I find it amusing how there seem to be so many people who only really post on AO. This is a site base on Apple..... it's almost like they don't even care if they have a mac or not. They go there just to fight. AO is my least favorite forum here. It's pointless as far as AppleInsider goes, or atleast has become that way. It's just riddled with antagonists who seem to have too much time on their hands. I originally came to AI 5 years ago because I was new to Apple computing and this was mainly a future hardware based site where people could either share inside information or dream of the possibilities of what was in store for them from Apple. Right now AO has roughly 50,000 more posts than Future Hardware.... I don't think it's always been that way, although I didn't really pay much attention back when there was a Fireside chat. Anyway, it's becoming increasingly retarded there lately.....
Maybe we should blame Apple. Things are too good now: G5, widescreen cinema displays, iPods, flat panel iMacs, sweet ass powerbooks, etc.
I suspect when Apple comes out with some G5 revisions and possible new displays people will be talking much more about apple related topics in the other forums here at AI.
but the point being made by the previous poster is that it doesn't matter what is going on with Apple, AppleOutsider has devolved into a mud slinging playground inhabited by mutations of twelve year olds whose parents do not love them. It's really ****ed up. I remember, way back when, when AppleOutsider had some interesting threads. I'd go in there and be all, "Woah, that's a cool question. I'm going to go read that thread!"
Now, when I go in AppleOutsider, I'm like, "Oh wonderful, another thread designed to piss off Conservatives/Arabs/France/Pro-Lifers/etc." I mean really. It's always something political. And we're not even having intelligent political discussions. Some people provide some decent incite, but it has become clear that enough people are not mature enough to provide any sort of intellectual conversation on the flamebait topics at hand.
Thus, we're putting the hammer down. if only you people could search the Moderators forum and look at how long we have been discussing the CRAP that has been spewing from that forum. 'Bout damn time.
haha LoCash I am not trying to argue over AO but I just did a count of threads on the front page and out of 25 threads open 3 - 4 are political in nature.
No fear if things get a little rough the AO mods will do what it takes to keep things civil.
I think Fellowship has a point. Does anyone else think that AO always tends to get worse when there's a "lull" in Apple-related news? I seem to recall we've dealt with this before.
Nah, it's pretty much obnoxious and rotten to the core (ha), period. Apple could release G7 iBooks with 20" displays for $699 and iPod minis in every color known to man for $29 - AND have equally monumental releases of that sort, every other Tuesday throughout the year, guaranteed - and people there would still act like royal dicks. Excuse me...penises.
One has nothing to do with the other.
The most active (offensive) pot-stirrers and rabblerousers don't even seem to venture out beyond AO, as far as I can tell. Maybe a couple, every now and then. But they certainly aren't regular visitors/contributors to General Discussion, Future Hardware, Genius Bar, OS X, Digital Hub, etc.
To them, AppleInsider is pretty much AO. Anyone disagree? Tossing a grenade (metaphorically speaking, of course) into that nest would do very little to diminish AppleInsider's appeal or purpose. Those craving the political/cultural "debates" have about 11 million other sites on the Web to visit and participate in, where posting guidelines might be more to their liking and they can be as venomous and idiotic and abusive as they'd like.
The fact that you guys (mods and admin) have to post multiple stickies, outlining and stressing what should be obvious to anyone with any common sense, and any sort of raising, says a lot. You're in a position of constantly babysitting a bunch of people who can't seem to control themselves. Is that any fun? Is it worth it?
I like AppleOutsider when it's about movies and stuff. When it split off to Fireside Chat, AppleOutsider was pleasant because the goons left. I say a) kill AppleOutsider outright OR b) re-open Fireside Chat, completely unmoderated.
It would eventually implode and collapse under its own idiotic, hateful weight.
Or at least kill all the political threads or give them their own shithole to go stew in. I for one, am sick of being made to feel like a second-class world citizen by trumped up Americans with way too big egos. But of course, that doesn't count as abuse. The idea of another 7 months of this in the run-up to the US election is unbearable.
And I'm sick of the fakes too while I'm at it.
But it was some solace (I suppose) to see AI/AO is not alone in having its problems.
A little slip there, or was that intentional? It works, either way. Insight, incite...
Very intentional. Most productive conversation comes out of assertively challenging another party, or inciting them. AppleOutsider regulars take it to an extreme though
I came to AI orginally as an Apple user who was curious about future hardware.
At that time there seemed to be real intrigue in FH, with plausible rumors getting everyone jacked up.
But since Apple put the lid on leaks, FH seems like mostly "I think Apple should make a duel G5 powerbook or they will go out of business" or "think now of several things that said before, can you guess on how Apple makes with TV power".
So I drifted over to AO. There seems to be a number of pretty smart and informed people that offer up links that I am interested in.
Sure, a lot of the political discussions are round and round, but it's hardly the cesspool of degeneracy ya'll are making out to be.
So what's up? Are the other mac sites teasing you? Did an AO scare you as a child? I mean, the bashing seems wildly disproportionate to what goes on, so I really don't get it.
BTW, as a mac enthusiast I keep up with the other forums, I just don't post there much cause, at least in the case of FH, I kind of burnt out my anticipation gland on "this Tuesday for sure" threads.
Originally posted by addabox Sure, a lot of the political discussions are round and round, but it's hardly the cesspool of degeneracy ya'll are making out to be.
I mean, the bashing seems wildly disproportionate to what goes on, so I really don't get it.
You're not the one that gets the joy of receiving PM's every time someone pisses on someone else's lemonade. You can write off some of it to people being too easily offended, but a lot of these arguments get so heated it is ridiculous. We're not saying everybody in AO stinks of its filth, but a few people incite others to anger by pushing just the right buttons, and causing a thread to crash and burn.
Then we get PM'd about it. We shouldn't have to moderate AO the way we do. You people should be able to exhibit enough self-discipline to know when to not go be an asshole to the other guy in the thread. The only reason most of the posters in there are such ginormous cocks to one another is because they are shielded by the anonymity of the computer. I know you people sure as shit don't talk this way in face to face conversations.
Yes, some people ruined it for the rest of you. I remember specifically telling everybody a LONG time ago that AO is exactly what the members make of it. The moderators have failed to make AO an insightful community. We have failed because the members have not helped us. The members have not given each other the proper motivation to blossom the forum into something that doesn't resemble the back end of a walrus.
It's become our problem because so many people complain about AO. As such, we have to spend more time in there watching over you people. Enough is enough. Clean that shit up post haste, or the bloody thing is getting the axe if we have to keep banning people.
I can say I have gained from AO over the last couple of years. I went from being pretty conservative (in a general sense) to a level headed moderate (as I would describe myself) today. Sure AO has opinionated posters but really there is nothing wrong with this.
If things get ugly in a given thread you can be sure I or another mod will address this as (ugly) is not what is desired. Discussion of topics and differences over issues is really nothing new in the world. There are always going to be people who disagree. This is what makes the world diverse. I would hate to see people all (think the same thing) because that would frankly be a little bland and quite frankly scary.
What if we all drove the same car and we all drove cars that were the same color? Boring no? What if we all ran Windows on a PC computer? Boring? you better believe it.
So I am of the mindset which celebrates this embracing of facing people who state their views / opinions even if I do not subscribe to each and every view. What a boring world it would be if we all thought alike.
So as I see it the forum of AO is comparable to the subject of Sex. Some would rather not discuss such things publicly and are uncomfortable hearing others views. But I think it is not so scary or out of place to have such a forum where by people from differing backgrounds and vantage points come together and contribute their opinions.
Let's face it, AI / AO draws people from an international batch. Not homogenous to one country, not homogenous to one religion or philosophy, and not homogenous in any sense really. I view this as an asset not a liability. There is a lot to learn from by "considering" what a diverse group discusses on such a forum.
I think it is a sort of a "small town" mentality to segregate ones self exclusively to strictly venues where all the members "think alike". I conversely find it to be very multi-cultural and high minded to face a diverse group where we consider all kinds of views. This is not to say we subscribe to any and all views expressed just simply that we are exposed to a variety of "forms of thought".
Again I will do my part to ensure the peace and civility of AO. There will be heated moments. But to live life as though such moments are bad is to ignore a large part of life. If people are afraid of ideas they are in a sense a virtual hermit. Insulated and sterilized from a large segment of a natural life process.
Those who join in the discussions at AO do so willingly and I think for the most part we enjoy ourselves and learn in the process. None of us has a monopoly over knowledge or wisdom but we can learn from the strengths and weaknesses of ourselves and others.
Anyway I wish peace to all and welcome any who wish to join in the fray at AO personally.
And anyway, without AO how would I have ever learned about the Magic Cone , and, more disturbingly, "the Stadium Gal" ?
All this courtesy of the Peeing Thread!
But, LoCash, I hadn't considered what a pain in the ass it must be to get PMed by my AO bretheren. I'm glad I wandered over here, to get a better idea of what goes down behind the scenes.
I hope I can do my bit to not incite, although I am an argumentitive fella.
The peeing thread is actually pretty funny. AO does shine, and there are times when I am happy it is there. If the people that are pissing us off in AO would exhibit some well needed self-discipline and decency, we won't have a problem.
However, we are going to start banning those that need to be tossed the 'ol Clue Ball. If we still can't make it work, we'll kill the forum. Knock on wood
The peeing thread is actually pretty funny. AO does shine, and there are times when I am happy it is there. If the people that are pissing us off in AO would exhibit some well needed self-discipline and decency, we won't have a problem.
However, we are going to start banning those that need to be tossed the 'ol Clue Ball. If we still can't make it work, we'll kill the forum. Knock on wood
Cool by me. Allow me to PM you a list of names of those who must be banned at once.....
Now that I'm a bit less pissed off than I was this morning...Fellows I'm afraid that I can't agree that AO represents the international millieu of AI in general (oh fsck off Safari I don't care if it's spelt wrong). In fact, I think it's the least multi-cultural part of AI despite Apple's own US-centricity.
Let's face it, these dramas are arising in the political and religious threads but I do not see any great level of intellectual debate going on there. All the links and quotes in the world don't add up to intelligent discourse if you're just saying the same thing over and over again. My mental image of those threads is everybody crammed in a room together, yelling at each other with their hands over their ears.
While I think anonomity (ahhhh!!!!) is a big cause of the problem, I also think that one of the inherent problems with AO is that any real or perceived unity that exists in AI proper does not in AO because the Apple factor isn't there. And the political and religious threads are perfectly designed to reveal the lack of commonality in all its gory detail. The "Peeing Thread" works because everybody does it so everybody can relate to it in some way.
What bothers me is what is going on here that some of these people can't roll over and play dead? I mean it's not like by not winning they have to give up their opinions. So what are they masochists? Is it Alpha male shit? Are they just another form of troll? Have they got something going on in their personal lives that makes them bitter and twisted? Because Splinemodel (if you're still listening) anyone who believes it is just an internet forum will roll over and play dead when things are getting rude, crude and unattractive. Simple as that.
Comments
Maybe we should blame Apple. Things are too good now: G5, widescreen cinema displays, iPods, flat panel iMacs, sweet ass powerbooks, etc.
I suspect when Apple comes out with some G5 revisions and possible new displays people will be talking much more about apple related topics in the other forums here at AI.
Just my thoughts,
fellows
Now, when I go in AppleOutsider, I'm like, "Oh wonderful, another thread designed to piss off Conservatives/Arabs/France/Pro-Lifers/etc." I mean really. It's always something political. And we're not even having intelligent political discussions. Some people provide some decent incite, but it has become clear that enough people are not mature enough to provide any sort of intellectual conversation on the flamebait topics at hand.
Thus, we're putting the hammer down. if only you people could search the Moderators forum and look at how long we have been discussing the CRAP that has been spewing from that forum. 'Bout damn time.
No fear if things get a little rough the AO mods will do what it takes to keep things civil.
fellows
Originally posted by Fellowship
No fear if things get a little rough the AO mods will do what it takes to keep things civil.
No doubt, tis why we hired you
I, however, have developed a broader definition of "political"
-jack
Originally posted by LoCash ...some people provide some decent incite...
A little slip there, or was that intentional? It works, either way. Insight, incite...
One has nothing to do with the other.
The most active (offensive) pot-stirrers and rabblerousers don't even seem to venture out beyond AO, as far as I can tell. Maybe a couple, every now and then. But they certainly aren't regular visitors/contributors to General Discussion, Future Hardware, Genius Bar, OS X, Digital Hub, etc.
To them, AppleInsider is pretty much AO. Anyone disagree? Tossing a grenade (metaphorically speaking, of course) into that nest would do very little to diminish AppleInsider's appeal or purpose. Those craving the political/cultural "debates" have about 11 million other sites on the Web to visit and participate in, where posting guidelines might be more to their liking and they can be as venomous and idiotic and abusive as they'd like.
The fact that you guys (mods and admin) have to post multiple stickies, outlining and stressing what should be obvious to anyone with any common sense, and any sort of raising, says a lot. You're in a position of constantly babysitting a bunch of people who can't seem to control themselves. Is that any fun? Is it worth it?
I like AppleOutsider when it's about movies and stuff. When it split off to Fireside Chat, AppleOutsider was pleasant because the goons left. I say a) kill AppleOutsider outright OR b) re-open Fireside Chat, completely unmoderated.
It would eventually implode and collapse under its own idiotic, hateful weight.
Originally posted by pscates
a) kill AppleOutsider outright
Kill it. AO is bad for the soul.
Or at least kill all the political threads or give them their own shithole to go stew in. I for one, am sick of being made to feel like a second-class world citizen by trumped up Americans with way too big egos. But of course, that doesn't count as abuse. The idea of another 7 months of this in the run-up to the US election is unbearable.
And I'm sick of the fakes too while I'm at it.
But it was some solace (I suppose) to see AI/AO is not alone in having its problems.
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/3/24/0502/96199
Originally posted by pscates
A little slip there, or was that intentional? It works, either way. Insight, incite...
Very intentional. Most productive conversation comes out of assertively challenging another party, or inciting them. AppleOutsider regulars take it to an extreme though
I came to AI orginally as an Apple user who was curious about future hardware.
At that time there seemed to be real intrigue in FH, with plausible rumors getting everyone jacked up.
But since Apple put the lid on leaks, FH seems like mostly "I think Apple should make a duel G5 powerbook or they will go out of business" or "think now of several things that said before, can you guess on how Apple makes with TV power".
So I drifted over to AO. There seems to be a number of pretty smart and informed people that offer up links that I am interested in.
Sure, a lot of the political discussions are round and round, but it's hardly the cesspool of degeneracy ya'll are making out to be.
So what's up? Are the other mac sites teasing you? Did an AO scare you as a child? I mean, the bashing seems wildly disproportionate to what goes on, so I really don't get it.
BTW, as a mac enthusiast I keep up with the other forums, I just don't post there much cause, at least in the case of FH, I kind of burnt out my anticipation gland on "this Tuesday for sure" threads.
Originally posted by addabox Sure, a lot of the political discussions are round and round, but it's hardly the cesspool of degeneracy ya'll are making out to be.
You sure you're talking about the right forum?
Any "bashing" is generous and could be worse.
Originally posted by addabox
I mean, the bashing seems wildly disproportionate to what goes on, so I really don't get it.
You're not the one that gets the joy of receiving PM's every time someone pisses on someone else's lemonade. You can write off some of it to people being too easily offended, but a lot of these arguments get so heated it is ridiculous. We're not saying everybody in AO stinks of its filth, but a few people incite others to anger by pushing just the right buttons, and causing a thread to crash and burn.
Then we get PM'd about it. We shouldn't have to moderate AO the way we do. You people should be able to exhibit enough self-discipline to know when to not go be an asshole to the other guy in the thread. The only reason most of the posters in there are such ginormous cocks to one another is because they are shielded by the anonymity of the computer. I know you people sure as shit don't talk this way in face to face conversations.
Yes, some people ruined it for the rest of you. I remember specifically telling everybody a LONG time ago that AO is exactly what the members make of it. The moderators have failed to make AO an insightful community. We have failed because the members have not helped us. The members have not given each other the proper motivation to blossom the forum into something that doesn't resemble the back end of a walrus.
It's become our problem because so many people complain about AO. As such, we have to spend more time in there watching over you people. Enough is enough. Clean that shit up post haste, or the bloody thing is getting the axe if we have to keep banning people.
If things get ugly in a given thread you can be sure I or another mod will address this as (ugly) is not what is desired. Discussion of topics and differences over issues is really nothing new in the world. There are always going to be people who disagree. This is what makes the world diverse. I would hate to see people all (think the same thing) because that would frankly be a little bland and quite frankly scary.
What if we all drove the same car and we all drove cars that were the same color? Boring no? What if we all ran Windows on a PC computer? Boring? you better believe it.
So I am of the mindset which celebrates this embracing of facing people who state their views / opinions even if I do not subscribe to each and every view. What a boring world it would be if we all thought alike.
So as I see it the forum of AO is comparable to the subject of Sex. Some would rather not discuss such things publicly and are uncomfortable hearing others views. But I think it is not so scary or out of place to have such a forum where by people from differing backgrounds and vantage points come together and contribute their opinions.
Let's face it, AI / AO draws people from an international batch. Not homogenous to one country, not homogenous to one religion or philosophy, and not homogenous in any sense really. I view this as an asset not a liability. There is a lot to learn from by "considering" what a diverse group discusses on such a forum.
I think it is a sort of a "small town" mentality to segregate ones self exclusively to strictly venues where all the members "think alike". I conversely find it to be very multi-cultural and high minded to face a diverse group where we consider all kinds of views. This is not to say we subscribe to any and all views expressed just simply that we are exposed to a variety of "forms of thought".
Again I will do my part to ensure the peace and civility of AO. There will be heated moments. But to live life as though such moments are bad is to ignore a large part of life. If people are afraid of ideas they are in a sense a virtual hermit. Insulated and sterilized from a large segment of a natural life process.
Those who join in the discussions at AO do so willingly and I think for the most part we enjoy ourselves and learn in the process. None of us has a monopoly over knowledge or wisdom but we can learn from the strengths and weaknesses of ourselves and others.
Anyway I wish peace to all and welcome any who wish to join in the fray at AO personally.
Peace brothers and sisters
Fellows
All this courtesy of the Peeing Thread!
But, LoCash, I hadn't considered what a pain in the ass it must be to get PMed by my AO bretheren. I'm glad I wandered over here, to get a better idea of what goes down behind the scenes.
I hope I can do my bit to not incite, although I am an argumentitive fella.
Also, Fellows rocks.
However, we are going to start banning those that need to be tossed the 'ol Clue Ball. If we still can't make it work, we'll kill the forum. Knock on wood
Originally posted by LoCash
The peeing thread is actually pretty funny. AO does shine, and there are times when I am happy it is there. If the people that are pissing us off in AO would exhibit some well needed self-discipline and decency, we won't have a problem.
However, we are going to start banning those that need to be tossed the 'ol Clue Ball. If we still can't make it work, we'll kill the forum. Knock on wood
Cool by me. Allow me to PM you a list of names of those who must be banned at once.....
Let's face it, these dramas are arising in the political and religious threads but I do not see any great level of intellectual debate going on there. All the links and quotes in the world don't add up to intelligent discourse if you're just saying the same thing over and over again. My mental image of those threads is everybody crammed in a room together, yelling at each other with their hands over their ears.
While I think anonomity (ahhhh!!!!) is a big cause of the problem, I also think that one of the inherent problems with AO is that any real or perceived unity that exists in AI proper does not in AO because the Apple factor isn't there. And the political and religious threads are perfectly designed to reveal the lack of commonality in all its gory detail. The "Peeing Thread" works because everybody does it so everybody can relate to it in some way.
What bothers me is what is going on here that some of these people can't roll over and play dead? I mean it's not like by not winning they have to give up their opinions. So what are they masochists? Is it Alpha male shit? Are they just another form of troll? Have they got something going on in their personal lives that makes them bitter and twisted? Because Splinemodel (if you're still listening) anyone who believes it is just an internet forum will roll over and play dead when things are getting rude, crude and unattractive. Simple as that.