A country can be racist without the whole population being racist. And I do think the country has come a long way... however... racism is alive and well... no one doubts this. And all races. religous groups... sexes are guilty of seeking their interests at the expense of others... But a person or group has to have power in order for their ignorance to have any effect.
You seem to confuse past with the present alot.
I don't fully doubt racism is alive and well. Especially when it is practiced by so many in the Democratic party.
And as for your contention that you need to have power for your racism/ignorance to have any effect, that is bull. If anything it can simply poison the possibility or real progress. I don't mistake the past for the present. You simple want to pretend that nothing has changed when it has.
This is like the past of sexual harassment versus now. It was about a boss, with power, using it to get sex from a employee. Now it is about someone telling a dirty joke and creating a "hostile work environment" as a result.
Racism use to be about Jim Crow laws, seperate but equal, not being allowed to marry who you want or live where you want. Now it is about something thinking he was very articulate speaking (for a black man) and the most subtle different thought related to race.
Speaking of campaigns, I'm attending one of the 700+ Dean in 2004 Meetups tonight @ 7:00. Over 100,000 people are gathering across the country in support of Gov. Dean!
You haven't come up with an example of the present day democratic party being racist. You keep saying that it is but it doesn't make it true.
And there's a difference between prejudice and racism.
As there is a difference between ignorance and hatred.
I believe I mentioned Jackson and Bustemante, both much more modern the 60's. Cruz belongs to MeChA. Their symbol is an eagle clutching dynamite. Many MeChA websites also link to a "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan" or document for creating a seperate country/land/segregation for Latinos.
Bustamante also had to apologize for using n-word during a speech.
Al Sharpton has called Jews "Diamond merchants" and "white interlopers."
Diane Watson, speaking about Ward Connerly, "He's married a white woman. He wants to be white. He wants a colorless society. He has no ethnic pride. He doesn't want to be black. I said that."
Donna Brazile, Gore campaign manager "I will not let the white boys win in this election."
I don't think any of these folks were "ignorant" of whom they were speaking about. They are racists.
Make up your mind. Oh wait... you're full of shhh...
Going to inner city schools and reading to black children and claiming no child will be left behind... when you come from a state that left alot of kids not just behind... but left out... to improve the states ranking... is pretty hypocritcal. The state is TEXAS by the way.
Claiming the democratic party is racist is pure fantasy.
Your stupidity does amaze. His state is over 96% white and he has already been criticized by DEMOCRATS for his lack of minority outreach.
Likewise I don't give a damn how much you want to characterize Republicans as racist. The Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights bill, broke up the union over slavery, and despite massive token actions have done little to nothing for minority communities
Nick
No, my friend. YOU pulled out the race card in this thread and then had the gall to be offended when I called you on it. I didn't characterize ANYONE as being racist. I was just pointing out HYPOCRISY in politics. Personally, I can't stand it when anyone tries to play the race card.
Your stupidity does amaze. His state is over 96% white and he has already been criticized by DEMOCRATS for his lack of minority outreach.
Likewise I don't give a damn how much you want to characterize Republicans as racist. The Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights bill, broke up the union over slavery, and despite massive token actions have done little to nothing for minority communities
Nick
Oh, and by the way. Since when are "white folks" no longer allowed to feel disenfranchised with their government. To me, that IS racist.
Make up your mind. Oh wait... you're full of shhh...
Going to inner city schools and reading to black children and claiming no child will be left behind... when you come from a state that left alot of kids not just behind... but left out... to improve the states ranking... is pretty hypocritcal. The state is TEXAS by the way.
Claiming the democratic party is racist is pure fantasy.
I believe I said Dean supporters. You can fumble around until you read what I said though.
Leaving children out... really you shouldn't bring this up to a school teacher.
Of course certain children are left out of test scores. Do you honestly think testing a child that has been in the U.S. for say 6 months and doesn't even speak English yet is going to be an accurate measurement of whether that school is teaching or not? Hell they will make designs with the dots on the test answer sheet.
I'll stick you in a country where you don't speak the language, give you a test in 5-6 months and when you flunk I'll declare the schools terrible.
Why don't you check teacher union websites for their positions on these issues. I assure you they reflect exactly this view. In fact they pretty much don't want standards or testing at all.
Why don't all states do this? Well maybe the recent immigrants are concentrated in just a few states. Here look at the very conservative Washington Post and what they have to say about this.
The survey also found that a majority of the foreign-born live in four states: California (28 percent), New York (11.8 percent), Texas (9.8 percent) and Florida (8.9 percent).
Yes, you read it here folks. Not wanting Hispanics to fail on a test they can't even read and understand yet is now a sign of hypocrisy regarding compassion.(sarcasm off)
No, my friend. YOU pulled out the race card in this thread and then had the gall to be offended when I called you on it. I didn't characterize ANYONE as being racist. I was just pointing out HYPOCRISY in politics. Personally, I can't stand it when anyone tries to play the race card.
Sheesh!
So don't stand it.
Point blank if something were produced for Bush and didn't have a single face of color in it, it would be considered proof of Republican racism. The reverse would never be true of course.
Point blank if something were produced for Bush and didn't have a single face of color in it, it would be considered proof of Republican racism. The reverse would never be true of course.
Some people's kids...
Nick
So two wrongs make a right... Isn't that the logic teachers use with their students? The race card is a bullshit tactic that shouldn't be used at all. Stooping to it is looooooooooow. Also, anytime anyone tried sticking something like that to Bush he simply wrote it off as "an overzealous fan base." And guess what...it didn't stick! Why? Because Bush ISN'T racist. Neither is Dean.
There's like what, seven case studies on that stupid sight. But, hey, I guess Dean wants us to switch to racism. What a crock!
So two wrongs make a right... Isn't that the logic teachers use with their students? The race card is a bullshit tactic that shouldn't be used at all. Stooping to it is looooooooooow. Also, anytime anyone tried sticking something like that to Bush he simply wrote it off as "an overzealous fan base." And guess what...it didn't stick! Why? Because Bush ISN'T racist. Neither is Dean.
There's like what, seven case studies on that stupid sight. But, hey, I guess Dean wants us to switch to racism. What a crock!
Look it isn't as if this campaign was produced in Vermont. It was, as was mentioned, produced by some multimedia professionals in San Francisco, California.
1 in 4 in California are foreign born and minorities are the majority. Caucasians make up about 43-44% of the population here.
Yet not a single face of color. I didn't say specifically black or anything like that. There is no one of a single ethnicity other than white.
When you can find a way to ignore 55% of the people walking around you in California, that says something. When you solicit stories and not one of them comes from a person of color that says something.
I think it says something quite clear about some Dean supportors as well.
Yeah Dean is diabolical like that... employ african americans in the campaign so people don't realise they're racist! genius. All it takes is a couple "token" blacks and you have everyone fooled! And I'm sure their advice will really help them subvert all the black voters to vote for a racist too. I know that's not what he "said"...
but hey I'm a Liberal Democrat and therefore a racist.
Look it isn't as if this campaign was produced in Vermont. It was, as was mentioned, produced by some multimedia professionals in San Francisco, California.
1 in 4 in California are foreign born and minorities are the majority. Caucasians make up about 43-44% of the population here.
Yet not a single face of color. I didn't say specifically black or anything like that. There is no one of a single ethnicity other than white.
When you can find a way to ignore 55% of the people walking around you in California, that says something. When you solicit stories and not one of them comes from a person of color that says something.
I think it says something quite clear about some Dean supportors as well.
Nick
Most racial groups are extactly that, "groups". White people hang out with each other no differently than other racial groups. I work in a predominantly Asian company with a few token white folks. During lunch-time, guess who hangs out together? The white folks do. Are any of us racist. Absolutely not. We just aren't included with the others. Intentional. Probably not. So, if a white group of Dean supporters gets their "friends" together to put up a parody site...shock, gasp...you have white faces on the site.
But, the more important question is why is that wrong? Are whites not allowed to rally, challenge or support? I truly believe the fact that this parody site only contains whites is purely an oversight.
Comments
Originally posted by chu_bakka
A country can be racist without the whole population being racist. And I do think the country has come a long way... however... racism is alive and well... no one doubts this. And all races. religous groups... sexes are guilty of seeking their interests at the expense of others... But a person or group has to have power in order for their ignorance to have any effect.
You seem to confuse past with the present alot.
I don't fully doubt racism is alive and well. Especially when it is practiced by so many in the Democratic party.
And as for your contention that you need to have power for your racism/ignorance to have any effect, that is bull. If anything it can simply poison the possibility or real progress. I don't mistake the past for the present. You simple want to pretend that nothing has changed when it has.
This is like the past of sexual harassment versus now. It was about a boss, with power, using it to get sex from a employee. Now it is about someone telling a dirty joke and creating a "hostile work environment" as a result.
Racism use to be about Jim Crow laws, seperate but equal, not being allowed to marry who you want or live where you want. Now it is about something thinking he was very articulate speaking (for a black man) and the most subtle different thought related to race.
Nick
Originally posted by jimmac
Trying to make something out of nothing eh?
Yep, pretty much.
(note suble use of innuendo AND sarcism jimmac and shawn would be so proud. So short and dismissive as well!)
Nick
I'll report back later with details.
And there's a difference between prejudice and racism.
As there is a difference between ignorance and hatred.
Is it unreasonable to ask a campaign that wants to run the White House to include a few non-white faces in its messages?
Let's be fair. If this was a Bush-supporter website, it'd be condemned from left to right.
Maybe Dean's people have to realize that he's not campaigning for President of Vermont.
Unless, as a Democrat, he's taking the black vote for granted...
Scroll down to the bottom. She works for the Campaign I stood behind her in the press area at the NYC rally.
Sure looks like Dean likes to employ african americans.
The switch campaign is a grassroots effort in San Francisco. A bastion of racist democrats I know but... maybe they'll come around.
You haven't come up with an example of the present day democratic party being racist. You keep saying that it is but it doesn't make it true.
And there's a difference between prejudice and racism.
As there is a difference between ignorance and hatred.
I believe I mentioned Jackson and Bustemante, both much more modern the 60's. Cruz belongs to MeChA. Their symbol is an eagle clutching dynamite. Many MeChA websites also link to a "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan" or document for creating a seperate country/land/segregation for Latinos.
Bustamante also had to apologize for using n-word during a speech.
Al Sharpton has called Jews "Diamond merchants" and "white interlopers."
Diane Watson, speaking about Ward Connerly, "He's married a white woman. He wants to be white. He wants a colorless society. He has no ethnic pride. He doesn't want to be black. I said that."
Donna Brazile, Gore campaign manager "I will not let the white boys win in this election."
I don't think any of these folks were "ignorant" of whom they were speaking about. They are racists.
Nick
Originally posted by chu_bakka
http://sf4dean.com/new/
Scroll down to the bottom. She works for the Campaign I stood behind her in the press area at the NYC rally.
Tokenism.
Nick
Make up your mind. Oh wait... you're full of shhh...
Going to inner city schools and reading to black children and claiming no child will be left behind... when you come from a state that left alot of kids not just behind... but left out... to improve the states ranking... is pretty hypocritcal. The state is TEXAS by the way.
Claiming the democratic party is racist is pure fantasy.
Originally posted by trumptman
Your stupidity does amaze. His state is over 96% white and he has already been criticized by DEMOCRATS for his lack of minority outreach.
Likewise I don't give a damn how much you want to characterize Republicans as racist. The Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights bill, broke up the union over slavery, and despite massive token actions have done little to nothing for minority communities
Nick
No, my friend. YOU pulled out the race card in this thread and then had the gall to be offended when I called you on it. I didn't characterize ANYONE as being racist. I was just pointing out HYPOCRISY in politics. Personally, I can't stand it when anyone tries to play the race card.
Sheesh!
Originally posted by trumptman
Your stupidity does amaze. His state is over 96% white and he has already been criticized by DEMOCRATS for his lack of minority outreach.
Likewise I don't give a damn how much you want to characterize Republicans as racist. The Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights bill, broke up the union over slavery, and despite massive token actions have done little to nothing for minority communities
Nick
Oh, and by the way. Since when are "white folks" no longer allowed to feel disenfranchised with their government. To me, that IS racist.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
So you are saying the Dean campaign is racist.
Make up your mind. Oh wait... you're full of shhh...
Going to inner city schools and reading to black children and claiming no child will be left behind... when you come from a state that left alot of kids not just behind... but left out... to improve the states ranking... is pretty hypocritcal. The state is TEXAS by the way.
Claiming the democratic party is racist is pure fantasy.
I believe I said Dean supporters. You can fumble around until you read what I said though.
Leaving children out... really you shouldn't bring this up to a school teacher.
Of course certain children are left out of test scores. Do you honestly think testing a child that has been in the U.S. for say 6 months and doesn't even speak English yet is going to be an accurate measurement of whether that school is teaching or not? Hell they will make designs with the dots on the test answer sheet.
I'll stick you in a country where you don't speak the language, give you a test in 5-6 months and when you flunk I'll declare the schools terrible.
Why don't you check teacher union websites for their positions on these issues. I assure you they reflect exactly this view. In fact they pretty much don't want standards or testing at all.
Why don't all states do this? Well maybe the recent immigrants are concentrated in just a few states. Here look at the very conservative Washington Post and what they have to say about this.
Washington Post
The survey also found that a majority of the foreign-born live in four states: California (28 percent), New York (11.8 percent), Texas (9.8 percent) and Florida (8.9 percent).
Yes, you read it here folks. Not wanting Hispanics to fail on a test they can't even read and understand yet is now a sign of hypocrisy regarding compassion.(sarcasm off)
Nick
Originally posted by Northgate
No, my friend. YOU pulled out the race card in this thread and then had the gall to be offended when I called you on it. I didn't characterize ANYONE as being racist. I was just pointing out HYPOCRISY in politics. Personally, I can't stand it when anyone tries to play the race card.
Sheesh!
So don't stand it.
Point blank if something were produced for Bush and didn't have a single face of color in it, it would be considered proof of Republican racism. The reverse would never be true of course.
Some people's kids...
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
So don't stand it.
Point blank if something were produced for Bush and didn't have a single face of color in it, it would be considered proof of Republican racism. The reverse would never be true of course.
Some people's kids...
Nick
So two wrongs make a right... Isn't that the logic teachers use with their students? The race card is a bullshit tactic that shouldn't be used at all. Stooping to it is looooooooooow. Also, anytime anyone tried sticking something like that to Bush he simply wrote it off as "an overzealous fan base." And guess what...it didn't stick! Why? Because Bush ISN'T racist. Neither is Dean.
There's like what, seven case studies on that stupid sight. But, hey, I guess Dean wants us to switch to racism. What a crock!
Originally posted by Northgate
So two wrongs make a right... Isn't that the logic teachers use with their students? The race card is a bullshit tactic that shouldn't be used at all. Stooping to it is looooooooooow. Also, anytime anyone tried sticking something like that to Bush he simply wrote it off as "an overzealous fan base." And guess what...it didn't stick! Why? Because Bush ISN'T racist. Neither is Dean.
There's like what, seven case studies on that stupid sight. But, hey, I guess Dean wants us to switch to racism. What a crock!
Look it isn't as if this campaign was produced in Vermont. It was, as was mentioned, produced by some multimedia professionals in San Francisco, California.
1 in 4 in California are foreign born and minorities are the majority. Caucasians make up about 43-44% of the population here.
Yet not a single face of color. I didn't say specifically black or anything like that. There is no one of a single ethnicity other than white.
When you can find a way to ignore 55% of the people walking around you in California, that says something. When you solicit stories and not one of them comes from a person of color that says something.
I think it says something quite clear about some Dean supportors as well.
Nick
but hey I'm a Liberal Democrat and therefore a racist.
Hannity said so... so it must be true.
Originally posted by trumptman
Look it isn't as if this campaign was produced in Vermont. It was, as was mentioned, produced by some multimedia professionals in San Francisco, California.
1 in 4 in California are foreign born and minorities are the majority. Caucasians make up about 43-44% of the population here.
Yet not a single face of color. I didn't say specifically black or anything like that. There is no one of a single ethnicity other than white.
When you can find a way to ignore 55% of the people walking around you in California, that says something. When you solicit stories and not one of them comes from a person of color that says something.
I think it says something quite clear about some Dean supportors as well.
Nick
Most racial groups are extactly that, "groups". White people hang out with each other no differently than other racial groups. I work in a predominantly Asian company with a few token white folks. During lunch-time, guess who hangs out together? The white folks do. Are any of us racist. Absolutely not. We just aren't included with the others. Intentional. Probably not. So, if a white group of Dean supporters gets their "friends" together to put up a parody site...shock, gasp...you have white faces on the site.
But, the more important question is why is that wrong? Are whites not allowed to rally, challenge or support? I truly believe the fact that this parody site only contains whites is purely an oversight.
Who's to say that a couple of those people aren't a minority?
Should there be a color quota? They're real people telling their stories. not a Tide detergent campaign.