quote:Excuse me??? OS X is one of the most stable things on the market. I doubt your issue with those programs has to do with the OS.
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
BuonRotto
Click and hold on the System Peferences Dock icon.
Thanks for the tip. I hate using the dock, running programs stay in X-Assist like in OS9 under the application menu.
SledgeHammer
The items in the status bar (right side of the menu bar) are black and white on purpose. There's no color up there to distract the eye. The only color that shows up in any standard status bar icon is when the battery is low and the icon turns red. No color then suddenly RED draws your attention effectively to something that requires your attention, otherwise, the status bar should be unobtrusive (something it would not be with a lot of color)
I don't think so. There has been color up there since system 7. On my OS9 work machine, I see a blue clock, a black calendar, a red ATI control panel, and a yellow icab icon. I should be able to colorize the menubar if I want to. OSX designers got lazy on the right side. They managed a blue apple on the left side. This isn't 1970's unix, monitors can display more than 2 colors now. Just make it an option and we'll both be happy.
What if you only want to close one window from the program? how do you do that without losing everything you have open?
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
I use prefling for this, but you're right, it would be nice for it to be built into system preferences (ps, what does this have to do with Mac/Windows?)
Before OSX, you could select control panels directly, without opening up the control panels folder. In windows, this was only possible in ME. 95, 98, 2000, and XP force you to open the whole folder before you can pick the control panel you want. It is a pain in the ass and a waste of time.
HOM & a_greer
I use Fruit Menu, and I can close ANY window in the dock by right clicking, not just Finder windows. I can also get a contexual menu.
2 mouse buttons are better than one, but if you glue your keyboard on your mouse you can have 102!
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
You have *GOT* to be kidding.
Seriously.
OS X is, bar none, the most stable OS I've ever used for everyday use, and that includes WinNT, WinXP, SGI/IRIX, HP/UX, AIX, A/UX, NeXT, MacOS up through 9 and Classic (yes, from 1984 on), Linux... nothing else compares in my book.
There's simply something wrong with your system, either software or hardware. Period. I think we'd be glad to help you troubleshoot it (and my guess is hardware), but there is something wrong with your system, not MacOS X.
Quote:
I don't think so. There has been color up there since system 7. On my OS9 work machine, I see a blue clock, a black calendar, a red ATI control panel, and a yellow icab icon. I should be able to colorize the menubar if I want to. OSX designers got lazy on the right side. They managed a blue apple on the left side. This isn't 1970's unix, monitors can display more than 2 colors now. Just make it an option and we'll both be happy.
Errrr.... sure.
This isn't 9. The use of color in 9 was... poor. Color should be used to draw the eye to important things, not just for corporate logo placement. A good icon doesn't need color to represent what it needs to. Splashy icons with garish colors are just laziness or brand marketing.
Color should be used to indicate to the user 'this is something you need to look at' or 'this is where your attention should be focussed for a moment', etc. I dislike the red/yellow/green in the title bar, for goodness' sake, and prefer the graphite theme.
Quote:
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
Why do you care if it's still running?
In 9, you *HAD* to because the memory management was so piss poor. In, OS X, unless it's an app that is supposed to be doing something in the background, or is poorly written, the total drain on your system is zero.
Worrying over whether an app is still running is old style 9 thinking.
Seems like a pattern... \
Frankly, if I had to worry about whether or not closing a window was the last one or not, and maybe, but not always, it might cause the app to quit, I'd go insane. That's just... ludicrous.
Besides, what app under 9 did this? I certainly don't remember this as a normal behaviour. Then again, maybe I blocked the memory from the pain...
You like the new way, I prefer the old. We should have a choice. If they won't offer us a way to use our preferred workflow with OSX, the 60% not using it won't ever start to, not that it really matters...
If you want to stay with the old, delete OS X and stick with ur stable secure and color-creative OS 9.
I prefer OS X with its superiority in almost every area over OS 9, but if you think that OS 9 rocks, then go with it. Just don't accuse the people who are happy with OS X.
BTW, I dont believe it is 60% of the market do not use macs.
quote:Excuse me??? OS X is one of the most stable things on the market. I doubt your issue with those programs has to do with the OS.
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
It might be that you've built up a wobbly bunch of hacks, too, or that you're running crap.
OS X is so much more stable than OS 9 that it's not even funny. You have to get used to the way it works, but that doesn't take long. It's still a Mac.
Quote:
Thanks for the tip. I hate using the dock, running programs stay in X-Assist like in OS9 under the application menu.
This is part of the problem, though: If you run around disabling central parts of the OS X interface, you can't really complain when you notice that important bits of the interface are missing, can you?
Quote:
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
Hogwash. Every document-based application in MacOS, ever, left the application running after the last window was closed. You show me one that didn't (I can't think of any), and I'll show you an app that broke the Mac look and feel.
I've used Macs myself since 1986. It has always been true that a document-based application stayed open until Quit, and in that respect OS X honors the Macintosh way of doing things. You're thinking of Windows. Or maybe you're thinking of little desk-accessory-type things like Calculator and CD Player.
You like the new way, I prefer the old. We should have a choice.
You do. Run 9, and it sounds like you'll be much happier. No one forces you to run X if you don't like it.
Quote:
If they won't offer us a way to use our preferred workflow with OSX, the 60% not using it won't ever start to, not that it really matters...
You're right, it doesn't matter.
Should they make it just like Windows, to attract that much larger market? Hell, no.
Likewise, there was *plenty* of cruft in 9 that I'm glad is gone gone gone - and I'm a Mac user since '84.
There are rough edges in X, absolutely - but stability? App-closing-on-last-window-closed? Psychedelic use of color? Methinks you're smoking something illicit.
Make an alias to /System/Library/Components/KeyboardViewer.component/Contents/SharedSupport/KeyboardViewerServer.app and put it anywhere you want. Done.
WOW, why didn't you tell me earlier? (well, i know, sj hates me, and told you to let me in the dark)
Should they make it just like Windows, to attract that much larger market? Hell, no.
Likewise, there was *plenty* of cruft in 9 that I'm glad is gone gone gone - and I'm a Mac user since '84.
I just find it hard to believe that there are still people out there who want OS X to behave and act like OS 9. Really, it doesn't take that much effort to make the switch from Platium to Aqua. I myself was amazed at how easy it was for me despite the fact that I thought I'd be relearned the UI all over again. All you really need is an open mind (okay, so maybe it does take a lot of effort).
A consumer and a pro one. Consumer: something like it is now. Pro: more grey, darker, less eye candy and maybe some extra file view options.
Oh, and Finder/OS stability. I get hard crashes (OS freeze) once or twice a week. The app should crash, not the whole OS.
Yeah. Lately my Finder has been crashing... but maybe that's because of my uptime and/or free memory. I've gotta check that out.
As far as a feature request is concerned I'd like to see iChat updated so it can solo audio chat with the Windows AIM versions as well as the older AIM 4.3 for Mac OS 8.6 and below. I know it's already been said but I'd like to have that option as well. I'd like to see people on my buddy list, iChat or not, appear with either icon, the Cam icon or the Phone icon. I hoped when iChat 2.1 came out that it would have been included... I really hope iChat 2.5 or 3.0 or whatever version releases with 10.4 has this option built in. I'm really excited about this year's WWDC. I'm hoping for the best.
Well, off top of my head just a view simple things:
1) systemwide ability to drag and drop content from where ever you are into a docked folder. That would satisfy me.
2) once an' forever - keep any given app open until you tell that particular app to quit. and no, i don't want to hear anything about that distinction between single wind. app and multi wind. app. i don't buy that stuff, it feels lame. either this way or that way, no messy mixtures with stupid ex-bloody-cuses! you always should predict whats gonna happen next, no? quit means quit an' hide means hide, no? (well an' "no means no", oh well, i have to visit that music thread soon again)
3) at least one more curser, which would give you visual feedback regarding enlarging windows and such, no? (Btw, to fix all curser related issues would be a good point to start.)
4) perhaps some sort of mouse moving intelligents. I mean Macos X should recognize, if someone wants to enlarge a window or merely touch the dock, no?
5) maybe different themes, but that is not that urgent to me.
yet all in all i am pretty much satisfied with panther, best consumer (and pro) os available.
today (well, once in a while) i had to deal with wind. xp. This os looks ugly, feels ugly and behaves ugly, ...
Comments
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Click and hold on the System Peferences Dock icon.
That only works if system preferences is already open. Prefling allows you to select which pane you want before the application is open.
quote:Excuse me??? OS X is one of the most stable things on the market. I doubt your issue with those programs has to do with the OS.
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
BuonRotto
Click and hold on the System Peferences Dock icon.
Thanks for the tip. I hate using the dock, running programs stay in X-Assist like in OS9 under the application menu.
SledgeHammer
The items in the status bar (right side of the menu bar) are black and white on purpose. There's no color up there to distract the eye. The only color that shows up in any standard status bar icon is when the battery is low and the icon turns red. No color then suddenly RED draws your attention effectively to something that requires your attention, otherwise, the status bar should be unobtrusive (something it would not be with a lot of color)
I don't think so. There has been color up there since system 7. On my OS9 work machine, I see a blue clock, a black calendar, a red ATI control panel, and a yellow icab icon. I should be able to colorize the menubar if I want to. OSX designers got lazy on the right side. They managed a blue apple on the left side. This isn't 1970's unix, monitors can display more than 2 colors now. Just make it an option and we'll both be happy.
What if you only want to close one window from the program? how do you do that without losing everything you have open?
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
I use prefling for this, but you're right, it would be nice for it to be built into system preferences (ps, what does this have to do with Mac/Windows?)
Before OSX, you could select control panels directly, without opening up the control panels folder. In windows, this was only possible in ME. 95, 98, 2000, and XP force you to open the whole folder before you can pick the control panel you want. It is a pain in the ass and a waste of time.
HOM & a_greer
I use Fruit Menu, and I can close ANY window in the dock by right clicking, not just Finder windows. I can also get a contexual menu.
2 mouse buttons are better than one, but if you glue your keyboard on your mouse you can have 102!
Originally posted by guest
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
You have *GOT* to be kidding.
Seriously.
OS X is, bar none, the most stable OS I've ever used for everyday use, and that includes WinNT, WinXP, SGI/IRIX, HP/UX, AIX, A/UX, NeXT, MacOS up through 9 and Classic (yes, from 1984 on), Linux... nothing else compares in my book.
There's simply something wrong with your system, either software or hardware. Period. I think we'd be glad to help you troubleshoot it (and my guess is hardware), but there is something wrong with your system, not MacOS X.
I don't think so. There has been color up there since system 7. On my OS9 work machine, I see a blue clock, a black calendar, a red ATI control panel, and a yellow icab icon. I should be able to colorize the menubar if I want to. OSX designers got lazy on the right side. They managed a blue apple on the left side. This isn't 1970's unix, monitors can display more than 2 colors now. Just make it an option and we'll both be happy.
Errrr.... sure.
This isn't 9. The use of color in 9 was... poor. Color should be used to draw the eye to important things, not just for corporate logo placement. A good icon doesn't need color to represent what it needs to. Splashy icons with garish colors are just laziness or brand marketing.
Color should be used to indicate to the user 'this is something you need to look at' or 'this is where your attention should be focussed for a moment', etc. I dislike the red/yellow/green in the title bar, for goodness' sake, and prefer the graphite theme.
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
Why do you care if it's still running?
In 9, you *HAD* to because the memory management was so piss poor. In, OS X, unless it's an app that is supposed to be doing something in the background, or is poorly written, the total drain on your system is zero.
Worrying over whether an app is still running is old style 9 thinking.
Seems like a pattern...
Frankly, if I had to worry about whether or not closing a window was the last one or not, and maybe, but not always, it might cause the app to quit, I'd go insane. That's just... ludicrous.
Besides, what app under 9 did this? I certainly don't remember this as a normal behaviour. Then again, maybe I blocked the memory from the pain...
blah, blah, blah
Whatever
You like the new way, I prefer the old. We should have a choice. If they won't offer us a way to use our preferred workflow with OSX, the 60% not using it won't ever start to, not that it really matters...
I prefer OS X with its superiority in almost every area over OS 9, but if you think that OS 9 rocks, then go with it. Just don't accuse the people who are happy with OS X.
BTW, I dont believe it is 60% of the market do not use macs.
Originally posted by guest
ipodandimac
quote:Excuse me??? OS X is one of the most stable things on the market. I doubt your issue with those programs has to do with the OS.
Stable versus what, winblows XP? OSX isn't close to the stability I get with OS9. If itunes is playing music and I launch a card game I usually get a hard crash (Solitare Forever or Freecell). Never happens in OS9. Yes, I now have to boot into 9 to play them, but I shouldn't have to! OSX stability still needs work. Maybe OSX hates me because I started out on System 1.
It might be that you've built up a wobbly bunch of hacks, too, or that you're running crap.
OS X is so much more stable than OS 9 that it's not even funny. You have to get used to the way it works, but that doesn't take long. It's still a Mac.
Thanks for the tip. I hate using the dock, running programs stay in X-Assist like in OS9 under the application menu.
This is part of the problem, though: If you run around disabling central parts of the OS X interface, you can't really complain when you notice that important bits of the interface are missing, can you?
It should work like it did before OSX, where you could close windows until you had 1 left, then closing that one quit the program. The way it works now, I have to go check the hidden dock to see if the program I thought I quit is still running. Lame.
Hogwash. Every document-based application in MacOS, ever, left the application running after the last window was closed. You show me one that didn't (I can't think of any), and I'll show you an app that broke the Mac look and feel.
I've used Macs myself since 1986. It has always been true that a document-based application stayed open until Quit, and in that respect OS X honors the Macintosh way of doing things. You're thinking of Windows. Or maybe you're thinking of little desk-accessory-type things like Calculator and CD Player.
Expect services to be merged with ADD
You know something I don't? I haven't heard about any movement on Services. For all I know they could be abandoning them.
They would definitely need to become context sensitive, because as they are now, a contextual menu with Services in them would be huge.
Originally posted by guest
Kickaha
blah, blah, blah
Whatever
You like the new way, I prefer the old. We should have a choice.
You do. Run 9, and it sounds like you'll be much happier. No one forces you to run X if you don't like it.
If they won't offer us a way to use our preferred workflow with OSX, the 60% not using it won't ever start to, not that it really matters...
You're right, it doesn't matter.
Should they make it just like Windows, to attract that much larger market? Hell, no.
Likewise, there was *plenty* of cruft in 9 that I'm glad is gone gone gone - and I'm a Mac user since '84.
There are rough edges in X, absolutely - but stability? App-closing-on-last-window-closed? Psychedelic use of color? Methinks you're smoking something illicit.
Originally posted by intastella
You know something I don't? I haven't heard about any movement on Services. For all I know they could be abandoning them.
They would definitely need to become context sensitive, because as they are now, a contextual menu with Services in them would be huge.
Well, you could go grab Deja Menu, I have this funny feeling it could be modified to *only* show the Services menu...
Must investigate...
Originally posted by intastella
They would definitely need to become context sensitive, because as they are now, a contextual menu with Services in them would be huge.
Well, as I mentioned before... one can't recommend IceCoffee enough.
You can also choose off to turn Services that you never use, so they don't clutter up the menu.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I like the looks of it - wary of APE though. Any feedback on that portion of it?
I know that a handful of people on these boards have reported bad experiences with APE, but happily I'm not one of them.
I've been using APE for IceCoffee and ClearDock since 10.2, with no problems I can see. OS X is extremely stable, and everything works well.
If you use Services a fair amount, IceCoffee is so good and so useful IMO it's definitely worth braving APE.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Make an alias to /System/Library/Components/KeyboardViewer.component/Contents/SharedSupport/KeyboardViewerServer.app and put it anywhere you want. Done.
WOW, why didn't you tell me earlier? (well, i know, sj hates me, and told you to let me in the dark)
Clean-up, arrange by etc, in contextual menu.
Gesture (like Motion, but customisable) activated applescripts. e.g. You could draw an @ symbol with your Wacom pen, to open Mail.
Originally posted by a_greer
...The mouse is the only drawback that many pc-users have about mac, ...
yeah, the mouse...
Originally posted by Kickaha
Should they make it just like Windows, to attract that much larger market? Hell, no.
Likewise, there was *plenty* of cruft in 9 that I'm glad is gone gone gone - and I'm a Mac user since '84.
I just find it hard to believe that there are still people out there who want OS X to behave and act like OS 9. Really, it doesn't take that much effort to make the switch from Platium to Aqua. I myself was amazed at how easy it was for me despite the fact that I thought I'd be relearned the UI all over again. All you really need is an open mind (okay, so maybe it does take a lot of effort).
A consumer and a pro one. Consumer: something like it is now. Pro: more grey, darker, less eye candy and maybe some extra file view options.
Oh, and Finder/OS stability. I get hard crashes (OS freeze) once or twice a week. The app should crash, not the whole OS.
Originally posted by BigBlue
Over and over again: two switchable appearances.
A consumer and a pro one. Consumer: something like it is now. Pro: more grey, darker, less eye candy and maybe some extra file view options.
Oh, and Finder/OS stability. I get hard crashes (OS freeze) once or twice a week. The app should crash, not the whole OS.
Yeah. Lately my Finder has been crashing... but maybe that's because of my uptime and/or free memory. I've gotta check that out.
As far as a feature request is concerned I'd like to see iChat updated so it can solo audio chat with the Windows AIM versions as well as the older AIM 4.3 for Mac OS 8.6 and below. I know it's already been said but I'd like to have that option as well. I'd like to see people on my buddy list, iChat or not, appear with either icon, the Cam icon or the Phone icon. I hoped when iChat 2.1 came out that it would have been included... I really hope iChat 2.5 or 3.0 or whatever version releases with 10.4 has this option built in. I'm really excited about this year's WWDC. I'm hoping for the best.
1) systemwide ability to drag and drop content from where ever you are into a docked folder. That would satisfy me.
2) once an' forever - keep any given app open until you tell that particular app to quit. and no, i don't want to hear anything about that distinction between single wind. app and multi wind. app. i don't buy that stuff, it feels lame. either this way or that way, no messy mixtures with stupid ex-bloody-cuses! you always should predict whats gonna happen next, no? quit means quit an' hide means hide, no? (well an' "no means no", oh well, i have to visit that music thread soon again
3) at least one more curser, which would give you visual feedback regarding enlarging windows and such, no? (Btw, to fix all curser related issues would be a good point to start.)
4) perhaps some sort of mouse moving intelligents. I mean Macos X should recognize, if someone wants to enlarge a window or merely touch the dock, no?
5) maybe different themes, but that is not that urgent to me.
yet all in all i am pretty much satisfied with panther, best consumer (and pro
today (well, once in a while) i had to deal with wind. xp. This os looks ugly, feels ugly and behaves ugly, ...
best
I do a lot of FTP and to be able to get and put like I was copying between any other two Finder windows would make me such a happy person.