Personally, I think that if someone is going to make an ill-informed decision, such as your friend seems to, scates, I say: too bad. It's their job to find out about things like this. It's like someone saying "I'd shop at x, but they I KNOW they don't have what I want." That's just laziness. If you're going to plunk down $1k+, it's your job to know the options. I've got little patience for laziness right now.....
Well, he wasn't buying one. He just didn't know it existed. No harm done.
But I disagree, on balance. Yeah, you SHOULD educate yourself on major purchases...I always do (Internet, Consumer Reports, questioning others, etc.). But there's always a spark and a place to start. Something to initially set me off on a direction that involves a particular brand.
And you know what? It's tough comparing something like computers to cars or electronics (stereos, TVs, etc.). I mean, when it comes down to it you have two choices (forget Linux and all that other crap and let's deal in the real world): Windows or Mac.
I'd imagine that for MOST people it comes down to "which PC?" (by PC, I mean which Windows-based computer).
But I'm aware of JVC, Sony, Panasonic, etc. when I go to look at TVs, stereos, DVD stuff, etc. You can't help but be. But the Mac...if you don't know it's there (through advertising and so forth), how would you know to even consider it or give it a shot? I'd imagine that a great number of people don't. Most stores don't carry them, not every city has a CompUSA and even fewer have Apple stores.
That's the whole point here. If someone weighs everything out and decides - with ALL the evidence and info - that a Mac isn't for them, that's totally cool. What do I care? But it's hard even getting to that part because it doesn't even make it on the typical new buyer's "possibilities" list. Do you know how many people I've known over the years who, when faced with the prospect of getting a new computer, pretty much say to me "hey, ride with me over to Staples and help me...".
The things most people I know want to do with a computer is BEAUTIFULLY handled on a Mac (surfing, e-mail, music, photos, video, wireless Internet access, etc.). I just think it's lame and a bit sad that, due to no one else's fault but Apple's, most people don't even KNOW they could or should consider a Mac.
Now, if someone DOES consider a Mac (they hear about them or whatever) and fails to do further research and educate themselves, then yes...they are a flaming idiot and I too really have no patience with the typical dumb-butt buying crap they don't know anything about. But it's not the typical consumer's fault - initially - if a Mac of some sort isn't entering their field of vision and making their list of things to investigate further.
I guarantee you (only because I deal with it on a monthly basis it seems) most people (see my "local mall" reference in an earlier post) have NO idea it's even there as an option. Or if it IS there, they think all these stupid things about it ("oh, they're going out of business...", "Apple filed for bankruptcy, didn't they?", "Microsoft actually owns Apple...", etc.).
I don't know.
I don't have patience for some things EITHER. One of them being, lately, Apple's piss-poor approach to touting their wares to the average Joe and Jill out there.
A. As someone said earlier in the thread, if Macs were to start selling at a high rate then the platform is in danger of getting watered down. There is the danger of gettin PC schmucks who like to dick around with viruses moving over as well. The more marketshare Apple has the less incentive it has to innovate.
B. If your going to do an Apple ad campaign right, besides the hands on experience at retail outlets, then I think you have to do a lifestyle ad. Show the lifestyle of a Mac user, someone at a coffee shop on their Powerbook, or someone on a university campus with their ibook and ipod. A kid playing a game on the imac. etc...
A demo on how the OS works would bore people and an explaination on the specs would confuse them, since they are used to PCs rocking larger numbers.
I recently mentioned an idea where Apple could partner with a certain coffee chain to start an internet cafe chain with imacs or powerbooks. Get your smoothie or caffeine fix with the OS X experience.
A. That's kinda a closed, elitist way to go about it, isn't it? Shouldn't we welcome more to the fold and not be a little closed society of snobby assholes?
B. A "lifestyle" ad would be fine. Notice that I never advocated some dry, "read off the specs" type of ad. Ever. But something that straddles the line between some meat and potato info AND being visually entertaining, either with humor, a captivating little story or stunning visuals or whatever. Don't tell me it can't be done...we see it ALL THE TIME.
Sadly, just not from Apple...
No, the last thing I'd want is some boring-ass dry read-through of tech talk...what makes anyone here think I'd want that? But yes: a family doing the photo thing, a campus scenario, a workplace thing. There could be a series...some meant to dispel myths and set the record a bit straighter. Some meant to simply show that the Mac is made - from the ground up - to work wonderfully with digital music, photos, video, etc. You know...all the stuff that most people seem to be dabbling in these days?
Sorry, I'm not trying to be an elitist prick. I was just saying is that if Macs were to enjoy the same success in sales as PCs there is a much greater chance that the Mac community picks up the type of miscreants that have plagued the Window world, one of the blessings of Apples small market share. With Apples slow growth it ensures that those who use Macs actually care about getting a good product and not a trendy, be in the crowd product.
The other thing I mentioned is as a company enjoys more sales success and achieves a certain amount of growth, it often no longer feels it neccessary to innovate, it becomes stagnant. I doubt that Apple is immune to such a possibility.
My final idea is somethin I'd like feedback on, the Mac internet cafe IMO is superb, coffee shops are still very popular, if they link up w/ Starbucks then it could benefit them both. It would be very hip and a chance for 1st exposure to a Mac for a lot of people, (oh, honey,these computers are lovely, lets check out e-mail while we sip our cappucinos.)
Maybe, but bear in mind: I'm not talking about (or expecting) some miraculous leap to 78% marketshare. I don't ever think Apple will become the "big guy on the block", but I certainly wouldn't mind a healthy, respectable 10-15%. Maybe even a bit more?
And here's something else: the people I'm talking about, and WANT to come over aren't the typical riff-raff and buttheads. Yeah, that might be a small part of the newcomers, but I'm speaking mostly of consumers, students, soccer moms, grannies, etc. I'm not expecting this huge influx of diehard PC types of the spec whore ilk who, no matter what, would NEVER consider Macs. They're happy with their PCs and they like to tinker. That's cool.
But MOST people don't. They want to plug in their stuff and know it's going to work, just as it did yesterday and last week.
In any case, I say "the more the merrier". I'll roll the dice on the small chance some shitheads make it into the ranks if it means that, overall, Macs are a tad more accepted and given consideration by your typical newbie, family, small business, etc. when they go to buy a new computer.
Again, do we just settle for this 3-5% when we know damn well that it could - and SHOULD - be much more? If so, then fine. I'd prefer to set the bar a tad higher though...
You know, it's funny: EVERY time I'm in a thread like this (either of my own starting or simply stopping by to participate and offer my 19 cents) I'm always amazed at the "no we can't...", borderline complacent/defeatist attitude and outlook by some. Usually, it's the same 3-4 people who offer, in effect, a bunch of weird reasons why Apple can't, shouldn't, couldn't, won't, etc. do better.
It's almost as if it's not allowed or expected.
Seems some of you view advertising or slightly more aggressive marketing as a one-way, automatic ticket to Cheeseville. Then there's the crowd that seems to fear an influx of marauding PC refugees, somehow "gumming up the works" and "diluting the bloodline". And then a few here - who I really admire and respect on every other topic or post - just offer up vague, "why it can't be" or "let's not rock any boats because we don't know what lies ahead...".
I just find it mildly amusing that many here simply seem resigned to a small, ultra-niche sort of status and existence. And that anything different from the current ineffective, bland, tired and uninspiring crop of commercials and marketing is not to be desired.
If it wasn't Apple and, instead, another company you liked and were a big fan of, wouldn't you be a bit irked at how they just seem to kinda "sit there" at times? Part of me honestly wonders if the whole Motorola thing has somehow lowered our views and expectations and many have simply come to believe "hey, we take what we can get...let's not waver TOO far off track, pscates".
Meanwhile, I'm toting more and more of a "screw that!" outlook, KNOWING that Apple possesses the best OS, the best hardware and the best overall user experience...and that they could, very well, own a larger, more influential chunk of the pie, if only there seemed to be some will and passion to do so.
I have to agree with alot of what has been said. I just have a good i dea for a tv spot.
The add is dirivitave of the honda comercial with all the different things honda makes then it goes "you thought we only made cars"
it would start with a person taking photos with a digi-cam then using i photo on an imac then sending to fam member using g5 while ichatav is leeting them talk. Then that persons computer is being used by kid with itunes loads ipod goes on class field trip captured on minidv-cam then teacher use emac to edit with i movie and burns vcd's.
the add would highlight the digital hub theme with connected-ness
I have to agree with alot of what has been said. I just have a good i dea for a tv spot.
The add is dirivitave of the honda comercial with all the different things honda makes then it goes "you thought we only made cars"
I like that idea. The danger is, as we've gone over many times before, people will want Apple to explain their products, when they should only have to represent them, pique interest. That's what's good about the Honda ad: it just shows their products in action, it doesn't need to or try to explain them, how they work, who they're for, how they stack up against the competition, etc. A 30 minute Apple infomercial at 3am isn't going to make a difference, and it can't play during prime time TV.
Too bad they probably couldn't make a commercial like the Rue Goldberg out of Accord parts.
I like Apple's advertising and think that it's been working, but...
First, we don't see the effects of an increase in consumer marketshare because Apple's been getting nailed harder and harder in education. We can argue about the value of the edu market later. But since edu institutions aren't typically swayed by adverts, we might say that their campaigns are reaching more consumers, you just don't see the benefits right now because those gains have been negated by edu losses at the bottom line.
This means that Apple's ability to sell to institutions has been increaingly comprimised, not their ability to reach the general public through advertising.
Second, without price and performance you don't have a heck of a lot to advertise. Advertising is a numbers game, cheap and dirty, like sex. You can offer either numbers or sex, and though Apple comes real close for some people, you just can't make computers as sexy as cars/jewelry/vacations/alcohol... it's a geek world. When people buy macs/PC's they feed the inner geek. Apple's adverst do a good job of geek-chic.
So, what they're really after, I suspect, is a sort of groundswell, with consumer demand building slowly as the stores send out the first waves of RDF intot he general population. Apple can put it out there and let people discover the mac at a pace Apple production can deal with.
For it to really kick into high gear, though, they're going to need far more affordable consumer models, that and an infomercial wouldn't hurt either. If the shopping channels won't do it for a reasonable cut, fvck'em! Apple can write their own commercial and air it (and buy time) locally on small stations that are glad to take your 976 psuedo porn-date-get-rich-quick money.
Just a little reminder: Apple's consumer share is now 6%, and their share of the laptop market is now 7%.
When gauging the effect of their advertizing, don't forget that they're up against the mother of all network effects (in many cases, quite literally). Nothing they do is going to gain them more than a few tics in any direction; they have to do lots of things, hit from many sides, and accept that it'll be a while before anything they do bears fruit.
But they are moving forward. 7% of the laptop market. That's progress.
With the Apple products I don't think a bare product promotion ad is going to work. Not these days, like I said the best way to do a commercial would be a lifestyle campaign showing how Macs make you life easier, more fun, sexier etc... Make the Mac lifestyle the Ultra-Hip, 21st century, wired, on the go family lifestyle. IMO
Another idea for the hands on route are Mac internet kiosks in airports, malls and other high traffic areas, featuring ITMS. Maybe have powered by Apple displayed prominantly. Offer disk burning for an additional fee, make a oneway Firewire port available for iPod downloads.
I think I have said this elsewhere... had Apple ported CounterStrike back then, it would have courted a whole generation of teenagers who by now would/may have grown past simple FPS games and are now into creative (iApps) applications, UNIX stuff, and so on.
Would have been more effective than the Switch ADs, IMHO.
7% of the laptop market is quite encouraging, as 6% of consumer machines. But they're still hovering in the 2.5-3% range for worldwide units. Makes me wonder where they'd be if they hadn't got hammered in edu for the past 5 years, or if they made any real effort in some of the non-US markets where the price difference is seriously amplified? 10% might have already been closer thn expected.
Comments
But I disagree, on balance. Yeah, you SHOULD educate yourself on major purchases...I always do (Internet, Consumer Reports, questioning others, etc.). But there's always a spark and a place to start. Something to initially set me off on a direction that involves a particular brand.
And you know what? It's tough comparing something like computers to cars or electronics (stereos, TVs, etc.). I mean, when it comes down to it you have two choices (forget Linux and all that other crap and let's deal in the real world): Windows or Mac.
I'd imagine that for MOST people it comes down to "which PC?" (by PC, I mean which Windows-based computer).
But I'm aware of JVC, Sony, Panasonic, etc. when I go to look at TVs, stereos, DVD stuff, etc. You can't help but be. But the Mac...if you don't know it's there (through advertising and so forth), how would you know to even consider it or give it a shot? I'd imagine that a great number of people don't. Most stores don't carry them, not every city has a CompUSA and even fewer have Apple stores.
That's the whole point here. If someone weighs everything out and decides - with ALL the evidence and info - that a Mac isn't for them, that's totally cool. What do I care? But it's hard even getting to that part because it doesn't even make it on the typical new buyer's "possibilities" list. Do you know how many people I've known over the years who, when faced with the prospect of getting a new computer, pretty much say to me "hey, ride with me over to Staples and help me...".
The things most people I know want to do with a computer is BEAUTIFULLY handled on a Mac (surfing, e-mail, music, photos, video, wireless Internet access, etc.). I just think it's lame and a bit sad that, due to no one else's fault but Apple's, most people don't even KNOW they could or should consider a Mac.
Now, if someone DOES consider a Mac (they hear about them or whatever) and fails to do further research and educate themselves, then yes...they are a flaming idiot and I too really have no patience with the typical dumb-butt buying crap they don't know anything about. But it's not the typical consumer's fault - initially - if a Mac of some sort isn't entering their field of vision and making their list of things to investigate further.
I guarantee you (only because I deal with it on a monthly basis it seems) most people (see my "local mall" reference in an earlier post) have NO idea it's even there as an option. Or if it IS there, they think all these stupid things about it ("oh, they're going out of business...", "Apple filed for bankruptcy, didn't they?", "Microsoft actually owns Apple...", etc.).
I don't know.
I don't have patience for some things EITHER. One of them being, lately, Apple's piss-poor approach to touting their wares to the average Joe and Jill out there.
B. If your going to do an Apple ad campaign right, besides the hands on experience at retail outlets, then I think you have to do a lifestyle ad. Show the lifestyle of a Mac user, someone at a coffee shop on their Powerbook, or someone on a university campus with their ibook and ipod. A kid playing a game on the imac. etc...
A demo on how the OS works would bore people and an explaination on the specs would confuse them, since they are used to PCs rocking larger numbers.
I recently mentioned an idea where Apple could partner with a certain coffee chain to start an internet cafe chain with imacs or powerbooks. Get your smoothie or caffeine fix with the OS X experience.
B. A "lifestyle" ad would be fine. Notice that I never advocated some dry, "read off the specs" type of ad. Ever. But something that straddles the line between some meat and potato info AND being visually entertaining, either with humor, a captivating little story or stunning visuals or whatever. Don't tell me it can't be done...we see it ALL THE TIME.
Sadly, just not from Apple...
No, the last thing I'd want is some boring-ass dry read-through of tech talk...what makes anyone here think I'd want that? But yes: a family doing the photo thing, a campus scenario, a workplace thing. There could be a series...some meant to dispel myths and set the record a bit straighter. Some meant to simply show that the Mac is made - from the ground up - to work wonderfully with digital music, photos, video, etc. You know...all the stuff that most people seem to be dabbling in these days?
The other thing I mentioned is as a company enjoys more sales success and achieves a certain amount of growth, it often no longer feels it neccessary to innovate, it becomes stagnant. I doubt that Apple is immune to such a possibility.
My final idea is somethin I'd like feedback on, the Mac internet cafe IMO is superb, coffee shops are still very popular, if they link up w/ Starbucks then it could benefit them both. It would be very hip and a chance for 1st exposure to a Mac for a lot of people, (oh, honey,these computers are lovely, lets check out e-mail while we sip our cappucinos.)
And here's something else: the people I'm talking about, and WANT to come over aren't the typical riff-raff and buttheads. Yeah, that might be a small part of the newcomers, but I'm speaking mostly of consumers, students, soccer moms, grannies, etc. I'm not expecting this huge influx of diehard PC types of the spec whore ilk who, no matter what, would NEVER consider Macs. They're happy with their PCs and they like to tinker. That's cool.
But MOST people don't. They want to plug in their stuff and know it's going to work, just as it did yesterday and last week.
In any case, I say "the more the merrier". I'll roll the dice on the small chance some shitheads make it into the ranks if it means that, overall, Macs are a tad more accepted and given consideration by your typical newbie, family, small business, etc. when they go to buy a new computer.
Again, do we just settle for this 3-5% when we know damn well that it could - and SHOULD - be much more? If so, then fine. I'd prefer to set the bar a tad higher though...
You know, it's funny: EVERY time I'm in a thread like this (either of my own starting or simply stopping by to participate and offer my 19 cents) I'm always amazed at the "no we can't...", borderline complacent/defeatist attitude and outlook by some. Usually, it's the same 3-4 people who offer, in effect, a bunch of weird reasons why Apple can't, shouldn't, couldn't, won't, etc. do better.
It's almost as if it's not allowed or expected.
Seems some of you view advertising or slightly more aggressive marketing as a one-way, automatic ticket to Cheeseville. Then there's the crowd that seems to fear an influx of marauding PC refugees, somehow "gumming up the works" and "diluting the bloodline". And then a few here - who I really admire and respect on every other topic or post - just offer up vague, "why it can't be" or "let's not rock any boats because we don't know what lies ahead...".
I just find it mildly amusing that many here simply seem resigned to a small, ultra-niche sort of status and existence. And that anything different from the current ineffective, bland, tired and uninspiring crop of commercials and marketing is not to be desired.
If it wasn't Apple and, instead, another company you liked and were a big fan of, wouldn't you be a bit irked at how they just seem to kinda "sit there" at times? Part of me honestly wonders if the whole Motorola thing has somehow lowered our views and expectations and many have simply come to believe "hey, we take what we can get...let's not waver TOO far off track, pscates".
Meanwhile, I'm toting more and more of a "screw that!" outlook, KNOWING that Apple possesses the best OS, the best hardware and the best overall user experience...and that they could, very well, own a larger, more influential chunk of the pie, if only there seemed to be some will and passion to do so.
Very disheartening at times...
The add is dirivitave of the honda comercial with all the different things honda makes then it goes "you thought we only made cars"
it would start with a person taking photos with a digi-cam then using i photo on an imac then sending to fam member using g5 while ichatav is leeting them talk. Then that persons computer is being used by kid with itunes loads ipod goes on class field trip captured on minidv-cam then teacher use emac to edit with i movie and burns vcd's.
the add would highlight the digital hub theme with connected-ness
Originally posted by xterra48
I have to agree with alot of what has been said. I just have a good i dea for a tv spot.
The add is dirivitave of the honda comercial with all the different things honda makes then it goes "you thought we only made cars"
I like that idea. The danger is, as we've gone over many times before, people will want Apple to explain their products, when they should only have to represent them, pique interest. That's what's good about the Honda ad: it just shows their products in action, it doesn't need to or try to explain them, how they work, who they're for, how they stack up against the competition, etc. A 30 minute Apple infomercial at 3am isn't going to make a difference, and it can't play during prime time TV.
Too bad they probably couldn't make a commercial like the Rue Goldberg out of Accord parts.
First, we don't see the effects of an increase in consumer marketshare because Apple's been getting nailed harder and harder in education. We can argue about the value of the edu market later. But since edu institutions aren't typically swayed by adverts, we might say that their campaigns are reaching more consumers, you just don't see the benefits right now because those gains have been negated by edu losses at the bottom line.
This means that Apple's ability to sell to institutions has been increaingly comprimised, not their ability to reach the general public through advertising.
Second, without price and performance you don't have a heck of a lot to advertise. Advertising is a numbers game, cheap and dirty, like sex. You can offer either numbers or sex, and though Apple comes real close for some people, you just can't make computers as sexy as cars/jewelry/vacations/alcohol... it's a geek world. When people buy macs/PC's they feed the inner geek. Apple's adverst do a good job of geek-chic.
So, what they're really after, I suspect, is a sort of groundswell, with consumer demand building slowly as the stores send out the first waves of RDF intot he general population. Apple can put it out there and let people discover the mac at a pace Apple production can deal with.
For it to really kick into high gear, though, they're going to need far more affordable consumer models, that and an infomercial wouldn't hurt either. If the shopping channels won't do it for a reasonable cut, fvck'em! Apple can write their own commercial and air it (and buy time) locally on small stations that are glad to take your 976 psuedo porn-date-get-rich-quick money.
People have purchased VW Beetles and refused to take the iPod.
The computer for the select few. Purchase an iBook or a Powerbook; the burns are free. FORM AND FUNCTION!
Aries 1B
When gauging the effect of their advertizing, don't forget that they're up against the mother of all network effects (in many cases, quite literally). Nothing they do is going to gain them more than a few tics in any direction; they have to do lots of things, hit from many sides, and accept that it'll be a while before anything they do bears fruit.
But they are moving forward. 7% of the laptop market. That's progress.
Another idea for the hands on route are Mac internet kiosks in airports, malls and other high traffic areas, featuring ITMS. Maybe have powered by Apple displayed prominantly. Offer disk burning for an additional fee, make a oneway Firewire port available for iPod downloads.
Would have been more effective than the Switch ADs, IMHO.