Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer....voluntarily?
Being given the option to either repeat or not repeat the same supposedly one-size-fits-all prayer being mouthed by a crowd of people is hardly the kind of limited choice a government-supported public institution should be foisting upon the public, especially where children and teens are involved, who are typically highly motivated by a desire for conformity with their peers.
Quote:
The Constitution does not guarantee one's right not to be offended.
Of course not, but the converse does not apply that all offensive things are allowed, the particular offense here being a government institution being used to foster or promote particular religious viewpoints.
Any prayer so completely non-denominational as to truly promote no particular religious viewpoint would have to be so watered down that I can't see how you could call what was left a prayer anymore.
Oh, God, Goddess, Gods or other great divine powers that some of us firmly believe in, while others doubt or firmly deny, but may be willing to kindly accept in a poetic ceremonial sense for the moment perhaps, and to whom we mean no offense if they are not so accepting, please grant your Divine Favor, to a degree commensurate with each of our own senses of how appropriate it is to be asking Your Intervention in these matters, upon our Mighty Wildcats in their upcoming match against Westdale High...
There are only three main categories of viewpoint I can see for those wanting government-sponsored institutions to conduct public prayers:
1) Not understanding the difference between a free democratic society and a tyranny of the majority -- thinking that the question goes no further than "If the majority wants to prayer, why can't we have prayer?"
2) Having an active desire to put the imprimatur of the State upon the act of prayer, with disregard (if not outright contempt) for "technicalities" like separation of Church and State.
Why should my tax dollars send your kid to private school?
You can do whatever you want with you own money.
It's your choice to opt out of the public system.
Why should my tax dollars send my kid to a school I do not agree with?
Why should my tax dollars send checks to people who are able-bodied?
(talk about your "infinite loop" discussion...!)
I CAN'T do what I want with my "own" money. Ask the tax assessor/ school district. I'm required to pay for my kid to be taught things I do not agree with.
It IS a choice, that I should not be penalized for, i.e. paying twice.
Why should my tax dollars send my kid to a school I do not agree with?
Why should my tax dollars send checks to people who are able-bodied?
(talk about your "infinite loop" discussion...!)
I CAN'T do what I want with my "own" money. Ask the tax assessor/ school district. I'm required to pay for my kid to be taught things I do not agree with.
It IS a choice, that I should not be penalized for, i.e. paying twice.
Thank goodness your kids are getting taught things you don't agree with
By the way . . . you don't want your kids to be part of our civilization and still be part of this civilization? then you pay taxes and pay for a private school yourself
Thank goodness your kids are getting taught things you don't agree with
By the way . . . you don't want your kids to be part of our civilization and still be part of this civilization? then you pay taxes and pay for a private school yourself
Unlike most homes, my kids will receive the majority of their moral education at home, and not in front of a television.
OK.. so "our" (who the hell is "we") civilization is only supported by public school and public school alums. Private school kids need not apply. How very open and accepting.
From now on, I want you to send a check to the Christian Coalition in kind every time you donate to a cause you support. So you can feel how wonderful it is to pay for things you have NO use for personally.
When the chips are down on educating the youth of America, it becomes apparent both where the power of coercion lies---and what forms of ideology that you must pay double to avoid.
I gotta agree with BR. It kicks my ass to not be part of the public school system and still have to PAY for the privilige of not sending my kids.
I have no kids at all. Are you going to propose a tax break or a special voucher for me? Why should I have to PAY for the privilege of sending your kids to a private school?
I have no kids at all. Are you going to propose a tax break or a special voucher for me? Why should I have to PAY for the privilege of sending your kids to a private school?
That's not how vouchers work. I get a tax rebate for the amount I paid in for school taxes. You don't pay for MY kid.
I simply get to skip the plasure of pouring money into a failing system, and use that money to send my kid to a school in line with my family's values.
I gotta agree with BR. It kicks my ass to not be part of the public school system and still have to PAY for the privilige of not sending my kids.
That's how taxes work. It kicks my ass to know that the cost of this next year in Iraq is more than the cost of converting our entire national oil system over to a modern system that can handle natural gas and ethanol.
Comments
He's smart... and voted the same way a majority of americans voted in the last election.
Also proves he's not the partisan some are claiming him to be.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer....voluntarily?
Being given the option to either repeat or not repeat the same supposedly one-size-fits-all prayer being mouthed by a crowd of people is hardly the kind of limited choice a government-supported public institution should be foisting upon the public, especially where children and teens are involved, who are typically highly motivated by a desire for conformity with their peers.
The Constitution does not guarantee one's right not to be offended.
Of course not, but the converse does not apply that all offensive things are allowed, the particular offense here being a government institution being used to foster or promote particular religious viewpoints.
Any prayer so completely non-denominational as to truly promote no particular religious viewpoint would have to be so watered down that I can't see how you could call what was left a prayer anymore.
Oh, God, Goddess, Gods or other great divine powers that some of us firmly believe in, while others doubt or firmly deny, but may be willing to kindly accept in a poetic ceremonial sense for the moment perhaps, and to whom we mean no offense if they are not so accepting, please grant your Divine Favor, to a degree commensurate with each of our own senses of how appropriate it is to be asking Your Intervention in these matters, upon our Mighty Wildcats in their upcoming match against Westdale High...
There are only three main categories of viewpoint I can see for those wanting government-sponsored institutions to conduct public prayers:
1) Not understanding the difference between a free democratic society and a tyranny of the majority -- thinking that the question goes no further than "If the majority wants to prayer, why can't we have prayer?"
2) Having an active desire to put the imprimatur of the State upon the act of prayer, with disregard (if not outright contempt) for "technicalities" like separation of Church and State.
Twice the ideas in half the space!
Can't wait to see this movie.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/saved/
Great casting.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
If you want god in your schools... go to private christian schools.
Can't wait to see this movie.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/saved/
Great casting.
Awesome. Can I put you down in the pro-voucher category?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Nope. If you want your god in education... pay for it yourself.
So in other words pay twice. That's crap.
You can do whatever you want with you own money.
It's your choice to opt out of the public system.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Why should my tax dollars send your kid to private school?
You can do whatever you want with you own money.
It's your choice to opt out of the public system.
Why should my tax dollars send my kid to a school I do not agree with?
Why should my tax dollars send checks to people who are able-bodied?
(talk about your "infinite loop" discussion...!)
I CAN'T do what I want with my "own" money. Ask the tax assessor/ school district. I'm required to pay for my kid to be taught things I do not agree with.
It IS a choice, that I should not be penalized for, i.e. paying twice.
Originally posted by dmz
I think we may have lost containment here....somebody tell Geordi to jettison the warp core.
Originally posted by Jubelum
Why should my tax dollars send my kid to a school I do not agree with?
Why should my tax dollars send checks to people who are able-bodied?
(talk about your "infinite loop" discussion...!)
I CAN'T do what I want with my "own" money. Ask the tax assessor/ school district. I'm required to pay for my kid to be taught things I do not agree with.
It IS a choice, that I should not be penalized for, i.e. paying twice.
Thank goodness your kids are getting taught things you don't agree with
By the way . . . you don't want your kids to be part of our civilization and still be part of this civilization? then you pay taxes and pay for a private school yourself
Originally posted by pfflam
Thank goodness your kids are getting taught things you don't agree with
By the way . . . you don't want your kids to be part of our civilization and still be part of this civilization? then you pay taxes and pay for a private school yourself
Unlike most homes, my kids will receive the majority of their moral education at home, and not in front of a television.
OK.. so "our" (who the hell is "we") civilization is only supported by public school and public school alums. Private school kids need not apply. How very open and accepting.
From now on, I want you to send a check to the Christian Coalition in kind every time you donate to a cause you support. So you can feel how wonderful it is to pay for things you have NO use for personally.
Originally posted by BR
So in other words pay twice. That's crap.
Move to Zambia then.
Almost like a bribe.
Originally posted by dmz
I gotta agree with BR. It kicks my ass to not be part of the public school system and still have to PAY for the privilige of not sending my kids.
I have no kids at all. Are you going to propose a tax break or a special voucher for me? Why should I have to PAY for the privilege of sending your kids to a private school?
And it ain't that pretty at all.
Originally posted by shetline
I have no kids at all. Are you going to propose a tax break or a special voucher for me? Why should I have to PAY for the privilege of sending your kids to a private school?
That's not how vouchers work. I get a tax rebate for the amount I paid in for school taxes. You don't pay for MY kid.
I simply get to skip the plasure of pouring money into a failing system, and use that money to send my kid to a school in line with my family's values.
Originally posted by dmz
I gotta agree with BR. It kicks my ass to not be part of the public school system and still have to PAY for the privilige of not sending my kids.
That's how taxes work. It kicks my ass to know that the cost of this next year in Iraq is more than the cost of converting our entire national oil system over to a modern system that can handle natural gas and ethanol.
So it goes.