You used the word "endorse" and I tell you to look the word up in the dictionary because you either (1) don't know the definition of the word or (2) were trolling. I think it's (2).
And I'd like an answer to this question:
Which institution has "protected" (using your definition of not turning in admitted felons) more rapists: Christianity or Planned Parenthood?
You used the word "endorse" and I tell you to look the word up in the dictionary because you either (1) don't know the definition of the word or (2) were trolling. I think it's (2).
And I'd like an answer to this question:
Which institution has "protected" (using your definition of not turning in admitted felons) more rapists: Christianity or Planned Parenthood?
Gee I don't know since your question involves two entities that are not alike. Christianity isn't an "institution." Likewise some people consider different religions to be "Christian" while other people do not. For example Protestants do not consider Catholics or Mormons to be "Christian."
So thanks for trying to drag the topic off-track and even then how would I answer your question.
It's nice to know though that you won't condemn an organization that makes rape of 13 year old children possible though. You try to shift blame and the topic rather than address it.
Endorse- To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement; sanction:
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
Endorse- To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement; sanction:
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
*shakes head*
Come on. What a rediculous statement to make. Are you actually inferring that they openly support rape? If you believe that to be the case then this debate is over, because you would be a complete idiot.
Gee I don't know since your question involves two entities that are not alike. Christianity isn't an "institution."
Well, that's not true, but I'll humor you.
Catholocism vs. Planned Parenthood; which one has "protected" more rapists by not turning them over to authorities?
Quote:
So thanks for trying to drag the topic off-track and even then how would I answer your question.
You woudln't because you don't like the answer.
Quote:
It's nice to know though that you won't condemn an organization that makes rape of 13 year old children possible though. You try to shift blame and the topic rather than address it.
I haven't really seen much to make PP worth condemnation. They seem to have a conflict between a moral repulsion to the act and an obligation (perhaps legal) to maintain privacy and confidentiality.
Quote:
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
So Catholic priests approve of all the illegal activities hear about in confession?
What I'm looking for here is a little intellectual honesty.
You know, since 13 year olds can be married in some states, you're repeated use of the word 'rape' is really not called for. It is not constructive and demonstrates you would rather be a troll than have a real discussion.
You will also note, giant, that trumptman was the one the question was directed to and he initially used the word rape.
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
This is just wrong. As somene who is a mandated reporter myself, it sickens me to think that these clinics would assist these rapists in continuing their abuse.
Health-care personnel are ordinarily mandatory reporters of child abuse....
Partially due to the publicity surrounding this nationwide survey, officials on the Los Angeles County board of supervisors have asked California's attorney general, Bill Lockyer to clarify the state's policy regarding the reporting of suspected statutory rape. Do abortion clinics in California have the same responsibility to report possible child abuse, as other health-care workers, therapists, and teachers?
The abortion lobby contends that a "woman's right to choose" requires complete confidentiality. But the issue here isn't what she is going to do about this pregnancy. The issue is whether the state of California should, as a matter of public policy, assume she has "chosen" this particular sexual relationship in any meaningful sense.
According to this article Planned Parenthood isn't required to report this. Planned Parenthood is protecting children. If a 13 year old is afraid to go get legal medical treatment they may do something else like take a coat hanger and have someone prod them in an alley. I'm sure PP encourages the kid to go tell the police on her own because they do not support rape or rapists. But they also know they can be more effective if they leave the decision up to the woman.
Catholocism vs. Planned Parenthood; which one has "protected" more rapists by not turning them over to authorities?
You woudln't because you don't like the answer.
I haven't really seen much to make PP worth condemnation. They seem to have a conflict between a moral repulsion to the act and an obligation (perhaps legal) to maintain privacy and confidentiality.
So Catholic priests approve of all the illegal activities hear about in confession?
What I'm looking for here is a little intellectual honesty.
Well to Groveville, since he can't address the thread, he has to repeat his off topic crap. Please look at the left hand, take no notice of the right.
I don't give a crap about the Catholic Church. Is that clear enough for you? You want me to condemn whoever in that organization attempts to hide or protect priests who rape and molest little boys. They are condemned by me.
So how is that for not liking the "answer" you claim.
As for which has protected more? What sort of bullshit is that? Planned Parenthood is supposed to be okay because they protect more or fewer rapists? Talk about sidetracking the issue.
I don't really give a crap who protected more or fewer. I'll condemn them both and say that neither should do what they have done.
So now your little "side" issue should be dealt with and if it isn't, start a thread on it instead of attempting to derail this one.
You know, since 13 year olds can be married in some states, you're repeated use of the word 'rape' is really not called for. It is not constructive and demonstrates you would rather be a troll than have a real discussion.
Hey and the Constitution said that blacks were 3/5th's of a person so it must be right too....
According to this article Planned Parenthood isn't required to report this. Planned Parenthood is protecting children. If a 13 year old is afraid to go get legal medical treatment they may do something else like take a coat hanger and have someone prod them in an alley. I'm sure PP encourages the kid to go tell the police on her own because they do not support rape or rapists. But they also know they can be more effective if they leave the decision up to the woman.
I wish people wouldn't leave off the next half of the sentence.
Quote:
Health-care personnel are ordinarily mandatory reporters of child abuse. But a recent survey has prompted the question of whether abortion clinics take this responsibility seriously.
The responsibility of Planned Parenthood is to report. They have asked Bill Lockyer to clarify this since they DO NOT report when they are mandated to do so. It is the contention of Planned Parenthood that the right to privacy (even when abuse has been committed) overrides all else.
That simply shouldn't be true with child abuse and has been proven not to be true. The privacy of parents and children has been outweighed by the need to prevent abuse. Planned Parenthood shouldn't be above this.
Think rationally for a second. Is a policy that would allow a father to molest his 12-13 year old daughter, get her pregnant, drive her down to a clinic and begin to repeat the process again right in your mind? We aren't talking about adult women and their sexual freedom. We are talking about children too young to consent.
The responsibility of Planned Parenthood is to report.
Not according to this article.
These aren't machines, they're people. If someone says they won't come in if they have to report the incident to the police (like this phone conversation) then it's PP's responsibility to help the person any way they can. Turning them away doesn't help.
If someone shows up and gets help and never says 'don't report this', PP may very well report it. Doing so wouldn't necessarily break any trust.
You know, since 13 year olds can be married in some states, you're repeated use of the word 'rape' is really not called for. It is not constructive and demonstrates you would rather be a troll than have a real discussion.
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Hey and the Constitution said that blacks were 3/5th's of a person so it must be right too....
Idiot...
Nick
Thanks for the laugh you just gave me between 101 Reykjavik on my 9 foot screen and sleep! I owe you one.
These aren't machines, they're people. If someone says they won't come in if they have to report the incident to the police (like this phone conversation) then it's PP's responsibility to help the person any way they can. Turning them away doesn't help.
If someone shows up and gets help and never says 'don't report this', PP may very well report it. Doing so wouldn't necessarily break any trust.
No one said turn them away. Let me make that clear that in this thread I have never said to turn away that child or deny her an abortion. Just afterwards that there would be an investigation. She isn't harmed by the investigation but the article mentions that it could tip her parents off that she had an abortion. I think the concern against rape and molestation outweighs the possible embarassment of having the parents possibly put 2 and 2 together AFTER the abortion. The article nor have I ever contended that any charges or investigations should occur before the abortion.
Likewise with the same reasoning, should any school personnel or medical providers be required reporters? I mean don't you think there is the possibility that a child will miss school because the parents don't want the bruising from yet another beating questioned? Don't you think if a parent has to seek medical attention for a child related to abuse that the might not do so if they believe the abuse might be reported? So isn't it true, by your reasoning, that they just wouldn't get the child treatment?
Yet our public desire for protection of the child outweighs those concerns and even privacy concerns.
Why would they need to ask for clarification for a policy that doesn't apply to them?
It does apply and they are asking for clarification to see if there is a way that they can be officially told they do not need to report. No one had bothered to see if they were reporting and now this survey has revealed that fact. They are asking for the "clarification" to likely avoid lawsuits.
I am inserviced on and sign off on this law once a year. I don't have a link to it but it is a very stiff law with large penalties. It is one of the few times I would be allowed to be civilly sued as a public servant for example.
I think what is at issue here is that this hypothetical situation is not one of merit to assign an obvious rape charge. While the laws do differ from state to state, even if this was a rape charge, I believe most states leave it to the discretion of the individual to press charges since rape is for all intents and purposes a very private thing. (These laws are constructred in such a way that a serial rapist whose victims never report the crime or alternatively never press charges could still be out raping people ad infinitum).
What I would admit is that this could be better construed as a molestation case. And in that event, it is up to the victim or the victim's gaurdians (for persons less than whatever the legal adult age is locally), or if it appears to be one of the gaurdians is the molester, then an outside person. Teachers cannot just make a claim of molestation, because that would be libel if it were not the case. What this leaves us with is that since planned parenthood maintains the confidentiality of its patients (regardless of age), then they cannot report to the parents, and these parents cannot report a crime. Since the boyfriend was not the legal gaurdian, then I do not believe that there is any way for a charge to be brought legally. This is not an issue with planned parenthood, this is an issue with the law, that at one point tries to prosecute a crime, but at another point leaves it up to the victim to decide (or the victim's gaurdians).
Of note is that it should be the parents who bring the charges of molestation/rape, and they do not exist in the case of this teenager.
I think what is at issue here is that this hypothetical situation is not one of merit to assign an obvious rape charge. While the laws do differ from state to state, even if this was a rape charge, I believe most states leave it to the discretion of the individual to press charges since rape is for all intents and purposes a very private thing. (These laws are constructred in such a way that a serial rapist whose victims never report the crime or alternatively never press charges could still be out raping people ad infinitum).
What I would admit is that this could be better construed as a molestation case. And in that event, it is up to the victim or the victim's gaurdians (for persons less than whatever the legal adult age is locally), or if it appears to be one of the gaurdians is the molester, then an outside person. Teachers cannot just make a claim of molestation, because that would be libel if it were not the case. What this leaves us with is that since planned parenthood maintains the confidentiality of its patients (regardless of age), then they cannot report to the parents, and these parents cannot report a crime. Since the boyfriend was not the legal gaurdian, then I do not believe that there is any way for a charge to be brought legally. This is not an issue with planned parenthood, this is an issue with the law, that at one point tries to prosecute a crime, but at another point leaves it up to the victim to decide (or the victim's gaurdians).
Of note is that it should be the parents who bring the charges of molestation/rape, and they do not exist in the case of this teenager.
You're flat out wrong. The parents don't have to bring up the charges. The state will do so acting on the child's behalf. This is also true for fully adult women and domestic violence charges. The man can be prosecuted even if she has fully recanted her story and declared no desire to press charges.
Planned Parenthood would not have to contact anyone in the family. All the would do is fill out a one page form and contact the local government child welfare/protective agency(CPS). That agency would come out afterwards and do an interview. If the interview were negative, or inconclusive (ie 16 year old screwing another 16 year old as others have suggested here) then nothing would happen. However if there were a positive result, (father molesting daughter, predatory older man seeking out children, etc.) then the female child would be given whatever assistance is considered most appropriate.
I know this because I have had to actually fill out that form for suspected child abuse about 8 times over 11 years. They clearly indicate that it is better for them to investigate and find nothing than to let an abuse occur so if in doubt, report.
When I was a child we had CPS come out to our house because my brother and sister both managed to break their arms within a month of each other. CPS found nothing and life moved on. But if someone had been abusing us and breaking our arms in their fits, I would have been very thankful to whoever reported. This could be true for a menacing, molesting father, an older boyfriend who blackmales and manipulates, etc. If you don't know what healthy adult relationships are, you might not even know you are being treated in an abusive manner.
Comments
You used the word "endorse" and I tell you to look the word up in the dictionary because you either (1) don't know the definition of the word or (2) were trolling. I think it's (2).
And I'd like an answer to this question:
Which institution has "protected" (using your definition of not turning in admitted felons) more rapists: Christianity or Planned Parenthood?
Originally posted by groverat
"Bullshit"?
You used the word "endorse" and I tell you to look the word up in the dictionary because you either (1) don't know the definition of the word or (2) were trolling. I think it's (2).
And I'd like an answer to this question:
Which institution has "protected" (using your definition of not turning in admitted felons) more rapists: Christianity or Planned Parenthood?
Gee I don't know since your question involves two entities that are not alike. Christianity isn't an "institution." Likewise some people consider different religions to be "Christian" while other people do not. For example Protestants do not consider Catholics or Mormons to be "Christian."
So thanks for trying to drag the topic off-track and even then how would I answer your question.
It's nice to know though that you won't condemn an organization that makes rape of 13 year old children possible though. You try to shift blame and the topic rather than address it.
Nick
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Endorse- To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement; sanction:
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
*shakes head*
Come on. What a rediculous statement to make. Are you actually inferring that they openly support rape? If you believe that to be the case then this debate is over, because you would be a complete idiot.
Gee I don't know since your question involves two entities that are not alike. Christianity isn't an "institution."
Well, that's not true, but I'll humor you.
Catholocism vs. Planned Parenthood; which one has "protected" more rapists by not turning them over to authorities?
So thanks for trying to drag the topic off-track and even then how would I answer your question.
You woudln't because you don't like the answer.
It's nice to know though that you won't condemn an organization that makes rape of 13 year old children possible though. You try to shift blame and the topic rather than address it.
I haven't really seen much to make PP worth condemnation. They seem to have a conflict between a moral repulsion to the act and an obligation (perhaps legal) to maintain privacy and confidentiality.
They said that they would give the 13 year old an abortion without reporting the 22 year old. That gives approval to his actions since if they didn't they would turn him in.
So Catholic priests approve of all the illegal activities hear about in confession?
What I'm looking for here is a little intellectual honesty.
misunderstanding cleared up. no longer applicable.
[/edit]
Originally posted by trumptman
This is just wrong. As somene who is a mandated reporter myself, it sickens me to think that these clinics would assist these rapists in continuing their abuse.
Originally posted by rageous
You will also note, giant, that trumptman was the one the question was directed to and he initially used the word rape.
It was directed at trumptman. Sorry I didn't make it clear.
For example Protestants do not consider Catholics or Mormons to be "Christian."
Seriously? Why is that? They say you learn something new every day, but that's really surprising to me.
Health-care personnel are ordinarily mandatory reporters of child abuse....
Partially due to the publicity surrounding this nationwide survey, officials on the Los Angeles County board of supervisors have asked California's attorney general, Bill Lockyer to clarify the state's policy regarding the reporting of suspected statutory rape. Do abortion clinics in California have the same responsibility to report possible child abuse, as other health-care workers, therapists, and teachers?
The abortion lobby contends that a "woman's right to choose" requires complete confidentiality. But the issue here isn't what she is going to do about this pregnancy. The issue is whether the state of California should, as a matter of public policy, assume she has "chosen" this particular sexual relationship in any meaningful sense.
According to this article Planned Parenthood isn't required to report this. Planned Parenthood is protecting children. If a 13 year old is afraid to go get legal medical treatment they may do something else like take a coat hanger and have someone prod them in an alley. I'm sure PP encourages the kid to go tell the police on her own because they do not support rape or rapists. But they also know they can be more effective if they leave the decision up to the woman.
Originally posted by groverat
trumptman:
Well, that's not true, but I'll humor you.
Catholocism vs. Planned Parenthood; which one has "protected" more rapists by not turning them over to authorities?
You woudln't because you don't like the answer.
I haven't really seen much to make PP worth condemnation. They seem to have a conflict between a moral repulsion to the act and an obligation (perhaps legal) to maintain privacy and confidentiality.
So Catholic priests approve of all the illegal activities hear about in confession?
What I'm looking for here is a little intellectual honesty.
Well to Groveville, since he can't address the thread, he has to repeat his off topic crap. Please look at the left hand, take no notice of the right.
I don't give a crap about the Catholic Church. Is that clear enough for you? You want me to condemn whoever in that organization attempts to hide or protect priests who rape and molest little boys. They are condemned by me.
So how is that for not liking the "answer" you claim.
As for which has protected more? What sort of bullshit is that? Planned Parenthood is supposed to be okay because they protect more or fewer rapists? Talk about sidetracking the issue.
I don't really give a crap who protected more or fewer. I'll condemn them both and say that neither should do what they have done.
So now your little "side" issue should be dealt with and if it isn't, start a thread on it instead of attempting to derail this one.
Nick
Originally posted by giant
You know, since 13 year olds can be married in some states, you're repeated use of the word 'rape' is really not called for. It is not constructive and demonstrates you would rather be a troll than have a real discussion.
Hey and the Constitution said that blacks were 3/5th's of a person so it must be right too....
Idiot...
Nick
Originally posted by bunge
I wish people would read the articles.
According to this article Planned Parenthood isn't required to report this. Planned Parenthood is protecting children. If a 13 year old is afraid to go get legal medical treatment they may do something else like take a coat hanger and have someone prod them in an alley. I'm sure PP encourages the kid to go tell the police on her own because they do not support rape or rapists. But they also know they can be more effective if they leave the decision up to the woman.
I wish people wouldn't leave off the next half of the sentence.
Health-care personnel are ordinarily mandatory reporters of child abuse. But a recent survey has prompted the question of whether abortion clinics take this responsibility seriously.
The responsibility of Planned Parenthood is to report. They have asked Bill Lockyer to clarify this since they DO NOT report when they are mandated to do so. It is the contention of Planned Parenthood that the right to privacy (even when abuse has been committed) overrides all else.
That simply shouldn't be true with child abuse and has been proven not to be true. The privacy of parents and children has been outweighed by the need to prevent abuse. Planned Parenthood shouldn't be above this.
Think rationally for a second. Is a policy that would allow a father to molest his 12-13 year old daughter, get her pregnant, drive her down to a clinic and begin to repeat the process again right in your mind? We aren't talking about adult women and their sexual freedom. We are talking about children too young to consent.
Come on....
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
The responsibility of Planned Parenthood is to report.
Not according to this article.
These aren't machines, they're people. If someone says they won't come in if they have to report the incident to the police (like this phone conversation) then it's PP's responsibility to help the person any way they can. Turning them away doesn't help.
If someone shows up and gets help and never says 'don't report this', PP may very well report it. Doing so wouldn't necessarily break any trust.
Originally posted by giant
You know, since 13 year olds can be married in some states, you're repeated use of the word 'rape' is really not called for. It is not constructive and demonstrates you would rather be a troll than have a real discussion.
Originally posted by trumptman
Hey and the Constitution said that blacks were 3/5th's of a person so it must be right too....
Idiot...
Nick
Thanks for the laugh you just gave me between 101 Reykjavik on my 9 foot screen and sleep! I owe you one.
Originally posted by bunge
Not according to this article.
These aren't machines, they're people. If someone says they won't come in if they have to report the incident to the police (like this phone conversation) then it's PP's responsibility to help the person any way they can. Turning them away doesn't help.
If someone shows up and gets help and never says 'don't report this', PP may very well report it. Doing so wouldn't necessarily break any trust.
No one said turn them away. Let me make that clear that in this thread I have never said to turn away that child or deny her an abortion. Just afterwards that there would be an investigation. She isn't harmed by the investigation but the article mentions that it could tip her parents off that she had an abortion. I think the concern against rape and molestation outweighs the possible embarassment of having the parents possibly put 2 and 2 together AFTER the abortion. The article nor have I ever contended that any charges or investigations should occur before the abortion.
Likewise with the same reasoning, should any school personnel or medical providers be required reporters? I mean don't you think there is the possibility that a child will miss school because the parents don't want the bruising from yet another beating questioned? Don't you think if a parent has to seek medical attention for a child related to abuse that the might not do so if they believe the abuse might be reported? So isn't it true, by your reasoning, that they just wouldn't get the child treatment?
Yet our public desire for protection of the child outweighs those concerns and even privacy concerns.
Why would they need to ask for clarification for a policy that doesn't apply to them?
It does apply and they are asking for clarification to see if there is a way that they can be officially told they do not need to report. No one had bothered to see if they were reporting and now this survey has revealed that fact. They are asking for the "clarification" to likely avoid lawsuits.
I am inserviced on and sign off on this law once a year. I don't have a link to it but it is a very stiff law with large penalties. It is one of the few times I would be allowed to be civilly sued as a public servant for example.
Nick
What I would admit is that this could be better construed as a molestation case. And in that event, it is up to the victim or the victim's gaurdians (for persons less than whatever the legal adult age is locally), or if it appears to be one of the gaurdians is the molester, then an outside person. Teachers cannot just make a claim of molestation, because that would be libel if it were not the case. What this leaves us with is that since planned parenthood maintains the confidentiality of its patients (regardless of age), then they cannot report to the parents, and these parents cannot report a crime. Since the boyfriend was not the legal gaurdian, then I do not believe that there is any way for a charge to be brought legally. This is not an issue with planned parenthood, this is an issue with the law, that at one point tries to prosecute a crime, but at another point leaves it up to the victim to decide (or the victim's gaurdians).
Of note is that it should be the parents who bring the charges of molestation/rape, and they do not exist in the case of this teenager.
Originally posted by billybobsky
I think what is at issue here is that this hypothetical situation is not one of merit to assign an obvious rape charge. While the laws do differ from state to state, even if this was a rape charge, I believe most states leave it to the discretion of the individual to press charges since rape is for all intents and purposes a very private thing. (These laws are constructred in such a way that a serial rapist whose victims never report the crime or alternatively never press charges could still be out raping people ad infinitum).
What I would admit is that this could be better construed as a molestation case. And in that event, it is up to the victim or the victim's gaurdians (for persons less than whatever the legal adult age is locally), or if it appears to be one of the gaurdians is the molester, then an outside person. Teachers cannot just make a claim of molestation, because that would be libel if it were not the case. What this leaves us with is that since planned parenthood maintains the confidentiality of its patients (regardless of age), then they cannot report to the parents, and these parents cannot report a crime. Since the boyfriend was not the legal gaurdian, then I do not believe that there is any way for a charge to be brought legally. This is not an issue with planned parenthood, this is an issue with the law, that at one point tries to prosecute a crime, but at another point leaves it up to the victim to decide (or the victim's gaurdians).
Of note is that it should be the parents who bring the charges of molestation/rape, and they do not exist in the case of this teenager.
You're flat out wrong. The parents don't have to bring up the charges. The state will do so acting on the child's behalf. This is also true for fully adult women and domestic violence charges. The man can be prosecuted even if she has fully recanted her story and declared no desire to press charges.
Planned Parenthood would not have to contact anyone in the family. All the would do is fill out a one page form and contact the local government child welfare/protective agency(CPS). That agency would come out afterwards and do an interview. If the interview were negative, or inconclusive (ie 16 year old screwing another 16 year old as others have suggested here) then nothing would happen. However if there were a positive result, (father molesting daughter, predatory older man seeking out children, etc.) then the female child would be given whatever assistance is considered most appropriate.
I know this because I have had to actually fill out that form for suspected child abuse about 8 times over 11 years. They clearly indicate that it is better for them to investigate and find nothing than to let an abuse occur so if in doubt, report.
When I was a child we had CPS come out to our house because my brother and sister both managed to break their arms within a month of each other. CPS found nothing and life moved on. But if someone had been abusing us and breaking our arms in their fits, I would have been very thankful to whoever reported. This could be true for a menacing, molesting father, an older boyfriend who blackmales and manipulates, etc. If you don't know what healthy adult relationships are, you might not even know you are being treated in an abusive manner.
Nick