It's been almost two weeks and I have seen ZERO things in the news that I can point to and say that this movie raised someone's Anti-Semetic ire to such a point that they took it out on Jews. Granted, I don't have access to every news source, but I would like someone to point me to a credible story of this nature. This implies to me that the cries of Anti-Semetism were completely overblown, although the future could prove me wrong.
BTW, my favorite story was an editorial that stated that Mel is trying to start a new holocaust. I couldn't believe that it was even printed. I could imagine seing it in the Onion, but not in a credible newspaper. The writer ended his story by saying that Mel must be really disappointed that the movie has started new dialogues between Christians and Jews rather than an ethnic war. What FUD.
It's been almost two weeks and I have seen ZERO things in the news that I can point to and say that this movie raised someone's Anti-Semetic ire.......
This is an important point. But it will probably get less coverage than the signing of the Iraqi preliminary Constitution.
We're not likely to hear anything at all about hate-acts carried out because people watched this movie. It's just a completely illogical argument, no matter how much one might dislike the movie....
Also, I think dmz's editorial does hit on an interesting point no one really mentioned before. There is a LOAD of horrendous, violent crap shown in our theatres each year, and no one says squat about it.
Add a religious context and suddenly it's "too much" and "irresponsible" and all the rest. One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.
One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.
Right now there's only PC finger pointing AFAICT.
Did this movie make people forget Vatican II already?
There's more to it than that; Vatican II is essentially between Jews and Catholics. There are many denominations that never had that type of reckoning in such a formal manner... so the whole issue of whether and how Jews of the time were involved in Jesus' death, has never been taken up where these other Christians are concerned AFAIK.
Sometimes I think it's just a lack of awareness as to what the basic principles of the other group's religion are. We are never taught the implications of our religious beliefs as children (in terms of what people of other faiths believe and where the differences are). We are just taught to memorize things... no different that a grade school history class, and less rigorous in many respects (if that's possible).
In the end, the real point of contention never comes out in situations like this because the issues are glossed over by the media in very superficial ways.
I ran across this piece. Apparently this fellow interviewed PopGobson . . . and he it re-inforces what anbody willing to acknowledge already knows about MilfGobson's piece of sado-masochistic repressed travesty of film . . . that he and his father share essential ideas . . . stupid, hateful ideas
Quote:
Interview with Mel Gibson?s dad
teaches strange ?lessons? on life
By Steve Feuerstein
NEW YORK, March 14 (JTA) ? I learned a lifelong lesson during my recent interview with Mel Gibson?s father, Hutton Gibson. The interview took place on the eve of the release of Mel Gibson?s new movie, ?The Passion of the Christ.?
I learned that there actually were no concentration camps during the Holocaust, only work camps.
I learned that the Holocaust was a fiction, a fabricated business tool used strategically to siphon hard-earned money from the coffers of innocent governments worldwide.
I learned that there are too many survivors left in the world for there ever to have been a Holocaust.
I learned that the Jews just walked off the plazas of Europe right onto the streets of the Bronx, Brooklyn, Sydney and Los Angeles. In fact, I learned that the Germans were such an efficient people that if they had wanted to murder 6 million people, well then by golly they would have done it!
But this was only the beginning of my education.
I learned from Hutton Gibson that every generation of Jews aspires toward global dominion through one world religion and one world government. I learned that the Rockefellers, Carnegies and Morgans all were international Jewish bankers whose lifelong plot was to control the U.S. economy.
I learned that Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, as ringleader of this economic band of brothers, should be hanged.
I learned that America must be violently overthrown and that all states must secede from the union.
I learned that ?Japs? who died in ferocious battles during World War II simply were fools and human waste to be cleared off the front line like disposable trash each morning.
I learned that the Vatican has been under Jewish and Masonic control since 1965. And I at last learned the answer to a question that has troubled me since birth: The pope, in fact, is not Catholic; he is Jewish.
I learned that when ?The Passion of the Christ? was screened at the Vatican, the pope was considered nothing more than a ?hostile witness? and a ?dumb ass,? for he obviously could do only one thing upon viewing the film: endorse it.
I learned that no one merits salvation in this world but members of the Gibsons? fringe Catholic sect.
I learned that the Judeo-Christian principle of love for all mankind is nothing more than politically correct rhetoric articulated best when standing before a nationally televised audience. I learned that there is no room in the neighborhood for minorities and diversity.
I learned that conspiracy theories lie behind every door, that there are only others to blame for one?s shortcomings in life, only others to blame for one?s failed dreams. I learned that life is too short for you to be held accountable for helping to make it a better place.
I learned that all men are not created equal, and those age-old aspersions of deicide against the Jews are as alive today as they were 2,000 years ago.
I learned that ?The Passion? was in fact made so that ?everyone would intimately know the line? from Matthew 27:25: ?His blood be upon us and our children,? the cornerstone of the historic blood libel against the Jews.
I learned that a child?s blind honor to a bigoted and racist parent is paramount, and that no wedge will ever be driven between them.
In short, what I learned from Hutton Gibson and his passion was pure, unadulterated, toxic hatred.
Perhaps most importantly, there really was a valuable message that I learned during Gibson?s two-hour tirade: This vicious cycle of generational hate will end only when sons are courageous enough to stand up to the malevolence of their fathers.
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.
On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.
I ran across this piece. Apparently this fellow interviewed PopGobson . . . and he it re-inforces what anbody willing to acknowledge already knows about MilfGobson's piece of sado-masochistic repressed travesty of film . . . that he and his father share essential ideas . . . stupid, hateful ideas
Pfflam, call me crazy, but it sounds like you aren't too pleased with Gibson's movie.
Gibson's father sounds nuts here, but you are too if you think Gibson is going to give the media any purchase on a Father/Son disagreement. I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.
I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.
That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.
That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.
A personal fight is a no-win situation for Gibson---he's been savvy enough to keep it out of the press.
This is hated of Gibson, plain and simple---where was this controvesy before Gibson released this film?---he's been the top Hollywood draw for nearly 10 years; somehow this hasn't been brought up.
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.
On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.
I don't know who you are but **** **f buddy.
I can call MelGobson an asshole all day long if I want to
. . . and his floating turds that he calls movies; and his idiotic martyr syndrome and twisted sense of the heroic; his bloated sense of masculine tragic-drama . . . kitschy romantic suffering . . a nostalgic sentimentality drips from everything that he does, a sentiment that is reminiscent of the tight black leather and oiled skin machismo and psuedo discipline of fascist aesthetics, and all of his script developments smack of hyper-narcisistic persecution complexes which belie a represses infantile fixation on anal eroticism, which would be fine except that the repression turns such a mundane fascination into a proclivity towards self aggrandizement, paranoia and anal-aggressive tendencies . . . Keep his ugly psyche out my neighborhood!!
Jesus (sorry, had too), pfflam, chill out. Mel's films Braveheart, and The Patriot, stunk to high heaven---if you are familar with William Wallace and the history of the American Rebellion, Those two movies came across as Lethal Weapon 5 and 6, or rather Lethal Claymore and Lethal Musket. I'll give him a tenative pass onWe Were Soldiers.... only because I'm not quite familiar with the history of that battle.
But....
I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ. Granted it's not a pistol whipping on The Sopranos, Sarah Jessica Parker getting it on with her latest john in Sex in the City, or Gibson screwing Michelle Pfeiffer in a hot tub in Tequila Sunrise, but it will have to do for the [Insert Christian pregorative/nickname here] demographic.
I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ.
Unfortunately from everything I've heard, while it might be accurate to the book, it's not historically accurate. That's too bad.
Comments
from the email:
> What did you make of the child Satan was holding in the movie? Totally
> escaped me.
The Demon is holding the Old Man, fallen man, the man of sin. This was a
parody of the Virgin and Child.
Indeed, throughout the film there is a sustained parallelism between the
Blessed Virgin and the Demon, who even bears a physical resemblance to the
Virgin. Indeed, they are clothed almost in almost identical garb. They are
constantly being juxtaposed during the Way of the Cross.
BTW, my favorite story was an editorial that stated that Mel is trying to start a new holocaust. I couldn't believe that it was even printed. I could imagine seing it in the Onion, but not in a credible newspaper. The writer ended his story by saying that Mel must be really disappointed that the movie has started new dialogues between Christians and Jews rather than an ethnic war. What FUD.
Originally posted by rogue master
It's been almost two weeks and I have seen ZERO things in the news that I can point to and say that this movie raised someone's Anti-Semetic ire.......
This is an important point. But it will probably get less coverage than the signing of the Iraqi preliminary Constitution.
Originally posted by Leonis
I teared quite a few times during the movie.....
Drama queen!
Also, I think dmz's editorial does hit on an interesting point no one really mentioned before. There is a LOAD of horrendous, violent crap shown in our theatres each year, and no one says squat about it.
Add a religious context and suddenly it's "too much" and "irresponsible" and all the rest. One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.
Right now there's only PC finger pointing AFAICT.
Originally posted by Moogs
One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.
Right now there's only PC finger pointing AFAICT.
Did this movie make people forget Vatican II already?
Sometimes I think it's just a lack of awareness as to what the basic principles of the other group's religion are. We are never taught the implications of our religious beliefs as children (in terms of what people of other faiths believe and where the differences are). We are just taught to memorize things... no different that a grade school history class, and less rigorous in many respects (if that's possible).
In the end, the real point of contention never comes out in situations like this because the issues are glossed over by the media in very superficial ways.
Interview with Mel Gibson?s dad
teaches strange ?lessons? on life
By Steve Feuerstein
NEW YORK, March 14 (JTA) ? I learned a lifelong lesson during my recent interview with Mel Gibson?s father, Hutton Gibson. The interview took place on the eve of the release of Mel Gibson?s new movie, ?The Passion of the Christ.?
I learned that there actually were no concentration camps during the Holocaust, only work camps.
I learned that the Holocaust was a fiction, a fabricated business tool used strategically to siphon hard-earned money from the coffers of innocent governments worldwide.
I learned that there are too many survivors left in the world for there ever to have been a Holocaust.
I learned that the Jews just walked off the plazas of Europe right onto the streets of the Bronx, Brooklyn, Sydney and Los Angeles. In fact, I learned that the Germans were such an efficient people that if they had wanted to murder 6 million people, well then by golly they would have done it!
But this was only the beginning of my education.
I learned from Hutton Gibson that every generation of Jews aspires toward global dominion through one world religion and one world government. I learned that the Rockefellers, Carnegies and Morgans all were international Jewish bankers whose lifelong plot was to control the U.S. economy.
I learned that Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, as ringleader of this economic band of brothers, should be hanged.
I learned that America must be violently overthrown and that all states must secede from the union.
I learned that ?Japs? who died in ferocious battles during World War II simply were fools and human waste to be cleared off the front line like disposable trash each morning.
I learned that the Vatican has been under Jewish and Masonic control since 1965. And I at last learned the answer to a question that has troubled me since birth: The pope, in fact, is not Catholic; he is Jewish.
I learned that when ?The Passion of the Christ? was screened at the Vatican, the pope was considered nothing more than a ?hostile witness? and a ?dumb ass,? for he obviously could do only one thing upon viewing the film: endorse it.
I learned that no one merits salvation in this world but members of the Gibsons? fringe Catholic sect.
I learned that the Judeo-Christian principle of love for all mankind is nothing more than politically correct rhetoric articulated best when standing before a nationally televised audience. I learned that there is no room in the neighborhood for minorities and diversity.
I learned that conspiracy theories lie behind every door, that there are only others to blame for one?s shortcomings in life, only others to blame for one?s failed dreams. I learned that life is too short for you to be held accountable for helping to make it a better place.
I learned that all men are not created equal, and those age-old aspersions of deicide against the Jews are as alive today as they were 2,000 years ago.
I learned that ?The Passion? was in fact made so that ?everyone would intimately know the line? from Matthew 27:25: ?His blood be upon us and our children,? the cornerstone of the historic blood libel against the Jews.
I learned that a child?s blind honor to a bigoted and racist parent is paramount, and that no wedge will ever be driven between them.
In short, what I learned from Hutton Gibson and his passion was pure, unadulterated, toxic hatred.
Perhaps most importantly, there really was a valuable message that I learned during Gibson?s two-hour tirade: This vicious cycle of generational hate will end only when sons are courageous enough to stand up to the malevolence of their fathers.
Originally posted by bunge
What a prick.
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.
On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.
Originally posted by rogue master
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson?
I was speaking about Hutton.
Originally posted by pfflam
I ran across this piece. Apparently this fellow interviewed PopGobson . . . and he it re-inforces what anbody willing to acknowledge already knows about MilfGobson's piece of sado-masochistic repressed travesty of film . . . that he and his father share essential ideas . . . stupid, hateful ideas
Pfflam, call me crazy, but it sounds like you aren't too pleased with Gibson's movie.
Gibson's father sounds nuts here, but you are too if you think Gibson is going to give the media any purchase on a Father/Son disagreement. I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.
Originally posted by dmz
I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.
That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.
Originally posted by bunge
That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.
A personal fight is a no-win situation for Gibson---he's been savvy enough to keep it out of the press.
This is hated of Gibson, plain and simple---where was this controvesy before Gibson released this film?---he's been the top Hollywood draw for nearly 10 years; somehow this hasn't been brought up.
Originally posted by rogue master
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.
On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.
I don't know who you are but **** **f buddy.
I can call MelGobson an asshole all day long if I want to
. . . and his floating turds that he calls movies; and his idiotic martyr syndrome and twisted sense of the heroic; his bloated sense of masculine tragic-drama . . . kitschy romantic suffering . . a nostalgic sentimentality drips from everything that he does, a sentiment that is reminiscent of the tight black leather and oiled skin machismo and psuedo discipline of fascist aesthetics, and all of his script developments smack of hyper-narcisistic persecution complexes which belie a represses infantile fixation on anal eroticism, which would be fine except that the repression turns such a mundane fascination into a proclivity towards self aggrandizement, paranoia and anal-aggressive tendencies . . . Keep his ugly psyche out my neighborhood!!
. . . . hows that for 'childish rant'!
But....
I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ. Granted it's not a pistol whipping on The Sopranos, Sarah Jessica Parker getting it on with her latest john in Sex in the City, or Gibson screwing Michelle Pfeiffer in a hot tub in Tequila Sunrise, but it will have to do for the [Insert Christian pregorative/nickname here] demographic.
Oh, behave!
Originally posted by dmz
I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ.
Unfortunately from everything I've heard, while it might be accurate to the book, it's not historically accurate. That's too bad.