You must not've watched rush LImbaugh's television show, then. Let me take you waaaaay back to 1993, when Chelsea Clinton was twelve years old:
"Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" With that, Limbaugh held up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, then a well-liked, 12-year-old girl whose political career at the time consisted of her grade-school civics class." (source)
More later. Must work.
I think that was the exception, not the rule. But I don't condone that kind of attack at all - I think the comment was out of line. But any person in any kind of public light always gets positive and negative attention. It unfortunately goes with the territory. I did not watch Limbaugh's TV show and to be honest I really don't listen to his radio show much either - probably once a month at best if he happens to be on when I am driving. I tend to prefer Sean Hannity and Tony Snow these days.
I think that was the exception, not the rule. But I don't condone that kind of attack at all - I think the comment was out of line. But any person in any kind of public light always gets positive and negative attention. It unfortunately goes with the territory.
So you don't condone it at all while simultaneously condoning it as "going with the territory." I'm sorry, but comparing 12 year olds to dogs is not part of the territory-- it's an abusive breach of conduct that operates outside any civil political discussion-- outside even lesser expectations. We have to stop thinking crap like that is normal and perfectly acceptable and start condemning it wholesale.
So you don't condone it at all while simultaneously condoning it as "going with the territory." I'm sorry, but comparing 12 year olds to dogs is not part of the territory-- it's an abusive breach of conduct that operates outside any civil political discussion-- outside even lesser expectations. We have to stop thinking crap like that is normal and perfectly acceptable and start condemning it wholesale.
I do not simultaneously condone it as "going with the territory" as you claim. But the fact is being in the public eye prompts attacks from the left and the right and very often they are totally unwarranted as it was in this case. So stop putting words in my mouth. Limbaugh's comment was totally out of bounds and I condemn it. What you did was take my statement that people will make these kind of attacks and comments about people because that is unfortunately what happens to people who are in the public spotlight and this is a big reason why more people don't run for public office. Did I say that it was right?
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
(after a quick search of your posts) why are you even here in the first place? do you even have an apple computer?
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
Hatred? Where? People say things. Other people disagree. Welcome to AO!
(after a quick search of your posts) why are you even here in the first place? do you even have an apple computer?
I am new here and I intend to post some stuff in the Apple-related forums fairly soon. Like all of you I eagerly wait some new products. I have never owned anything but Macs. I bought my first in 1991 (when Macs finally started to be a bit more affordable - I did not have a lot of extra money back then) and have had several since then. I currently have an admittedly antiquated iMac DV SE but I am running Panther and it has been a flawless machine for me. I am considering upgrading to a Power Macintosh G5 although that might be overkill for my needs. I am kind of waiting to see what Apple plans to do for their new consumer level offerings. If the new iMac (if they continue to call them that) is a G5 that might be good enough for me. I need to upgrade soon!
I am new here and I intend to post some stuff in the Apple-related forums fairly soon. Like all of you I eagerly wait some new products. I have never owned anything but Macs. I bought my first in 1991 (when Macs finally started to be a bit more affordable - I did not have a lot of extra money back then) and have had several since then. I currently have an admittedly antiquated iMac DV SE but I am running Panther and it has been a flawless machine for me. I am considering upgrading to a Power Macintosh G5 although that might be overkill for my needs. I am kind of waiting to see what Apple plans to do for their new consumer level offerings. If the new iMac (if they continue to call them that) is a G5 that might be good enough for me. I need to upgrade soon!
I see, well, the thoughts and opinions expressed in AO in no way represent the thoughts and opinions those in the other forums.
As for upgrading, the current crop of powerbooks are quite exceptional, I upgraded to an AL15" from an iMac DVSE, amazing amount of difference in performance.
Oh yeah, I was not talking about the Pittsburgh plant, but the other jobs they have located overseas, those are factory jobs.
So you lived in Pittsburgh . . . for that my assumption was wrong . . .(notice, I did somthing that you will never ever do, admit to being wrong: its amazing to watch you carry a dead thread to endless lengths through your inability to even acknowledge the simplest mistakes, such as misatributing Midwinter's limbaugh quote . . . you don't care about anything except playing some sort of position- thread argument game . . . its embarrassing really)
now, admit this:
Quote:
I did some repair work at the heinz factory when I worked in Pittsburgh and those ARE factory jobs that are going elsewhere from heinz.
thta implies that you meant Pittsburgh Hienz factory jobs.
Then:
Quote:
Oh yeah, I was not talking about the Pittsburgh plant, but the other jobs they have located overseas, those are factory jobs.
Hmm?!?!
Seems like your welding contacts that let you in on the inner workings of the Hienz factory plant . . . but not the one in Pittsburgh . . . left you maybe a little confused . . . what plant are we talking about then?
actually never mind . . . it would merely be dragging this on some more and allowing you to say more completely irrelevant distortions that take us further from the issue . . .
I will also admit that the Kerry war thing is not as shiney-exemplar as merely getting great medals then standing up with honor for what he believed . . . as I had believed earlier.
However, I wouldn't say that his equivocation is far beyond what anyone would go through considering the level of spotlight that has been cast his direction by the Bush Mud-digging Machine and 10mil $ PR campaign, and right-wing media Subsidiary Co.
It shows that he is a politican worried about his image and trying to please a large constituency. . . and yet it is still an undeniable record . . . and attempts to attack the record itself have all been pathetic at best.
To continue the slander against him based on these re-appraisals of his own actions, 30 years later, is merely unreflective reaction to the disseminated sound bytes of the massive PR machine and its very public and charismatic leaders (Limbaugh, FOX etc)
And, if it is continued it would not reflect well on Bush, who's records are clearly far more susceptable to scrutiny.
I see, well, the thoughts and opinions expressed in AO in no way represent the thoughts and opinions those in the other forums.
As for upgrading, the current crop of powerbooks are quite exceptional, I upgraded to an AL15" from an iMac DVSE, amazing amount of difference in performance.
We are off topic obviously but I do love the new PowerBooks - they are awesome! But generally I have preferred desktop machines as I usually don't have much of a need to take my computer with me as my job does not really require me to travel and I usually don't go through internet withdrawals unless I am gone for more than a week or so - which is rare. I definitely want a larger display -I love the 17" and 20" iMac models but I wish they had G5s in them...
Anything current from Apple would be an amazing jump from my machine even though it has served me very well. It is time to retire it for now and keep it for my baby girl for when she gets older.
The problem is that a big part of the views of that war were formed as a result of the lies perpetrated by Kerry himself. These views based on lies effected a whole generation and arguably foreign policy.
That is just totally untrue. Most of the anti-war movement never even heard of Kerry. Revisionist history types may be able to confuse those of us who weren't there, but trust me, those stories came from all over. There was a movie made about the guys from the unit that committed war crimes at Mai Lai. Get it and watch it. It's a movie about convicted US war criminals, in their own words. Not one of them knew about or even mentions Kerry. I was involved in the anti-war movement for 10 years, and never even heard of Kerry. Your opinion is an outright lie, made for political reasons, and given the amount of knowledge there is about the war in Vietnam, isunforgivable in a public forum. based on it, nothing you say should be listened too. You haven't a clue what your're talking about.
When John Kerry released his military records to the public last week, Americans learned a lot about Mr. Kerry's exceptional service in Vietnam. They also learned a lot about the Republican attack machine.
The evaluations were uniformly glowing. One commander wrote that Mr. Kerry ranked among "the top few" in three categories: initiative, cooperation and personal behavior. Another commander wrote, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, Lt. j.g. Kerry was unsurpassed." The citation for Mr. Kerry's Bronze Star praises his "calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire."
In the United States military, there's no ideology ? there are no labels, Republican or Democrat ? when superiors evaluate a man or woman's service to country. Mr. Kerry's commander for a brief time, Grant Hibbard, now a Republican, gave Mr. Kerry top marks 36 years ago.
Now the standards are those of politics, not the military. Despite his positive evaluations, Mr. Hibbard recently questioned whether Mr. Kerry deserved one of his three Purple Hearts.
In the heat of a political campaign, attacks come from all directions. That's why John Kerry's military records are so compelling; they measure the man before his critics or his supporters saw him through a political lens. These military records show that John Kerry served his country with valor, and that those who served with him and above him held him in high regard. That's honor enough for any veteran.
Yet the Republican attack machine follows a pattern we've seen before, whether the target is Senator John McCain in South Carolina in 2000 or Senator Max Cleland in Georgia in 2002. The latest manifestation of these tactics is the controversy over Mr. Kerry's medals.
John Kerry was awarded three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for his service in Vietnam. In April 1971, as part of a protest against the war, he threw some ribbons over the fence of the United States Capitol.
Republicans have tried to use this event to question his patriotism and his truthfulness, claiming he has been inconsistent in saying whether he threw away his medals or ribbons. This is no more than a political smear. After risking his life in Vietnam to save others, John Kerry earned the right to speak out against a war he believed was wrong. Make no mistake: it is that bravery these Republicans are now attacking.
Although President Bush has not engaged personally in such accusations, he has done nothing to stop others from making them. I believe those who didn't serve, or didn't show up for service, should have the decency to respect those who did serve ? often under the most dangerous conditions, with bravery and, yes, with undeniable patriotism.
Wesley K. Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, was commander of NATO forces from 1997 to 2000."
A WW II vetran OK, a war hero is a bit of a stretch .. he did bail out of his plane leaving his tailgunner behind... AFAIK
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Inconsistency??? no I don't think so because IMO Kerry isn't a hero either.
IMO there are only dead heroes... those heroes that are still alive ie Bush sr and Kerry did their jobs while in the army...
Comments
Originally posted by midwinter
You must not've watched rush LImbaugh's television show, then. Let me take you waaaaay back to 1993, when Chelsea Clinton was twelve years old:
"Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" With that, Limbaugh held up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, then a well-liked, 12-year-old girl whose political career at the time consisted of her grade-school civics class." (source)
More later. Must work.
I think that was the exception, not the rule. But I don't condone that kind of attack at all - I think the comment was out of line. But any person in any kind of public light always gets positive and negative attention. It unfortunately goes with the territory. I did not watch Limbaugh's TV show and to be honest I really don't listen to his radio show much either - probably once a month at best if he happens to be on when I am driving. I tend to prefer Sean Hannity and Tony Snow these days.
Originally posted by 7E7
I think that was the exception, not the rule. But I don't condone that kind of attack at all - I think the comment was out of line. But any person in any kind of public light always gets positive and negative attention. It unfortunately goes with the territory.
So you don't condone it at all while simultaneously condoning it as "going with the territory." I'm sorry, but comparing 12 year olds to dogs is not part of the territory-- it's an abusive breach of conduct that operates outside any civil political discussion-- outside even lesser expectations. We have to stop thinking crap like that is normal and perfectly acceptable and start condemning it wholesale.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
So you don't condone it at all while simultaneously condoning it as "going with the territory." I'm sorry, but comparing 12 year olds to dogs is not part of the territory-- it's an abusive breach of conduct that operates outside any civil political discussion-- outside even lesser expectations. We have to stop thinking crap like that is normal and perfectly acceptable and start condemning it wholesale.
I do not simultaneously condone it as "going with the territory" as you claim. But the fact is being in the public eye prompts attacks from the left and the right and very often they are totally unwarranted as it was in this case. So stop putting words in my mouth. Limbaugh's comment was totally out of bounds and I condemn it. What you did was take my statement that people will make these kind of attacks and comments about people because that is unfortunately what happens to people who are in the public spotlight and this is a big reason why more people don't run for public office. Did I say that it was right?
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
Originally posted by 7E7
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
(after a quick search of your posts) why are you even here in the first place? do you even have an apple computer?
Originally posted by 7E7
Good god people! The line of reasoning that goes on in this forum makes me not want to come back. Quite a few of you really ought to consider getting some help. The amount of pure vile hatred people display towards people who come in here with different points of view can only be characterized as being decidedly unhealthy.
Hatred? Where? People say things. Other people disagree. Welcome to AO!
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
(after a quick search of your posts) why are you even here in the first place? do you even have an apple computer?
I am new here and I intend to post some stuff in the Apple-related forums fairly soon. Like all of you I eagerly wait some new products. I have never owned anything but Macs. I bought my first in 1991 (when Macs finally started to be a bit more affordable - I did not have a lot of extra money back then) and have had several since then. I currently have an admittedly antiquated iMac DV SE but I am running Panther and it has been a flawless machine for me. I am considering upgrading to a Power Macintosh G5 although that might be overkill for my needs. I am kind of waiting to see what Apple plans to do for their new consumer level offerings. If the new iMac (if they continue to call them that) is a G5 that might be good enough for me. I need to upgrade soon!
Originally posted by 7E7
I am new here and I intend to post some stuff in the Apple-related forums fairly soon. Like all of you I eagerly wait some new products. I have never owned anything but Macs. I bought my first in 1991 (when Macs finally started to be a bit more affordable - I did not have a lot of extra money back then) and have had several since then. I currently have an admittedly antiquated iMac DV SE but I am running Panther and it has been a flawless machine for me. I am considering upgrading to a Power Macintosh G5 although that might be overkill for my needs. I am kind of waiting to see what Apple plans to do for their new consumer level offerings. If the new iMac (if they continue to call them that) is a G5 that might be good enough for me. I need to upgrade soon!
I see, well, the thoughts and opinions expressed in AO in no way represent the thoughts and opinions those in the other forums.
As for upgrading, the current crop of powerbooks are quite exceptional, I upgraded to an AL15" from an iMac DVSE, amazing amount of difference in performance.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Oh yeah, I was not talking about the Pittsburgh plant, but the other jobs they have located overseas, those are factory jobs.
So you lived in Pittsburgh . . . for that my assumption was wrong . . .(notice, I did somthing that you will never ever do, admit to being wrong: its amazing to watch you carry a dead thread to endless lengths through your inability to even acknowledge the simplest mistakes, such as misatributing Midwinter's limbaugh quote . . . you don't care about anything except playing some sort of position- thread argument game . . . its embarrassing really)
now, admit this:
I did some repair work at the heinz factory when I worked in Pittsburgh and those ARE factory jobs that are going elsewhere from heinz.
thta implies that you meant Pittsburgh Hienz factory jobs.
Then:
Oh yeah, I was not talking about the Pittsburgh plant, but the other jobs they have located overseas, those are factory jobs.
Hmm?!?!
Seems like your welding contacts that let you in on the inner workings of the Hienz factory plant . . . but not the one in Pittsburgh . . . left you maybe a little confused . . . what plant are we talking about then?
actually never mind . . . it would merely be dragging this on some more and allowing you to say more completely irrelevant distortions that take us further from the issue . . .
I will also admit that the Kerry war thing is not as shiney-exemplar as merely getting great medals then standing up with honor for what he believed . . . as I had believed earlier.
However, I wouldn't say that his equivocation is far beyond what anyone would go through considering the level of spotlight that has been cast his direction by the Bush Mud-digging Machine and 10mil $ PR campaign, and right-wing media Subsidiary Co.
It shows that he is a politican worried about his image and trying to please a large constituency. . . and yet it is still an undeniable record . . . and attempts to attack the record itself have all been pathetic at best.
To continue the slander against him based on these re-appraisals of his own actions, 30 years later, is merely unreflective reaction to the disseminated sound bytes of the massive PR machine and its very public and charismatic leaders (Limbaugh, FOX etc)
And, if it is continued it would not reflect well on Bush, who's records are clearly far more susceptable to scrutiny.
Please mods, please feel free to lock my thread, the kids are peeing all over the walls and eating the crayons. And it was such a good topic.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
I see, well, the thoughts and opinions expressed in AO in no way represent the thoughts and opinions those in the other forums.
As for upgrading, the current crop of powerbooks are quite exceptional, I upgraded to an AL15" from an iMac DVSE, amazing amount of difference in performance.
We are off topic obviously but I do love the new PowerBooks - they are awesome! But generally I have preferred desktop machines as I usually don't have much of a need to take my computer with me as my job does not really require me to travel and I usually don't go through internet withdrawals unless I am gone for more than a week or so - which is rare. I definitely want a larger display -I love the 17" and 20" iMac models but I wish they had G5s in them...
Anything current from Apple would be an amazing jump from my machine even though it has served me very well. It is time to retire it for now and keep it for my baby girl for when she gets older.
The problem is that a big part of the views of that war were formed as a result of the lies perpetrated by Kerry himself. These views based on lies effected a whole generation and arguably foreign policy.
That is just totally untrue. Most of the anti-war movement never even heard of Kerry. Revisionist history types may be able to confuse those of us who weren't there, but trust me, those stories came from all over. There was a movie made about the guys from the unit that committed war crimes at Mai Lai. Get it and watch it. It's a movie about convicted US war criminals, in their own words. Not one of them knew about or even mentions Kerry. I was involved in the anti-war movement for 10 years, and never even heard of Kerry. Your opinion is an outright lie, made for political reasons, and given the amount of knowledge there is about the war in Vietnam, isunforgivable in a public forum. based on it, nothing you say should be listened too. You haven't a clue what your're talking about.
"Medals of Honor
By WESLEY K. CLARK
When John Kerry released his military records to the public last week, Americans learned a lot about Mr. Kerry's exceptional service in Vietnam. They also learned a lot about the Republican attack machine.
The evaluations were uniformly glowing. One commander wrote that Mr. Kerry ranked among "the top few" in three categories: initiative, cooperation and personal behavior. Another commander wrote, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, Lt. j.g. Kerry was unsurpassed." The citation for Mr. Kerry's Bronze Star praises his "calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire."
In the United States military, there's no ideology ? there are no labels, Republican or Democrat ? when superiors evaluate a man or woman's service to country. Mr. Kerry's commander for a brief time, Grant Hibbard, now a Republican, gave Mr. Kerry top marks 36 years ago.
Now the standards are those of politics, not the military. Despite his positive evaluations, Mr. Hibbard recently questioned whether Mr. Kerry deserved one of his three Purple Hearts.
In the heat of a political campaign, attacks come from all directions. That's why John Kerry's military records are so compelling; they measure the man before his critics or his supporters saw him through a political lens. These military records show that John Kerry served his country with valor, and that those who served with him and above him held him in high regard. That's honor enough for any veteran.
Yet the Republican attack machine follows a pattern we've seen before, whether the target is Senator John McCain in South Carolina in 2000 or Senator Max Cleland in Georgia in 2002. The latest manifestation of these tactics is the controversy over Mr. Kerry's medals.
John Kerry was awarded three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for his service in Vietnam. In April 1971, as part of a protest against the war, he threw some ribbons over the fence of the United States Capitol.
Republicans have tried to use this event to question his patriotism and his truthfulness, claiming he has been inconsistent in saying whether he threw away his medals or ribbons. This is no more than a political smear. After risking his life in Vietnam to save others, John Kerry earned the right to speak out against a war he believed was wrong. Make no mistake: it is that bravery these Republicans are now attacking.
Although President Bush has not engaged personally in such accusations, he has done nothing to stop others from making them. I believe those who didn't serve, or didn't show up for service, should have the decency to respect those who did serve ? often under the most dangerous conditions, with bravery and, yes, with undeniable patriotism.
Wesley K. Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, was commander of NATO forces from 1997 to 2000."
Especially the last part Stewart
Originally posted by tonton
That's a really dumb question. The last president with combat experience was Bush Sr.
Indeed. And so far as I can tell, Bush, Sr. is a bona-fide war hero.
Originally posted by midwinter
Indeed. And so far as I can tell, Bush, Sr. is a bona-fide war hero.
Originally posted by ericg
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Originally posted by 7E7
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
hey . . . I didn't say anything.
Originally posted by 7E7
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Grasping at straws, dude. Don't even go there.
Originally posted by 7E7
Do I note an inconsistency here? Kerry wins several awards for his service in Vietnam and he is a hero and anybody who questions his status as such is unpatriotic, disgusting and any other word you want to throw in here. George H.W. Bush serves in WW II winning among other medals the DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS and you say his status as war hero is a bit of a stretch?
Inconsistency??? no I don't think so because IMO Kerry isn't a hero either.
IMO there are only dead heroes... those heroes that are still alive ie Bush sr and Kerry did their jobs while in the army...
Originally posted by ericg
Inconsistency??? no I don't think so because IMO Kerry isn't a hero either.
IMO there are only dead heroes... those heroes that are still alive ie Bush sr and Kerry did their jobs while in the army...
You mean you like martyrdom?!