No, it's not narrow minded elitism. It's sound economic principles. There exist a scarcity of resources and those resources should be channelled to those with the greatest potential, not the least.
Parents should be allowed to, on a school by school basis, vote to determine what food, drinks, and snacks are allowed in their child's school. [/QUOTE]
Making a concise point isn't really that difficult, now is it.
Would this really be practicle? Casting a vote every year for every school would be expensive as hell and a big waste of time and energy. The amount of effort that would go into this is insane considering the repurcussions. None. The parents do vote already, on a school by school and child by child basis, by sending their kids to school with what food, drinks and snacks they want their children to have at school.
PS So you're against democracy in terms of school cirriculum? You fascist nanny-state loving dweeb!
Making a concise point isn't really that difficult, now is it.
It was quite clear before. You were being intentionally dense. Now cut the crap. Enough of your stupid games.
Quote:
Would this really be practicle? Casting a vote every year for every school would be expensive as hell and a big waste of time and energy. The amount of effort that would go into this is insane considering the repurcussions. None. The parents do vote already, on a school by school and child by child basis, by sending their kids to school with what food, drinks and snacks they want their children to have at school.
Yes, it would be practical to have a vote every two years to decide if sodas, junk food, et cetera should be allowed. There would actually be very little effort put into it. Every kid evey year is given many fliers to take home to their parents. Many of those fliers require a parent's signature. Most schools have an automated dialer system. Add to the message that a flier is being sent home containing a couple checkboxes regarding the allowance of junk food and soda vending machines in schools.
This is very little effort. And, by banning something from being sold in schools, you are creating a black market. You will have soda dealers just like you have drug dealers. Prohibition is not the answer. Education is.
Quote:
PS So you're against democracy in terms of school cirriculum? You fascist nanny-state loving dweeb!
This is what we call diversion through changing the subject. I will not respond to your stupid attempts to derail the thread.
Nope. I'm not advocating discrimination. I'm advocating a change of our priorities.
If you really want to get fluffy on this issue, then currently there is discrimination against normal and gifted kids. They aren't bought 21" monitors, only to be used by one person, at the drop of a hat because it MIGHT help them. Not because it will, but because it MIGHT. That's 600 bucks for a kid who will never read, write, and can't even speak...and somehow he's in 5th grade. I'm sorry but that's a waste of money and all this is done to make the parent feel better.
What exactly would you do to special education programs?
What would you do for students with physical and/or mental disabilities?
What exactly would you do to special education programs?
What would you do for students with physical and/or mental disabilities?
Honest questions.
I'm not opposed to after school tutoring. I'm not opposed to special ed classes. I am opposed to IEPs and the willy nilly spending of money on expensive equipment that may or may not even help the kid.
Life isn't fair. Special ed kids shouldn't get a superior education at the expensive of everyone else. When there is a scarcity of resources and one group is hogging way more than its share, we have a problem.
I'm not opposed to after school tutoring. I'm not opposed to special ed classes. I am opposed to IEPs and the willy nilly spending of money on expensive equipment that may or may not even help the kid.
Life isn't fair. Special ed kids shouldn't get a superior education at the expensive of everyone else. When there is a scarcity of resources and one group is hogging way more than its share, we have a problem.
Well, I agree with you here generally. But can you really separate IEPs from special education classes? I mean children with mental disabilities have different requirements. I don't see how you can treat them without an individualized education program. Am I wrong here?
Well, I agree with you here generally. But can you really separate IEPs from special education classes? I mean children with mental disabilities have different requirements. I don't see how you can treat them without an individualized education program. Am I wrong here?
I think that we are underestimating the abilities of our special ed teachers here when we force them to create IEPs. I've been around them for 4 years. Most of them agree it is a huge waste of time and resources. Special ed teachers are trained to recognize differences in ability and should be able to adapt their teaching methods, especially when special ed classes often have 15 or fewer students in them.
It was quite clear before. You were being intentionally dense. Now cut the crap. Enough of your stupid games.
Yes, it would be practical to have a vote every two years to decide if sodas, junk food, et cetera should be allowed. There would actually be very little effort put into it. Every kid evey year is given many fliers to take home to their parents. Many of those fliers require a parent's signature. Most schools have an automated dialer system. Add to the message that a flier is being sent home containing a couple checkboxes regarding the allowance of junk food and soda vending machines in schools.
This is very little effort. And, by banning something from being sold in schools, you are creating a black market. You will have soda dealers just like you have drug dealers. Prohibition is not the answer. Education is.
This is what we call diversion through changing the subject. I will not respond to your stupid attempts to derail the thread.
You're full of crap, that's all. Derail the thread? You're the one that brought of bullcrap about 'not democratic.' Are you willing to claim that it wasn't an attempt to derail the thread? No, because everyone knows it was. Talking about special education issues in this thread? That's derailing the thread.
You want a bureaucratic mess. Education is the way to go. Soda isn't banned in schools so your analogy doesn't mix. Black market? Why, if someone can go to the store and buy it? Your analogy is seriously flawed, like your argument.
Be glad I'm not SDW. You'd be enjoying a nice ban if I was. Too bad I believe that even people with nothing to contribute, like you, should be allowed to converse.
I think that we are underestimating the abilities of our special ed teachers here when we force them to create IEPs. I've been around them for 4 years. Most of them agree it is a huge waste of time and resources. Special ed teachers are trained to recognize differences in ability and should be able to adapt their teaching methods, especially when special ed classes often have 15 or fewer students in them.
Each public school child who receives special education and related services must have an Individualized Education Program (IEP). Each IEP must be designed for one student and must be a truly individualized document. The IEP creates an opportunity for teachers, parents, school administrators, related services personnel, and students (when appropriate) to work together to improve educational results for children with disabilities. The IEP is the cornerstone of a quality education for each child with a disability..
To create an effective IEP, parents, teachers, other school staff--and often the student--must come together to look closely at the student?s unique needs. These individuals pool knowledge, experience and commitment to design an educational program that will help the student be involved in, and progress in, the general curriculum. The IEP guides the delivery of special education supports and services for the student with a disability. Without a doubt, writing--and implementing--an effective IEP requires teamwork.
This guide explains the IEP process, which we consider to be one of the most critical elements to ensure effective teaching, learning, and better results for all children with disabilities. The guide is designed to help teachers, parents and anyone involved in the education of a child with a disability-develop and carry out an IEP. The information in this guide is based on what is required by our nation?s special education law--the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or IDEA.
The IDEA requires certain information to be included in each child?s IEP. It is useful to know, however, that states and local school systems often include additional information in IEPs in order to document that they have met certain aspects of federal or state law. The flexibility that states and school systems have to design their own IEP forms is one reason why IEP forms may look different from school system to school system or state to state. Yet each IEP is critical in the education of a child with a disability.
You say the consensus among special education teachers is that IEPs are "a waste of time and resources." I would like to trust you on this one, but how could I considering what the US Department of Education has to say about it? They use words like cornerstone, critical, and ensure. They're not exactly being equivocal here. Yet, you say it's completely the opposite. Who am I to believe?
Or is there something I'm just not getting here?
I mean, you're not just talking about a 21" inch computer monitor. You're talking about eliminating what the US Department of Education calls "the cornerstone of special education."
Nice job of avoidance. You have no argument. Always Coca-Cola!
Give me a fvcking break. You have bobbed and weaved more than anyone else in this thread. You bring up irrelevant analogies and then yell "AH HAH! I GOT YOU!" when you just look like a dumbass dodging the issue. I'm quite sick of your stupid tactics that are no different than those of Scott and SDW. When you are willing to grow up and act like an adult, PM me. Until then, f off.
I've seen it first hand. Every special ed teacher I have spoken to thinks that IEPs are a waste of time. Don't patronize me with that "you can do better than that" garbage.
I've seen it first hand. Every special ed teacher I have spoken to thinks that IEPs are a waste of time. Don't patronize me with that "you can do better than that" garbage.
Smile, BR.
I'd really like to know beyond anecdotes. It would make a really interesting feature article to write about for my Advanced Writing class (if it turns out that special education teachers overwhelmingly oppose a central tenet of special education...)
Now this Education Week article looks pretty good. It explains both what it believes is wrong with IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) and how it should change. I'm not sure that I agree with it entirely, but it seems very reasonable.
You have bobbed and weaved more than anyone else in this thread. You bring up irrelevant analogies and then yell "AH HAH! I GOT YOU!" when you just look like a dumbass dodging the issue. I'm quite sick of your stupid tactics that are no different than those of Scott and SDW. When you are willing to grow up and act like an adult, PM me. Until then, f off.
I've been direct the entire thread. Sorry you don't like it.
Comments
Originally posted by New
Narrow minded eliteism... return on investment?
No, it's not narrow minded elitism. It's sound economic principles. There exist a scarcity of resources and those resources should be channelled to those with the greatest potential, not the least.
Parents should be allowed to, on a school by school basis, vote to determine what food, drinks, and snacks are allowed in their child's school. [/QUOTE]
Making a concise point isn't really that difficult, now is it.
Would this really be practicle? Casting a vote every year for every school would be expensive as hell and a big waste of time and energy. The amount of effort that would go into this is insane considering the repurcussions. None. The parents do vote already, on a school by school and child by child basis, by sending their kids to school with what food, drinks and snacks they want their children to have at school.
PS So you're against democracy in terms of school cirriculum? You fascist nanny-state loving dweeb!
Originally posted by bunge
Making a concise point isn't really that difficult, now is it.
It was quite clear before. You were being intentionally dense. Now cut the crap. Enough of your stupid games.
Would this really be practicle? Casting a vote every year for every school would be expensive as hell and a big waste of time and energy. The amount of effort that would go into this is insane considering the repurcussions. None. The parents do vote already, on a school by school and child by child basis, by sending their kids to school with what food, drinks and snacks they want their children to have at school.
Yes, it would be practical to have a vote every two years to decide if sodas, junk food, et cetera should be allowed. There would actually be very little effort put into it. Every kid evey year is given many fliers to take home to their parents. Many of those fliers require a parent's signature. Most schools have an automated dialer system. Add to the message that a flier is being sent home containing a couple checkboxes regarding the allowance of junk food and soda vending machines in schools.
This is very little effort. And, by banning something from being sold in schools, you are creating a black market. You will have soda dealers just like you have drug dealers. Prohibition is not the answer. Education is.
PS So you're against democracy in terms of school cirriculum? You fascist nanny-state loving dweeb!
This is what we call diversion through changing the subject. I will not respond to your stupid attempts to derail the thread.
Originally posted by BR
Nope. I'm not advocating discrimination. I'm advocating a change of our priorities.
If you really want to get fluffy on this issue, then currently there is discrimination against normal and gifted kids. They aren't bought 21" monitors, only to be used by one person, at the drop of a hat because it MIGHT help them. Not because it will, but because it MIGHT. That's 600 bucks for a kid who will never read, write, and can't even speak...and somehow he's in 5th grade. I'm sorry but that's a waste of money and all this is done to make the parent feel better.
What exactly would you do to special education programs?
What would you do for students with physical and/or mental disabilities?
Honest questions.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
What exactly would you do to special education programs?
What would you do for students with physical and/or mental disabilities?
Honest questions.
I'm not opposed to after school tutoring. I'm not opposed to special ed classes. I am opposed to IEPs and the willy nilly spending of money on expensive equipment that may or may not even help the kid.
Life isn't fair. Special ed kids shouldn't get a superior education at the expensive of everyone else. When there is a scarcity of resources and one group is hogging way more than its share, we have a problem.
Originally posted by BR
I'm not opposed to after school tutoring. I'm not opposed to special ed classes. I am opposed to IEPs and the willy nilly spending of money on expensive equipment that may or may not even help the kid.
Life isn't fair. Special ed kids shouldn't get a superior education at the expensive of everyone else. When there is a scarcity of resources and one group is hogging way more than its share, we have a problem.
Well, I agree with you here generally. But can you really separate IEPs from special education classes? I mean children with mental disabilities have different requirements. I don't see how you can treat them without an individualized education program. Am I wrong here?
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Well, I agree with you here generally. But can you really separate IEPs from special education classes? I mean children with mental disabilities have different requirements. I don't see how you can treat them without an individualized education program. Am I wrong here?
I think that we are underestimating the abilities of our special ed teachers here when we force them to create IEPs. I've been around them for 4 years. Most of them agree it is a huge waste of time and resources. Special ed teachers are trained to recognize differences in ability and should be able to adapt their teaching methods, especially when special ed classes often have 15 or fewer students in them.
Originally posted by BR
It was quite clear before. You were being intentionally dense. Now cut the crap. Enough of your stupid games.
Yes, it would be practical to have a vote every two years to decide if sodas, junk food, et cetera should be allowed. There would actually be very little effort put into it. Every kid evey year is given many fliers to take home to their parents. Many of those fliers require a parent's signature. Most schools have an automated dialer system. Add to the message that a flier is being sent home containing a couple checkboxes regarding the allowance of junk food and soda vending machines in schools.
This is very little effort. And, by banning something from being sold in schools, you are creating a black market. You will have soda dealers just like you have drug dealers. Prohibition is not the answer. Education is.
This is what we call diversion through changing the subject. I will not respond to your stupid attempts to derail the thread.
You're full of crap, that's all. Derail the thread? You're the one that brought of bullcrap about 'not democratic.' Are you willing to claim that it wasn't an attempt to derail the thread? No, because everyone knows it was. Talking about special education issues in this thread? That's derailing the thread.
You want a bureaucratic mess. Education is the way to go. Soda isn't banned in schools so your analogy doesn't mix. Black market? Why, if someone can go to the store and buy it? Your analogy is seriously flawed, like your argument.
Originally posted by bunge
You're full of crap, that's all.
Be glad I'm not SDW. You'd be enjoying a nice ban if I was. Too bad I believe that even people with nothing to contribute, like you, should be allowed to converse.
Originally posted by BR
Be glad I'm not SDW.
For more reasons than one.
Originally posted by BR
You'd be enjoying a nice ban if I was. Too bad I believe that even people with nothing to contribute, like you, should be allowed to converse.
Nice job of avoidance. You have no argument. Always Coca-Cola!
Originally posted by BR
I think that we are underestimating the abilities of our special ed teachers here when we force them to create IEPs. I've been around them for 4 years. Most of them agree it is a huge waste of time and resources. Special ed teachers are trained to recognize differences in ability and should be able to adapt their teaching methods, especially when special ed classes often have 15 or fewer students in them.
Take a look at the introduction to the U.S. Department of Education's Guide to the Individualized Education Program.
Introduction
Each public school child who receives special education and related services must have an Individualized Education Program (IEP). Each IEP must be designed for one student and must be a truly individualized document. The IEP creates an opportunity for teachers, parents, school administrators, related services personnel, and students (when appropriate) to work together to improve educational results for children with disabilities. The IEP is the cornerstone of a quality education for each child with a disability. .
To create an effective IEP, parents, teachers, other school staff--and often the student--must come together to look closely at the student?s unique needs. These individuals pool knowledge, experience and commitment to design an educational program that will help the student be involved in, and progress in, the general curriculum. The IEP guides the delivery of special education supports and services for the student with a disability. Without a doubt, writing--and implementing--an effective IEP requires teamwork.
This guide explains the IEP process, which we consider to be one of the most critical elements to ensure effective teaching, learning, and better results for all children with disabilities. The guide is designed to help teachers, parents and anyone involved in the education of a child with a disability-develop and carry out an IEP. The information in this guide is based on what is required by our nation?s special education law--the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or IDEA.
The IDEA requires certain information to be included in each child?s IEP. It is useful to know, however, that states and local school systems often include additional information in IEPs in order to document that they have met certain aspects of federal or state law. The flexibility that states and school systems have to design their own IEP forms is one reason why IEP forms may look different from school system to school system or state to state. Yet each IEP is critical in the education of a child with a disability.
You say the consensus among special education teachers is that IEPs are "a waste of time and resources." I would like to trust you on this one, but how could I considering what the US Department of Education has to say about it? They use words like cornerstone, critical, and ensure. They're not exactly being equivocal here. Yet, you say it's completely the opposite. Who am I to believe?
Or is there something I'm just not getting here?
I mean, you're not just talking about a 21" inch computer monitor. You're talking about eliminating what the US Department of Education calls "the cornerstone of special education."
Originally posted by bunge
Nice job of avoidance. You have no argument. Always Coca-Cola!
Give me a fvcking break. You have bobbed and weaved more than anyone else in this thread. You bring up irrelevant analogies and then yell "AH HAH! I GOT YOU!" when you just look like a dumbass dodging the issue. I'm quite sick of your stupid tactics that are no different than those of Scott and SDW. When you are willing to grow up and act like an adult, PM me. Until then, f off.
Originally posted by BR
Believe those who are in the trenches, not the generals who don't see what's going on.
I think you can do better than that.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
I think you can do better than that.
I've seen it first hand. Every special ed teacher I have spoken to thinks that IEPs are a waste of time. Don't patronize me with that "you can do better than that" garbage.
Originally posted by BR
I've seen it first hand. Every special ed teacher I have spoken to thinks that IEPs are a waste of time. Don't patronize me with that "you can do better than that" garbage.
Smile, BR.
I'd really like to know beyond anecdotes. It would make a really interesting feature article to write about for my Advanced Writing class (if it turns out that special education teachers overwhelmingly oppose a central tenet of special education...)
Originally posted by BR
You have bobbed and weaved more than anyone else in this thread. You bring up irrelevant analogies and then yell "AH HAH! I GOT YOU!" when you just look like a dumbass dodging the issue. I'm quite sick of your stupid tactics that are no different than those of Scott and SDW. When you are willing to grow up and act like an adult, PM me. Until then, f off.
I've been direct the entire thread. Sorry you don't like it.