It always saddens me to hear unfounded opinions like Mike's. But if that's what he believes...
</temperance>
</pity>
OK, I guess that one was a bit unfounded. I used to be into the bible a bit, but stopped as I got older... The reason I was saying that is really due to the resistance that people like the pope have had to science in the past. Perhaps I should have said the pope before, not the bible. Human failing, and all that.
Things like, the church refused to accept the possibility of a non-earth-centric view. They tried to hold science back. Things have been edging away from this, until we know that the sun is the centre of our solar system, and that this is going around the Milky Way's centre, etc. So what if we come into contact with another species? Humanity is no longer the centre of the religious universe. If the "aliens" do believe in christianity, then while we'd have to come to terms with the fact that Christianity was right, we'd also have to acknowledge that we aren't "special" from God's point of view. And what if the aliens don't believe in christianity?
I try not to believe anything to be fact - I would fall under the Agnostic category with religion, as I would need proof that either God does exist, or he doesn't. I'm always open to overturning any "beliefs" I pick up.
I guess that just needed to get out... :S You've probably heard all of it before too. Ah well. Feel free to ignore this post.
Thje artifacts are easily explained. NASA didn´t clean up the Eagle "landing site" before they reused it for the "Mars landing".
More seriously: This discredits the whole tin foil hat buisness. I was ready to believe that aliens killed kennedy. But then they produce this crap... I mean. They lose all credibility.
Hey Mike, I'm in complete agreement with you about all the inane things that have happened in the past and agree with Fellowship that your post(s) have been quite fine - this isn't the kind of board where you should be apologetic about what you believe....no quarter is given or asked in this place!
Whenever people haphazardly poop on the Bible I just like to make a distinction whether they are referring to the Bible, or to the works/words of men interpreting (and often MISinterpreting) that book. It is almost always the latter.
I think my jaw would hit the floor if little grey guys hopped off a spaceship and announced they were Jewish/Christian/Muslim/whatever. That's a short story, impossible for me to believe it would happen in reality (heck, I don't believe in flying saucers).
Typical - whenever I want to start quoting the bible, I never have my copy nearby... Ah well, I'll save the quotes for later. I guess the problem with the bible is that it is often so loosly worded that it can easily be misinterpreted, and when the interpretations are found out to be wrong, you can look at it a different way and find new interpretations that make it right again. Like the average astrology trite you get - say something vague enough, and it will happen to a lot of people out there.
I for one will look forward to finding out a) if other civilisations do believe in any of our religions, or indeed any religion, and b) what happens after death, as that'll give the final answer about religion. Just as long as (b) doesn't happen for a good long while... Ideally, after (a).
Personally, my jaw would hit the ground if little grey men emerged from a spaceship. Let alone what religion they are....
Well imagine how the native Americans felt when the Europeans arrived?and with their own religion as well. With their different skin colour and different looks - and with their unusual (to the natives) technology - it likely was a little greater shock than we would have seeing green men in flying saucers.
With respect to religion, what perhaps made it easier to convince natives (those that were convinced) is that aspects of the Christian story and beliefs echoed certain stories and beliefs that some American native tribes already had. This perhaps says something about the universality of the religious impulse ? or, for those who believe ? about the universality of God. I would like to think that the ?little green men? might have beliefs that we would find at least recognizable?.
...waiting for Scott (Midwinter) to add something here...
Just got off a plane from DC - late... little sleep.
Just couldn't couldn't remember how to spell...conspiracy (checked okay in Appleworks just now. Forgot that I had a dictionary staring me in the face way down there in the dock.
Interesting and thoughtful posts, everyone. A calm, level headed, gentlemanly discussion without a single detected personal insult directed to any poster.
Isn't that nice?
I am open to the possibility that 'life here began out there... far among the heavens...'and' that there may yet be brothers of man who, even now, struggle for survival somewhere out there among the stars.'
There will be no anomalies found on Mars for many years(yes, I do believe we're "not alone".). Every piece of equipment we send over there will simply malfunction or cease to work. Mark my words.\
I think the entire world would realize a new revelation if Hoagland is correct.
I am not sure the Bible would take a hit.
Fellowship
The Bible wouldn't necessarily take a hit....but some of the more absurd interpretations of it (which are very popular) would become redundant......and that would be for the best!
Statistically...is the existence of life elsewhere more, or less likely?
How wild would it be not if we discovered life there, but definitive proof of past intelligent life (such as the remnants of an old dam). Suddenly every archeologist in the world would be banging down NASA's door. A great way for justify future spending on manned missions to Mars (Bush's phony ploy not withstanding).
What about the possibility that there is some new, unknown mineral on Mars that has very specific crystalline structures internally, and therefore it literally breaks into similar (or even seemingly identical) pieces? Just a thought.
However, I posited a similar question in the other Mars thread (about water) in terms of stumbling upon the remnants of a past civilization. Hassan mentioned the likeness of a dam / abnormal soil erosion related to a dam as being in the photo therein.
Not to sound like a Mod, but with the exception of political discussion I wonder if this thread shouldn't be merged with the Official Mars Exploration Thread....seems appropriate, instead of having five Mars threads hanging about.
Good point. Shouldn't this thread be merged with the Official Mars Exploration Thread....seems appropriate, instead of having five Mars threads hanging about.
I kind of think that the topic of this thread is different enough to warrant its own identity. The original Mars Exploration Thread and the Lost in Space one are about the status and events of the Rovers. This one seems to be more speculative and interpretive, and can have more leeway with regard to hypothetical or rhetorical content.
In other words, place your alien conspiracies here.
Comments
Originally posted by drewprops
<pity>
<temperance=4>
It always saddens me to hear unfounded opinions like Mike's. But if that's what he believes...
</temperance>
</pity>
OK, I guess that one was a bit unfounded. I used to be into the bible a bit, but stopped as I got older... The reason I was saying that is really due to the resistance that people like the pope have had to science in the past. Perhaps I should have said the pope before, not the bible. Human failing, and all that.
Things like, the church refused to accept the possibility of a non-earth-centric view. They tried to hold science back. Things have been edging away from this, until we know that the sun is the centre of our solar system, and that this is going around the Milky Way's centre, etc. So what if we come into contact with another species? Humanity is no longer the centre of the religious universe. If the "aliens" do believe in christianity, then while we'd have to come to terms with the fact that Christianity was right, we'd also have to acknowledge that we aren't "special" from God's point of view. And what if the aliens don't believe in christianity?
I try not to believe anything to be fact - I would fall under the Agnostic category with religion, as I would need proof that either God does exist, or he doesn't. I'm always open to overturning any "beliefs" I pick up.
I guess that just needed to get out... :S You've probably heard all of it before too. Ah well. Feel free to ignore this post.
Originally posted by Mike Peel
I believe you did a fine job with the articulation of your views.
Fellowship
More seriously: This discredits the whole tin foil hat buisness. I was ready to believe that aliens killed kennedy. But then they produce this crap... I mean. They lose all credibility.
Whenever people haphazardly poop on the Bible I just like to make a distinction whether they are referring to the Bible, or to the works/words of men interpreting (and often MISinterpreting) that book. It is almost always the latter.
I think my jaw would hit the floor if little grey guys hopped off a spaceship and announced they were Jewish/Christian/Muslim/whatever. That's a short story, impossible for me to believe it would happen in reality (heck, I don't believe in flying saucers).
I for one will look forward to finding out a) if other civilisations do believe in any of our religions, or indeed any religion, and b) what happens after death, as that'll give the final answer about religion. Just as long as (b) doesn't happen for a good long while... Ideally, after (a).
Personally, my jaw would hit the ground if little grey men emerged from a spaceship. Let alone what religion they are....
With respect to religion, what perhaps made it easier to convince natives (those that were convinced) is that aspects of the Christian story and beliefs echoed certain stories and beliefs that some American native tribes already had. This perhaps says something about the universality of the religious impulse ? or, for those who believe ? about the universality of God. I would like to think that the ?little green men? might have beliefs that we would find at least recognizable?.
...waiting for Scott (Midwinter) to add something here...
Originally posted by Kickaha
I've got a simpler explanation.
Spirit landed on Beagle 2's debris field.
Standing up and applauding
Aries 1B
Originally posted by Eugene
I found an anomaly in your spelling.
Just got off a plane from DC - late... little sleep.
Just couldn't couldn't remember how to spell...conspiracy (checked okay in Appleworks just now. Forgot that I had a dictionary staring me in the face way down there in the dock.
Aries 1B
Isn't that nice?
I am open to the possibility that 'life here began out there... far among the heavens...'and' that there may yet be brothers of man who, even now, struggle for survival somewhere out there among the stars.'
Aries 1B
Aries 1B
http://www.enterprisemission.com/spirit2.htm
Odds that the next rover is dead on arrival? Hmmmmmm?
Originally posted by Eugene
Gak gak gak gak gak!
Yes, but can you prove it?
Gakkety Gak Gak!
Aries 1B
Gak!
a) Damn.
b) Erosion.
Originally posted by Fellowship
I think the entire world would realize a new revelation if Hoagland is correct.
I am not sure the Bible would take a hit.
Fellowship
The Bible wouldn't necessarily take a hit....but some of the more absurd interpretations of it (which are very popular) would become redundant......and that would be for the best!
Statistically...is the existence of life elsewhere more, or less likely?
However, I posited a similar question in the other Mars thread (about water) in terms of stumbling upon the remnants of a past civilization. Hassan mentioned the likeness of a dam / abnormal soil erosion related to a dam as being in the photo therein.
In other words, place your alien conspiracies here.
(Another mod is free to override me of course.)