SH: Damn those Kykes make great guns----well that should take of our security problem---Tell me, where did the lieutenant hide our stockpile?
HRO: (face horribly contorted) M-M-Mr. President, he hadn't told me where, I told him to surprise me...
(BANG)
Yeah, because one or two people is all that's required to hide, load and unload hundreds of tons of chemicals, thousands of munitions, and the "tiny" missiles used to deliver the chemicals.
The word "mass" hasn't come into affect yet, so hold off on the pats on the back.
Everyone, don't get yer panties in a bunch here. Everyone is getting way too personal and mixing up whatever baggage they brought in and basically ignoring the topic. That can't continue.
Yes it has. Everyone said weapons of MASS destruction, not MASS weapons of distruction, if you doubt the effect of sarin, well.....that is a clasic case of....dare I say ignorance
Well, let's assume that the one person who would know (SH) hasn't exactly been getting tickled with a particularly light and fluffy duster as part of his interrogation procedure.
If he's really unlucky they would have let England loose on him - so how come he's not talking ?
Are the military interrogators bad at their job or good at it and there's nothing cooking ?
You choose - I've got some wet paint that needs watching while it dries.....
Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."
Nothing will ever convince some people that WMDs exist in Iraq....
Nothing will ever be good enough.
First of all, I've never been very keen on the notion that faith without evidence is an especially virtuous or moral thing.
For those who do consider of faith without evidence to be a virtue, it seems to me that ascribing virtue to faith is generally limited to matters like faith in God and/or a particular belief structure, not so much, say, faith in whatever our political leadership happens to say.
As for whether or not some people would deny the existence of Iraqi WMD even in the face of overwhelming evidence... I'm sure some people would be so stubborn, yes. But that point hasn't come, and the existence of such evidence is purely hypothetical.
The burden of proof should have been met before we went to war, anyway. I'm sure finding real, substantial piles of WMD would make some people feel very justified and smug, but that's sort of like executing a criminal on a hunch, and thinking that the execution is justified because you find the evidence you needed later.
What's worse would be calling such a pre-emptive execution just, and continuing to call it just even without the evidence, because no one can prove you won't "eventually" find the evidence you need.
The burden of proof should have been met before we went to war, anyway. I'm sure finding real, substantial piles of WMD would make some people feel very justified and smug, but that's sort of like executing a criminal on a hunch, and thinking that the execution is justified because you find the evidence you needed later.
[They didn't know it was sarin] But now the US has told them.
My thought exactly. If this story is true, then either a) the military is totally irresponsible for releasing this information or b) they know, like everyone else who isn't hypnotized by the Church of Bush, that there aren't enough out there to warrant concern.
You have read so many papers and articles that support your own viewpoint that you think yours is the only one, as you have shown repeatedly throughout these forums.
I do respect your opinion, although you have a tendency discredit yourself by making statements like the above.
But hey, you know what opinions are like right? We all have one.
I know, I know, yours is based on extensive research and fact, don't bother saying it, I know.
One thing we know: there were no plants to build any of this shit anytime recently.
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Actually you don't.
Soooooo... we don't know there are chemical weapons PLANTS, because...... what, they could be buried in the desert somewhere?
Sorry to sound condescending, but you can't seriously believe that there are PLANTS over there that we STILL haven't found? Or that all traces of such plants were removed in a matter of months, pre-invasion?
Ricin, anthrax, mustard and VX are all considered WMDs, along with bio and nukes, because of their potential to kill masses of people.
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too. \
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too. \
It without a doubt shows that WMDs were in Iraq. Wether the rest of the stockpile are found immediately or not, matters little at this point. I really don't want to point out that I suggested many times that this kind of discovery would happen eventually. Actually, yes I do.
If you think that the "just one" argument now excuses the attacks that many of you have made on this government, you are wrong IMO.
You will see more and more discoveries like this as TIME goes on.
Soooooo... we don't know there are chemical weapons PLANTS, because...... what, they could be buried in the desert somewhere?
Sorry to sound condescending, but you can't seriously believe that there are PLANTS over there that we STILL haven't found? Or that all traces of such plants were removed in a matter of months, pre-invasion?
LOL, that is actually what some in here are saying. Not like we have a crapload of satellites at all times in the sky capable of taking detailed pics of basically anything that moves in the desert. Oh wait, we do.
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too. \
Yeah, because one or two people is all that's required to hide, load and unload hundreds of tons of chemicals, thousands of munitions, and the "tiny" missiles used to deliver the chemicals.
Well they say something is funny if it's half true.
I personally think that, in the face of certian defeat in conventional warfare, SH had the brains to stockpile guns ammuntion, RPGs, etc., and basiclly do what the Swiss will do to anyone whoever invades Switzerland. (no cheese or chocolate jokes---I mean it!!)
Since if there was any chance of running off whitey it wouldn't due to have naughty WMD lay about while the coalition had ample time to discover it, any goodies were long gone in the six-ten months of pulled punches that led up to the war.
Now giant will be here in moments to tell us that there was essentially nothing going on in Iraq---and give the devil his due, gaint's facts can be good---but what you can't make yourself you could certainly buy---or just keep laying around.
But all war is based on deception, so it's anyone's guess.
Comments
Originally posted by
SH: Damn those Kykes make great guns----well that should take of our security problem---Tell me, where did the lieutenant hide our stockpile?
HRO: (face horribly contorted) M-M-Mr. President, he hadn't told me where, I told him to surprise me...
(BANG)
Yeah, because one or two people is all that's required to hide, load and unload hundreds of tons of chemicals, thousands of munitions, and the "tiny" missiles used to deliver the chemicals.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
The word "mass" hasn't come into affect yet, so hold off on the pats on the back.
Everyone, don't get yer panties in a bunch here. Everyone is getting way too personal and mixing up whatever baggage they brought in and basically ignoring the topic. That can't continue.
Yes it has. Everyone said weapons of MASS destruction, not MASS weapons of distruction, if you doubt the effect of sarin, well.....that is a clasic case of....dare I say ignorance
Originally posted by segovius
Well, let's assume that the one person who would know (SH) hasn't exactly been getting tickled with a particularly light and fluffy duster as part of his interrogation procedure.
If he's really unlucky they would have let England loose on him - so how come he's not talking ?
Are the military interrogators bad at their job or good at it and there's nothing cooking ?
You choose - I've got some wet paint that needs watching while it dries.....
It's not SH.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who I was talking about.
BTW, the condescending tone has already been invoked, so this thread is on its last legs unless people want to be mature about it.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
If it were on the level of a weapon of *mass* destruction, then it would have killed a hell of alot of people when it went off, no?
BTW, the condescending tone has already been invoked, so this thread is on its last legs unless people want to be mature about it.
I don't think that you are correct on this one.
Ricin, anthrax, mustard and VX are all considered WMDs, along with bio and nukes, because of their potential to kill masses of people.
Originally posted by Jubelum
John 4:48
Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."
Nothing will ever convince some people that WMDs exist in Iraq....
Nothing will ever be good enough.
First of all, I've never been very keen on the notion that faith without evidence is an especially virtuous or moral thing.
For those who do consider of faith without evidence to be a virtue, it seems to me that ascribing virtue to faith is generally limited to matters like faith in God and/or a particular belief structure, not so much, say, faith in whatever our political leadership happens to say.
As for whether or not some people would deny the existence of Iraqi WMD even in the face of overwhelming evidence... I'm sure some people would be so stubborn, yes. But that point hasn't come, and the existence of such evidence is purely hypothetical.
The burden of proof should have been met before we went to war, anyway. I'm sure finding real, substantial piles of WMD would make some people feel very justified and smug, but that's sort of like executing a criminal on a hunch, and thinking that the execution is justified because you find the evidence you needed later.
What's worse would be calling such a pre-emptive execution just, and continuing to call it just even without the evidence, because no one can prove you won't "eventually" find the evidence you need.
My best answer is 'no'.
Originally posted by bunge
Let's get to the point. Was this one shell worth going to war over?
My best answer is 'no'.
That is a silly question.
Are you suggesting that this is the only one that exists or was ever made?
Because that would also be an assumption that goes directly against all logic.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Are you suggesting that this is the only one that exists or was ever made?
'was ever made?'
Originally posted by Power Apple
As a Christian, I find your use of this bible quote in this thread strongly offensive and outmost disrespectful of the faith. Shame. Shame on you.
Originally posted by shetline
The burden of proof should have been met before we went to war, anyway. I'm sure finding real, substantial piles of WMD would make some people feel very justified and smug, but that's sort of like executing a criminal on a hunch, and thinking that the execution is justified because you find the evidence you needed later.
Absolutely Correct.
Originally posted by Face Ache:
[They didn't know it was sarin] But now the US has told them.
My thought exactly. If this story is true, then either a) the military is totally irresponsible for releasing this information or b) they know, like everyone else who isn't hypnotized by the Church of Bush, that there aren't enough out there to warrant concern.
Originally posted by giant
Actually, I do. As should you.
Actually you don't.
You have read so many papers and articles that support your own viewpoint that you think yours is the only one, as you have shown repeatedly throughout these forums.
I do respect your opinion, although you have a tendency discredit yourself by making statements like the above.
But hey, you know what opinions are like right? We all have one.
I know, I know, yours is based on extensive research and fact, don't bother saying it, I know.
Originally posted by giant
One thing we know: there were no plants to build any of this shit anytime recently.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Actually you don't.
Soooooo... we don't know there are chemical weapons PLANTS, because...... what, they could be buried in the desert somewhere?
Sorry to sound condescending, but you can't seriously believe that there are PLANTS over there that we STILL haven't found? Or that all traces of such plants were removed in a matter of months, pre-invasion?
Originally posted by NaplesX
I don't think that you are correct on this one.
Ricin, anthrax, mustard and VX are all considered WMDs, along with bio and nukes, because of their potential to kill masses of people.
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too.
It without a doubt shows that WMDs were in Iraq. Wether the rest of the stockpile are found immediately or not, matters little at this point. I really don't want to point out that I suggested many times that this kind of discovery would happen eventually. Actually, yes I do.
If you think that the "just one" argument now excuses the attacks that many of you have made on this government, you are wrong IMO.
You will see more and more discoveries like this as TIME goes on.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Soooooo... we don't know there are chemical weapons PLANTS, because...... what, they could be buried in the desert somewhere?
Sorry to sound condescending, but you can't seriously believe that there are PLANTS over there that we STILL haven't found? Or that all traces of such plants were removed in a matter of months, pre-invasion?
LOL, that is actually what some in here are saying. Not like we have a crapload of satellites at all times in the sky capable of taking detailed pics of basically anything that moves in the desert. Oh wait, we do.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I don't mean to say that sarin isn't dangerous or worthy of WMB classification, just that this one shell doesn't make a good case in itself. I just want people to be patient before jumping to some conclusion one way or the other. The shell could be the elusive tip of the iceberg or it could be a fluke. All of us should at least accept that this needs further investigation. I think the title of this thread doesn't necessarily assume anything either though it's provocative enough to force some knee-jerk reactions and somewhat tangential points about the decision to go to war, etc. Of course, that was sort of the point of the title too.
Oh yeah, not necessarily directed at you.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Yeah, because one or two people is all that's required to hide, load and unload hundreds of tons of chemicals, thousands of munitions, and the "tiny" missiles used to deliver the chemicals.
Well they say something is funny if it's half true.
I personally think that, in the face of certian defeat in conventional warfare, SH had the brains to stockpile guns ammuntion, RPGs, etc., and basiclly do what the Swiss will do to anyone whoever invades Switzerland. (no cheese or chocolate jokes---I mean it!!)
Since if there was any chance of running off whitey it wouldn't due to have naughty WMD lay about while the coalition had ample time to discover it, any goodies were long gone in the six-ten months of pulled punches that led up to the war.
Now giant will be here in moments to tell us that there was essentially nothing going on in Iraq---and give the devil his due, gaint's facts can be good---but what you can't make yourself you could certainly buy---or just keep laying around.
But all war is based on deception, so it's anyone's guess.