1. Buy Quark. Indesign and Photoshop are the only apps I worry about. Illustrator doesn't command that much power over Freehand.
2. Acquire code from Photoshop competitors. The Developers from TIFFany work for Apple now. Live Picture code is owned by Roxio. Macromedia has Xres code.
3. Apple could tie in long document support in a Pro version of whatever Word Processing program they have to replace Framemaker
Right now Adobe can get away with these sucker punches but if Apple can double it's financial strength in the next half decade then programs from Adobe can be replaced with newer more efficient Apple versions. Apple can do it quicker and cheaper with a decent framework of code. Adobe cannot continue to praise Apple one day then denigrate them the next.
I'd love to see Apple open up the graphics arena by cutting Adobe out and encouraging some competition through free licensing of plugins and generous API's to assist the current and future developers on getting up to speed quickly.
Adobe has joined the PC camp a long time ago and has been giving the finger to Mac users for a while now. No matter what they claim. Adobe has been assimilated into the PC world. Just look at their latest software, can you say bloat-ware?
1. Buy Quark. Indesign and Photoshop are the only apps I worry about. Illustrator doesn't command that much power over Freehand.
2. Acquire code from Photoshop competitors. The Developers from TIFFany work for Apple now. Live Picture code is owned by Roxio. Macromedia has Xres code.
3. Apple could tie in long document support in a Pro version of whatever Word Processing program they have to replace Framemaker
Right now Adobe can get away with these sucker punches but if Apple can double it's financial strength in the next half decade then programs from Adobe can be replaced with newer more efficient Apple versions. Apple can do it quicker and cheaper with a decent framework of code. Adobe cannot continue to praise Apple one day then denigrate them the next.
I'd love to see Apple open up the graphics arena by cutting Adobe out and encouraging some competition through free licensing of plugins and generous API's to assist the current and future developers on getting up to speed quickly.
While Adobe certainly needs the revenue, they know that Mac users have no real alternative.
Freehand? CorelDraw? PhotoPaint? I doubt it.
This guy can bash our platform till he's blue in the face and Mac users will still buy their products.
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
Here's the list in order to usefulness:
Electric Image Universe - for content creation, it is god.
This is not really my area of interest. But I seem to recall Apple blaming their speed problems on Adobe's code for relative sluggishness on the Mac platform. Apple tends to blame everyone else for their problems. Could this not have caused some of the bad blood that exists now? I don't know who started it, but Apple has slung its fair share of mud.
This is not really my area of interest. But I seem to recall Apple blaming their speed problems on Adobe's code for relative sluggishness on the Mac platform. Apple tends to blame everyone else for their problems. Could this not have caused some of the bad blood that exists now? I don't know who started it, but Apple has slung its fair share of mud.
It is Adobe's fault that many of their apps suck at using two processors.
Funny that Photoshop used to be the ONLY application that took advantage of the dual-604s in some of the pre-G3 PowerMacs. I wonder if MS is paying them money under the table to kill SMP support and badmouth Macs for being slow.
Sorry to disagree with you guys (you're being hotheads) BUT:
The best strategy for Apple is to MAKE NICE with Adobe and let Ted "Stupid MoFo" Alspach's comments drift out to sea. Apple definitely does NOT need to create their own Photoshop app. Photoshop is the Zillion Pound Gorilla that drives the graphics world and you CAN'T FIGHT that tide. Forget about "going it alone".
Adobe needs to respond to Ted "I've Got Pudding For Brains" Alsplatt's commentary though. If the comment is really in that book (I bet it is) then it's asinine and potentially a litigious. Is that slander or misrepresentation of the truth? I'd say so.
Let's see how Apple responds. I hope that it's diplomatic yet firm.
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
Here's the list in order to usefulness:
Electric Image Universe - for content creation, it is god.
FormZ - for the few things EI isn't geared for.
Freehand: For 2D patterning, etc.
Quark: Still kicks InDesign in the ass.
Photoshop: because I don't know better.
Have you used Paint Shop Pro 8? If so, what specific features does it lack, or why do you prefer photoshop? It's interface isn't as pretty as adobe's, but I find it very feature-rich.
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
You're missing the point. It's not an issue of PC alternatives. It's the fact that Adobe (like it or not) is the industry standard for graphics.
While you can use lesser known products, you might get a funny look from your printer when you ask if he can open up a PaintShop Pro file.
Someone said it best that you want to play nice with Adobe (and all developers for that matter). You want more developers on your platform...not less.
Apple really needs to grow marketshare in order to at least have a bit more clout.
That said, Adobe also knows that probably 90% of all design firms and ad agencies are on Macs and aren't about to change anytime soon. Someone at Adobe head office should fire this guy's a**.
After the bitch slapping Apple gave Adobe by giving FCE away free if you trashed your copy of Premier it's hardly surprising.
As Apple have generally made Adobe redundent in the prosumer digital editing Apple market, by writing anti Apple propaganda Adobe are just trying to protect their market share, albeit by telling lies and spouting propaganda.
Well if it works for politicians.....
I'm a bit worried about the future of Photoshop though. Apple have no viable alternative.
Sorry to disagree with you guys (you're being hotheads) BUT:
The best strategy for Apple is to MAKE NICE with Adobe and let Ted "Stupid MoFo" Alspach's comments drift out to sea. Apple definitely does NOT need to create their own Photoshop app. Photoshop is the Zillion Pound Gorilla that drives the graphics world and you CAN'T FIGHT that tide. Forget about "going it alone".
<snip>
What are
Let's see how Apple responds. I hope that it's diplomatic yet firm. YOU guys going to write to Adobe?
Apple does need to create a Graphics App.
1. Graphics apps are indespensible for Digital Video. Adobe will always have an advantage with the combo of PS and Premiere.
2. Legitimacy- Adobe can make claims that Macs are sluggish because Apple nor anyone else has a graphics app that's kicking PS's butt.
3. The Graphics Market is dead and in need of new players with new blood. The Graphics revolution died years back with the killing of Mtropolis and Live Picture amongst others. A large company like Apple can stir the pot effectively without going bankrupt.
4. Software is going to be key for Apple. If I can buy an Adobe Collection bundle for PC then what advantage do I have with buying a Mac?
Survival and growth for Apple means getting their own Independence from Adobe and Microsloth.
3. The Graphics Market is dead and in need of new players with new blood. The Graphics revolution died years back with the killing of Mtropolis and Live Picture amongst others. A large company like Apple can stir the pot effectively without going bankrupt.
in this, i agree. i mean, how many people kicked and yelled that this latest iteration of photoshop wasn't a full version upgrade, but more like 7.5? it's because, when you're king of the roost, you don't have to really kill yourself to make the app dramatically better... just enough to sell more.
i know of another northwest company that has lived by that sword for a long time now.
p.s. i also find it ironic that adobe says illustrator and photoshop run sluggishly on apple hardware... as if the application girth has NOTHING to do with that fact. sigh.
(edit; i'm just going to edit out my analogy between the apple-vs.-microsoft and matrix idea. it's really careening down a marginally related tangent.)
If I can buy an Adobe Collection bundle for PC then what advantage do I have with buying a Mac?
Adobe's not going to abandon the Mac market anytime soon. There is an established base of millions in the design/advertising/publishing field who is not going to switch to PC's either.
After the bitch slapping Apple gave Adobe by giving FCE away free if you trashed your copy of Premier it's hardly surprising.
how quickly we forget... apple gave away indesign for free with every mac last fall/winter after rebate. tell me adobe doesn't owe them HUGE for giving them that foothold against quark's establishment.
This is not really my area of interest. But I seem to recall Apple blaming their speed problems on Adobe's code for relative sluggishness on the Mac platform. Apple tends to blame everyone else for their problems. Could this not have caused some of the bad blood that exists now? I don't know who started it, but Apple has slung its fair share of mud.
well, i have to think that adobe also owes apple something for using photoshop as THE STANDARD during every friggin' macworld expo and seybold keynote from 1997-2002 to show speed comparisons. in fact, it got to be so obiligatory, you just tuned to another channel whenever steve or phil would start waxing poetic about a series of 75 photoshop actions running 1278% faster on high-end macs versus pc's.
I guess PC's are better than Macs at somthings, I.E.:
1. User Frustration
2. Lost Data while working in Adobe programs (happened to my boss recently)
3. Upgradeability- you "get" to upgrade every two years, whether you wanted to or not.
4. Yep, definately zippy- that much quicker to do all of the above.
5. Eating up excessive electricity
6. Hearing damage from loud fans
7. Cruddy Operating system with cruddy DRM. (welcome to nazi germany everyone, sit down, shut up and open your personal information and wallets.)
8. Tech support that is last to all. (even when you pay for it, the techs are rude and impatient, this is their job to help you, is it not?)
9. Major security holes that MS does not want to fix, nor even appear to care about fixing.
10. Bill Gates himself says that sloppy coding is ok, and does not make your software any more of a security risk.
11. If you really need anymore reasons of what a PC can do better, you really don't derserve a Mac, and should go straight away to Dell, or the like to get yourself a new shiney headache. (You can send your Mac to me, or any other person such as a student, etc.)
That nonsense was obviouly written by someone who didn't drop by "future Hardware" even once in the last year.
CV
Exactly how does the G5 change anything?
remember how the PPC was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
remember when the G4 with its Velocity Engine was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
remember when OSX was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
now apparently the G5 is gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps are rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
The fact is that apple lost control of its crown jewels (macOS) when it gave control to 3rd party developers. Now it doesn't matter what apple does with hardware or software, the 3rd party developers just aaren't rewriting their code to take advantage. Since apple has declined to tackle the market share issue these same developers see less and less incentive to even try. Oh, did I mention that since OSX Macromedia's software sux on Mac and seems to be distancing itself ever further from the platform also?
Comments
1. Buy Quark. Indesign and Photoshop are the only apps I worry about. Illustrator doesn't command that much power over Freehand.
2. Acquire code from Photoshop competitors. The Developers from TIFFany work for Apple now. Live Picture code is owned by Roxio. Macromedia has Xres code.
3. Apple could tie in long document support in a Pro version of whatever Word Processing program they have to replace Framemaker
Right now Adobe can get away with these sucker punches but if Apple can double it's financial strength in the next half decade then programs from Adobe can be replaced with newer more efficient Apple versions. Apple can do it quicker and cheaper with a decent framework of code. Adobe cannot continue to praise Apple one day then denigrate them the next.
I'd love to see Apple open up the graphics arena by cutting Adobe out and encouraging some competition through free licensing of plugins and generous API's to assist the current and future developers on getting up to speed quickly.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Here's what Apple can do.
1. Buy Quark. Indesign and Photoshop are the only apps I worry about. Illustrator doesn't command that much power over Freehand.
2. Acquire code from Photoshop competitors. The Developers from TIFFany work for Apple now. Live Picture code is owned by Roxio. Macromedia has Xres code.
3. Apple could tie in long document support in a Pro version of whatever Word Processing program they have to replace Framemaker
Right now Adobe can get away with these sucker punches but if Apple can double it's financial strength in the next half decade then programs from Adobe can be replaced with newer more efficient Apple versions. Apple can do it quicker and cheaper with a decent framework of code. Adobe cannot continue to praise Apple one day then denigrate them the next.
I'd love to see Apple open up the graphics arena by cutting Adobe out and encouraging some competition through free licensing of plugins and generous API's to assist the current and future developers on getting up to speed quickly.
i've already decided to hate Quark
Originally posted by satchmo
While Adobe certainly needs the revenue, they know that Mac users have no real alternative.
Freehand? CorelDraw? PhotoPaint? I doubt it.
This guy can bash our platform till he's blue in the face and Mac users will still buy their products.
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
Here's the list in order to usefulness:
Electric Image Universe - for content creation, it is god.
FormZ - for the few things EI isn't geared for.
Freehand: For 2D patterning, etc.
Quark: Still kicks InDesign in the ass.
Photoshop: because I don't know better.
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
This is not really my area of interest. But I seem to recall Apple blaming their speed problems on Adobe's code for relative sluggishness on the Mac platform. Apple tends to blame everyone else for their problems. Could this not have caused some of the bad blood that exists now? I don't know who started it, but Apple has slung its fair share of mud.
It is Adobe's fault that many of their apps suck at using two processors.
That way Adobe will have a nice Mac product. It'd sell well because it'd be great. And, being cocoa, it'd be hell to port to PC!
Amorya
The best strategy for Apple is to MAKE NICE with Adobe and let Ted "Stupid MoFo" Alspach's comments drift out to sea. Apple definitely does NOT need to create their own Photoshop app. Photoshop is the Zillion Pound Gorilla that drives the graphics world and you CAN'T FIGHT that tide. Forget about "going it alone".
Adobe needs to respond to Ted "I've Got Pudding For Brains" Alsplatt's commentary though. If the comment is really in that book (I bet it is) then it's asinine and potentially a litigious. Is that slander or misrepresentation of the truth? I'd say so.
Let's see how Apple responds. I hope that it's diplomatic yet firm.
What are YOU guys going to write to Adobe?
Originally posted by Splinemodel
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
Here's the list in order to usefulness:
Electric Image Universe - for content creation, it is god.
FormZ - for the few things EI isn't geared for.
Freehand: For 2D patterning, etc.
Quark: Still kicks InDesign in the ass.
Photoshop: because I don't know better.
Have you used Paint Shop Pro 8? If so, what specific features does it lack, or why do you prefer photoshop? It's interface isn't as pretty as adobe's, but I find it very feature-rich.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
And what PC alternatives are there? Paint Shop Pro? Don't make me puke. I do a LOT of graphics and I only use one Adobe program: Photoshop. And I guess everyone uses it because nobody has even tried to come out with something better. Honestly, if some dude came out with photoshop 4 in a modernized package for 99 bucks, I'd never use Adobe again.
You're missing the point. It's not an issue of PC alternatives. It's the fact that Adobe (like it or not) is the industry standard for graphics.
While you can use lesser known products, you might get a funny look from your printer when you ask if he can open up a PaintShop Pro file.
Someone said it best that you want to play nice with Adobe (and all developers for that matter). You want more developers on your platform...not less.
Apple really needs to grow marketshare in order to at least have a bit more clout.
That said, Adobe also knows that probably 90% of all design firms and ad agencies are on Macs and aren't about to change anytime soon. Someone at Adobe head office should fire this guy's a**.
As Apple have generally made Adobe redundent in the prosumer digital editing Apple market, by writing anti Apple propaganda Adobe are just trying to protect their market share, albeit by telling lies and spouting propaganda.
Well if it works for politicians.....
I'm a bit worried about the future of Photoshop though. Apple have no viable alternative.
Originally posted by drewprops
Sorry to disagree with you guys (you're being hotheads) BUT:
The best strategy for Apple is to MAKE NICE with Adobe and let Ted "Stupid MoFo" Alspach's comments drift out to sea. Apple definitely does NOT need to create their own Photoshop app. Photoshop is the Zillion Pound Gorilla that drives the graphics world and you CAN'T FIGHT that tide. Forget about "going it alone".
<snip>
What are
Let's see how Apple responds. I hope that it's diplomatic yet firm. YOU guys going to write to Adobe?
Apple does need to create a Graphics App.
1. Graphics apps are indespensible for Digital Video. Adobe will always have an advantage with the combo of PS and Premiere.
2. Legitimacy- Adobe can make claims that Macs are sluggish because Apple nor anyone else has a graphics app that's kicking PS's butt.
3. The Graphics Market is dead and in need of new players with new blood. The Graphics revolution died years back with the killing of Mtropolis and Live Picture amongst others. A large company like Apple can stir the pot effectively without going bankrupt.
4. Software is going to be key for Apple. If I can buy an Adobe Collection bundle for PC then what advantage do I have with buying a Mac?
Survival and growth for Apple means getting their own Independence from Adobe and Microsloth.
Originally posted by hmurchison
3. The Graphics Market is dead and in need of new players with new blood. The Graphics revolution died years back with the killing of Mtropolis and Live Picture amongst others. A large company like Apple can stir the pot effectively without going bankrupt.
in this, i agree. i mean, how many people kicked and yelled that this latest iteration of photoshop wasn't a full version upgrade, but more like 7.5? it's because, when you're king of the roost, you don't have to really kill yourself to make the app dramatically better... just enough to sell more.
i know of another northwest company that has lived by that sword for a long time now.
p.s. i also find it ironic that adobe says illustrator and photoshop run sluggishly on apple hardware... as if the application girth has NOTHING to do with that fact. sigh.
(edit; i'm just going to edit out my analogy between the apple-vs.-microsoft and matrix idea. it's really careening down a marginally related tangent.)
Originally posted by hmurchison
If I can buy an Adobe Collection bundle for PC then what advantage do I have with buying a Mac?
Adobe's not going to abandon the Mac market anytime soon. There is an established base of millions in the design/advertising/publishing field who is not going to switch to PC's either.
Originally posted by womblingfree
After the bitch slapping Apple gave Adobe by giving FCE away free if you trashed your copy of Premier it's hardly surprising.
how quickly we forget... apple gave away indesign for free with every mac last fall/winter after rebate. tell me adobe doesn't owe them HUGE for giving them that foothold against quark's establishment.
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
This is not really my area of interest. But I seem to recall Apple blaming their speed problems on Adobe's code for relative sluggishness on the Mac platform. Apple tends to blame everyone else for their problems. Could this not have caused some of the bad blood that exists now? I don't know who started it, but Apple has slung its fair share of mud.
well, i have to think that adobe also owes apple something for using photoshop as THE STANDARD during every friggin' macworld expo and seybold keynote from 1997-2002 to show speed comparisons. in fact, it got to be so obiligatory, you just tuned to another channel whenever steve or phil would start waxing poetic about a series of 75 photoshop actions running 1278% faster on high-end macs versus pc's.
1. User Frustration
2. Lost Data while working in Adobe programs (happened to my boss recently)
3. Upgradeability- you "get" to upgrade every two years, whether you wanted to or not.
4. Yep, definately zippy- that much quicker to do all of the above.
5. Eating up excessive electricity
6. Hearing damage from loud fans
7. Cruddy Operating system with cruddy DRM. (welcome to nazi germany everyone, sit down, shut up and open your personal information and wallets.)
8. Tech support that is last to all. (even when you pay for it, the techs are rude and impatient, this is their job to help you, is it not?)
9. Major security holes that MS does not want to fix, nor even appear to care about fixing.
10. Bill Gates himself says that sloppy coding is ok, and does not make your software any more of a security risk.
11. If you really need anymore reasons of what a PC can do better, you really don't derserve a Mac, and should go straight away to Dell, or the like to get yourself a new shiney headache. (You can send your Mac to me, or any other person such as a student, etc.)
Just my 2 cents of B.S.
~tommy
Originally posted by chris v
Zero percent. G5 changes everything.
That nonsense was obviouly written by someone who didn't drop by "future Hardware" even once in the last year.
CV
Exactly how does the G5 change anything?
remember how the PPC was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
remember when the G4 with its Velocity Engine was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
remember when OSX was gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps were rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
now apparently the G5 is gonna give us incredible performance over intel (just as soon as apps are rewritten to take advantage of its "amazing" power)
The fact is that apple lost control of its crown jewels (macOS) when it gave control to 3rd party developers. Now it doesn't matter what apple does with hardware or software, the 3rd party developers just aaren't rewriting their code to take advantage. Since apple has declined to tackle the market share issue these same developers see less and less incentive to even try. Oh, did I mention that since OSX Macromedia's software sux on Mac and seems to be distancing itself ever further from the platform also?