You have to attack the source since no one in their right mind would call that compassion.
I'm not attacking the source. The article is quite explicit in what it believes and what it wants (despite laying it on a bit thick).
I'm attacking you and your bizarre focus on one tiny angle of this argument which you have managed to polarize into peadophile rapists versus truptman, and your either with them or you.
Let me state for the record that I am happy for Planned Parenthood to promise anonymity (and keep that promise) to 13-year-old girls being abused by 22-year-old men, if that then encourages them to enter into the health care system and receive counselling and advice as well as abortions. I'm sure the 16-year-olds and their teenage boyfriends will appreciate this too.
So why don't you give this topic the care and attention it deserves or just drop it. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve with this second-hand shock-jock routine anyway.
I put this in the top 10 dumbest insults here on AO. It's wild that you manage to butcher such a simple insult you picked up from the people you spend the most time with: 10 year olds.
I can't figure out whether you are just totally in denial or if you just pretend you are to entertain yourself.
Silly rabbit. Don't you know you are the entertainment? Watching your rabid semi-coherent replies scroll across the screen is the closest thing to comic relief I have seen.
Thanks for showing your agenda is devoid of any true compassion. Instead it is just buzzwords, wedge issues, interest groups and selling out others to get for yourself.
The next time someone tries to chastize anyone about not caring about women, I'll remember how tokenism outweighs true action for folks like yourself. I'll probably be able to get elected as a Democrat if I keep that in mind.
I'm not attacking the source. The article is quite explicit in what it believes and what it wants (despite laying it on a bit thick).
I'm attacking you and your bizarre focus on one tiny angle of this argument which you have managed to polarize into peadophile rapists versus truptman, and your either with them or you.
Let me state for the record that I am happy for Planned Parenthood to promise anonymity (and keep that promise) to 13-year-old girls being abused by 22-year-old men, if that then encourages them to enter into the health care system and receive counselling and advice as well as abortions. I'm sure the 16-year-olds and their teenage boyfriends will appreciate this too.
So why don't you give this topic the care and attention it deserves or just drop it. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve with this second-hand shock-jock routine anyway.
I'm sad that you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You are a sick, sick man. If you think abortion clinics can counsel women on relationship issues then you should be a drug dealer since you must have the best sh*t for sale in town.
As for dropping it, you are welcome to do so. You've made your point, really no point, then attempted to distract from the point since you couldn't show why the clinics shouldn't report. Now you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You have a strange and twisted view of compassion. You call an abortion clinic giving a 13 year old an abortion and some condoms "entering the health care system."
Thanks for showing your agenda is devoid of any true compassion.
Hmm. Somehow I didn't realize that I was the one pushing for mandatory reporting, giving the health care worker no room to maneuver even if they know it will lead to suicide.
Quote:
I'm sad that you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You are a sick, sick man
This is the shock-jock routine he was talking about. It's interesting you do it since you know you would be laughed out of any serious offline discussion with people a little beyond the 5th graders you pick up your behavior from.
Hmm. Somehow I didn't realize that I was the one pushing for mandatory reporting, giving the health care worker no room to maneuver even if they know it will lead to suicide.
This is the shock-jock routine he was talking about. It's interesting you do it since you know you would be laughed out of any serious offline discussion with people a little beyond the 5th graders you pick up your behavior from.
Serious discussion... oh is that what I have with you? I gave that up when you started attacking the source, complaining about the thread, started making everything a choice between agree with giant, or "you're a liar or fool." (Which I am sure works so well in offline discussions as well.)
Likewise someone who is suicidal and considered a danger to themselves wouldn't be asked about reporting or not. They would be taken into care for a psych evaluation.
It is a lot of 'bullshit' from the anti-choice 'activists' who tried to undermine the work of Planned Parenthood.
To really answer the question: "Could medical provider 'breach patient confidentiality' if the patient is a minor? The aswer is "NO", they couldn't. Therefore, Planned Parenthood, being a medical service provider couldn't break 'patient confidentality' even if it involve a minor.
Quote:
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to the police?
No. Health care providers may not report crimes¡Xincluding rape and ¡§statutory rape¡¨¡Xcommitted against their patients to the police, with one exception: when the patient
sustained a gunshot or serious stab wound, such injury must be reported to the police, although the provider or facility should not report the circumstances surrounding how the injuries were incurred.24 Reporting without such a mandate would breach patient confidentiality and subject the provider to potential legal and professional sanctions. Thus, only the minor may decide whether or not to report the sexual assault to the police.
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to the police?
No. Health care providers may not report crimes-including rape and "statutory rape"-committed against their patients to the police, with one exception: when the patient sustained a gunshot or serious stab wound, such injury must be reported to the police, although the provider or facility should not report the circumstances surrounding how the injuries were incurred. [24] Reporting without such a mandate would breach patient confidentiality and subject the provider to potential legal and professional sanctions. Thus, only the minor may decide whether or not to report the sexual assault to the police. [25]
Sometimes, health care providers are required to disclose information relating to an assault if the police or district attorney makes a request by court order or subpoena. [26] One such circumstance requires that some providers disclose "evidence indicating that a patient who is under the age of sixteen years has been the victim of a crime." [27] This means that if the police or district attorney prosecuting the rape of a minor age 15 or younger subpoenas a rape kit, because it is evidence that the patient was the victim of a crime, the provider must turn it over. [28] Note, however, that this law cannot be invoked for minors aged sixteen or seventeen, or for any adults.
It is not just Planned Parenthood that couldn't report any rape but all 'medical provider' are bind by the same rule.
I will look for some more resources later today (It is 5 am here and I need to go back to sleep since I woke up so early) because your link claims to not even mandate reporting of rape. By that I mean real rape and not just nonconsent via age differences. (Statutory rape)
Here's something interesting about the problems with mandatory reporting:
Quote:
Mandatory reporting of statutory rape raises a number of troubling questions: What is the purpose of mandatory reporting, and is the agency receiving the statutory rape reports equipped to handle them? Does a provider have an ethical obligation to inform its teenage clients in advance that certain information, if revealed, must be reported to authorities? If a provider does not inform minors in advance of its obligation to report, does it violate minors' expectation of confidentiality? Conversely, if the provider does inform minors of the potential consequences of revealing certain information, will young women refuse to discuss important health issues or other concerns?
According to Howard Davidson, director of the American Bar Association's (ABA) Center on Children and the Law, mandatory reporting was initially adopted by most states as a way to identify cases of child abuse or neglect by a parent or caretaker within the home. Furthermore, he says, while mandatory reporting can be triggered by other circumstances, the child welfare agency that receives these reports was established to protect children solely from intrafamilial abuse and neglect. Consequently, Davidson points out, the agency generally has no system for responding to reports of statutory rape perpetrated by nonfamily members.
"Many well-intentioned people from a variety of arenas?have a warm, fuzzy notion that the agency on the end of the phone will do something good for the young person [whom the reporter] wants to protect," observes Abigail English of the National Center for Youth Law. "They have no concept of what the process entails."
That process, she and other legal experts say, varies from state to state and even from county to county, reflecting the broad discretion prosecutors have in deciding how to handle reports of statutory rape. Often, a statutory rape report is simply placed in a file without any action taken; in other cases, the prosecutor may conduct a preliminary investigation, contacting the minor's parents and her sexual partner in the process, but take no further action; and in some instances, the man will be charged with a crime.
Meanwhile, "the victim may go through hell when a case is reported," contends Michelle Oberman, a law professor at DePaul University who has studied the implications of enforcing statutory rape laws. "Her confidentiality is breached, and the most private aspects of her life become public record. And for what end? Are we really going to lock up all these men? She is victimized all over again."
Lack of action largely reflects the fact that child welfare agencies are overloaded and have to prioritize the cases they pursue, according to legal experts. Children, especially those who are very young and have been physically abused, are at the top of the list. Adolescents are a much lower priority, unless they are victims of intrafamilial sexual abuse.
"Mandatory reporting of child and youth maltreatment?involves significant government intrusions into the lives of families," notes the ABA's Davidson. "There is a significant risk that simply requiring professionals to report [statutory rape] to authorities, without proper training and necessary infrastructure, could do more harm than good," he warns, such as "deterring young people from getting medical care, and making it more difficult to identify fathers and collect child support payments."
These are major concerns of adolescent service providers. Reproductive health care providers, for example, fear that pregnant and sexually active teenagers will not seek prenatal care, contraceptive services or STD screening, and that they will be unwilling to discuss personal problems if they think the provider will report their partner to authorities.
These concerns are by no means limited to family planning providers, however. Last fall in Massachusetts, the Alliance for Young Families, a consortium of social workers, child care agencies, health care providers and other professionals who work with pregnant and parenting teens, protested the practice by local welfare offices of recording information on the circumstances of the teen's pregnancy, including the age of her partner, on a "Minor Teen Parent Rape Form" when a minor applied for public assistance.
The Alliance warned that while "on the surface, enforcement of our state's statutory rape law seems good for the protection of adolescents, a closer examination of the implications reveals a multitude of unintended, negative consequences that could have disastrous effects on young families." It cited reports of teen mothers opting not to seek state services to which they were entitled for fear the welfare agency would take their child away. The young women were also reported to be afraid that their partner would be sent to jail, and some feared possible domestic violence if they cooperated with authorities. "This fear," the Alliance pointed out, "pushes teens underground, away from their support services at a time when they may need them the most."
Mandatory reporting also poses another dilemma for service providers: Should they avoid asking questions that might trigger the reporting requirement, in order to protect minors' confidentiality, even if the answers to those questions may be crucial to providing high quality services, or should they ask the questions and make a report if required, even if in doing so they jeopardize their future relationship with young people?
Many providers feel they have an ethical responsibility to forewarn teenage clients that if they divulge the age of their sexual partner, the provider may have to report the man to the authorities. But, in warning a minor, experts say, the provider may deprive a young woman of a safe environment in which to discuss problems and concerns. Ultimately, concludes the ABA's Davidson, this may be a disservice to minors. "If you take actions that encourage a person not to talk, there is a strong risk they may not talk about more serious crimes as well."
Did you really read the Q & A or do you just read what you 'want' to read?
Quote:
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to a child protective services agency?
Generally, no. Confidentiality means that a provider also may not report the crime or treatment to outside agencies, unless otherwise required by law. [30] However, when the provider [31] has reasonable cause [32] to believe that a minor patient is abused [33] or neglected, [34] the provider must report this suspicion to the State Central Register of Child Abuse and Maltreatment. [35] New York law limits child abuse and neglect to those offenses committed by a parent or other person responsible for a child's care, or where the caregiver allowed [36] abuse or neglect to occur. Thus, a report would be proper where the minor was sexually abused by a parent or legal guardian, or where a parent or legal guardian should have known about the abuse and did not take steps to prevent or stop it. No report should be made of minors who engage in consensual sex with a non-relative, [37] or who are raped by a peer or by a stranger, unless the rape was the result of parental or guardian abuse or neglect.
Why would a 'minor' be 'violated' first by a rapist, then by the 'medical professional' that supposed to help her? I do consider 'patient confidentality' a must for minor.
I guess only those who are 'closed to heartless' will impose on the medical professionals to report a rape and violate the minor right (again). It is not easy to go through a 'rape trial', and a child should be able to 'seek' medical assistant without the 'fear' that her right is going to be violated.
I do know that anti-choice don't see the 'child' or anyone but will continue their 'continue attack on PP'. That is what expected on the anti-choice group who really don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.
But other reasonable people who respect the right of minors to seek medical assistant and not have the medical professionals to preach 'patient confidentality' in the process really didn't find any thing wrong in this practice of not disclosing medical information without the patient consent.
The question is, why target on PP when most other medical providers would do that same thing?
I think it's really sad that some people feel the need to promote their ideology by exposing others to harm, especially when it's under the guise of helping people in trouble.
Comments
Originally posted by trumptman
You have to attack the source since no one in their right mind would call that compassion.
I'm not attacking the source. The article is quite explicit in what it believes and what it wants (despite laying it on a bit thick).
I'm attacking you and your bizarre focus on one tiny angle of this argument which you have managed to polarize into peadophile rapists versus truptman, and your either with them or you.
Let me state for the record that I am happy for Planned Parenthood to promise anonymity (and keep that promise) to 13-year-old girls being abused by 22-year-old men, if that then encourages them to enter into the health care system and receive counselling and advice as well as abortions. I'm sure the 16-year-olds and their teenage boyfriends will appreciate this too.
So why don't you give this topic the care and attention it deserves or just drop it. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve with this second-hand shock-jock routine anyway.
Originally posted by giant
I put this in the top 10 dumbest insults here on AO. It's wild that you manage to butcher such a simple insult you picked up from the people you spend the most time with: 10 year olds.
I can't figure out whether you are just totally in denial or if you just pretend you are to entertain yourself.
Silly rabbit. Don't you know you are the entertainment? Watching your rabid semi-coherent replies scroll across the screen is the closest thing to comic relief I have seen.
Thanks for showing your agenda is devoid of any true compassion. Instead it is just buzzwords, wedge issues, interest groups and selling out others to get for yourself.
The next time someone tries to chastize anyone about not caring about women, I'll remember how tokenism outweighs true action for folks like yourself. I'll probably be able to get elected as a Democrat if I keep that in mind.
Nick
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
I'm not attacking the source. The article is quite explicit in what it believes and what it wants (despite laying it on a bit thick).
I'm attacking you and your bizarre focus on one tiny angle of this argument which you have managed to polarize into peadophile rapists versus truptman, and your either with them or you.
Let me state for the record that I am happy for Planned Parenthood to promise anonymity (and keep that promise) to 13-year-old girls being abused by 22-year-old men, if that then encourages them to enter into the health care system and receive counselling and advice as well as abortions. I'm sure the 16-year-olds and their teenage boyfriends will appreciate this too.
So why don't you give this topic the care and attention it deserves or just drop it. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve with this second-hand shock-jock routine anyway.
I'm sad that you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You are a sick, sick man. If you think abortion clinics can counsel women on relationship issues then you should be a drug dealer since you must have the best sh*t for sale in town.
As for dropping it, you are welcome to do so. You've made your point, really no point, then attempted to distract from the point since you couldn't show why the clinics shouldn't report. Now you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You have a strange and twisted view of compassion. You call an abortion clinic giving a 13 year old an abortion and some condoms "entering the health care system."
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Thanks for showing your agenda is devoid of any true compassion.
Hmm. Somehow I didn't realize that I was the one pushing for mandatory reporting, giving the health care worker no room to maneuver even if they know it will lead to suicide.
I'm sad that you enjoy seeing 13 year olds abused. You are a sick, sick man
This is the shock-jock routine he was talking about. It's interesting you do it since you know you would be laughed out of any serious offline discussion with people a little beyond the 5th graders you pick up your behavior from.
Originally posted by giant
Hmm. Somehow I didn't realize that I was the one pushing for mandatory reporting, giving the health care worker no room to maneuver even if they know it will lead to suicide.
This is the shock-jock routine he was talking about. It's interesting you do it since you know you would be laughed out of any serious offline discussion with people a little beyond the 5th graders you pick up your behavior from.
Serious discussion... oh is that what I have with you? I gave that up when you started attacking the source, complaining about the thread, started making everything a choice between agree with giant, or "you're a liar or fool." (Which I am sure works so well in offline discussions as well.)
Likewise someone who is suicidal and considered a danger to themselves wouldn't be asked about reporting or not. They would be taken into care for a psych evaluation.
Nick
If he do not come back on tracks, it will be closed.
To really answer the question: "Could medical provider 'breach patient confidentiality' if the patient is a minor? The aswer is "NO", they couldn't. Therefore, Planned Parenthood, being a medical service provider couldn't break 'patient confidentality' even if it involve a minor.
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to the police?
No. Health care providers may not report crimes¡Xincluding rape and ¡§statutory rape¡¨¡Xcommitted against their patients to the police, with one exception: when the patient
sustained a gunshot or serious stab wound, such injury must be reported to the police, although the provider or facility should not report the circumstances surrounding how the injuries were incurred.24 Reporting without such a mandate would breach patient confidentiality and subject the provider to potential legal and professional sanctions. Thus, only the minor may decide whether or not to report the sexual assault to the police.
Source: <a href=http://www.nyclu.org/minorsrapetmntqanda.pdf>New York Civil Liberties Union</a>
Link:http://www.nycagainstrape.org/faq_question_61.html
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to the police?
No. Health care providers may not report crimes-including rape and "statutory rape"-committed against their patients to the police, with one exception: when the patient sustained a gunshot or serious stab wound, such injury must be reported to the police, although the provider or facility should not report the circumstances surrounding how the injuries were incurred. [24] Reporting without such a mandate would breach patient confidentiality and subject the provider to potential legal and professional sanctions. Thus, only the minor may decide whether or not to report the sexual assault to the police. [25]
Sometimes, health care providers are required to disclose information relating to an assault if the police or district attorney makes a request by court order or subpoena. [26] One such circumstance requires that some providers disclose "evidence indicating that a patient who is under the age of sixteen years has been the victim of a crime." [27] This means that if the police or district attorney prosecuting the rape of a minor age 15 or younger subpoenas a rape kit, because it is evidence that the patient was the victim of a crime, the provider must turn it over. [28] Note, however, that this law cannot be invoked for minors aged sixteen or seventeen, or for any adults.
It is not just Planned Parenthood that couldn't report any rape but all 'medical provider' are bind by the same rule.
Originally posted by Sundae
This is from New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault.
Link:http://www.nycagainstrape.org/faq_question_61.html
It is not just Planned Parenthood that couldn't report any rape but all 'medical provider' are bind by the same rule.
You should go down two more questions...
http://www.nycagainstrape.org/faq_question_63.html
I will look for some more resources later today (It is 5 am here and I need to go back to sleep since I woke up so early) because your link claims to not even mandate reporting of rape. By that I mean real rape and not just nonconsent via age differences. (Statutory rape)
Nick
Mandatory reporting of statutory rape raises a number of troubling questions: What is the purpose of mandatory reporting, and is the agency receiving the statutory rape reports equipped to handle them? Does a provider have an ethical obligation to inform its teenage clients in advance that certain information, if revealed, must be reported to authorities? If a provider does not inform minors in advance of its obligation to report, does it violate minors' expectation of confidentiality? Conversely, if the provider does inform minors of the potential consequences of revealing certain information, will young women refuse to discuss important health issues or other concerns?
According to Howard Davidson, director of the American Bar Association's (ABA) Center on Children and the Law, mandatory reporting was initially adopted by most states as a way to identify cases of child abuse or neglect by a parent or caretaker within the home. Furthermore, he says, while mandatory reporting can be triggered by other circumstances, the child welfare agency that receives these reports was established to protect children solely from intrafamilial abuse and neglect. Consequently, Davidson points out, the agency generally has no system for responding to reports of statutory rape perpetrated by nonfamily members.
"Many well-intentioned people from a variety of arenas?have a warm, fuzzy notion that the agency on the end of the phone will do something good for the young person [whom the reporter] wants to protect," observes Abigail English of the National Center for Youth Law. "They have no concept of what the process entails."
That process, she and other legal experts say, varies from state to state and even from county to county, reflecting the broad discretion prosecutors have in deciding how to handle reports of statutory rape. Often, a statutory rape report is simply placed in a file without any action taken; in other cases, the prosecutor may conduct a preliminary investigation, contacting the minor's parents and her sexual partner in the process, but take no further action; and in some instances, the man will be charged with a crime.
Meanwhile, "the victim may go through hell when a case is reported," contends Michelle Oberman, a law professor at DePaul University who has studied the implications of enforcing statutory rape laws. "Her confidentiality is breached, and the most private aspects of her life become public record. And for what end? Are we really going to lock up all these men? She is victimized all over again."
Lack of action largely reflects the fact that child welfare agencies are overloaded and have to prioritize the cases they pursue, according to legal experts. Children, especially those who are very young and have been physically abused, are at the top of the list. Adolescents are a much lower priority, unless they are victims of intrafamilial sexual abuse.
"Mandatory reporting of child and youth maltreatment?involves significant government intrusions into the lives of families," notes the ABA's Davidson. "There is a significant risk that simply requiring professionals to report [statutory rape] to authorities, without proper training and necessary infrastructure, could do more harm than good," he warns, such as "deterring young people from getting medical care, and making it more difficult to identify fathers and collect child support payments."
These are major concerns of adolescent service providers. Reproductive health care providers, for example, fear that pregnant and sexually active teenagers will not seek prenatal care, contraceptive services or STD screening, and that they will be unwilling to discuss personal problems if they think the provider will report their partner to authorities.
These concerns are by no means limited to family planning providers, however. Last fall in Massachusetts, the Alliance for Young Families, a consortium of social workers, child care agencies, health care providers and other professionals who work with pregnant and parenting teens, protested the practice by local welfare offices of recording information on the circumstances of the teen's pregnancy, including the age of her partner, on a "Minor Teen Parent Rape Form" when a minor applied for public assistance.
The Alliance warned that while "on the surface, enforcement of our state's statutory rape law seems good for the protection of adolescents, a closer examination of the implications reveals a multitude of unintended, negative consequences that could have disastrous effects on young families." It cited reports of teen mothers opting not to seek state services to which they were entitled for fear the welfare agency would take their child away. The young women were also reported to be afraid that their partner would be sent to jail, and some feared possible domestic violence if they cooperated with authorities. "This fear," the Alliance pointed out, "pushes teens underground, away from their support services at a time when they may need them the most."
Mandatory reporting also poses another dilemma for service providers: Should they avoid asking questions that might trigger the reporting requirement, in order to protect minors' confidentiality, even if the answers to those questions may be crucial to providing high quality services, or should they ask the questions and make a report if required, even if in doing so they jeopardize their future relationship with young people?
Many providers feel they have an ethical responsibility to forewarn teenage clients that if they divulge the age of their sexual partner, the provider may have to report the man to the authorities. But, in warning a minor, experts say, the provider may deprive a young woman of a safe environment in which to discuss problems and concerns. Ultimately, concludes the ABA's Davidson, this may be a disservice to minors. "If you take actions that encourage a person not to talk, there is a strong risk they may not talk about more serious crimes as well."
NADA.
http://www.thenation.com/edcut/index.mhtml?bid=7
Did you really read the Q & A or do you just read what you 'want' to read?
Must a hospital or health care provider report the rape or rape crisis treatment of a minor to a child protective services agency?
Generally, no. Confidentiality means that a provider also may not report the crime or treatment to outside agencies, unless otherwise required by law. [30] However, when the provider [31] has reasonable cause [32] to believe that a minor patient is abused [33] or neglected, [34] the provider must report this suspicion to the State Central Register of Child Abuse and Maltreatment. [35] New York law limits child abuse and neglect to those offenses committed by a parent or other person responsible for a child's care, or where the caregiver allowed [36] abuse or neglect to occur. Thus, a report would be proper where the minor was sexually abused by a parent or legal guardian, or where a parent or legal guardian should have known about the abuse and did not take steps to prevent or stop it. No report should be made of minors who engage in consensual sex with a non-relative, [37] or who are raped by a peer or by a stranger, unless the rape was the result of parental or guardian abuse or neglect.
Why would a 'minor' be 'violated' first by a rapist, then by the 'medical professional' that supposed to help her? I do consider 'patient confidentality' a must for minor.
I guess only those who are 'closed to heartless' will impose on the medical professionals to report a rape and violate the minor right (again). It is not easy to go through a 'rape trial', and a child should be able to 'seek' medical assistant without the 'fear' that her right is going to be violated.
I do know that anti-choice don't see the 'child' or anyone but will continue their 'continue attack on PP'. That is what expected on the anti-choice group who really don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.
But other reasonable people who respect the right of minors to seek medical assistant and not have the medical professionals to preach 'patient confidentality' in the process really didn't find any thing wrong in this practice of not disclosing medical information without the patient consent.
The question is, why target on PP when most other medical providers would do that same thing?