If you have VALID reasons then I'll respect your tastes.
Oh, so now you're not only the only judge of what is 'tasteful', but now of what opinions are 'valid' as well?
Is it any *wonder* people in this thread are calling you an arrogant snob?
"Mine is the only set of tastes that are correct - your opinion is not only wrong, but not even valid."
Jesus.
People have different tastes. Deal with it. Go listen to what you like, but if someone tries what you like, and doesn't care for it, it doesn't mean they're wrong.
Personally, I love punk. Your over intellectualized and, frankly, simplistic analysis of punk's tonal qualities while utterly missing the sociological and emotional gestalt that it tapped into during that period of world culture indicates to me, at least, that your definition of culture stops with the 19th century. Perhaps you need to educate yourself?
See how easy it is to trash someone else's opinion?
FWIW, I love Bach. I like a capella, in most cases.
I don't mind the Swingle Singers... they have a cute gimmick. They're just not my personal tastes. If they're yours, fantastic. Go listen your little heart out.
Quote:
I never said you should all embrace the swingle singers but why such mean comments against them even before I said anything?
You are free to like whatever you want, but if it isn't what steve [or wotan] likes, you are ignorant.
Exactly.
Both sides of this argument have made some very valid points, but like steve has said, a lot of peoples distaste of classical and other non-mainstream genres of music usually ARE based on ignorance. I have encountered so many situations throuout my life of people saying "eww why do you listen to that stuff" "thats old people music" etc. Basically, if their not familiar with it, its bad music.
I think what many people dont understand is that listening to different styles of music require different perceptional-cognitive attitudes. In other words, you can't listen to Mozart and expect to get the same things that you get from listening to the Ramones. Their completely different. So therefore you have to change the way you listen. And of course I'm not saying that simply changing the way you listen will make you understand all of the music you don't like, theres still plenty of bad music out there, but there are artists and genres of music that I'm not all that into, but I can still recognize their talent and quality and understand why people like them even though their not necessarily my cup of tea.
Quote:
Maybe if you wanted to get these reprobates turned on to some kulchur it would be better to go with Bond - they don't sound much worse than the SS and they certainly look a hell of a lot better...
Meh. You think thats hot? You guys need check out some of THIS action:
Agh! I can't believe anyone insisting that not liking something that's outside the mainstream?whatever that may be?is a sign of ignorance. You hear comments like that all the time?"Well you just haven't been exposed to the right kind of (insert musical genre here) yet." I hear it most often from people who are fans of rap and hip-hop, which is music I don't personally like, but I'm not going to call someone ignorant if they don't happen to enjoy music I do like. That in itself is ignorant thinking.
Punk music will do fine without your respect, stevegongrui, but thanks for sharing.
but I'm not going to call someone ignorant if they don't happen to enjoy music I do like. That in itself is ignorant thinking.
My calling people ignorant was a defence on them saying classical music sux.
There is a difference in appreciating classical and liking classical music. I can live with people who do not like classical music but not appreciating it and calling it ewwww or dismissing it as shit is not acceptable...and it is an example of uneducated ignorance.
Dismissing or not appreciating classical music is not acceptable? As in you don't accept it? That's fine, stevegongrui, but you can't expect everyone in the world not to accept it either. It may be hard to fathom, but the world does not revolve around you.
EDIT:
FWIW, I'm a musician. I've played the piano since I was about six years old, so this year that would make 24 years. I spent a lot of time studying classical music, then moved on to jazz and blues when I started to feel too constrained by the piano teachers who wanted to turn me into a classical pianist.
Sometimes I miss it, because I think if I'd stuck with the piano lessons I'd have a little more discipline today as a musician. But ever since I stopped studying classical music, my musical abilities have only been expanding into composing, arranging, performing live in jazz and rock bands, etc. I do happen to have an appreciation for some classical music (and I really have to disagree with the idea that appreciating something and liking it are different things) but I'm turned off by the rigidness of most of it. That's not to say that the music isn't sometimes expressive, it's just that I think that that expressiveness can only go so far when the musicians are sitting there essentially following instructions instead of actually playing. They read the music, they watch the conductor (in the case of orchestral music, anyway). I think classical music is about as mainstream as you can get, personally, since the idea is to make sure you play all the notes correctly.
At any rate, the Swingle Singers (who are good, incidentally, and who used to be managed by my uncle while he was still in the business) get points for originality since they're reproducing the music with their voices instead of instruments.
Shut up Steve, you music NAZI. Most people do not like classical music. Calling them closed minded for not automatically liking your preferred music, which you take WAY too seriously, only proves that you are the closed minded and intolerant one.
No one in this thread said that "Classical music sux" as you so eloquently put it (maybe you should learn to spell to go along with your elitism?). You're assuming that because they don't like the Singing Swindlers, they automatically don't like Bach, or classical music in general. Well guess what? The Swinging Singles do a shitty job of murdering Bach's music. They are a disgrace. I listened to them, and they suck.
You can't take any criticism whatsoever. You can dish it out but like the stupid, whining, bitching pussy you are, you can't take any without flying off the handle. Your second and third posts in this thread already implied a great deal of elitism ("are you saying it's distasteful? what music do you listen to?"), and after that you go whole hog ("Then your grandma has better taste than you do"). Of course, it's no big deal to rail on punk rock. Go ahead, slam them and their listeners as much as you want, but the moment someone criticizes your pet band, you automatically get offended, assail them for their poor taste, and then pretend like you're the victim ("And why do you all choose to react so strongly against it when I didn't?"). You hypocritical loser.
I think you need to leave the boards for a while, get a life, tell your parents to quit controlling you, discover that being "sophisticated" isn't the most important thing in the world, then come back and re-evaluate the situation. At the very least, we'll all get a break from your mindless babble for a few months.
Some sounds you just dont like say for instance the sound of salt grinding between two hard plastic cups. A capella classical is one of those sounds for me (although not to that extreme, if i hear it on the radio i am more than likely to keep moving -- in fact i really dont like vocals i cant distiguish from the background including instances from hard rock to rap to some drunk on the pavement slurring the words of sesame street ).
I didnt say anything mean about the group in question. I can say mean things about them, but without resorting to mockery of their crappy a capella-esque name, I really have no objections to their existence or your appreciation of their musical productions. Enjoy them steve. Saying I dont like them doesnt mean you shouldnt.
i think i should also mention that when i do turn my radio on it is tuned to npr, a classic rock station or a classical music station. I like classical music. I think there is art in most things even the rythmic pulse of a child banging pots and pans. I dont like a capella classical music. So sue me. At least I took the time to listen to it and am open to people liking/appreciating it. But I dont like it, and if I had my choice I wouldnt listen to it.
Steve, it is a remarkable imaturity that your posts represent here. Remarkable. This has nothing to do with your choice in music but in the way you take personal offense to someone (namely most of us)not liking your taste in music and then acting on that "insult" and retorting with your own. [6th grade] So your tastes are not the tastes of the popular kid. Did you actually think you were the popular kid? Do your parents think you are the popular kid? [/6th grade]. Get over yourself. Not everyone on the planet is uncultured in the Western European elistist sense, and no one is uncultured in the most open sense.
I can live with people who do not like classical music but not appreciating it and calling it ewwww or dismissing it as shit is not acceptable...and it is an example of uneducated ignorance.
This from the guy who makes kids grind shit into their hair?
Oh yeah, and I should maybe warn Luca for his post... or something... but for some reason I can't. Possibly something about it being the best post in this thread.
Golly Steve and Wotan, can I forward on your resumes to the marketing department at Deutsche Grammophon? Can I please? I'm sure you'll give them a few months of good service as you bankrupt them...
As a professional composer, I think it's great that you feel the best way to introduce concert music to people, is to berate and belittle them for their 'unenlightened' and 'ignorant' ways. That's great, really smart guys.
Speaking of ignorance, you two superior f**king idiots should know that Bach isn't classical music, it's Baroque. Half the tracks on the album are JAZZ arrangements of Baroque pieces. You two chucklehead 'experts' don't even know what you're talking about. I've forgotten more about the last ten centuries of western music than you two know put together. Pull your heads out.
Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
Some people say they don't like mercedes-benz and prefer a shitty american car like Ford...
<blah blah blah Dell blah blah Ford blah blah>
Ignorance.
Hmm:
Quote:
Oh yeah, I completely agree.
My electronics are either Apple or Sony, period.
Actually, almost everythnig I have is Sony.
Sony=Mercedes Benz
Canon and others=Volks Wagen or Japanese cars
Yes, you get more for the price with canon, but Sony will always be on top, just like the star.
To those of you who diss Sony and Mercedes-Benz, f uck you!!!!!
For ****'s sake, shut up. I'd take a Ford GT over ANY Mercedes-Benz right now. You're the one that seems to have an elitist stance on this subject. I noticed it before when you said you preferred Sony digital cameras to anything for basically no reason at all. As for Dell, their computers give you more bang for the buck than any Apple ever did.
Whatever man. We're not the ones that need to flesh out our tastes. You are.
Comments
Originally posted by stevegongrui
Well, reasons for hating the swingle singers?
If you have VALID reasons then I'll respect your tastes.
Oh, so now you're not only the only judge of what is 'tasteful', but now of what opinions are 'valid' as well?
Is it any *wonder* people in this thread are calling you an arrogant snob?
"Mine is the only set of tastes that are correct - your opinion is not only wrong, but not even valid."
Jesus.
People have different tastes. Deal with it. Go listen to what you like, but if someone tries what you like, and doesn't care for it, it doesn't mean they're wrong.
Personally, I love punk. Your over intellectualized and, frankly, simplistic analysis of punk's tonal qualities while utterly missing the sociological and emotional gestalt that it tapped into during that period of world culture indicates to me, at least, that your definition of culture stops with the 19th century. Perhaps you need to educate yourself?
See how easy it is to trash someone else's opinion?
FWIW, I love Bach. I like a capella, in most cases.
I don't mind the Swingle Singers... they have a cute gimmick. They're just not my personal tastes. If they're yours, fantastic. Go listen your little heart out.
I never said you should all embrace the swingle singers but why such mean comments against them even before I said anything?
'not my thing' is MEAN?
Dear god, do you have a lot to learn.
Originally posted by murbot
You are free to like whatever you want, but if it isn't what steve [or wotan] likes, you are ignorant.
Exactly.
Both sides of this argument have made some very valid points, but like steve has said, a lot of peoples distaste of classical and other non-mainstream genres of music usually ARE based on ignorance. I have encountered so many situations throuout my life of people saying "eww why do you listen to that stuff" "thats old people music" etc. Basically, if their not familiar with it, its bad music.
I think what many people dont understand is that listening to different styles of music require different perceptional-cognitive attitudes. In other words, you can't listen to Mozart and expect to get the same things that you get from listening to the Ramones. Their completely different. So therefore you have to change the way you listen. And of course I'm not saying that simply changing the way you listen will make you understand all of the music you don't like, theres still plenty of bad music out there, but there are artists and genres of music that I'm not all that into, but I can still recognize their talent and quality and understand why people like them even though their not necessarily my cup of tea.
Maybe if you wanted to get these reprobates turned on to some kulchur it would be better to go with Bond - they don't sound much worse than the SS and they certainly look a hell of a lot better...
Meh. You think thats hot? You guys need check out some of THIS action:
WHOA
Punk music will do fine without your respect, stevegongrui, but thanks for sharing.
Originally posted by mlnjr
but I'm not going to call someone ignorant if they don't happen to enjoy music I do like. That in itself is ignorant thinking.
My calling people ignorant was a defence on them saying classical music sux.
There is a difference in appreciating classical and liking classical music. I can live with people who do not like classical music but not appreciating it and calling it ewwww or dismissing it as shit is not acceptable...and it is an example of uneducated ignorance.
EDIT:
FWIW, I'm a musician. I've played the piano since I was about six years old, so this year that would make 24 years. I spent a lot of time studying classical music, then moved on to jazz and blues when I started to feel too constrained by the piano teachers who wanted to turn me into a classical pianist.
Sometimes I miss it, because I think if I'd stuck with the piano lessons I'd have a little more discipline today as a musician. But ever since I stopped studying classical music, my musical abilities have only been expanding into composing, arranging, performing live in jazz and rock bands, etc. I do happen to have an appreciation for some classical music (and I really have to disagree with the idea that appreciating something and liking it are different things) but I'm turned off by the rigidness of most of it. That's not to say that the music isn't sometimes expressive, it's just that I think that that expressiveness can only go so far when the musicians are sitting there essentially following instructions instead of actually playing. They read the music, they watch the conductor (in the case of orchestral music, anyway). I think classical music is about as mainstream as you can get, personally, since the idea is to make sure you play all the notes correctly.
At any rate, the Swingle Singers (who are good, incidentally, and who used to be managed by my uncle while he was still in the business) get points for originality since they're reproducing the music with their voices instead of instruments.
You can't take any criticism whatsoever. You can dish it out but like the stupid, whining, bitching pussy you are, you can't take any without flying off the handle. Your second and third posts in this thread already implied a great deal of elitism ("are you saying it's distasteful? what music do you listen to?"), and after that you go whole hog ("Then your grandma has better taste than you do"). Of course, it's no big deal to rail on punk rock. Go ahead, slam them and their listeners as much as you want, but the moment someone criticizes your pet band, you automatically get offended, assail them for their poor taste, and then pretend like you're the victim ("And why do you all choose to react so strongly against it when I didn't?"). You hypocritical loser.
I think you need to leave the boards for a while, get a life, tell your parents to quit controlling you, discover that being "sophisticated" isn't the most important thing in the world, then come back and re-evaluate the situation. At the very least, we'll all get a break from your mindless babble for a few months.
Originally posted by stevegongrui
Well, reasons for hating the swingle singers?
Some sounds you just dont like say for instance the sound of salt grinding between two hard plastic cups. A capella classical is one of those sounds for me (although not to that extreme, if i hear it on the radio i am more than likely to keep moving -- in fact i really dont like vocals i cant distiguish from the background including instances from hard rock to rap to some drunk on the pavement slurring the words of sesame street ).
I didnt say anything mean about the group in question. I can say mean things about them, but without resorting to mockery of their crappy a capella-esque name, I really have no objections to their existence or your appreciation of their musical productions. Enjoy them steve. Saying I dont like them doesnt mean you shouldnt.
Steve, it is a remarkable imaturity that your posts represent here. Remarkable. This has nothing to do with your choice in music but in the way you take personal offense to someone (namely most of us)not liking your taste in music and then acting on that "insult" and retorting with your own. [6th grade] So your tastes are not the tastes of the popular kid. Did you actually think you were the popular kid? Do your parents think you are the popular kid? [/6th grade]. Get over yourself. Not everyone on the planet is uncultured in the Western European elistist sense, and no one is uncultured in the most open sense.
Originally posted by stevegongrui
I can live with people who do not like classical music but not appreciating it and calling it ewwww or dismissing it as shit is not acceptable...and it is an example of uneducated ignorance.
This from the guy who makes kids grind shit into their hair?
You are interesting, I'll give you that.
Oh yeah, and I should maybe warn Luca for his post... or something... but for some reason I can't. Possibly something about it being the best post in this thread.
Or something.
As a professional composer, I think it's great that you feel the best way to introduce concert music to people, is to berate and belittle them for their 'unenlightened' and 'ignorant' ways. That's great, really smart guys.
Speaking of ignorance, you two superior f**king idiots should know that Bach isn't classical music, it's Baroque. Half the tracks on the album are JAZZ arrangements of Baroque pieces. You two chucklehead 'experts' don't even know what you're talking about. I've forgotten more about the last ten centuries of western music than you two know put together. Pull your heads out.
Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
Sheesh.
This thread's got legs.
EDIT: oh yeah , great thread!
Originally posted by 709
Bach is for pussies.
Wagner is the pussy, however. Well, him and Philip Glass.
Originally posted by stevegongrui
Some people say they don't like mercedes-benz and prefer a shitty american car like Ford...
<blah blah blah Dell blah blah Ford blah blah>
Ignorance.
Hmm:
Oh yeah, I completely agree.
My electronics are either Apple or Sony, period.
Actually, almost everythnig I have is Sony.
Sony=Mercedes Benz
Canon and others=Volks Wagen or Japanese cars
Yes, you get more for the price with canon, but Sony will always be on top, just like the star.
To those of you who diss Sony and Mercedes-Benz, f uck you!!!!!
For ****'s sake, shut up. I'd take a Ford GT over ANY Mercedes-Benz right now. You're the one that seems to have an elitist stance on this subject. I noticed it before when you said you preferred Sony digital cameras to anything for basically no reason at all. As for Dell, their computers give you more bang for the buck than any Apple ever did.
Whatever man. We're not the ones that need to flesh out our tastes. You are.