The others are either also from this site or culled from similar fetish sites.
Again, they are staged, fake-rape porn. It is a specific genre of porn. The grittier the video and zero-production value, the more real it seems, i.e. the "better" it is.
--
Now, if you want to argue that the sad commentary of 1. rape, 2. soldiers raping and 3 iraqi women being raped by soldiers being erotic fetishes people seem to have (enough to warrant a pay site) we can start another thread.
But my point is don't believe everything you see as being real on the internet.
Yes, I believe the current U.S. torture stills from 60 Minutes are real. But Albasrah and similar conspiracy/propaganda sites just further degrade our ability to argue real problems by injecting lies into the facts.
Similar things are being done all the time with regards to civilian deaths, birth defects and searching/arresting/detaining civilians. Pictures are presented with no context and juxtaposed in ways to present a one sided argument.
Debunking these has -nothing- to do with my stance on any issue, one way or another, by the way.
I find this kind of deliberate tampering with facts to be as reprehensible as whatever crimes they allege to depict. And no, just because the U.S. government spins, lies, alters, hides facts doesn't make it right for others to do, especially if they are trying to garner support. You fight lies with truth, not more lies.
Originally posted by johnq The "kid" is Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade which oversees all the U.S. detention centers in Iraq.
I wonder if we will have one of the TeeVee networks announce, any minute now, a mini-series on her, as was done on heroine Jessica?
Albasrah.net is making a bad situation worse via disinformation. They do so elsewhere with shoddy "jounalistic" (if I dare use the word for that blatant propaganda site) practices of showing pictures with no context or incorrect context. [/B]
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
But I don't think that, in the scheme of things, the answer really matters, because in less than a couple of months the coalition forces will pull out, having, after careful planning, accomplished what they set out to do, and thus the world will be a safer place, and nations everywhere will be very grateful.
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
Ah, the predicted "the U.S. military/media/government did it first" argument has arrived.
I still say that there is probably ample true evidence of U.S. military injustices/crimes/atrocities without fabricating any.
The Albasrah page is intentionally designed to enrage Muslims over and above the already volatile true pictures from 60 minutes. At least they could say that "look at how Americans delight in pornographic simulations of Iraqi women being victimized" and certainly that can stand by itself as outrageous, instead of suggesting (via juxtapositioning), that they are real rape photos.
Why lie? Merely because your enemy does? Sad.
There is the slightest chance that Albasrah didn't know they were fakes. They skirted around actually saying anything about them merely that they got them via email. I hesitate to defend them, but that is a possibility.
I wonder if we will have one of the TeeVee networks announce, any minute now, a mini-series on her, as was done on heroine Jessica?
- T. I.
I've been corrected that that woman in the 60 minute pictures is not Brigadier General Janice Karpinski. The boyish woman in the pics is some other woman. I apologize for the apparent misreading.
But your point remains valid, regardless of the woman.
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started...
You see, I wonder why you, the Americans at large, let them get away with it in the first place? Where are your critical facilities?
Just look how long it's taken before you/the media woke up to the fact that it may in fact be unconstitutional not to be allowed to show the coffins arriving back home. I can't think of any other nation apart from the ones ruled by dictators where it would have been possible to be gagged in such a way (to preserve the dignity of the soldiers... yeah sure) by "the adminstration". And yet, everyone swallows it.
Part of the problem is of course that in the eyes of too many Americans, like 90% I'd say, the President is revered as God on Earth and *has* to be supported no matter what, which is, of course, very unhealthy. Now combine that with an exaggerated national pride, and you have a problem.
I was in the U.K. when Bush's poodle Bliar, was elected. Now just about everyone in the country, including about 80% of the media were in favour of him becoming Prime Minister. It was, in fact, time for a regime change. Hmmm, that rings a bell... And duly elected he was. Now did the media start crawling up his backside straight away? No. There is, by tradition, something of a month's honeymoon period, and then, if neccessary, the knives will come out. Which they duly did. Very healthy that because that way issues surface.
I don't know or care what americandaily.com's agendas might be, if any, but there is an article that I Googled on their site regarding the sexinwar.com rape fantasy site mistakenly being taken as truth in various places.
I have seen those porn shots before also. But it doesn't refute what 60 minutes obtained and reported.
But now it seems that in Britain they are doubting their photos...BBC ...
"However the BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams says sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment believe many aspects of the photographs are extremely suspicious.
He says they believe the pictures may not have been taken in Iraq.
- They believe the rifle is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.
- They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.
- They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq.
Mr Blair said if there had been any abuse it was "exceptional", and should not detract from the good work being done by UK armed forces in Iraq.
However he stressed if the photos were genuine it was totally unacceptable.
"We went to Iraq to get rid of that sort of thing, not to do it," he added."
Has Britain's spin-cycle started?
I don't know how our Administration is going to explain/spin-off any of 60 Minutes report away. And a lot of the Middle East who hasn't doubted or hated us before...sure as Hell do now.
I have seen those porn shots before also. But it doesn't refute what 60 minutes obtained and reported.
I in no way whatsoever implied or said that the 60 minutes photos were not real. I'm repeating that regardless as to whether or not you meant to suggest that.
People seem to only skim threads and seldom read the full context.
I insist that muddying the issue by using fakes amongst the real photos only causes more harm than good.
I urge nothing more than patience before jumping to the gun and believing everything you see the first time you see it, be it Pentagon , Bush admin, or Al Qaeda or Iraqi Information Ministry or Sadr or anyone else.
It is far too easy to fake things. Doing so only distracts resources away from true incidents of abuse, which are real and are waiting to be exposed, and more importantly believed. If people become jaded with fakes, it HURTS the real cases of abuse.
Facts are better---I'd look to see if the pics of the stacked bodies are for real. [/B]
Yes, they are real, and depict real soldiers with real names who are really under arrest and facing charges. Have you even read any of the news reports, or just the headlines?
Quote:
The photographs tell it all. In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling.
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
That's because 16-24 are not photos of real rape but simulated rape PORN.
That's what I figured. Many articles mentioned them and it concerned me because I didn't think they were real.
However, I've also heard there are photos of women prisoners forced to simulated or take part in sex acts on male prisoners, but have not been able to find them.
Comments
Another article. This seems to be getting worse.
After a thorough Google, I found this site:
(Warning: Uncensored porn images)
http://www.sexinwar.com/bac516/13/t_index.html
http://www.sexinwar.com/bac516/13/t_tour.html
The woman in Albasrah picture 16 (and others) is the same woman in:
http://www.sexinwar.com/bac516/13/images/t_11.jpg
as is the camo of the "soldiers".
The others are either also from this site or culled from similar fetish sites.
Again, they are staged, fake-rape porn. It is a specific genre of porn. The grittier the video and zero-production value, the more real it seems, i.e. the "better" it is.
--
Now, if you want to argue that the sad commentary of 1. rape, 2. soldiers raping and 3 iraqi women being raped by soldiers being erotic fetishes people seem to have (enough to warrant a pay site) we can start another thread.
But my point is don't believe everything you see as being real on the internet.
Yes, I believe the current U.S. torture stills from 60 Minutes are real. But Albasrah and similar conspiracy/propaganda sites just further degrade our ability to argue real problems by injecting lies into the facts.
Similar things are being done all the time with regards to civilian deaths, birth defects and searching/arresting/detaining civilians. Pictures are presented with no context and juxtaposed in ways to present a one sided argument.
Debunking these has -nothing- to do with my stance on any issue, one way or another, by the way.
I find this kind of deliberate tampering with facts to be as reprehensible as whatever crimes they allege to depict. And no, just because the U.S. government spins, lies, alters, hides facts doesn't make it right for others to do, especially if they are trying to garner support. You fight lies with truth, not more lies.
Originally posted by Beige_G3
If I check out those links johnq , IT security will be at my door
Ok, for those in a similar situation:
(I mosaic'd the porn site's image)
Left is the albasrah page, right is the porn site page.
Originally posted by johnq The "kid" is Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade which oversees all the U.S. detention centers in Iraq.
I wonder if we will have one of the TeeVee networks announce, any minute now, a mini-series on her, as was done on heroine Jessica?
- T. I.
Albasrah.net is making a bad situation worse via disinformation. They do so elsewhere with shoddy "jounalistic" (if I dare use the word for that blatant propaganda site) practices of showing pictures with no context or incorrect context. [/B]
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
Originally posted by giant
Anyway, the big issues are:
. How it is perceived in the arab world
Now that is an interesting question...
But I don't think that, in the scheme of things, the answer really matters, because in less than a couple of months the coalition forces will pull out, having, after careful planning, accomplished what they set out to do, and thus the world will be a safer place, and nations everywhere will be very grateful.
- T. I.
Originally posted by sammi jo
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
Ah, the predicted "the U.S. military/media/government did it first" argument has arrived.
I still say that there is probably ample true evidence of U.S. military injustices/crimes/atrocities without fabricating any.
The Albasrah page is intentionally designed to enrage Muslims over and above the already volatile true pictures from 60 minutes. At least they could say that "look at how Americans delight in pornographic simulations of Iraqi women being victimized" and certainly that can stand by itself as outrageous, instead of suggesting (via juxtapositioning), that they are real rape photos.
Why lie? Merely because your enemy does? Sad.
There is the slightest chance that Albasrah didn't know they were fakes. They skirted around actually saying anything about them merely that they got them via email. I hesitate to defend them, but that is a possibility.
Originally posted by The Installer
I wonder if we will have one of the TeeVee networks announce, any minute now, a mini-series on her, as was done on heroine Jessica?
- T. I.
I've been corrected that that woman in the 60 minute pictures is not Brigadier General Janice Karpinski. The boyish woman in the pics is some other woman. I apologize for the apparent misreading.
But your point remains valid, regardless of the woman.
Originally posted by sammi jo
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started...
You see, I wonder why you, the Americans at large, let them get away with it in the first place? Where are your critical facilities?
Just look how long it's taken before you/the media woke up to the fact that it may in fact be unconstitutional not to be allowed to show the coffins arriving back home. I can't think of any other nation apart from the ones ruled by dictators where it would have been possible to be gagged in such a way (to preserve the dignity of the soldiers... yeah sure) by "the adminstration". And yet, everyone swallows it.
Part of the problem is of course that in the eyes of too many Americans, like 90% I'd say, the President is revered as God on Earth and *has* to be supported no matter what, which is, of course, very unhealthy. Now combine that with an exaggerated national pride, and you have a problem.
I was in the U.K. when Bush's poodle Bliar, was elected. Now just about everyone in the country, including about 80% of the media were in favour of him becoming Prime Minister. It was, in fact, time for a regime change. Hmmm, that rings a bell... And duly elected he was. Now did the media start crawling up his backside straight away? No. There is, by tradition, something of a month's honeymoon period, and then, if neccessary, the knives will come out. Which they duly did. Very healthy that because that way issues surface.
My two centimes (1 Euro = 100 Centimes)
- T. I.
http://www.americandaily.com/item/5361
The article seems fairly factual and largely unbiased.
Apparently this website has caused trouble prior to just now.
Just linking to it for further information for discussion, not making any points.
But now it seems that in Britain they are doubting their photos...BBC ...
"However the BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams says sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment believe many aspects of the photographs are extremely suspicious.
He says they believe the pictures may not have been taken in Iraq.
- They believe the rifle is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.
- They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.
- They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq.
Mr Blair said if there had been any abuse it was "exceptional", and should not detract from the good work being done by UK armed forces in Iraq.
However he stressed if the photos were genuine it was totally unacceptable.
"We went to Iraq to get rid of that sort of thing, not to do it," he added."
Has Britain's spin-cycle started?
I don't know how our Administration is going to explain/spin-off any of 60 Minutes report away. And a lot of the Middle East who hasn't doubted or hated us before...sure as Hell do now.
OBL - "Told ya so..."
Originally posted by Artman @_@
I have seen those porn shots before also. But it doesn't refute what 60 minutes obtained and reported.
I in no way whatsoever implied or said that the 60 minutes photos were not real. I'm repeating that regardless as to whether or not you meant to suggest that.
People seem to only skim threads and seldom read the full context.
Once again, in case anyone is skimming, I was only refuting the pictures 16-24 on http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow
I insist that muddying the issue by using fakes amongst the real photos only causes more harm than good.
I urge nothing more than patience before jumping to the gun and believing everything you see the first time you see it, be it Pentagon , Bush admin, or Al Qaeda or Iraqi Information Ministry or Sadr or anyone else.
It is far too easy to fake things. Doing so only distracts resources away from true incidents of abuse, which are real and are waiting to be exposed, and more importantly believed. If people become jaded with fakes, it HURTS the real cases of abuse.
But when there is so much hatred of Bush and the Iraq war---any propaganda is good propaganda.
Facts are better---I'd look to see if the pics of the stacked bodies are for real.
Originally posted by dmz
Facts are better---I'd look to see if the pics of the stacked bodies are for real. [/B]
Yes, they are real, and depict real soldiers with real names who are really under arrest and facing charges. Have you even read any of the news reports, or just the headlines?
The photographs tell it all. In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling.
Fact Source
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sammi jo
If Fox News, CNN, NBC etc hadn't been licking the butt-end of the Bush Administration in the 8 months before the war started, feeding disinformation, propaganda and lies to the American people, none of this crap would have ever happened, 740 US troops and 11,000 Iraqi civilians would still be alive, we wouldn't have lost respect in the rest of the world and maybe, we could have used some of the $200 billion wasted to smash up then rebuild Iraq to go into catching bin Laden etc. The damage caused to America and the world by our own corporate media's complicity makes the any Arab media disinformation seem less than insignificant in comparison.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting..... Conservatives in the US harp 24 hours a day about how the mainstream media is anti-Bush, anti-troops anti-war and anti American.
Originally posted by The Installer
My two centimes (1 Euro = 100 Centimes)
Not to be an ass, but 1 Euro = 100 (Euro)Cent. Only the French can use "Centimes" because "cent" is also the translation of "hunderd".
Originally posted by dmz
Facts are better---I'd look to see if the pics of the stacked bodies are for real.
Not only are those pictures from 60 minutes, but kimmitt, in the interview discussing the photos, said it was not isolated.
Then we have the fact that it's front page news just about everywhere and Hersh's new article.
You know, you could get your info from somewhere other than AO and then come back here to discuss it like the rest of us are doing.
Originally posted by SpcMs
Not to be an ass, but 1 Euro = 100 (Euro)Cent. Only the French can use "Centimes" because "cent" is also the translation of "hunderd".
No, no, the beauty of living the EU is that you can use anything you like, because we are all one big happy family now
And also, maybe I was in France (with Powerdoc) when I posted
- T. I.
Originally posted by johnq
That's because 16-24 are not photos of real rape but simulated rape PORN.
That's what I figured. Many articles mentioned them and it concerned me because I didn't think they were real.
However, I've also heard there are photos of women prisoners forced to simulated or take part in sex acts on male prisoners, but have not been able to find them.