Reminds me of the ubergeniuses in kindergarden who would cut and paste their ubergenius kaleidoscopic collage while their tongue is hanging out.
I guess they still instill resentment and anxiety . . even after all these years. I guess it really hurt your feewings to watch the brilliant ones achieve so easily . . . . its always hard to be shown up by the "ubergeniuses" hunh Blue shift?!?!
Bunge I'm interested. What at the facts as you see them. I'll get you started. Feel free to modify, add, delete as you see fit.
Some heckler(s) had to be removed because they refused to leave.
Franken went to them to remove them.
Something happened...
Franken got the guy in a bear hug, lifted off his feet and toss him on his side.
What else....
None of us know if the hecklers simply refused to leave. One account claims that there was a battery that ended up with Al's glasses being broken.
As for the 'body slam', I'm not sure if it's an accurate description or not, but IF someone elbowed Al and broke Al's glasses, then even the body slam as you describe it isn't necessarily excessive.
Where do you get this 'truth'? Nothing posted here supports your claim.
It's this little thing I like to call.. the primary source.
Quote:
"I got down low and took his legs out," said Franken afterwards.
Quote:
Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him onto the floor.
"I was a wrestler so I used a wrestling move," Franken said.
Note this is not a secondary source "characterizing" Franken's actions. Likewise the secondary sources quoted in the articles were obviously spinning the story because, as I said, they did not quote Franken and likewise left out the actions where he did anything more than "escort" someone from the room.
Franken isn't a hard man to find. He isn't exactly soft spoken or afraid to speak his mind. The reason he isn't quoted is because doing so harms the spin.
It's this little thing I like to call.. the primary source.
...
Franken isn't a hard man to find. He isn't exactly soft spoken or afraid to speak his mind. The reason he isn't quoted is because doing so harms the spin.
That's a slippery slope there, trusting words that come out of Franken's mouth...
Me neither, if I'm going to support a candidate it'll be through a direct transference of financial instruments, aka, a check (for more than $1 btw). I think that Al Franken was perfectly within his rights to take part in this scuffle. I also firmly believe that I am within my rights to label him as a partisan.
So where's your primary source stating that Al's actions were excessive? Oh, you don't have any because you're being evasive as usual.
You have no evidence Al's actions weren't necessary. You're wrong about this issue like so many others. Sorry.
Do you even try to make sense any more? You didn't ask how I knew the actions were excessive. I'm not being evasive. You are changing the question. You asked how I knew he tackled the guy. Where I got that "truth?" I cited the actual quotes of Franken to support the fact that he tackled him to the ground.
Here is a primary source that indicated he didn't think the second guy was going to jump, and he also doesn't indicate that the guy was a threat to Dean at all. He also mentions the size of the security guards, and the methods they use.
Joshua Marshall... Talking Points Memo... up in the upper level. Another primary source.
Quote:
This was actually a coordinated LaRouchie attack, with shouts, escalating into heckles and then blowing right through to blizzards of four-letter-words. It also seemed to show up some weaknesses in the Dean security detail. We were up on the theater's upper level and had one of the hecklers come down to the ledge, arms looping this way and that, screaming about Cheney, screaming at Dean, mostly just screaming.
He was the second string protestor or rather the second wave, after the first guy got tossed. Security at these sorts of events tends to be a 'C'mon, c'mon, you've really got to leave now' sort of affair. But as he was working up into full-froth a crew-cut three-hundred-poundish all-together not nice looking guy stomped out, extended his arm, grabbed the dude by the scruff of his neck, said a couple unpleasant things, and then proceeded to shake the guy around like a friggin' rag doll, all the while making clear that he really shouldn't have made such a scene.
Best of all though is how they have used the ominousness of the first protester to justify Franken's actions with the SECOND protestor.
From the National Review link...
Quote:
But just then, a second protester stood up and began his own high-volume tirade.
"Dean's a liar!" he hollered.
At that point, comedian Al Franken rose from among the journalists and others near the stage and said, "Let's get him out of here."
Franken and a few others hustled the second man outside. As they did so, the first ill-mannered LaRouchite reemerged, this time standing in the balcony to the left of the proscenium, bellowing as before and looking ominously like John Wilkes Boothe just before he leapt from the balcony onto the stage of Ford's Theater and landed with a bang in the history books.
So note that they make the first protester sound like he might harm Dean, but of course that isn't the protester Franken dealt with. He dealt with the second protester. By the National Review accounting, Franken had already dealt with the second protester downstairs and who was being hustled outside when the "ominous" protester was taking action.
From the CNN accounting...
Quote:
Franken, a comedian and self-described liberal well-known for his attacks on the Bush administration and conservative-leaning media, helped carry out one of the disrupters. In the process, Franken's glasses were knocked off his face and broke in two.
Putting them back together with electrical tape, he quipped he had been "deputized" by Dean's security.
I look through the entire article and see no spin about the protesters being a threat. We see that instead of being "escorted" out, the protester was, at a minimum, carried out. It also mentions that much of the crowd was not even aware of the protesters. That doesn't sound like a threat to me.
As for being wrong, I assure you that when I see you disagreeing, I know I have likely said the correct thing.
You asked how I knew he tackled the guy. Where I got that "truth?" I cited the actual quotes of Franken to support the fact that he tackled him to the ground.
You claimed the man that was tackled wasn't a threat. You have no proof of that. You're making it up to support your original argument and it's silly.
You claimed the man that was tackled wasn't a threat. You have no proof of that. You're making it up to support your original argument and it's silly.
I have every article posted so far that doesn't mention he is a threat. I even showed how when the second protester was portrayed in very menacing tones, how it still didn't relate to the protester that Franken had dealt with.
You are the one making the assertion that someone is a threat. You should have to prove your point. It is almost impossible to prove, that someone is NOT something in this context.
You have no proof he was a threat including no quotes from Franken himself or Joshua Marshall. Pretty decent primary sources in your book never mentioning that they were a threat.
Prove your assertion or give it up. Franken tackled a heckler, not a threat or presidential nominee assassin or even the heckler that could have been spun into these claims. He took care of the first guy downstair who was yelling. Prove otherwise or be quiet because I have cited from the articles to prove this and you have just made sarcastic snipes and false claims.
Comments
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Reminds me of the ubergeniuses in kindergarden who would cut and paste their ubergenius kaleidoscopic collage while their tongue is hanging out.
I guess they still instill resentment and anxiety . . even after all these years. I guess it really hurt your feewings to watch the brilliant ones achieve so easily . . . . its always hard to be shown up by the "ubergeniuses" hunh Blue shift?!?!
it is so obviouse, I don't understand it . . . a comedian gets his glasses knocked off and he riffs about 'body slamming'
um . . . yeah proof of misconduct
and I was all for thinking that it was just a dumb move until I read the other reports (from conservative sources) and THOUGHT about it
Originally posted by trumptman
The point that Franken tackled a heckler, not some threat to Dean or anyone else still remains true.
Where do you get this 'truth'? Nothing posted here supports your claim.
Some heckler(s) had to be removed because they refused to leave.
Franken went to them to remove them.
Something happened...
Franken got the guy in a bear hug, lifted off his feet and toss him on his side.
What else....
Originally posted by Scott
Bunge I'm interested. What at the facts as you see them. I'll get you started. Feel free to modify, add, delete as you see fit.
Some heckler(s) had to be removed because they refused to leave.
Franken went to them to remove them.
Something happened...
Franken got the guy in a bear hug, lifted off his feet and toss him on his side.
What else....
None of us know if the hecklers simply refused to leave. One account claims that there was a battery that ended up with Al's glasses being broken.
As for the 'body slam', I'm not sure if it's an accurate description or not, but IF someone elbowed Al and broke Al's glasses, then even the body slam as you describe it isn't necessarily excessive.
Originally posted by bunge
Where do you get this 'truth'? Nothing posted here supports your claim.
It's this little thing I like to call.. the primary source.
"I got down low and took his legs out," said Franken afterwards.
Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him onto the floor.
"I was a wrestler so I used a wrestling move," Franken said.
Note this is not a secondary source "characterizing" Franken's actions. Likewise the secondary sources quoted in the articles were obviously spinning the story because, as I said, they did not quote Franken and likewise left out the actions where he did anything more than "escort" someone from the room.
Franken isn't a hard man to find. He isn't exactly soft spoken or afraid to speak his mind. The reason he isn't quoted is because doing so harms the spin.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
It's this little thing I like to call.. the primary source.
...
Franken isn't a hard man to find. He isn't exactly soft spoken or afraid to speak his mind. The reason he isn't quoted is because doing so harms the spin.
That's a slippery slope there, trusting words that come out of Franken's mouth...
Originally posted by Scott
So everything a comedian says is a joke? Embellished in some way. So we can then disregard his entire book as a joke.
Well, of course you can . . . you would anyway . .
you would even if it had the irrefutability of a Euclidean theorem
Originally posted by trumptman
It's this little thing I like to call.. the primary source.
So where's your primary source stating that Al's actions were excessive? Oh, you don't have any because you're being evasive as usual.
You have no evidence Al's actions weren't necessary. You're wrong about this issue like so many others. Sorry.
Lyndon Larouche got $1 million in matching funds. $1 million of hard earned US worker money went to that guy as matching funds.
So ... we paid for those dipshits to be there. If only Franken had picked their pocket and returned what little he could.
Originally posted by Scott
You all want to be pissed off about something? ... do ya?
Lyndon Larouche got $1 million in matching funds. $1 million of hard earned US worker money went to that guy as matching funds.
So ... we paid for those dipshits to be there. If only Franken had picked their pocket and returned what little he could.
i have never checked the matching funds box on my income tax return.
And to say that this topic is TIRED.
Originally posted by bunge
So where's your primary source stating that Al's actions were excessive? Oh, you don't have any because you're being evasive as usual.
You have no evidence Al's actions weren't necessary. You're wrong about this issue like so many others. Sorry.
Do you even try to make sense any more? You didn't ask how I knew the actions were excessive. I'm not being evasive. You are changing the question. You asked how I knew he tackled the guy. Where I got that "truth?" I cited the actual quotes of Franken to support the fact that he tackled him to the ground.
Here is a primary source that indicated he didn't think the second guy was going to jump, and he also doesn't indicate that the guy was a threat to Dean at all. He also mentions the size of the security guards, and the methods they use.
Joshua Marshall... Talking Points Memo... up in the upper level. Another primary source.
This was actually a coordinated LaRouchie attack, with shouts, escalating into heckles and then blowing right through to blizzards of four-letter-words. It also seemed to show up some weaknesses in the Dean security detail. We were up on the theater's upper level and had one of the hecklers come down to the ledge, arms looping this way and that, screaming about Cheney, screaming at Dean, mostly just screaming.
He was the second string protestor or rather the second wave, after the first guy got tossed. Security at these sorts of events tends to be a 'C'mon, c'mon, you've really got to leave now' sort of affair. But as he was working up into full-froth a crew-cut three-hundred-poundish all-together not nice looking guy stomped out, extended his arm, grabbed the dude by the scruff of his neck, said a couple unpleasant things, and then proceeded to shake the guy around like a friggin' rag doll, all the while making clear that he really shouldn't have made such a scene.
Best of all though is how they have used the ominousness of the first protester to justify Franken's actions with the SECOND protestor.
From the National Review link...
But just then, a second protester stood up and began his own high-volume tirade.
"Dean's a liar!" he hollered.
At that point, comedian Al Franken rose from among the journalists and others near the stage and said, "Let's get him out of here."
Franken and a few others hustled the second man outside. As they did so, the first ill-mannered LaRouchite reemerged, this time standing in the balcony to the left of the proscenium, bellowing as before and looking ominously like John Wilkes Boothe just before he leapt from the balcony onto the stage of Ford's Theater and landed with a bang in the history books.
So note that they make the first protester sound like he might harm Dean, but of course that isn't the protester Franken dealt with. He dealt with the second protester. By the National Review accounting, Franken had already dealt with the second protester downstairs and who was being hustled outside when the "ominous" protester was taking action.
From the CNN accounting...
Franken, a comedian and self-described liberal well-known for his attacks on the Bush administration and conservative-leaning media, helped carry out one of the disrupters. In the process, Franken's glasses were knocked off his face and broke in two.
Putting them back together with electrical tape, he quipped he had been "deputized" by Dean's security.
I look through the entire article and see no spin about the protesters being a threat. We see that instead of being "escorted" out, the protester was, at a minimum, carried out. It also mentions that much of the crowd was not even aware of the protesters. That doesn't sound like a threat to me.
As for being wrong, I assure you that when I see you disagreeing, I know I have likely said the correct thing.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
You asked how I knew he tackled the guy. Where I got that "truth?" I cited the actual quotes of Franken to support the fact that he tackled him to the ground.
You claimed the man that was tackled wasn't a threat. You have no proof of that. You're making it up to support your original argument and it's silly.
Originally posted by trumptman
As for being wrong, I assure you that when I see you disagreeing, I know I have likely said the correct thing.
Originally posted by bunge
You claimed the man that was tackled wasn't a threat. You have no proof of that. You're making it up to support your original argument and it's silly.
I have every article posted so far that doesn't mention he is a threat. I even showed how when the second protester was portrayed in very menacing tones, how it still didn't relate to the protester that Franken had dealt with.
You are the one making the assertion that someone is a threat. You should have to prove your point. It is almost impossible to prove, that someone is NOT something in this context.
You have no proof he was a threat including no quotes from Franken himself or Joshua Marshall. Pretty decent primary sources in your book never mentioning that they were a threat.
Prove your assertion or give it up. Franken tackled a heckler, not a threat or presidential nominee assassin or even the heckler that could have been spun into these claims. He took care of the first guy downstair who was yelling. Prove otherwise or be quiet because I have cited from the articles to prove this and you have just made sarcastic snipes and false claims.
Nick