WhenEVER the iBook gets updated next, I think it'll get the G4 ... I base this on the fact that the origional iMacG3 has dissappeared from Apples site ... i think that they are through with the G3 processor ...G4's and the new 970 are the future.
This is merely uneducated observation/opinion, but it seems reasonable to me.
WhenEVER the iBook gets updated next, I think it'll get the G4 ... I base this on the fact that the origional iMacG3 has dissappeared from Apples site ... i think that they are through with the G3 processor ...G4's and the new 970 are the future.
This is merely uneducated observation/opinion, but it seems reasonable to me.
The iMac G3 was last updated, err. Don't remember. It had a 750CXe.
The iBook was last updated 5 months ago and has a 750fx that has more cache, is generally faster, and clocked higher, too (and still has way to go).
- PPC 970 in PowerBooks Summer 2004 (possibly later)
- After all that, then the iBook might be bummped to a G4
You can't just update your whole line to PPC 970 as you please. Things have to be completely redesigned. Updates take time. Anyone who has been waiting for the G5 should understand that.
the next update of the ibook will have a G3 under the hood.
or, but i doubt it, a G4 that tops out on 800Mhz with the same busspeed and no DDRram a new case design with a 13" screen (sorry matsu) so in the end of the year they can switch the ibook very easy to the G4 7457.
your timeline is very conservative, especially since everybody expects the ppc970 powermac to arrive sooner than later (sept 2003) and apple has two mobo's ready for production according to this link. a pro and a consumer version. because the consumer version has to be smaller and produce less heat because of the imac dome it will also be suitable for a powerbook. okay, it has to have a totally different layout but the parts can be the same. just like the mobo of the original imac and the wallstreet back in 1998. apple won't have to wait for a cooler version of the ppc 970 like they had to wait for the G4 7410 processor for the pbG4 rev A. so i expect that one to come out at MWSF2003 or earlyer.
the replacement of the powermac G3 BW by the first G4 towers was after just 9 months, so i don't think it will be a problem for the new powerbooks to get a ppc970 processor by then.
Isn't it possible that in this "Year of the Laptop" that we might see something completely new and different in the iBook?
With the new 12" PowerBook you have something very close to the iBooks form factor, just a bit more expensive. So maybe we can expect a completely new look for the iBook. The iBook redifined as a true "sub-notebook" or maybe a tablet.
Does it not occur to you that Apple must first update all the PowerBooks to 970, or at least have one 970 model and the rest much faster G4s, before it can move the iBook to G4s?
They've just realeased brand new PowerBooks, and the 15" is going to be revised as a G4 before it goes 970, that seems to give them at least a gap of around 9 months before a new PowerBook architecture, probably more.
And when they've done the PowerBook... they'll do the iBook.
So how is it conservative to say this revision to G4 is a year away?
I still see the iBook going to a one form factor line up. Mebbe only two models, possibly not that different from a 12" powerbook except that the iBook would have a larger display and no superdrive option. 13.3" ? Mebbe, instead of all 14". Whatever it is, I don't think size/weight are an issue particularly for Apple who let's not forget manages to make a 17" model that's lighter than most 15" notebooks on the market. Still research in the budget notebook market suggests that buyers look for primarily screen size and features and NOT battery life and size.
So the 12" iBook DOES indeed have a niche as an affordable small/light machine. The problem is in the balance between the niche and consumer demands. I'm sure that if Apple made a 14 with nearly the same size/weight as the 12, and sold it at the same prices that the 12 currently sells, they'd have a bigger hit than the original icebook. Can you honestly say that the 5lbs of the current iBook is too heavy? No, of course not, that's ridiculous, so if they make a 14 that weighs and costs the same, while only having a hair bigger foot-print, and probably coming in a mite thinner too, all those 12" buyers suddenly wouldn't want it?
Think for a second, you know I'm right.
As for processors. 970 laptops? I think just the 17" to start (whenever that is) then the 15, and the 12 might not see a 970 for quite a while.
People forget that the G4 is still a very competitive laptop choice. A G4 iBook would rock, will rock as soon as te 15 & 17" PB's get a 970 and the 12" PB gets a fast .13u G4.
Does it not occur to you that Apple must first update all the PowerBooks to 970, or at least have one 970 model and the rest much faster G4s, before it can move the iBook to G4s?
They've just realeased brand new PowerBooks, and the 15" is going to be revised as a G4 before it goes 970, that seems to give them at least a gap of around 9 months before a new PowerBook architecture, probably more.
And when they've done the PowerBook... they'll do the iBook.
So how is it conservative to say this revision to G4 is a year away?
no, that does not occur to me. i don't see a problem here, if apple keeps the bus speed at 100mhz and don't increase the G4 speed to a level that's faster than the slowest powerbook at that time, there is no problem at all.
it will have the same effect when the ibook dual usb was introduced. it had a faster processor than the powerbook G4/400Mhz and was much cheaper but lacks that much options that people still bought powerbooks. btw they did the same with the imac flatpanel so why not with the ibook.
i still don't expect a G4 in the next revision of the ibook though. but i do expect in the fall/winter 2003 timeframe.
I know your right, but think about this: apple has to be the first computermaker that puts a superdrive in a consumer/cheap laptop and they will... probally next year... or maybe asap. it's 2003 year of the portable, no?
Apple could move the iBook to a 5 lbs enclosure with 14" screens across the board and hopefully also a higher-resolution option. I mean, look at the Dell Inspiron 600m. It's 5 lbs and has a 14" screen, and you can get either 1024x768 or 1440x1050 resolution. Personally I think 1280x960 would be a better compromise but Apple tends to be pretty good about selecting screen resolutions so I'm sure they'll do something good.
I think it might happen. Heck, I hope it does. Even though I'm the happy owner of a 12" iBook, having an extra 2" would be easier on the eyes and it would still fit in my backpack.
no, that does not occur to me. i don't see a problem here, if apple keeps the bus speed at 100mhz and don't increase the G4 speed to a level that's faster than the slowest powerbook at that time, there is no problem at all.
it will have the same effect when the ibook dual usb was introduced. it had a faster processor than the powerbook G4/400Mhz and was much cheaper but lacks that much options that people still bought powerbooks. btw they did the same with the imac flatpanel so why not with the ibook.
i still don't expect a G4 in the next revision of the ibook though. but i do expect in the fall/winter 2003 timeframe.
No iBook had a faster processor than a PowerBook, ever. It may have had a faster clock speed, but it was G3 vs G4 - no competition.
There's also no comparison between a iMac G4 and a G4 PowerMac vs a possible G4 iBook and G4 PowerBook. The PowerMac has substantial hardware and expansion advantages over the iMac. Those advantages just don't exist in the iBook vs PowerBook comparison. A 12" PowerBook is virtaully the same as a 12" iBook feature-wise, the only significant differences are the G4 chip and the monitor spanning.
How can Apple offer a 12" iBook G4 and a 12" PowerBook G4 side by side? The only way would be for the PowerBook to be considerably faster, like 50% faster, otherwise it's just not going to sell.
Why not put your money where your mouth is, I'll put EUR:10.00 on no G4 iBook before January 2004.
Actually, in 2000, before the PowerBook G4 was released, the PowerBook G3 was available in 400 and 500 MHz clock speeds while the iBook had 366 MHz and 466 MHz. Both used G3s, although the iBook used the newer 750cx with 256 kb of on-chip, full speed L2 cache instead of 1 MB of off chip half speed L2 cache. In fact, the high end iBook was very much like the low end PowerBook in that it had the same graphics chip (Rage 128 Mobility), the same 10 GB hard drive, on board FireWire, and a DVD-ROM drive. It did ship with less RAM and it had a smaller, lower resolution screen, in addition to being larger and heavier, but it cost almost $1000 less. Apple updated the PowerBook to the Titanium G4 just a few months later, and the PowerBook has been far, far ahead of the iBook since then.
Put a G4 into a 14" iBook with a resolution of 1280x 980 or so and it'll sell like crazy.
People know it's only a matter of time before the iBook gets a G4. Hence, any minor speed bump or graphic card improvement without going G4 will not sell.
The PB 12" has effectively killed the 12" iBook. Any new iBook should be larger, but perhaps a touch thinner. A 13.3" or 14" model with a G4/ 800mhz without FW2, could conceivably be priced about $200 less than 867 12" PB.
Put a G4 into a 14" iBook with a resolution of 1280x 980 or so and it'll sell like crazy.
People know it's only a matter of time before the iBook gets a G4. Hence, any minor speed bump or graphic card improvement without going G4 will not sell.
Oh, it'll sell. It's a great notebook at a great price, G4 or no. There are a lot of people who aren't nearly as anxious about what might be coming as you are.
Heck, I know one Windows/Linux power user who's sorely tempted to switch. She builds (or has a local shop build) pretty much all-out PCs, performance-wise. And the Mac that's smitten her is the iBook. It's proof that raw performance is not the most important aspect of a computer anymore.
The iBook can jump to the G4 when the PowerBook jumps to the 970 or the 7457 is released, whichever is later.
Quote:
The PB 12" has effectively killed the 12" iBook. Any new iBook should be larger, but perhaps a touch thinner. A 13.3" or 14" model with a G4/ 800mhz without FW2, could conceivably be priced about $200 less than 867 12" PB.
The 12" iBook is uncontested at its price point, which is half the PB's. The 12" PB won't come close to killing it, especially not in the academic market where the iBook is a strong seller. And the iBook won't be getting much thinner, because ruggedness is an especial selling point. If anything, the current iBook isn't rugged enough. A still-slimmer profile is something Apple can charge for in a PB (although those are generally pretty tough, too).
With this being the "Year of the Laptop" I actually wonder if Apple has palns on releasing a PB 970 this year. I would most likely say that the PM wil get it in the late summer or early fall and then the PBs getting it in the middle to late fall. Like Oct or Nov. Apple may have called it the year of the laptop because they are just using that as a back up if the 970s ran into trouble and were not going to be available for the 2nd half, but somehow I think that Apple probably knew that IBM was going to be ready and the 17 inch screen is just an intro. Introduce the 17 inch to get peoples mouths watering and then slap a 970 in there get them going crazy. Just throwing a 970 in there would get anyone going crazy. If Apple does release a 970 in the Fall for the PBs, watch out Dell, cause you got one angry and powerful competitor coming for ya. But I'm sure that Dell would not care anyway.
why do i still post on these boards when people formulate my ideas better than i do, but always after my posts.
clive, i would have take your bet if you formulated it different. now it's still possible that i'm right and you to. i was'nt talking about a timetable i was talking about revisions. and since it's very usual to have two ibook updates a year i expected the ibook G4 to arrive in the end of 2003. (great car btw)
but now al gore joined apple's board of directors and the war has started everything can happen.
We can only pray that Apple decides to put the 970 into all of their "Power" computers. (PowerMac and PowerBook). And update everything else to G4s.
But realistically, the 970 probably won't go into any Laptops untill spring 2004 or later. Esspecially not the iBook. (sorry people) But I can only pray to God that I am wrong on this one.
clive, i would have take your bet if you formulated it different. now it's still possible that i'm right and you to. i was'nt talking about a timetable i was talking about revisions. and since it's very usual to have two ibook updates a year i expected the ibook G4 to arrive in the end of 2003.
I can't see how we can both be right, you say a G4 iBook by the end of the year, and I say no G4 iBook before January 2004. You are talking about 2003, right?
If you take the bet I'll send my EUR:10.00 to a friend in the NL, and you can send your's there too - deal?
We can only pray that Apple decides to put the 970 into all of their "Power" computers. (PowerMac and PowerBook). And update everything else to G4s.
But realistically, the 970 probably won't go into any Laptops untill spring 2004 or later. Esspecially not the iBook. (sorry people) But I can only pray to God that I am wrong on this one.
All that I can say is that I want to see a PB 970 this year. It would be really nice to see Apple take the lead in performance for desktops and notebooks this year. Instead of the "Year of the Laptop," it should be "Year of the Mac." No question. And with the rumor of Apple making a 2004 SuperBowl ad, how sweet would it be to see a 970 ad showing the PM and the PB 970 for 20th anniversary of the 1984 ad.
Comments
This is merely uneducated observation/opinion, but it seems reasonable to me.
Originally posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
WhenEVER the iBook gets updated next, I think it'll get the G4 ... I base this on the fact that the origional iMacG3 has dissappeared from Apples site ... i think that they are through with the G3 processor ...G4's and the new 970 are the future.
This is merely uneducated observation/opinion, but it seems reasonable to me.
The iMac G3 was last updated, err. Don't remember. It had a 750CXe.
The iBook was last updated 5 months ago and has a 750fx that has more cache, is generally faster, and clocked higher, too (and still has way to go).
Originally posted by JoshuaTree05
Here's a practical Time line...
- 15" PowerBook update this Spring
- PPC 970 goes into PowerMacs this Fall
- PPC 970 in PowerBooks Summer 2004 (possibly later)
- After all that, then the iBook might be bummped to a G4
You can't just update your whole line to PPC 970 as you please. Things have to be completely redesigned. Updates take time. Anyone who has been waiting for the G5 should understand that.
the next update of the ibook will have a G3 under the hood.
or, but i doubt it, a G4 that tops out on 800Mhz with the same busspeed and no DDRram a new case design with a 13" screen (sorry matsu) so in the end of the year they can switch the ibook very easy to the G4 7457.
your timeline is very conservative, especially since everybody expects the ppc970 powermac to arrive sooner than later (sept 2003) and apple has two mobo's ready for production according to this link. a pro and a consumer version. because the consumer version has to be smaller and produce less heat because of the imac dome it will also be suitable for a powerbook. okay, it has to have a totally different layout but the parts can be the same. just like the mobo of the original imac and the wallstreet back in 1998. apple won't have to wait for a cooler version of the ppc 970 like they had to wait for the G4 7410 processor for the pbG4 rev A. so i expect that one to come out at MWSF2003 or earlyer.
the replacement of the powermac G3 BW by the first G4 towers was after just 9 months, so i don't think it will be a problem for the new powerbooks to get a ppc970 processor by then.
With the new 12" PowerBook you have something very close to the iBooks form factor, just a bit more expensive. So maybe we can expect a completely new look for the iBook. The iBook redifined as a true "sub-notebook" or maybe a tablet.
Originally posted by JoshuaTree05
As I said, they might put the PPC 970 into the PowerBook in Summer 2004, maybe later.
I'd agree with that as being much more realistic.
Originally posted by gar
your timeline is very conservative
Does it not occur to you that Apple must first update all the PowerBooks to 970, or at least have one 970 model and the rest much faster G4s, before it can move the iBook to G4s?
They've just realeased brand new PowerBooks, and the 15" is going to be revised as a G4 before it goes 970, that seems to give them at least a gap of around 9 months before a new PowerBook architecture, probably more.
And when they've done the PowerBook... they'll do the iBook.
So how is it conservative to say this revision to G4 is a year away?
So the 12" iBook DOES indeed have a niche as an affordable small/light machine. The problem is in the balance between the niche and consumer demands. I'm sure that if Apple made a 14 with nearly the same size/weight as the 12, and sold it at the same prices that the 12 currently sells, they'd have a bigger hit than the original icebook. Can you honestly say that the 5lbs of the current iBook is too heavy? No, of course not, that's ridiculous, so if they make a 14 that weighs and costs the same, while only having a hair bigger foot-print, and probably coming in a mite thinner too, all those 12" buyers suddenly wouldn't want it?
Think for a second, you know I'm right.
As for processors. 970 laptops? I think just the 17" to start (whenever that is) then the 15, and the 12 might not see a 970 for quite a while.
People forget that the G4 is still a very competitive laptop choice. A G4 iBook would rock, will rock as soon as te 15 & 17" PB's get a 970 and the 12" PB gets a fast .13u G4.
Then the line-up might look something like this:
17"PB, .13u PPC970, 3299USD
15"PB, .13u PPC970, superdrive, 2699
15"PB combodrive, 2299
12"PB, .13u G4 w/ 512kb L2 (maybe .5-1MB L3) w/ superdrive 1899, w/ combo, 1599
14" iBook, .13 G4, all combo models, one loaded (maxx ram etc etc) 1499, another with less RAM, smaller HDD, 1299
One leftover G3 model, previous outgoing G3, 999.
Originally posted by Clive
Does it not occur to you that Apple must first update all the PowerBooks to 970, or at least have one 970 model and the rest much faster G4s, before it can move the iBook to G4s?
They've just realeased brand new PowerBooks, and the 15" is going to be revised as a G4 before it goes 970, that seems to give them at least a gap of around 9 months before a new PowerBook architecture, probably more.
And when they've done the PowerBook... they'll do the iBook.
So how is it conservative to say this revision to G4 is a year away?
no, that does not occur to me. i don't see a problem here, if apple keeps the bus speed at 100mhz and don't increase the G4 speed to a level that's faster than the slowest powerbook at that time, there is no problem at all.
it will have the same effect when the ibook dual usb was introduced. it had a faster processor than the powerbook G4/400Mhz and was much cheaper but lacks that much options that people still bought powerbooks. btw they did the same with the imac flatpanel so why not with the ibook.
i still don't expect a G4 in the next revision of the ibook though. but i do expect in the fall/winter 2003 timeframe.
Originally posted by Matsu
Think for a second, you know I'm right.
I know your right, but think about this: apple has to be the first computermaker that puts a superdrive in a consumer/cheap laptop and they will... probally next year... or maybe asap. it's 2003 year of the portable, no?
I think it might happen. Heck, I hope it does. Even though I'm the happy owner of a 12" iBook, having an extra 2" would be easier on the eyes and it would still fit in my backpack.
Originally posted by gar
no, that does not occur to me. i don't see a problem here, if apple keeps the bus speed at 100mhz and don't increase the G4 speed to a level that's faster than the slowest powerbook at that time, there is no problem at all.
it will have the same effect when the ibook dual usb was introduced. it had a faster processor than the powerbook G4/400Mhz and was much cheaper but lacks that much options that people still bought powerbooks. btw they did the same with the imac flatpanel so why not with the ibook.
i still don't expect a G4 in the next revision of the ibook though. but i do expect in the fall/winter 2003 timeframe.
No iBook had a faster processor than a PowerBook, ever. It may have had a faster clock speed, but it was G3 vs G4 - no competition.
There's also no comparison between a iMac G4 and a G4 PowerMac vs a possible G4 iBook and G4 PowerBook. The PowerMac has substantial hardware and expansion advantages over the iMac. Those advantages just don't exist in the iBook vs PowerBook comparison. A 12" PowerBook is virtaully the same as a 12" iBook feature-wise, the only significant differences are the G4 chip and the monitor spanning.
How can Apple offer a 12" iBook G4 and a 12" PowerBook G4 side by side? The only way would be for the PowerBook to be considerably faster, like 50% faster, otherwise it's just not going to sell.
Why not put your money where your mouth is, I'll put EUR:10.00 on no G4 iBook before January 2004.
People know it's only a matter of time before the iBook gets a G4. Hence, any minor speed bump or graphic card improvement without going G4 will not sell.
The PB 12" has effectively killed the 12" iBook. Any new iBook should be larger, but perhaps a touch thinner. A 13.3" or 14" model with a G4/ 800mhz without FW2, could conceivably be priced about $200 less than 867 12" PB.
Originally posted by satchmo
Put a G4 into a 14" iBook with a resolution of 1280x 980 or so and it'll sell like crazy.
People know it's only a matter of time before the iBook gets a G4. Hence, any minor speed bump or graphic card improvement without going G4 will not sell.
Oh, it'll sell. It's a great notebook at a great price, G4 or no. There are a lot of people who aren't nearly as anxious about what might be coming as you are.
Heck, I know one Windows/Linux power user who's sorely tempted to switch. She builds (or has a local shop build) pretty much all-out PCs, performance-wise. And the Mac that's smitten her is the iBook. It's proof that raw performance is not the most important aspect of a computer anymore.
The iBook can jump to the G4 when the PowerBook jumps to the 970 or the 7457 is released, whichever is later.
The PB 12" has effectively killed the 12" iBook. Any new iBook should be larger, but perhaps a touch thinner. A 13.3" or 14" model with a G4/ 800mhz without FW2, could conceivably be priced about $200 less than 867 12" PB.
The 12" iBook is uncontested at its price point, which is half the PB's. The 12" PB won't come close to killing it, especially not in the academic market where the iBook is a strong seller. And the iBook won't be getting much thinner, because ruggedness is an especial selling point. If anything, the current iBook isn't rugged enough. A still-slimmer profile is something Apple can charge for in a PB (although those are generally pretty tough, too).
clive, i would have take your bet if you formulated it different. now it's still possible that i'm right and you to. i was'nt talking about a timetable i was talking about revisions. and since it's very usual to have two ibook updates a year i expected the ibook G4 to arrive in the end of 2003. (great car btw)
but now al gore joined apple's board of directors and the war has started everything can happen.
But realistically, the 970 probably won't go into any Laptops untill spring 2004 or later. Esspecially not the iBook. (sorry people) But I can only pray to God that I am wrong on this one.
Originally posted by gar
clive, i would have take your bet if you formulated it different. now it's still possible that i'm right and you to. i was'nt talking about a timetable i was talking about revisions. and since it's very usual to have two ibook updates a year i expected the ibook G4 to arrive in the end of 2003.
I can't see how we can both be right, you say a G4 iBook by the end of the year, and I say no G4 iBook before January 2004. You are talking about 2003, right?
If you take the bet I'll send my EUR:10.00 to a friend in the NL, and you can send your's there too - deal?
(great car btw)
I kind of like it too
Originally posted by JoshuaTree05
We can only pray that Apple decides to put the 970 into all of their "Power" computers. (PowerMac and PowerBook). And update everything else to G4s.
But realistically, the 970 probably won't go into any Laptops untill spring 2004 or later. Esspecially not the iBook. (sorry people) But I can only pray to God that I am wrong on this one.
All that I can say is that I want to see a PB 970 this year. It would be really nice to see Apple take the lead in performance for desktops and notebooks this year. Instead of the "Year of the Laptop," it should be "Year of the Mac." No question. And with the rumor of Apple making a 2004 SuperBowl ad, how sweet would it be to see a 970 ad showing the PM and the PB 970 for 20th anniversary of the 1984 ad.