all i gotta say is that dlel tnhig is a pos without a solid-state slcorl wheel. things like that make apple cool.
Yes, it is ugly and certainly has no cool factor at all.
But if it's priced at or near $200, they will sell a boatload.
Don't under estimate the millions people who have absolutely no regard for good design, functionality and aesthetics. They will simply look at the price tag, the Dell logo and drop down their credit cards.
The very fact that they've called it a "Digital Jukebox" sends a pretty clear message that it's amature night for Dell. It really just depends on how well this little turd "closely intergrates" with the computer. No other P.C. company has pulled it off - I don't see how Dell can either.
I think the only reason Dell is doing this is because Gateway started selling TV's which practically saved the companies ass. Then Gateway opened the floodgates and got into MP3 players and the sort.
This will be interesting to watch though .. no doubt about that.
Some of you have got to be kidding. That Dell might not be as pretty as an iPod, but it's a long long long way from being ugly. The buttons are simple, the screen looks about the same, and from what we can gather, it looks to have a similar menu system to an iPod. Just because it isn't Apple doesn't mean it won't work well. Why don't you wait to see how it performs? Your aesthetic criticisms only betray pure bias, since it really isn't that different from an iPod in look and layout. Navigation (scrolling) at the top and control at the bottom reverses the iPod layout, but doesn't really seem better or worse. The iPod's jog dial is the better imput system, but a thumb scroller should also work well.
Some of you have got to be kidding. That Dell might not be as pretty as an iPod, but it's a long long long way from being ugly. The buttons are simple, the screen looks about the same, and from what we can gather, it looks to have a similar menu system to an iPod. Just because it isn't Apple doesn't mean it won't work well. Why don't you wait to see how it performs? Your aesthetic criticisms only betray pure bias, since it really isn't that different from an iPod in look and layout. Navigation (scrolling) at the top and control at the bottom reverses the iPod layout, but doesn't really seem better or worse. The iPod's jog dial is the better imput system, but a thumb scroller should also work well.
You've got to be kidding me. Anything first year industrial design student could do better. I'm not knocking it's functionality which has yet to be determined. But from a pure design aesthetic (form, texture, lines, contrast, colour, etc.) this thing is a dog's breakfast.
It seems to want to emulate an iMac with white and chrome finishes but fails to understand you can't just slap it on. Is there any reason there's a curved arc across the tops and bottom? There is absolutely no flow to this design, no harmony or order.
Dell, like Walmart, lowers the price for everyone.
Child labor. klinux I am not ranting I am attending an honors class on globalism. Study up. And that Dell knock off looks pathetic compared to an iPod. They will sell but just mediocre. Like everything Dell does. I don't see why PC people like Dell so much. It's just a mediocre company, all the way. Eugene everyone gets lucky with products. My iPod probably shouldn't still be working, same with my laptop and my hard drive I took apart because the fan was loud. However certain companies just make better products. The Humvee, the Jeep, the Mac, the Maglite, are the same calibre. They are products and companies above the rest. Dell does not belong in that category.
Satchmo, those are forced criticisms if I ever read any. It's no worse looking than the vast majority of consumer electronics. So, it's not as pretty as an iPod, you're going to drop it in your pocket anyway, so who cares?
Aquatic, yes, some companies just do make better stuff, but some just have an ill deserved reputation, based on branding/image, like the Jeep example -- notoriously bad QC, but people rave about them and overlook their numerous faults because they want the image.
Satchmo, those are forced criticisms if I ever read any. It's no worse looking than the vast majority of consumer electronics. So, it's not as pretty as an iPod, you're going to drop it in your pocket anyway, so who cares?
Forced?
Perhaps you can enlighten me some design attributes of the Dell...unforced, of course.
I'll give you that it's no worse than the majority of consumer electronics, but that still makes it ugly. And no, I'm pretentious and like to have my iPod seen in public...so I care.
Oh my gosh ... it's actually worse than I thought:
"'It appears that Dell is re-branding one of the second-tier music services that will be announced soon, just like they are re-branding Creative's MP3 player."
It looks like Dell's long standing tried and true tradition of having absolutely NO control over their products - beyond their asthetics - remains intact.
I wonder if Creative let Dell program the Bios just to give them something to do.
I guarantee you that if Apple made that exact same case the very same people calling it ugly on these boards would now say it's a handsome piece. In fact, if you just take off that annoying script (which plagues far too many bits of consumer electronica -- do we need to read DELL and digital jukebox, don't we know what it is already?) it's just an annonyomus little player. Had this thing come with an Apple logo and font on the back, this thread wouldn't even exist.
Is it gorgeous? NO, the iPod looks better, but an Mp3 player can only look so go before it's just wasted effort. Dell is close enough here.
Is it original? NO. But who cares, so long as it works well and comes at a good price. When a winning formula is found there's really no need to change it, in fact, it behooves the responsible designer to copy it as much as possible. (Something Jobs himself would agree with.)
So rather than have an, "OOOH Dell, ick, it's fugly!" thread, why not think about some real issues regarding it's use and adoption.
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
These are the things that willl either make it a true iPod competitor or just a shallow copy. The thing might still turn out to be a turd, regardless of how it looks (and it most certainly doesn't look bad) The only indication we have so far is that the software appears to be similar to the iPod's menu system, but that's all you can really tell about how good or bad it might be ATM.
As far as I can tell this thing is about 225 grams. Thats HEAVY compared to the ipod. (the 40 GB is 176 grams). And this thing is quite a lot bigger as well...
I guarantee you that if Apple made that exact same case the very same people calling it ugly on these boards would now say it's a handsome piece. In fact, if you just take off that annoying script (which plagues far too many bits of consumer electronica -- do we need to read DELL and digital jukebox, don't we know what it is already?) it's just an annonyomus little player. Had this thing come with an Apple logo and font on the back, this thread wouldn't even exist.
Is it gorgeous? NO, the iPod looks better, but an Mp3 player can only look so go before it's just wasted effort. Dell is close enough here.
Is it original? NO. But who cares, so long as it works well and comes at a good price. When a winning formula is found there's really no need to change it, in fact, it behooves the responsible designer to copy it as much as possible. (Something Jobs himself would agree with.)
So rather than have an, "OOOH Dell, ick, it's fugly!" thread, why not think about some real issues regarding it's use and adoption.
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
These are the things that willl either make it a true iPod competitor or just a shallow copy. The thing might still turn out to be a turd, regardless of how it looks (and it most certainly doesn't look bad) The only indication we have so far is that the software appears to be similar to the iPod's menu system, but that's all you can really tell about how good or bad it might be ATM.
The issue was never about the functionality/performance of the Dell...but about it's design aesthetic. Call a spade a spade...it's fugly.
And I think loyalists are not blinded by the Apple logo (well not all of them). When the "mirrored" G4 came out, it was slammed. Compared to the QuickSilver, it looked downright gaudy. When the eMac appeared, it was also roasted as being a heavy slab of white cheese. And we know how the iBook has evolved from a multi-coloured toilet seat, to a white marvel, to a fugly plastic looking toy.
The point is, Apple is one of the few companies that actually care about it's product design. That has become a trademark of anything they produce. They strive to be original in their industrial design. There's actual thought ,discussion and customization where others just slap together things with available parts.
I guarantee you that if Apple made that exact same case the very same people calling it ugly on these boards would now say it's a handsome piece.
This "argument" doesn't get any better with age.
If you peek over at the "black iBook" thread, people here have no trouble calling an Apple machine cheap or ugly looking if they think it is. Apple has the reputation they have for good design because they actually do churn out one amazing design after another. It's not AI forumgoers who are throwing awards at Jon Ive faster than he can shelve them.
The above is not an amazing design - or even a good design - by any standard. For one thing, it looks flimsy. For another, it looks "hi-tech" circa 1972.
Quote:
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
First, like it or not, looks do matter. Not as much as Apple sometimes thinks they should (no, Steve, the Cube isn't pretty enough to justify a ~$500 premium), but they do. Also, whether the case feels (or worse, is) flimsy will have an impact.
As to the other questions, those definitely do matter, but you can't expect people to ask them when the answers haven't been released yet. Since it's just someone else's box with "Dell" stamped on it, it shouldn't be too hard to find the specs - not that I'm interested in looking myself. Note that Dell's music store will use WMP9, because MusicMatch is using that format. Draw your own conclusions about the level of DRM.
You'll note, Amorph, that I said people would say it looks "handsome", not gorgeous. Ie, they'd be satisfied, though not thrilled. The iPod looks better, and if the WM9 stuff is true, then this Dell creation should be immediately consigned to the also-ran bin. However, I just don't see how this player's appearance can be called "fugly." It isn't. Ive wouldn't win an award for it, but mac heads would accept it. Contrary to what some in this thread would imply, no one will run screaming from the mere look of it. I would, however, run screaming for dear life from the prospect of WM9+M$ DRM, and so should you.
You'll note, Amorph, that I said people would say it looks "handsome", not gorgeous. Ie, they'd be satisfied, though not thrilled. The iPod looks better, and if the WM9 stuff is true, then this Dell creation should be immediately consigned to the also-ran bin. However, I just don't see how this player's appearance can be called "fugly." It isn't. Ive wouldn't win an award for it, but mac heads would accept it. Contrary to what some in this thread would imply, no one will run screaming from the mere look of it. I would, however, run screaming for dear life from the prospect of WM9+M$ DRM, and so should you.
According to the article, sources say that Dell's version will be a rebranding of Musicmatch's service. According to Musicmatch's User Guide:
"Files downloaded from the Musicmatch Downloads service are in secure WMA format. WMA (a Windows file format) offers superb sound quality and a small file size. WMA also protects your music with advanced security features that protect music content."
Child labor. klinux I am not ranting I am attending an honors class on globalism. Study up. And that Dell knock off looks pathetic compared to an iPod. They will sell but just mediocre. Like everything Dell does. I don't see why PC people like Dell so much. It's just a mediocre company, all the way. Eugene everyone gets lucky with products. My iPod probably shouldn't still be working, same with my laptop and my hard drive I took apart because the fan was loud. However certain companies just make better products. The Humvee, the Jeep, the Mac, the Maglite, are the same calibre. They are products and companies above the rest. Dell does not belong in that category.
Studying up? I am done. I got a degree (dual major, no less) from an Ivy league university and am working at a Fortune 500 company.
Of course, I can still be an idiot but I certainly don't need to be talked down by someone who have YET to get the credential to be doing the talking down!
Furthermore, by attributing the success of Walmart and Dell primarily to child labor just shows you got a lot more studying to do.
I have never argued that Dell is like Mac, or Humvee, or any of those brands - in fact, I have argued the opposite i.e. Dell is not Bergdorf Goodman but like Walmart. There are plenty of reasons to be shopping at both places. I can get my suit at BG but my TP at Walmart.
So at least get the argument straight before you think you have the answers (not to mention a wrong and grossly simplified one at that).
Comments
Originally posted by thuh Freak
all i gotta say is that dlel tnhig is a pos without a solid-state slcorl wheel. things like that make apple cool.
Yes, it is ugly and certainly has no cool factor at all.
But if it's priced at or near $200, they will sell a boatload.
Don't under estimate the millions people who have absolutely no regard for good design, functionality and aesthetics. They will simply look at the price tag, the Dell logo and drop down their credit cards.
I think the only reason Dell is doing this is because Gateway started selling TV's which practically saved the companies ass. Then Gateway opened the floodgates and got into MP3 players and the sort.
This will be interesting to watch though .. no doubt about that.
Originally posted by Matsu
Some of you have got to be kidding. That Dell might not be as pretty as an iPod, but it's a long long long way from being ugly. The buttons are simple, the screen looks about the same, and from what we can gather, it looks to have a similar menu system to an iPod. Just because it isn't Apple doesn't mean it won't work well. Why don't you wait to see how it performs? Your aesthetic criticisms only betray pure bias, since it really isn't that different from an iPod in look and layout. Navigation (scrolling) at the top and control at the bottom reverses the iPod layout, but doesn't really seem better or worse. The iPod's jog dial is the better imput system, but a thumb scroller should also work well.
You've got to be kidding me. Anything first year industrial design student could do better. I'm not knocking it's functionality which has yet to be determined. But from a pure design aesthetic (form, texture, lines, contrast, colour, etc.) this thing is a dog's breakfast.
It seems to want to emulate an iMac with white and chrome finishes but fails to understand you can't just slap it on. Is there any reason there's a curved arc across the tops and bottom? There is absolutely no flow to this design, no harmony or order.
Aqua Blue screen with brushed Aluminium look. Dell is giving me the Apple PDA I've always wanted!
Dell, like Walmart, lowers the price for everyone.
Child labor. klinux I am not ranting I am attending an honors class on globalism. Study up. And that Dell knock off looks pathetic compared to an iPod. They will sell but just mediocre. Like everything Dell does. I don't see why PC people like Dell so much. It's just a mediocre company, all the way. Eugene everyone gets lucky with products. My iPod probably shouldn't still be working, same with my laptop and my hard drive I took apart because the fan was loud. However certain companies just make better products. The Humvee, the Jeep, the Mac, the Maglite, are the same calibre. They are products and companies above the rest. Dell does not belong in that category.
Aquatic, yes, some companies just do make better stuff, but some just have an ill deserved reputation, based on branding/image, like the Jeep example -- notoriously bad QC, but people rave about them and overlook their numerous faults because they want the image.
Originally posted by Matsu
Satchmo, those are forced criticisms if I ever read any. It's no worse looking than the vast majority of consumer electronics. So, it's not as pretty as an iPod, you're going to drop it in your pocket anyway, so who cares?
Forced?
Perhaps you can enlighten me some design attributes of the Dell...unforced, of course.
I'll give you that it's no worse than the majority of consumer electronics, but that still makes it ugly. And no, I'm pretentious and like to have my iPod seen in public...so I care.
"'It appears that Dell is re-branding one of the second-tier music services that will be announced soon, just like they are re-branding Creative's MP3 player."
It looks like Dell's long standing tried and true tradition of having absolutely NO control over their products - beyond their asthetics - remains intact.
I wonder if Creative let Dell program the Bios just to give them something to do.
Is it gorgeous? NO, the iPod looks better, but an Mp3 player can only look so go before it's just wasted effort. Dell is close enough here.
Is it original? NO. But who cares, so long as it works well and comes at a good price. When a winning formula is found there's really no need to change it, in fact, it behooves the responsible designer to copy it as much as possible. (Something Jobs himself would agree with.)
So rather than have an, "OOOH Dell, ick, it's fugly!" thread, why not think about some real issues regarding it's use and adoption.
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
These are the things that willl either make it a true iPod competitor or just a shallow copy. The thing might still turn out to be a turd, regardless of how it looks (and it most certainly doesn't look bad) The only indication we have so far is that the software appears to be similar to the iPod's menu system, but that's all you can really tell about how good or bad it might be ATM.
Originally posted by Matsu
I guarantee you that if Apple made that exact same case the very same people calling it ugly on these boards would now say it's a handsome piece. In fact, if you just take off that annoying script (which plagues far too many bits of consumer electronica -- do we need to read DELL and digital jukebox, don't we know what it is already?) it's just an annonyomus little player. Had this thing come with an Apple logo and font on the back, this thread wouldn't even exist.
Is it gorgeous? NO, the iPod looks better, but an Mp3 player can only look so go before it's just wasted effort. Dell is close enough here.
Is it original? NO. But who cares, so long as it works well and comes at a good price. When a winning formula is found there's really no need to change it, in fact, it behooves the responsible designer to copy it as much as possible. (Something Jobs himself would agree with.)
So rather than have an, "OOOH Dell, ick, it's fugly!" thread, why not think about some real issues regarding it's use and adoption.
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
These are the things that willl either make it a true iPod competitor or just a shallow copy. The thing might still turn out to be a turd, regardless of how it looks (and it most certainly doesn't look bad) The only indication we have so far is that the software appears to be similar to the iPod's menu system, but that's all you can really tell about how good or bad it might be ATM.
The issue was never about the functionality/performance of the Dell...but about it's design aesthetic. Call a spade a spade...it's fugly.
And I think loyalists are not blinded by the Apple logo (well not all of them). When the "mirrored" G4 came out, it was slammed. Compared to the QuickSilver, it looked downright gaudy. When the eMac appeared, it was also roasted as being a heavy slab of white cheese. And we know how the iBook has evolved from a multi-coloured toilet seat, to a white marvel, to a fugly plastic looking toy.
The point is, Apple is one of the few companies that actually care about it's product design. That has become a trademark of anything they produce. They strive to be original in their industrial design. There's actual thought ,discussion and customization where others just slap together things with available parts.
Originally posted by Matsu
I guarantee you that if Apple made that exact same case the very same people calling it ugly on these boards would now say it's a handsome piece.
This "argument" doesn't get any better with age.
If you peek over at the "black iBook" thread, people here have no trouble calling an Apple machine cheap or ugly looking if they think it is. Apple has the reputation they have for good design because they actually do churn out one amazing design after another. It's not AI forumgoers who are throwing awards at Jon Ive faster than he can shelve them.
The above is not an amazing design - or even a good design - by any standard. For one thing, it looks flimsy. For another, it looks "hi-tech" circa 1972.
Will it have good audio performance, battery life, transfer speed? Which formats will it support? Will it have upgradeable firmware? Will the copy protection schemes be too restrictive? What's the navigation software like?
First, like it or not, looks do matter. Not as much as Apple sometimes thinks they should (no, Steve, the Cube isn't pretty enough to justify a ~$500 premium), but they do. Also, whether the case feels (or worse, is) flimsy will have an impact.
As to the other questions, those definitely do matter, but you can't expect people to ask them when the answers haven't been released yet. Since it's just someone else's box with "Dell" stamped on it, it shouldn't be too hard to find the specs - not that I'm interested in looking myself. Note that Dell's music store will use WMP9, because MusicMatch is using that format. Draw your own conclusions about the level of DRM.
Originally posted by Matsu
You'll note, Amorph, that I said people would say it looks "handsome", not gorgeous. Ie, they'd be satisfied, though not thrilled. The iPod looks better, and if the WM9 stuff is true, then this Dell creation should be immediately consigned to the also-ran bin. However, I just don't see how this player's appearance can be called "fugly." It isn't. Ive wouldn't win an award for it, but mac heads would accept it. Contrary to what some in this thread would imply, no one will run screaming from the mere look of it. I would, however, run screaming for dear life from the prospect of WM9+M$ DRM, and so should you.
Start running:
http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5083282.html
According to the article, sources say that Dell's version will be a rebranding of Musicmatch's service. According to Musicmatch's User Guide:
"Files downloaded from the Musicmatch Downloads service are in secure WMA format. WMA (a Windows file format) offers superb sound quality and a small file size. WMA also protects your music with advanced security features that protect music content."
I assume this is WM9, correct?
Originally posted by Aquatic
Child labor. klinux I am not ranting I am attending an honors class on globalism. Study up. And that Dell knock off looks pathetic compared to an iPod. They will sell but just mediocre. Like everything Dell does. I don't see why PC people like Dell so much. It's just a mediocre company, all the way. Eugene everyone gets lucky with products. My iPod probably shouldn't still be working, same with my laptop and my hard drive I took apart because the fan was loud. However certain companies just make better products. The Humvee, the Jeep, the Mac, the Maglite, are the same calibre. They are products and companies above the rest. Dell does not belong in that category.
Studying up? I am done. I got a degree (dual major, no less) from an Ivy league university and am working at a Fortune 500 company.
Of course, I can still be an idiot but I certainly don't need to be talked down by someone who have YET to get the credential to be doing the talking down!
Furthermore, by attributing the success of Walmart and Dell primarily to child labor just shows you got a lot more studying to do.
I have never argued that Dell is like Mac, or Humvee, or any of those brands - in fact, I have argued the opposite i.e. Dell is not Bergdorf Goodman but like Walmart. There are plenty of reasons to be shopping at both places. I can get my suit at BG but my TP at Walmart.
So at least get the argument straight before you think you have the answers (not to mention a wrong and grossly simplified one at that).
Study that.