has to be 30 seconds solid of product! But it sure as hell doesn't need to be 30 seconds of goofy-looking people droning on about their trials and tribulations before they bought a Mac.
A nice balance, perhaps, between the two? What, exactly, is so horrible and incomprehensible about that? Do you, personally, get a huge kick out of the Switch ads, just as they are? I sure don't.
But put all that aside and let's go back to what I mentioned in the thread-opening post: here were are, nearly a year later: WHAT has changed? HAVE these Switch ads created a huge, incredible migration to the platform? Have the numbers switched up dramatically on any sort of reasonable, positive scale?
Not that I'm aware of. So if you judge it by THAT (and you should, really), it's a bit of a miserable, time-wasting failure IMO.
They ARE NOT COMPELLING. They don't grab you. They don't make you curious about Apple or the Mac. They just don't. I'm sorry, but it's just true. They suck, they tanked and a year later there really isn't that much different to show for the effort, is there?
Again, who's at fault? Who has proven, time and again, to be completely incapable of creating an arresting, eye-popping campaign that makes people really want to investigate this stuff further?
Again, either piss or get off the pot, Apple. If you're serios about marketshare and all, then DO something real. If not, then that's cool too. Just shut up about it and revel in your cool, niche status. Nothing wrong with that either.
If 30-60 seconds isn't enough, how about an infommercial?
You could show a lot of stuff in 30 minutes.
I have to give them credit for the Apple Stores though. To be able to walk in and play with just about anything in there is a great idea.
Yeah, that is very cool (I was just at the Atlanta one on Saturday). Very nice. But still: they aren't everywhere yet, so there needs to be a bit more on the other end to help out.
Look at that map on Apple's site and the latest issue of Macworld. Still huge chunks of the country where there isn't an Apple store within 8-12 hours drive. You can't just let those people "figure it out on their own", can you?
"He holds up Walt Disney, founder of Walt Disney Co., Bill Gates of Microsoft Corp., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. founder Sam Walton and Apple Computer Inc.'s Steve Jobs as examples of businessmen who properly marketed their companies without wasting money on advertising that did not generate profits."
Look at that map on Apple's site and the latest issue of Macworld. Still huge chunks of the country where there isn't an Apple store within 8-12 hours drive. You can't just let those people "figure it out on their own", can you?
I think something like 75% of the population is within 3 hours of a store. That's not bad, and I'm sure it'll improve.
As for the ads, I think one of the problems is that everyone already knows what a computer can do. Apple would need to show a way that they do something better. The iPod can show that. It's really tough for the rest of the iApps and impossible for a browser, email client and a lot of other software. I think Apple has to sell a brand because the product is a commodity.
That said, they could do more to push themselves on the Generation X let's say.
How can you. The public loved those ads--well the public not posting here.
Quote:
VW etc
You mean where the guy licks the car or the iPod/VW ad. Sorry but, VW ads are more obtuse than Apple ads. Bose does infomercials. Most car ads don't show product or talk about product--they imply some lifestyle or other prowess attainable with the purchase of the product. How much does driving to Maine for chowder, or racing around on a closed course really tell me about the car? The variability of your criteria for what constitutes "showing a product in detail" is disturbing.
Quote:
Besides, the only reason for Macs to exist is for the stuff you do on them...why NOT show them doing it a bit?
You mean like stuff you can do on any other computer running any other OS. In 30 seconds.
People know what computers do. Once again, you can't convey the experience of using an OS in an ad, except through implication, hence Apple's very deliberate lifestyle and coolness marketing. Its not perfect, by any means, but short of reducing product to commodity status and competing on solely on price, there is not much that can be done except build brand awareness (which is working) and use that to drive other intiatives.
Anders: So in other words, you disagree with my thesis that actually exposing people to Macs is more effective (and possibly uniquely effective) as a way of getting people to buy them?
Quote:
Originally posted by crazychester
Amorph, I agree the whole hands on thing is effective but it's only happening in the States. The Mac buying experience in Australia is abysmal and Europe doesn't sound much better. I mean what's the plan?
I can only hope that the plan is to do the effective thing. \
The state of Apple outside the US has always puzzled me. It seems to be permanently gimped. Maybe the combination of cultural familiarity (since the company is American) with the large market and omparatively uniform legal and contractual landscape makes a difference?
I honestly don't know. The last time I was in Europe, the Sinclair Spectrum was the #1 business computer in England.
Anders: So in other words, you disagree with my thesis that actually exposing people to Macs is more effective (and possibly uniquely effective) as a way of getting people to buy them?
No. i am saying that if advertising doesn´t work and poeple would somehow discover it (which they don´t seem to) then Apple just lost half of the channel that puts money into their machine.
When reading my posts outside AO ALWAYS assume that I am trying to derail the thread or simply trying to be a smart ass
Pardon me if this point has been made before, but I think there's one good reason (amongst the others made here by people like Amorph) as to why Apple's marketing strategy has been going the way it has.
I think that in a way, Apple already has a marketing force that's far more effective than simple advertising: *Mac users themselves*. It's easy to slap on some numbers and facts and figures like price, megahertz/gigahertz, etc., but it's not so easy to advertise the experience of using a Mac, which is after all, why we chose to go with the Mac in the first place.
When we were in the market for a computer many years ago, my family never even considered or much less heard of the Mac until one of my best friends told me about it. He showed me his (then) top-of-the-line Centris 650 and I was hooked. Now, even my mom "evangelizes" the Mac by telling her friends about it at work. (!) People ask me about my lowly iBook all the time and they're amazed at what I can do with it; that gets them really interested in the Mac, and even if it doesn't guarantee a sale for Apple, at least it gets them more aware about the Mac and Apple in general. I show them Aqua, the iApps, VPC, Office X, etc...IMO it's hard to replicate in an ad that same experience you get when there's someone with you, showing you what you can do, with the same level of technical knowledge that you have - which is something I think Apple tried to do with their "Switch" campaign.
My general impression with the people at Apple is that they're saying, "why spend excessive money on advertising when we have our users to do most of our advertising for us?" FWIW, I still pscates is right: we need some serious hard hitting Apple ads again - "Steamroller" Redux perhaps? (which would be a great ad for the PowerBook G5).
Maybe the combination of cultural familiarity (since the company is American) with the large market and omparatively uniform legal and contractual landscape makes a difference?
You don't really mean that do you? It doesn't seem to stop other computer companies. It doesn't stop other products that are American cultural icons from selling in huge numbers across the globe. Hell McDonalds produce individual product lines for specific countries. And OK, hardly anybody lives here and we're as far from everybody else as you can get. But what's their excuse in Europe?
Case in point. I got a 15 GB iPod just after they were released. I live in the city with the highest per capita income and highest level of computer literacy in the country. I am yet to meet anyone other than other Apple users who have ever heard of an iPod.
What iPod ad? While they do get mentioned in the tech press from time to time, I have seen not one iPod ad on television or in print. Why aren't they showing iPod ads during Australian Idol? Why arent there iPod ads running during the top rating TV shows for 12 - 35 year olds? If there is now a shortage of iPods then it is entirely through word of mouth advertising. And while that might be most cost effective for other products, surely the iPod is one product that would benefit hugely from a marketing blitz. It's sheer lunacy.
I've been running my PB G4 (15" Ti Book, 550MHz) for about 18months now. I bought it before heading off to uni for a degree in Engineering. I have solely run OS.X since I bought the machine and have long since removed OS9.2.2 from it entirely. Before that I had used PCs since 1989 since the days of DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 then all varients (95/98/98se/2000/2000 Server)
Why did I opt out of the PC world having just built myself a PC less than a year before? Because I was fed up with the inefficient Microsoft ladder and the problems that continuously plagued the platforms at whatever stage. I'd never used a Mac before in earnest, and I'm sure plenty of people are in a similar boat in the PC camp. I bought Office v.X with the Mac and also an assortment of Adobe apps (which I got on educational license for very little £££ so the fact I barely use them doesn't grate much) and it works fine
In other areas of my life I administer (though this role may be moving on) a Windows 2000 Server and 8 client stations running Win XP and 2000. I get irritated with this setup because whereas I used to not mind doing things on it, hey it pays a little money, now it is just irritating. Things work when I sit there and do them, but when the client does them it doesn't always work. Is it my fault? In the clients eyes yes, but without fail each time I sit there it works. Windows 2000 Server is the most evil concept ever. Microsoft decided to build in all the abilities to run a 5000 computer enterprise into the edition for 10 users, and then not give any hints as to what is and isn't needed. Yes I specced 2000 Server, because I didn't know better. Now for the needs one of the little Sun boxes or an eMac would be perfectly suitable. This network works in a fashion but really needs a guy there for a whole week to make it perfect, and that guy needs to know 2k Server inside out.
At my uni I have to use WinXP Pro stations for CAD work, and these are quick as reliable, but the reason is that it is an isolated network (only links for internet connection) of 60 machines with TWO servers and TWO FULL TIME Network Admins. And each time there is a problem the station is simply blanked and a new image put back.
I like my Mac. I like my Mac cos it just works. I don't care that I pay more for the hardware. It works, it looks good, and everyone who see it says "oh wow, a Mac, but you can't get software easily can you".
Now I'm not going to say it is perfect, cos I have a couple of niggles, maybe someone here knows the answers:
1. Safari doesn't work with ALL web pages, some do not display correctly with images and text piled on top of each other, which is why Netscape and IE5.2.2 haven't disappeared fully yet - example www.mmproductions.co.uk
2. Had to rebuild the Mac twice (not due to the Mac, but as a PC person it was all I knew to solve the problem) first time MSN (sorry but PC friends etc) would not log in, and removing and reinstalling didn't solve this (I'm thinking maybe hidden libraries somewhere?). Second time also because of M$ - Powerpoint would quit on opening, and reinstalling didn't help here either. Any answers as to what else I needed to remove besides office folder for a full install would be good.
3. One of the popular Engineering packages, Pro/Engineer by PTC is available on Windows and UNIX... PTC an OS.X version PLEASE!!! (Now a Dual G5 Pro/Eng station would be GOOD!)
4. All those prats telling me I should "upgrade" to MSN 6!!!!! lol
As an example of how uninformed people are, I have little trouble between switching Mac to PC - though my knowledge of where to go on a PC without being sat at it is fading somewhat. I have two friends both computer scientists. One is completely closed minded "I won't use a Mac, they are slow, you can't build them yourself, and you can't download software for them, they're just crap" Nowt I can say will change him. The other would like one but isn't sure about having to learn a new interface and a new way of doing things (that and I think he's afraid that he might prefer it)
Sure if you are a gamer then get the PC, however I'm content to put up with my G4/550 being a slower than the old P4 1.8Ghz because it always gets there in the end. Aside from the two M$ disasters it has NEVER died on me due to the OS. I had an IBM hard drive fail but Apple had it repaired and replaced inside 24hrs.
Apple will always be my first choice and I always suggest to friends that they try an Apple first if they want a good easy to use system, I'm even prepared to lend mine! As for the less good friends... I suggest Win 2000 and a P4. Enemies - WinXP and an AMD. Bad enemies get WinME
I'v only ever seen the switch campaign on apple's web site - where the only people who'll see it are already mac users.
we used to take all our students to the Apple Expo in London but as we drove towards the venue you'd never know there was an event on at all! contrast this with the CAD CAM show or something like that where the streets and billboards would be covered in ads
Even at the shows, apple would have a diddly stand and the rest of the venue was populated with 3rd party guys trying to sell you a magazine subscription
we take all the students to the digital media show every year. major companies are showing off state of the art top of the range pro pcs and digital audio visual gear - apple usually has a small presence with a few imacs or old G4s running iMovie!!!
I've never been to an education computing event where there have been any macs - apple just don't bother to show up.
Comments
Originally posted by MajorMatt
Today:
No one knows what a G5 is
No one knows what Mac OS X
No one knows what an iApp is
etc
Sigh.
I knew I didn't want to get involved in this discussion dammit. It's true, it's all true. Now I'm really bummed out. So in answer to your question pscates, yes.
Originally posted by Eugene
For a second, I thought you said you lie there and take it in the bum.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....oh that's funny...HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.....*wipe the tears*......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA......oh God....HAHAHAHAHAHAH......make it stop!....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Originally posted by Amorph
Well, my previous attempts to explain the dilemma Apple faces in advertizing appear to have failed miserably
Sorry, I just don't pay attention I guess...
Doesn't really seem to hang together much anyway. I still don't see the problem. Does it have to take such a huge, drastic step? All the things I speak about in the thread-opening post STILL hold true and carry weight: Apple has opted to simply show uninteresting people telling uninteresting stories as the lynchpin of one of their largest campaigns.
There were 50 other things they could've done in those 30 seconds instead.
And here's the thing: even IF they stayed with the Switch campaign/theme, is simply showing 30 seconds of nothing but regular schmos telling stories the most exciting, impactful way to do it? I've said it before, but why couldn't they have shown some hardware or software doing stuff WHILE the people were talking. I don't need to see Janie, stoner chick, that office woman, cop, vet or DJ for 30 seconds straight. I'd prefer NOT to. They could've kept on telling their stories while holding their PowerBooks or whatever and there could've been some really nice "eye candy" shots of the gear, BACKED UP by the storytelling.
If I knew enough about video and all, I'd re-edit those Switch commercials and do it right, just to show...
Face it: if Dell or Gateway came out with a commercial and ALL they showed were people rambling on for 30 seconds, we'd all laugh our asses off at the whole "so what?!?" nature of it all.
Apple shouldn't get a pass...
Okay, so they do this big "enterprise push". Best of luck to them. Great. ANOTHER 2-3 years of "seeing if it works" and slow, gradual coming around.
Whereas, my ideas or thoughts seem to work kinda in the "here and now" and address immediate concerns and might help, say, NOW and not in a year or two after studies are done, reports released, etc.
I really, really hope that some of you truly aren't of the opinion that what Apple is doing now, marketing/advertising-wise, is "as good as it gets" and represents "the best they can do". Because it's not. And you have know it.
Hell, there are commercials for Dr. Scholls gel inserts or Lysol shower cleaner that are more effective and inspiring to me than anything I've seen Apple put out! I actually want to buy those things and "be gellin'"! But if I didn't already use a Mac and love them, I can honestly say that nothing I've seen from Apple in the past 3 or so years would've have made me think once about giving them a try. Either too vague, too cutesy, too annoying, etc. Nothing has ever seemed to have any real meat, info or substance to it. All been style and surface, it seems.
Originally posted by Eugene
For a second, I thought you said you lie there and take it in the bum.
Wrong forum, E. Perv.
No one knows what a G5 is
No one knows what Mac OS X
No one knows what an iApp is
The majority of people don't need or care for or can afford a G5. Those who will buy will be reached through trade mag advertising.
An OS doesn't sell a computer anymore. Contrary to popular belief (here). The number of people moving up to XP from another Wintel OS is far below MS expectations, and Apple seems to have trouble moing people from OS6-OS9 to OSX. Despite both OSs being much better than their predecessors, its very hard to advertise incremental improvements over a large number of areas. Hence the shallow appearance appeal of aqua, or Microsoft's equally dumb advertising of anything but the OS--Messenger and Media Player.
You can't advertise crashes less, or the UI isn't as bad as the last version (though Apple did try the UI is prettier than last version). People have to use the OS to appreciate difference and Apple Stores are the correct way to do things. But that takes more time and money, and doesn't have the instant gratification forum members require.
For consumers the only iApp that counts is iTunes because of iTMS and the iPod. Apple screwed the pooch on iPhoto, and has to bust ass to make it work to the level of iTunes.
Face it: if Dell or Gateway came out with a commercial and ALL they showed were people rambling on for 30 seconds, we'd all laugh our asses off at the whole "so what?!?" nature of it all.
Dell intern ads. Or most any ad these days (especially car or beer ads). Look carefully and try to find a TV commercial where the product is shown in detail.
You could show a lot of stuff in 30 minutes.
I have to give them credit for the Apple Stores though. To be able to walk in and play with just about anything in there is a great idea.
Originally posted by cowerd
Dell intern ads.
I rest my case.
Or most any ad these days (especially car or beer ads). Look carefully and try to find a TV commercial where the product is shown in detail.
Infiniti, Jaguar, VW, Bose, various prescription medications, fast food, Appleby's, Coca-Cola, spaghetti sauce, Cingular, etc.
Shall I go on?
Besides, the only reason for Macs to exist is for the stuff you do on them...why NOT show them doing it a bit? It's not meant to be a $1799 paper weight.
I don't think Apple is going to go the T&A route of your typical beer commercial, so let's nip that one in the bud right off the bat...
Some of the above show a nice mixture (which is all I've asked for) of the product and other things. I never said it has to be 30 seconds solid of product! But it sure as hell doesn't need to be 30 seconds of goofy-looking people droning on about their trials and tribulations before they bought a Mac.
A nice balance, perhaps, between the two? What, exactly, is so horrible and incomprehensible about that? Do you, personally, get a huge kick out of the Switch ads, just as they are? I sure don't.
But put all that aside and let's go back to what I mentioned in the thread-opening post: here were are, nearly a year later: WHAT has changed? HAVE these Switch ads created a huge, incredible migration to the platform? Have the numbers switched up dramatically on any sort of reasonable, positive scale?
Not that I'm aware of. So if you judge it by THAT (and you should, really), it's a bit of a miserable, time-wasting failure IMO.
They ARE NOT COMPELLING. They don't grab you. They don't make you curious about Apple or the Mac. They just don't. I'm sorry, but it's just true. They suck, they tanked and a year later there really isn't that much different to show for the effort, is there?
Again, who's at fault? Who has proven, time and again, to be completely incapable of creating an arresting, eye-popping campaign that makes people really want to investigate this stuff further?
Again, either piss or get off the pot, Apple. If you're serios about marketshare and all, then DO something real. If not, then that's cool too. Just shut up about it and revel in your cool, niche status. Nothing wrong with that either.
Originally posted by ryukyu
If 30-60 seconds isn't enough, how about an infommercial?
You could show a lot of stuff in 30 minutes.
I have to give them credit for the Apple Stores though. To be able to walk in and play with just about anything in there is a great idea.
Yeah, that is very cool (I was just at the Atlanta one on Saturday). Very nice. But still: they aren't everywhere yet, so there needs to be a bit more on the other end to help out.
Look at that map on Apple's site and the latest issue of Macworld. Still huge chunks of the country where there isn't an Apple store within 8-12 hours drive. You can't just let those people "figure it out on their own", can you?
The "experts" seem to feel differently on the subject:
Forbes Article
Here's a quote from the article:
"He holds up Walt Disney, founder of Walt Disney Co., Bill Gates of Microsoft Corp., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. founder Sam Walton and Apple Computer Inc.'s Steve Jobs as examples of businessmen who properly marketed their companies without wasting money on advertising that did not generate profits."
Originally posted by pscates
Look at that map on Apple's site and the latest issue of Macworld. Still huge chunks of the country where there isn't an Apple store within 8-12 hours drive. You can't just let those people "figure it out on their own", can you?
I think something like 75% of the population is within 3 hours of a store. That's not bad, and I'm sure it'll improve.
As for the ads, I think one of the problems is that everyone already knows what a computer can do. Apple would need to show a way that they do something better. The iPod can show that. It's really tough for the rest of the iApps and impossible for a browser, email client and a lot of other software. I think Apple has to sell a brand because the product is a commodity.
That said, they could do more to push themselves on the Generation X let's say.
I rest my case.
How can you. The public loved those ads--well the public not posting here.
VW etc
You mean where the guy licks the car or the iPod/VW ad. Sorry but, VW ads are more obtuse than Apple ads. Bose does infomercials. Most car ads don't show product or talk about product--they imply some lifestyle or other prowess attainable with the purchase of the product. How much does driving to Maine for chowder, or racing around on a closed course really tell me about the car? The variability of your criteria for what constitutes "showing a product in detail" is disturbing.
Besides, the only reason for Macs to exist is for the stuff you do on them...why NOT show them doing it a bit?
You mean like stuff you can do on any other computer running any other OS. In 30 seconds.
People know what computers do. Once again, you can't convey the experience of using an OS in an ad, except through implication, hence Apple's very deliberate lifestyle and coolness marketing. Its not perfect, by any means, but short of reducing product to commodity status and competing on solely on price, there is not much that can be done except build brand awareness (which is working) and use that to drive other intiatives.
Originally posted by crazychester
Amorph, I agree the whole hands on thing is effective but it's only happening in the States. The Mac buying experience in Australia is abysmal and Europe doesn't sound much better. I mean what's the plan?
I can only hope that the plan is to do the effective thing.
The state of Apple outside the US has always puzzled me. It seems to be permanently gimped. Maybe the combination of cultural familiarity (since the company is American) with the large market and omparatively uniform legal and contractual landscape makes a difference?
I honestly don't know. The last time I was in Europe, the Sinclair Spectrum was the #1 business computer in England.
Originally posted by Amorph
Anders: So in other words, you disagree with my thesis that actually exposing people to Macs is more effective (and possibly uniquely effective) as a way of getting people to buy them?
No. i am saying that if advertising doesn´t work and poeple would somehow discover it (which they don´t seem to) then Apple just lost half of the channel that puts money into their machine.
When reading my posts outside AO ALWAYS assume that I am trying to derail the thread or simply trying to be a smart ass
I think that in a way, Apple already has a marketing force that's far more effective than simple advertising: *Mac users themselves*. It's easy to slap on some numbers and facts and figures like price, megahertz/gigahertz, etc., but it's not so easy to advertise the experience of using a Mac, which is after all, why we chose to go with the Mac in the first place.
When we were in the market for a computer many years ago, my family never even considered or much less heard of the Mac until one of my best friends told me about it. He showed me his (then) top-of-the-line Centris 650 and I was hooked. Now, even my mom "evangelizes" the Mac by telling her friends about it at work. (!) People ask me about my lowly iBook all the time and they're amazed at what I can do with it; that gets them really interested in the Mac, and even if it doesn't guarantee a sale for Apple, at least it gets them more aware about the Mac and Apple in general. I show them Aqua, the iApps, VPC, Office X, etc...IMO it's hard to replicate in an ad that same experience you get when there's someone with you, showing you what you can do, with the same level of technical knowledge that you have - which is something I think Apple tried to do with their "Switch" campaign.
My general impression with the people at Apple is that they're saying, "why spend excessive money on advertising when we have our users to do most of our advertising for us?" FWIW, I still pscates is right: we need some serious hard hitting Apple ads again - "Steamroller" Redux perhaps? (which would be a great ad for the PowerBook G5).
Originally posted by Amorph
Maybe the combination of cultural familiarity (since the company is American) with the large market and omparatively uniform legal and contractual landscape makes a difference?
You don't really mean that do you? It doesn't seem to stop other computer companies. It doesn't stop other products that are American cultural icons from selling in huge numbers across the globe. Hell McDonalds produce individual product lines for specific countries. And OK, hardly anybody lives here and we're as far from everybody else as you can get. But what's their excuse in Europe?
Case in point. I got a 15 GB iPod just after they were released. I live in the city with the highest per capita income and highest level of computer literacy in the country. I am yet to meet anyone other than other Apple users who have ever heard of an iPod.
What iPod ad? While they do get mentioned in the tech press from time to time, I have seen not one iPod ad on television or in print. Why aren't they showing iPod ads during Australian Idol? Why arent there iPod ads running during the top rating TV shows for 12 - 35 year olds? If there is now a shortage of iPods then it is entirely through word of mouth advertising. And while that might be most cost effective for other products, surely the iPod is one product that would benefit hugely from a marketing blitz. It's sheer lunacy.
Why did I opt out of the PC world having just built myself a PC less than a year before? Because I was fed up with the inefficient Microsoft ladder and the problems that continuously plagued the platforms at whatever stage. I'd never used a Mac before in earnest, and I'm sure plenty of people are in a similar boat in the PC camp. I bought Office v.X with the Mac and also an assortment of Adobe apps (which I got on educational license for very little £££ so the fact I barely use them doesn't grate much) and it works fine
In other areas of my life I administer (though this role may be moving on) a Windows 2000 Server and 8 client stations running Win XP and 2000. I get irritated with this setup because whereas I used to not mind doing things on it, hey it pays a little money, now it is just irritating. Things work when I sit there and do them, but when the client does them it doesn't always work. Is it my fault? In the clients eyes yes, but without fail each time I sit there it works. Windows 2000 Server is the most evil concept ever. Microsoft decided to build in all the abilities to run a 5000 computer enterprise into the edition for 10 users, and then not give any hints as to what is and isn't needed. Yes I specced 2000 Server, because I didn't know better. Now for the needs one of the little Sun boxes or an eMac would be perfectly suitable. This network works in a fashion but really needs a guy there for a whole week to make it perfect, and that guy needs to know 2k Server inside out.
At my uni I have to use WinXP Pro stations for CAD work, and these are quick as reliable, but the reason is that it is an isolated network (only links for internet connection) of 60 machines with TWO servers and TWO FULL TIME Network Admins. And each time there is a problem the station is simply blanked and a new image put back.
I like my Mac. I like my Mac cos it just works. I don't care that I pay more for the hardware. It works, it looks good, and everyone who see it says "oh wow, a Mac, but you can't get software easily can you".
Now I'm not going to say it is perfect, cos I have a couple of niggles, maybe someone here knows the answers:
1. Safari doesn't work with ALL web pages, some do not display correctly with images and text piled on top of each other, which is why Netscape and IE5.2.2 haven't disappeared fully yet - example www.mmproductions.co.uk
2. Had to rebuild the Mac twice (not due to the Mac, but as a PC person it was all I knew to solve the problem) first time MSN (sorry but PC friends etc) would not log in, and removing and reinstalling didn't solve this (I'm thinking maybe hidden libraries somewhere?). Second time also because of M$ - Powerpoint would quit on opening, and reinstalling didn't help here either. Any answers as to what else I needed to remove besides office folder for a full install would be good.
3. One of the popular Engineering packages, Pro/Engineer by PTC is available on Windows and UNIX... PTC an OS.X version PLEASE!!! (Now a Dual G5 Pro/Eng station would be GOOD!)
4. All those prats telling me I should "upgrade" to MSN 6!!!!! lol
As an example of how uninformed people are, I have little trouble between switching Mac to PC - though my knowledge of where to go on a PC without being sat at it is fading somewhat. I have two friends both computer scientists. One is completely closed minded "I won't use a Mac, they are slow, you can't build them yourself, and you can't download software for them, they're just crap" Nowt I can say will change him. The other would like one but isn't sure about having to learn a new interface and a new way of doing things (that and I think he's afraid that he might prefer it)
Sure if you are a gamer then get the PC, however I'm content to put up with my G4/550 being a slower than the old P4 1.8Ghz because it always gets there in the end. Aside from the two M$ disasters it has NEVER died on me due to the OS. I had an IBM hard drive fail but Apple had it repaired and replaced inside 24hrs.
Apple will always be my first choice and I always suggest to friends that they try an Apple first if they want a good easy to use system, I'm even prepared to lend mine! As for the less good friends... I suggest Win 2000 and a P4. Enemies - WinXP and an AMD. Bad enemies get WinME
My views
Chris
I have never seen an apple ad on television.
I've never seen an apple billboard
I'v only ever seen the switch campaign on apple's web site - where the only people who'll see it are already mac users.
we used to take all our students to the Apple Expo in London but as we drove towards the venue you'd never know there was an event on at all! contrast this with the CAD CAM show or something like that where the streets and billboards would be covered in ads
Even at the shows, apple would have a diddly stand and the rest of the venue was populated with 3rd party guys trying to sell you a magazine subscription
we take all the students to the digital media show every year. major companies are showing off state of the art top of the range pro pcs and digital audio visual gear - apple usually has a small presence with a few imacs or old G4s running iMovie!!!
I've never been to an education computing event where there have been any macs - apple just don't bother to show up.
what are they playing at?
Originally posted by spooky I agree totally with pscates
My kinda member! Stick around...you'll go far.