I don't understand why what he said was racist (Jimmy the Greek that is and not Rush). It reminds me of something Jerry said on Seinfeld: "If you like their race, how can that be racist?"
ESPN gets a huge publicity bomb, and there's one thing ESPN likes more than anything else: melodrama. Rush leaves and probably more people tune into his show than before.
Rush is not stupid. He is very exuberant, but what radio talk show host (or TV show host) isn't? It's a job qualification. The major reason people think he's stupid is because that's the de-facto (and even culturally "acceptable") insult from the left to the right.
I'm not sure I agree with Rush's point. I do SEE his point, but I'd say it more applies to the coaching than quaterbacks. Secondly, McNabb IS overrated.
More to the point, Rush is now being targeted for what Matt Drudge is calling an "assasinination" by the media. So far, I'd have to agree. There is no reason for Limbaugh's comments to cause this kind of explosion. All he said was that the media wanted to see a successful black quaterback, and McNabb was overrated as a result. It's at least a plausible thought...
But of course, we have Wesley Clark and Howard Dean calling for ESPN to fire Limbaugh (he's resigned). Big surprise there! Let's politicize this!
From there, the firestorm spread quickly. Democratic presidential candidates Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Rev. Al Sharpton called for ESPN to fire Limbaugh. Others in both political and athletic circles also lashed out at Limbaugh's comments.
The National Association of Black Journalists also called for ESPN to "separate itself" from Limbaugh.
""ESPN's credibility as a journalism entity is at stake," NABJ president Herbert Lowe said in a news release. "It needs to send a clear signal that the subjects of race and equal opportunity are taken seriously at its news outlets."
Please. The more I think about this, the more it gets to me. Limbaugh's comment may not be accurate, but somehow I doubt that if a black man said a white QB was overrated would get so much attention.
yeah, I gotta admit... Rush kind of blew this one. Rush isn't a racist, but it was a pretty stupid thing to say. His point may have even been well intentioned, but nonetheless, he was smart to resign - it was a dumb thing to say.
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
Err, by quite a bit? It's close to be sure, but if one asks a hundred people, I think McNabb comes out slightly ahead. On top of that, are there any other quarterbacks you would rather have than those two?
I'm drawing a blank right now on who I would choose over them. Michael Vick is close, but still immature. Chad Pennington, Joey Harrington? No. Daunte Culpepper? No. What's his name from the Patriots? No. Hometown QB David Carr has a great arm but still needs a little more matriculation. Byron Leftwich looks to have huge potential.
And I would debate the suggestion that a QB can carry a team. I really doubt any QB can carry bad team. Really really doubt it. A good team really is an integration of good coaching, motivated players, and good offense/defense design schemes.
I'd take both McNair and Culpepper over McNabb. Culpepper is a freaking linebacker playing QB and playing it very well. McNair is the toughest player in the game.
Most QBs when compared to McNair are going to look overrated. That's because McNair is so underrated. I'd take McNair over McNabb but I'd take McNabb over Fiedler. So? I don't know what skin color has to do with whether or not someone is overrated. Doesn't Limbaugh know of any overrated white atheletes?
This contoversy is very annoying. I hate it when Jesse Jackson feels the need to inject race into every conversation. It's no less irritating when Limbaugh decides to do the same damn thing.
McNabb may be overrated... but not because he's BLACK! His race has nothing to do with his on the field performance... if "the media" wanted a black QB to do well... which I really don't get why that would be a BAD thing... they would be more interested in Vick or McNair... and I think the media is interested in seeing them do well... not because they are black... but because they are exciting Quarterbacks to watch.
Face it... RUSH is a TOOL. And he was just used to his ditto heads agreeing with him 99.9% of the time... the US is not full of ditto heads that agree with him.
but rush is a very smart guy. he resigned. therefore, he can always claim he took the high road out of town (which, ironically, he did), and blame will be implicit upon people who were outraged. bloody brilliant.
but it still doesn't change the fact that due to his position in the public medium, where he is afforded as much (if not more) attention and spotlight than even politicians these days, he said a very tactless thing. you don't have to offend to get your point across. is it catering to a "pc" viewpoint? no. just blathering out whatever you feel like saying without regard for others is irresponsible and lazy.
(edit: but you know, i can see the other side, too, where people in the public eye might benefit from being able to say those things that your noraml average joe couldn't for fear of retaliation. i mean, it's not like rush is alone in his evaluation... he's just more obnoxious about it. the folks on "tough crowd with colin quinn" are just as, if not MORE obnoxious, crude and offensive on social topics than he is when they really get going.
i dunno. in the end, i think what he said was stupid, but i don't think he should lose his job -- by resignation or firing -- over it. not when he was hired to do just what he did, and espn knew what they were getting for their ratings boost.)
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
What Dusty Baker said wasn't at all related to what Rush said.
If I was going to build a team right now I would choose the following over McNabb:
Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, Chad Pennington, Drew Bledsoe, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia
Mike Vick I can see, maybe because of his almost there experience. But Culpepper I wouldn't since he isn't the most accurate passer I've seen. I've been watching the Vikings for the better part of my life and Culpepper isn't quite there yet. Favre has got the gumption but is also on the backside of his career. Pennington is young, give him another year and we'll see. Bledsoe and Manning don't seem to perform all that well during the big games. Both Green and Garcia are servicible, perhaps we really can't say that much about them yet. Green may win the superbowl with the Chiefs, but I wouldn't call him a better QB than McNabb.
Quote:
I think Leftwich and Carr will prove to be better than McNabb soon enough.
They've got better odds of not fulfilling their potential then turning into great QBs. A part of McNabb's overratedness is being on a team that made the playoffs in 3 straight years so early in his career. Probably in the same vein as Dan Marino was. McNabb's uniqueness to me seems to be the ability to make the play when it counts. Maybe I'm wrong considering last years NFC title game, but that's what I see in him and I don't see in others.
I thikn Limbaugh got in trouble for the same reasons Maher, Franken, and Coulter get in trouble. It is hard to straddle two worlds and not get heat from both of them. Maher was fired from Politically Incorrect by the same company. ABC/ESPN/Disney should just grow some backbone or decide they aren't going to hire these political/entertainers.
I really liked Politically Incorrect and occasionally catch Real Time. I never saw Limbaugh give commentary on ESPN but I would bet he was hired to be a bit edgy. You hire edgy and then get it, you should be upset. This is true of all of these types of commentators/entertainers.
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
BR I agree completely. We all (ALL) say stupid things.
Our society is a strange animal; on the one hand of course nobody is an advocate for racism, slavery, repression of rights for women or minorities (BUT) Now with that said are we to live in context of absolute PC???? I think people make unwise choices of statements and nobody is out of that loop. Any race, sex, income level, social status, we all make statements that are not 100% PC.
Some people like to play PC police and yet others like to play the "victom" I am not an advocate of non-PC speech but I would suggest that people have some balance about themselves if a fellow citizen says a non PC statement. It should not be viewed as criminal or "the end of the world" if a person says a stupid choice of words. We should all be bigger than the words some person blurts out.
but rush is a very smart guy. he resigned. therefore, he can always claim he took the high road out of town (which, ironically, he did), and blame will be implicit upon people who were outraged. bloody brilliant.
Please. Try predictable. It was obvious he was going to quit and not wait to get fired if the kitchen got too hot. The comment was stupid. Period. If he's such a smart guy, doubly stupid because he should've known better.
If he were the only black quarterback around, I may have listened. But he isn't.
BR I agree completely. We all (ALL) say stupid things.
Our society is a strange animal; on the one hand of course nobody is an advocate for racism, slavery, repression of rights for women or minorities (BUT) Now with that said are we to live in context of absolute PC???? I think people make unwise choices of statements and nobody is out of that loop. Any race, sex, income level, social status, we all make statements that are not 100% PC.
Some people like to play PC police and yet others like to play the "victom" I am not an advocate of non-PC speech but I would suggest that people have some balance about themselves if a fellow citizen says a non PC statement. It should not be viewed as criminal or "the end of the world" if a person says a stupid choice of words. We should all be bigger than the words some person blurts out.
Fellowship
"Political correctness" doesn't exist. It's a creation of the right. Blah, blah, blah. Someone want to fight this one for me? Already did in 10 other threads.
"Political correctness" doesn't exist. It's a creation of the right. Blah, blah, blah. Someone want to fight this one for me? Already did in 10 other threads.
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Fellowship
Are you ****ing kidding? You are really out there...
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Fellowship
Someday I'll grow up and learn to make things personal just like you.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Anyone remember Jimmy the Greek? Didn't think so
(an unfair comparison but ...)
I don't understand why what he said was racist (Jimmy the Greek that is and not Rush). It reminds me of something Jerry said on Seinfeld: "If you like their race, how can that be racist?"
ESPN gets a huge publicity bomb, and there's one thing ESPN likes more than anything else: melodrama. Rush leaves and probably more people tune into his show than before.
Rush is not stupid. He is very exuberant, but what radio talk show host (or TV show host) isn't? It's a job qualification. The major reason people think he's stupid is because that's the de-facto (and even culturally "acceptable") insult from the left to the right.
More to the point, Rush is now being targeted for what Matt Drudge is calling an "assasinination" by the media. So far, I'd have to agree. There is no reason for Limbaugh's comments to cause this kind of explosion. All he said was that the media wanted to see a successful black quaterback, and McNabb was overrated as a result. It's at least a plausible thought...
But of course, we have Wesley Clark and Howard Dean calling for ESPN to fire Limbaugh (he's resigned). Big surprise there! Let's politicize this!
http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html
From there, the firestorm spread quickly. Democratic presidential candidates Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Rev. Al Sharpton called for ESPN to fire Limbaugh. Others in both political and athletic circles also lashed out at Limbaugh's comments.
The National Association of Black Journalists also called for ESPN to "separate itself" from Limbaugh.
""ESPN's credibility as a journalism entity is at stake," NABJ president Herbert Lowe said in a news release. "It needs to send a clear signal that the subjects of race and equal opportunity are taken seriously at its news outlets."
Please. The more I think about this, the more it gets to me. Limbaugh's comment may not be accurate, but somehow I doubt that if a black man said a white QB was overrated would get so much attention.
Originally posted by OBJRA10
yeah, I gotta admit... Rush kind of blew this one. Rush isn't a racist, but it was a pretty stupid thing to say. His point may have even been well intentioned, but nonetheless, he was smart to resign - it was a dumb thing to say.
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
Originally posted by THT
Err, by quite a bit? It's close to be sure, but if one asks a hundred people, I think McNabb comes out slightly ahead. On top of that, are there any other quarterbacks you would rather have than those two?
I'm drawing a blank right now on who I would choose over them. Michael Vick is close, but still immature. Chad Pennington, Joey Harrington? No. Daunte Culpepper? No. What's his name from the Patriots? No. Hometown QB David Carr has a great arm but still needs a little more matriculation. Byron Leftwich looks to have huge potential.
And I would debate the suggestion that a QB can carry a team. I really doubt any QB can carry bad team. Really really doubt it. A good team really is an integration of good coaching, motivated players, and good offense/defense design schemes.
I'd take both McNair and Culpepper over McNabb. Culpepper is a freaking linebacker playing QB and playing it very well. McNair is the toughest player in the game.
Yes! At least I didn't miss any events. CNNSI isn't the greatest.... I still have to fault ESPN on this one. They knew what they were getting into.
If I was going to build a team right now I would choose the following over McNabb:
black:
Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair
white:
Brett Favre, Chad Pennington, Drew Bledsoe, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia
I think Leftwich and Carr will prove to be better than McNabb soon enough.
This contoversy is very annoying. I hate it when Jesse Jackson feels the need to inject race into every conversation. It's no less irritating when Limbaugh decides to do the same damn thing.
Originally posted by groverat
THT:
If I was going to build a team right now...
Uh, right now Pennington wouldn't do you much good.
Face it... RUSH is a TOOL. And he was just used to his ditto heads agreeing with him 99.9% of the time... the US is not full of ditto heads that agree with him.
but it still doesn't change the fact that due to his position in the public medium, where he is afforded as much (if not more) attention and spotlight than even politicians these days, he said a very tactless thing. you don't have to offend to get your point across. is it catering to a "pc" viewpoint? no. just blathering out whatever you feel like saying without regard for others is irresponsible and lazy.
(edit: but you know, i can see the other side, too, where people in the public eye might benefit from being able to say those things that your noraml average joe couldn't for fear of retaliation. i mean, it's not like rush is alone in his evaluation... he's just more obnoxious about it. the folks on "tough crowd with colin quinn" are just as, if not MORE obnoxious, crude and offensive on social topics than he is when they really get going.
i dunno. in the end, i think what he said was stupid, but i don't think he should lose his job -- by resignation or firing -- over it. not when he was hired to do just what he did, and espn knew what they were getting for their ratings boost.)
Originally posted by BR
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
What Dusty Baker said wasn't at all related to what Rush said.
Originally posted by groverat
If I was going to build a team right now I would choose the following over McNabb:
Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, Chad Pennington, Drew Bledsoe, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia
Mike Vick I can see, maybe because of his almost there experience. But Culpepper I wouldn't since he isn't the most accurate passer I've seen. I've been watching the Vikings for the better part of my life and Culpepper isn't quite there yet. Favre has got the gumption but is also on the backside of his career. Pennington is young, give him another year and we'll see. Bledsoe and Manning don't seem to perform all that well during the big games. Both Green and Garcia are servicible, perhaps we really can't say that much about them yet. Green may win the superbowl with the Chiefs, but I wouldn't call him a better QB than McNabb.
I think Leftwich and Carr will prove to be better than McNabb soon enough.
They've got better odds of not fulfilling their potential then turning into great QBs. A part of McNabb's overratedness is being on a team that made the playoffs in 3 straight years so early in his career. Probably in the same vein as Dan Marino was. McNabb's uniqueness to me seems to be the ability to make the play when it counts. Maybe I'm wrong considering last years NFC title game, but that's what I see in him and I don't see in others.
I really liked Politically Incorrect and occasionally catch Real Time. I never saw Limbaugh give commentary on ESPN but I would bet he was hired to be a bit edgy. You hire edgy and then get it, you should be upset. This is true of all of these types of commentators/entertainers.
Nick
Originally posted by BR
No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.
So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.
BR I agree completely. We all (ALL) say stupid things.
Our society is a strange animal; on the one hand of course nobody is an advocate for racism, slavery, repression of rights for women or minorities (BUT) Now with that said are we to live in context of absolute PC???? I think people make unwise choices of statements and nobody is out of that loop. Any race, sex, income level, social status, we all make statements that are not 100% PC.
Some people like to play PC police and yet others like to play the "victom" I am not an advocate of non-PC speech but I would suggest that people have some balance about themselves if a fellow citizen says a non PC statement. It should not be viewed as criminal or "the end of the world" if a person says a stupid choice of words. We should all be bigger than the words some person blurts out.
Fellowship
Originally posted by rok
but rush is a very smart guy. he resigned. therefore, he can always claim he took the high road out of town (which, ironically, he did), and blame will be implicit upon people who were outraged. bloody brilliant.
If he were the only black quarterback around, I may have listened. But he isn't.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
BR I agree completely. We all (ALL) say stupid things.
Our society is a strange animal; on the one hand of course nobody is an advocate for racism, slavery, repression of rights for women or minorities (BUT) Now with that said are we to live in context of absolute PC???? I think people make unwise choices of statements and nobody is out of that loop. Any race, sex, income level, social status, we all make statements that are not 100% PC.
Some people like to play PC police and yet others like to play the "victom" I am not an advocate of non-PC speech but I would suggest that people have some balance about themselves if a fellow citizen says a non PC statement. It should not be viewed as criminal or "the end of the world" if a person says a stupid choice of words. We should all be bigger than the words some person blurts out.
Fellowship
"Political correctness" doesn't exist. It's a creation of the right. Blah, blah, blah. Someone want to fight this one for me? Already did in 10 other threads.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
"Political correctness" doesn't exist. It's a creation of the right. Blah, blah, blah. Someone want to fight this one for me? Already did in 10 other threads.
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Fellowship
Are you ****ing kidding? You are really out there...
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.
Fellowship
Someday I'll grow up and learn to make things personal just like you.