yes... but contrary to popular belief iTunes is the trojan horse... not the iPod...
Actually, I think Quicktime is the trojan horse. Now, Apple has their media foundation on many of the windows boxes being sold today. They will repass REAL and make inroads on Windows Media as well.
When people see how well media works on Quicktime in comparison to Windows Media, they will prefer the former.
Additionally, it helps to promote and make Mac the media creation tool. If media outlets prefer to create in Quicktime, but, stick with Windows Media due to default installations, this will give them second thoughts now that the #1 or #2 (depending on when and how reported) PC maker is spreading Quicktime like fire.
And, oh by the way, Apple gets to make money on all of this by pushing iPods with it (as well as more songs through iTMS). Right now, iTMS is a loss-leader, but, with increasing quantities, it could become a profit center easily.
Couldn't agree more. One thing, in iTunes 4 the default encoder is AAC 128. Doesn't this strike people as Microsoftian? How is this any different than MS making WMA the default encoder?
It's not Microsoftian at all.
MP3 is the audio layer for MPEG-2. AAC is the audio layer for MPEG-4. Apple neither owns nor controls either. Furthermore, the AAC encoding that iTunes uses does not use FairPlay, Apple's DRM, so iTunes-ripped songs can be copied and burned as often as you please (as before, copyright law only kicks in depending on what you do with those copies), and they're playable on any platform that supports MPEG-4 - including platforms where Apple has no presence at all, like smart phones. You don't need iTunes, or QuickTime, or any Apple technology to support AAC.
WMA is not an industry standard. It's owned and controlled entirely by Microsoft. That's the main difference: Apple is pushing an industry standard encoding controlled by a standards group (which includes Microsoft employees among its members). Microsoft is pushing a proprietary encoding whose specification is secret and controlled entirely by Microsoft.
With respect to FairPlay, which only governs songs purchased via iTMS (BTW, we now know why Apple branded it "iTunes" rather than "Apple," no?), it's quite different in philosophy and practice from MS' DRM. Apple's only attempts to keep honest people honest. MS' attempts to give content providers absolute, arbitrary control. That's another difference, although not one that's relevant to iTunes' choice of encoding standard.
Oh, I understand that completely. I think I may have misspoken
More of what my point was is that is appears Microsoftian. To the average consumer they don't know the difference between WMA and AAC. Apple and the MPEG LA should have made the AAC file format MP4 so people would recognize it as the rightufl heir to MP3. I also think that Apple should continue to make MP3 the default encoder in iTunes to help alleviate criticisms that iTunes is a "closed" system.
More of what my point was is that is appears Microsoftian.
Microsoft is certainly pushing that angle, shamelessly calling the iPod and iTunes "closed".
Quote:
To the average consumer they don't know the difference between WMA and AAC. Apple and the MPEG LA should have made the AAC file format MP4 so people would recognize it as the rightufl heir to MP3.
Actually, the song files created by iTunes are MPEG-4 files: MPEG-4 is a container format, and the actual AAC data is contained within. The suffix of an iTunes-encoded song is something like MP4 (I'm on Windows now, so I don't know exactly, but it's not AAC).
Quote:
I also think that Apple should continue to make MP3 the default encoder in iTunes to help alleviate criticisms that iTunes is a "closed" system.
The criticism has no basis in reality, so changing reality won't affect it. Apple just needs to push the fact that it's MPEG a little harder. Or, they'll just gun for more deals like the one with HP, making it a de facto standard, since a distressing number of people think that Microsoft is the world's most authoritative standards body.
How's that? I thought bitrate was directly translatable to file size, as in a 1 sec file at 128 kb/s would be 128kb. Am I mistaken?
-t
ps - Paul, that was the most convoluted explanation I've ever read because you didn't say what you were comparing it to.
heh, when I was ambiguous assume MP3 (because that is the "standard"
that bit about the bitrate=size is what I thought also, but was enlightened by a WMA using friend of mine... (he has now converted to a dual 2gig G5... but he has something like 20 gigs of well organized .wma files.... sucks for him... heh)
Actually, the song files created by iTunes are MPEG-4 files: MPEG-4 is a container format, and the actual AAC data is contained within. The suffix of an iTunes-encoded song is something like MP4 (I'm on Windows now, so I don't know exactly, but it's not AAC).
FYI, iTunes songs a user imports (not buys) have the .m4a extension. iTMS songs are .m4p -- "p" for protected (Fairplay DRM). QT normally will export an AAC file with the extension .mp4 though. The iTunes way of doing it is to differentiate the files with the encryption tag.
Quote:
The criticism has no basis in reality, so changing reality won't affect it. Apple just needs to push the fact that it's MPEG a little harder. Or, they'll just gun for more deals like the one with HP, making it a de facto standard, since a distressing number of people think that Microsoft is the world's most authoritative standards body.
Nokidding. I practically beat my head against a wall each time I hear this. Apple should stress their encoded files are MPEG format first and foremost. MS ducks this by focusing on the Fairplay DRM, and the iPod being the only player to support the encryption. It's no different than WMA except the proprietary WMA format is on several players. Doesn't make WMA any less crappy a format either.
Protected AAC files have a .m4a file extension, while iTunes ripped AAC files have a .m4p extension. I understand that MPEG 4 is just a container like .mov is, but iTunes doesn't say MPEG 4 encoder, they call it AAC encoder. Apple should be pushing AAC as the preferred format, but by taking away MS's only weapon against the iPod and iTunes by making the default encoder MP3 would help.
Oh, to stay on topic, OMG Apple 0wnz j00. HPod is going to sell crazy huge numbers.
This is the HP "Digital Music Player" as it is called. It has the HP logo on the back. It will be available in June. That's Carly Forina's hand holding it. Go here for the video.
(Gateway's will have a black and white "cow hide" design! )
She shows off the HPod as pictured above. Starting in June the HPod will be in 110,000 retail outlets. Let me say that again, 110,000! Look at the timeline Apple has for the iPod. Come February iPod mini will be shipping in the USA. Also February 1st the Great 100 Million Song Giveaway® beings and goes on for two months. April the iPod mini goes world wide and I would guess is accompanied by a semi-global roll out of iTMS. Then in June the HPod hits. Apple is going to sell a total of 2 million iPods, minis, and HPods a quarter. Amazing!
macsRgood4u beat you with the link, but his is at the bottom of the page
110,000!!!!! wow...
lets say that each store sells .5 iPods err "HP's Digital Music Players" per day...thats almost 5 MILLION DMPs... not including direct sales from HP... in 90 days
PLUS apple's already busy retail stores and their 3rd party distributers (even if some do overlap... you don't see many HP computers in stores like target)...
who needs RadioShack? (or does it include them...)
I wonder If apple will have to support the units or HP... that could be a hidden little "bonus" for apple...
this will only drive the price of iPods as a whole down.... economies of scale are BEAUTIFUL!
edit: HOM put the link back... not many people are going to want to go back to look for it...
I hope Apple's supplier is up to the task! They'll have to increase production capacity which means for Apple even lower prices as Paul says - more you make, the cheaper they cost to make. I'm also sure Carly asked about the "battery problem". Obviously she was given the correct answer, i.e. "It's fixed". I know that Apple changed manufacturer's for the battery. This deal will add substantially to Apple's bottom line at the end of the year.
Comments
Originally posted by Paul
yes... but contrary to popular belief iTunes is the trojan horse... not the iPod...
Actually, I think Quicktime is the trojan horse. Now, Apple has their media foundation on many of the windows boxes being sold today. They will repass REAL and make inroads on Windows Media as well.
When people see how well media works on Quicktime in comparison to Windows Media, they will prefer the former.
Additionally, it helps to promote and make Mac the media creation tool. If media outlets prefer to create in Quicktime, but, stick with Windows Media due to default installations, this will give them second thoughts now that the #1 or #2 (depending on when and how reported) PC maker is spreading Quicktime like fire.
And, oh by the way, Apple gets to make money on all of this by pushing iPods with it (as well as more songs through iTMS). Right now, iTMS is a loss-leader, but, with increasing quantities, it could become a profit center easily.
Originally posted by HOM
Couldn't agree more. One thing, in iTunes 4 the default encoder is AAC 128. Doesn't this strike people as Microsoftian? How is this any different than MS making WMA the default encoder?
It's not Microsoftian at all.
MP3 is the audio layer for MPEG-2. AAC is the audio layer for MPEG-4. Apple neither owns nor controls either. Furthermore, the AAC encoding that iTunes uses does not use FairPlay, Apple's DRM, so iTunes-ripped songs can be copied and burned as often as you please (as before, copyright law only kicks in depending on what you do with those copies), and they're playable on any platform that supports MPEG-4 - including platforms where Apple has no presence at all, like smart phones. You don't need iTunes, or QuickTime, or any Apple technology to support AAC.
WMA is not an industry standard. It's owned and controlled entirely by Microsoft. That's the main difference: Apple is pushing an industry standard encoding controlled by a standards group (which includes Microsoft employees among its members). Microsoft is pushing a proprietary encoding whose specification is secret and controlled entirely by Microsoft.
With respect to FairPlay, which only governs songs purchased via iTMS (BTW, we now know why Apple branded it "iTunes" rather than "Apple," no?), it's quite different in philosophy and practice from MS' DRM. Apple's only attempts to keep honest people honest. MS' attempts to give content providers absolute, arbitrary control. That's another difference, although not one that's relevant to iTunes' choice of encoding standard.
Originally posted by atomicham
When people see how well media works on Quicktime in comparison to Windows Media, they will prefer the former.
Well, actually, *cough*, let's home QT 7 for Windows is a bit of an improvement over what's currently available.
Originally posted by Amorph
It's not Microsoftian at all.
*SNIP*
Oh, I understand that completely. I think I may have misspoken
More of what my point was is that is appears Microsoftian. To the average consumer they don't know the difference between WMA and AAC. Apple and the MPEG LA should have made the AAC file format MP4 so people would recognize it as the rightufl heir to MP3. I also think that Apple should continue to make MP3 the default encoder in iTunes to help alleviate criticisms that iTunes is a "closed" system.
OK. Color is a little bright for HP. On startup it will be the APPLE logo, not HP!
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
Kendoka,
OK. Color is a little bright for HP. Also, on startup there will be no HP logo. It will be APPLE!
Yeah, this is HP Blue:
AAC is the same size at the same bitrate... with the quality being noticeably better...
hell even the idea of bitrate is inflated with WMA...
128WMA is smaller then 128 AAC and 128 MP3 (which are the same)
but I doubt the Quality of 128 WMA>128MP3, if so only marginally...
128AAC on the other-hand is bigger then WMA, but better sounding then both WMA and MP3 at the same bitrate...
Originally posted by Paul
WMA is half the size at the same bitrate... but I don't think the quality is the same...even if that is what they advertise...
AAC is the same size at the same bitrate... with the quality being noticeably better...
hell even the idea of bitrate is inflated with WMA...
128WMA is smaller then 128 AAC and 128 MP3 (which are the same)
but I doubt the Quality of 128 WMA>128MP3, if so only marginally...
128AAC on the other-hand is bigger then WMA, but better sounding then both WMA and MP3 at the same bitrate...
How's that? I thought bitrate was directly translatable to file size, as in a 1 sec file at 128 kb/s would be 128kb. Am I mistaken?
-t
ps - Paul, that was the most convoluted explanation I've ever read because you didn't say what you were comparing it to.
Originally posted by HOM
More of what my point was is that is appears Microsoftian.
Microsoft is certainly pushing that angle, shamelessly calling the iPod and iTunes "closed".
To the average consumer they don't know the difference between WMA and AAC. Apple and the MPEG LA should have made the AAC file format MP4 so people would recognize it as the rightufl heir to MP3.
Actually, the song files created by iTunes are MPEG-4 files: MPEG-4 is a container format, and the actual AAC data is contained within. The suffix of an iTunes-encoded song is something like MP4 (I'm on Windows now, so I don't know exactly, but it's not AAC).
I also think that Apple should continue to make MP3 the default encoder in iTunes to help alleviate criticisms that iTunes is a "closed" system.
The criticism has no basis in reality, so changing reality won't affect it. Apple just needs to push the fact that it's MPEG a little harder. Or, they'll just gun for more deals like the one with HP, making it a de facto standard, since a distressing number of people think that Microsoft is the world's most authoritative standards body.
Originally posted by torifile
How's that? I thought bitrate was directly translatable to file size, as in a 1 sec file at 128 kb/s would be 128kb. Am I mistaken?
-t
ps - Paul, that was the most convoluted explanation I've ever read because you didn't say what you were comparing it to.
heh, when I was ambiguous assume MP3 (because that is the "standard"
that bit about the bitrate=size is what I thought also, but was enlightened by a WMA using friend of mine... (he has now converted to a dual 2gig G5... but he has something like 20 gigs of well organized .wma files.... sucks for him... heh)
.m4p (protected) for iTMS songs
Originally posted by Amorph
Actually, the song files created by iTunes are MPEG-4 files: MPEG-4 is a container format, and the actual AAC data is contained within. The suffix of an iTunes-encoded song is something like MP4 (I'm on Windows now, so I don't know exactly, but it's not AAC).
FYI, iTunes songs a user imports (not buys) have the .m4a extension. iTMS songs are .m4p -- "p" for protected (Fairplay DRM). QT normally will export an AAC file with the extension .mp4 though. The iTunes way of doing it is to differentiate the files with the encryption tag.
The criticism has no basis in reality, so changing reality won't affect it. Apple just needs to push the fact that it's MPEG a little harder. Or, they'll just gun for more deals like the one with HP, making it a de facto standard, since a distressing number of people think that Microsoft is the world's most authoritative standards body.
Nokidding. I practically beat my head against a wall each time I hear this. Apple should stress their encoded files are MPEG format first and foremost. MS ducks this by focusing on the Fairplay DRM, and the iPod being the only player to support the encryption. It's no different than WMA except the proprietary WMA format is on several players. Doesn't make WMA any less crappy a format either.
Oh, to stay on topic, OMG Apple 0wnz j00. HPod is going to sell crazy huge numbers.
This is the HP "Digital Music Player" as it is called. It has the HP logo on the back. It will be available in June. That's Carly Forina's hand holding it. Go here for the video.
(Gateway's will have a black and white "cow hide" design!
Screed
110,000!!!!! wow...
lets say that each store sells .5 iPods err "HP's Digital Music Players" per day...thats almost 5 MILLION DMPs... not including direct sales from HP... in 90 days
PLUS apple's already busy retail stores and their 3rd party distributers (even if some do overlap... you don't see many HP computers in stores like target)...
who needs RadioShack? (or does it include them...)
I wonder If apple will have to support the units or HP... that could be a hidden little "bonus" for apple...
this will only drive the price of iPods as a whole down.... economies of scale are BEAUTIFUL!
edit: HOM put the link back... not many people are going to want to go back to look for it...