Scott's right. The bulldozing of dozens (maybe hundreds) of homes - a few of which might harbor terrorists - and the indiscriminant straffing of civilian areas with rockets, must be allowed to continue! Nothing the Israeli military does in the name of self-defense is wrong. Ever. GOT IT?
Israelis are always victims defending themselves, Palenstinians are always terrorists getting what they deserve. That's all there is to it. Just take it and shut up everyone; we have no right to criticize. We are hypocrits to not support everything the Israeli government does.
No. What I'm curious about, if New would come back to this thread but seems to have run off, is why he runs right to AO and post some thread about the last thing Israel has done while completely ignoring the horrible and barbaric actions from the arab muslims. Why is he so consistently one sided in his criticism.
Maybe it's that he has such low expectations from the muslims?
Some in here should be made into a comic strip of some sort.
Just some advice guys. If you're gonna use "big words" like SEMITIC, at least make an effort to LEARN how they're spelled first.
I would also recommend reading up on Israel . Not all Israelis are "the jews". A little over 20% of the Israeli population is not Jewish.
Back on topic. I for one, am getting tired of this conflict. And I've said that to my Israeli friends a few times. It's too bad we can't put the same amount of pressure on both sides to seriously sit down and negotiate (undoubtedly giving up something)for the benefit of both the Israeli and the Palestinian people.
War on terrorism? What a dumb, pathetic joke. How duplicitous and non-credible we are.
When terrorism and massacres are dealt out by the US, and our "friends and allies", such as the regimes of Saddam Hussein (1977-1990), Suharto of Indonesia, Sharon of Israel (and many numerous others since WW2), with our money, arms, and approval, it's deemed "legitimate". (?????????) Israel under Sharon is a rogue state, period, and Ariel Sharon is a rogue leader, period. Israel sponsors and partakes in terrorism, make no mistake. The $billions that Israel receives from the US taxpayer should be halted, as from now. Furthermore, Israel must abide by UN Resolution 242, just like the dozens of other UN resolutions it has roundly ignored and thumbed its nose at the international community with impunity, because it just happens to be the US's favorite, no matter how badly it behaves. In addition, UN weapons inspectors should perform thorough inspections of Israel's nuclear, biological and chemical weapons facilities, in order to purge the middle east of WMD.
Israel under Sharon and the US under Bush share the same status: states that sponsor, and harbor terrorists. This is the view of much of the world. And guess what, as if we didnt already know? The middle east is full of reactionary dipshits who demand revenge, extremist Muslim groups being the Arab cheerleaders for such. How many bin Laden copycats are we trying to create?
Wow such harsh words for the Jewish state SJO. What do you say about Arafat, Hamas, IJ and the rest. Nothing? Next time a bomb blows up a bus full of kids in Israel run straight here and post about how the arab terrorists need to stop the "cycle of violence" and how they're methods only creates a thousand more Sharons and that the "madness needs to end" and other useless slogans that are only trotted out for the Jewish state.
Wow such harsh words for the Jewish state SJO. What do you say about Arafat, Hamas, IJ and the rest. Nothing? Next time a bomb blows up a bus full of kids in Israel run straight here and post about how the arab terrorists need to stop the "cycle of violence" and how they're methods only creates a thousand more Sharons and that the "madness needs to end" and other useless slogans that are only trotted out for the Jewish state.
Scott, go look at the AO archives. If you won't I can. My commentary on the PLO and Hamas is equally, if not more harsh. And, just for your information, Hamas was created by the Israeli Govt. 2 decades ago as a counter to Arafat's PLO. I guess that makes Hamas more legit for you?
And Scott, judging from your reply, it sounds as if you approve of terrorism?
I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here. If you happen to be in a large crowd marching angrily toward a group of tanks and helis, don't follow with the crowd! Take some cover, go home, just don't be part of the crowd. Evidently, this survival technique has evaded those protestors. They took the gamble that nothing bad would happen, and this is what you get. What did they accomplish in the end? Exactly.
I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here. If you happen to be in a large crowd marching angrily toward a group of tanks and helis, don't follow with the crowd! Take some cover, go home, just don't be part of the crowd. Evidently, this survival technique has evaded those protestors. They took the gamble that nothing bad would happen, and this is what you get. What did they accomplish in the end? Exactly.
Randycat, they are probably in similar danger at home as in a crowd. The Israelis often shell, or fire missiles at Palestinian's homes, or bulldoze them. Hell.... they even do such things to American aid workers, with impunity. Perhaps those Palestinians were thinking safety in numbers i.e. the herd instinct, which is also Darwinian, if that's where you want to go.
Randycat, they are probably in similar danger at home as in a crowd. The Israelis often shell, or fire missiles at Palestinian's homes, or bulldoze them. Hell.... they even do such things to American aid workers, with impunity. Perhaps those Palestinians were thinking safety in numbers i.e. the herd instinct, which is also Darwinian, if that's where you want to go.
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters.
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters.
Rember this:
sometimes people put themselves in the way of harm in order to fight for what they believe in.
So you are implying that these protestors intended to put themselves in harms way? Then you very well cannot look down your nose at the Israeli forces.
So have either of these "causes" moved ahead after these particular events? I guess it gave the media something to do today, right? There's something to be said for giving your life up for something that will actually make a difference and just giving it up for nothing.
So you are implying that these protesters intended to put themselves in harms way? Then you very well cannot look down your nose at the Israeli forces.
So have either of these "causes" moved ahead after these particular events? I guess it gave the media something to do today, right? There's something to be said for giving your life up for something that will actually make a difference and just giving it up for nothing.
Man alive, some peoples kids!!!
I'm sure that little Chinese college student didn't "INTEND" on standing in front of a tank convoy risking life and limb when he woke up that morning. I'm sure that student "INTENDED" on protesting the inequities within China thus he, and a large group of others, gather to show their displeasure.
I know its hard for some to see the similarities between a student protest and a Palestinian protest. I know its difficult to understand that some people will risk their lives for a cause which "THEY", not you, believe in.
PS I'm not going to reply to you again. Your comments seem to make me ill and angry for some reason. I can tell from your post here and in other threads that you have no grasp of history and/or sociopolitical dynamics.
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
Ridiculous? The IDF bulldozers often operate at night, while Palestinian homeowners are sleeping. And how are they safe at home against tank rounds, automatic weapons, and missiles launched from a distance?
Quote:
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
Why should it be so unsafe to take part in a protest in your home town? And why would people marching in the streets be the targets of bombs or missiles? For an answer, perhaps ask the relatives of the Israeli folk who have been blown up in restaurants and on buses. Same deal. Both sides use terrorist methods. One side happens to do it with a high tech military paid for by we the US taxpayer, and the other side with a bunch of desperate rag tags with nothing left to lose.
Quote:
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters. [/B]
The protesters were just doing that, protesting. From what we know, they were not firing at the Israeli aircaft
1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
n.
1. The Semitic languages.
2. Any one of the Semitic languages.
Sem·ite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smt)
n.
1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible. A descendant of Shem.
Can anti-semitic can also mean anti-arabic? or are Jews too important for the word to mean anything else? \
Ridiculous? The IDF bulldozers often operate at night, while Palestinian homeowners are sleeping.
Yes, these would be those "stealth bulldozers". The ones that are impossible to hear in the middle of the night as they approach a particular "house" at a whopping 15 mph with giant floodlights a blazing to light the way. Those? Lemme guess, you also heard they drive these "silent bulldozers" with night goggles so they don't have to use the lights?
Quote:
And how are they safe at home against tank rounds, automatic weapons, and missiles launched from a distance?
The Darwin criteria would suggest you don't house terrorists in your domicile, lest you risk getting caught in their crossfire. Oh, you say they are not allowed to leave? They are captives? I guess their "guests" have doomed them, no?
Quote:
Why should it be so unsafe to take part in a protest in your home town?
Cuz it's the Middle East? I guess even 20/20 hindsight isn't enough to give these people a clue. It's also logically unsafe to bum-rush a tank batallion.
Quote:
And why would people marching in the streets be the targets of bombs or missiles?
Exactly. There's more to this story. Unfortunately, some readers prefer to only gleen the details that support their agenda, instead of waiting for the complete report of the events to really find out what went down there.
Quote:
For an answer, perhaps ask the relatives of the Israeli folk who have been blown up in restaurants and on buses. Same deal. Both sides use terrorist methods.
Let the record show that SJO honestly believes the Israeli military actively target civilians to which to expend their ammunition.
Quote:
One side happens to do it with a high tech military paid for by we the US taxpayer, and the other side with a bunch of desperate rag tags with nothing left to lose.
Yes, must be that simple...
Quote:
The protesters were just doing that, protesting. From what we know, they were not firing at the Israeli aircaft
It's questionable what we do know vs. what we are fed. Either side you choose to be on, there are sources of severe misinformation.
I have an orthodox ruling to clear up the confusion. According to Rabbi Dov Lior it's ok to kill civilians (my bold):
I think this applies when it's Israelis doing the killing though - it's obviously not ok for anyone else to kill civilians whether to save 'so-called innocent lives' or not.
And that's not racist. No, definitely not. Hope that clears up any misunderstandings - it's all ok. Move along - nothing to see.....
ok, that's comforting. Listen everybody, the rabbi said it's ok.
In other news condi accidentally called bush her husband in an interview... how about that? anyone think there is someyhing going on?
Comments
Israelis are always victims defending themselves, Palenstinians are always terrorists getting what they deserve. That's all there is to it. Just take it and shut up everyone; we have no right to criticize. We are hypocrits to not support everything the Israeli government does.
Maybe it's that he has such low expectations from the muslims?
Originally posted by tonton
AGAIN with the "their bad is worse so our bad is not as bad".
Bad is bad.
When did I say they were worse?
Just some advice guys. If you're gonna use "big words" like SEMITIC, at least make an effort to LEARN how they're spelled first.
I would also recommend reading up on Israel . Not all Israelis are "the jews". A little over 20% of the Israeli population is not Jewish.
Back on topic. I for one, am getting tired of this conflict. And I've said that to my Israeli friends a few times. It's too bad we can't put the same amount of pressure on both sides to seriously sit down and negotiate (undoubtedly giving up something)for the benefit of both the Israeli and the Palestinian people.
When terrorism and massacres are dealt out by the US, and our "friends and allies", such as the regimes of Saddam Hussein (1977-1990), Suharto of Indonesia, Sharon of Israel (and many numerous others since WW2), with our money, arms, and approval, it's deemed "legitimate". (?????????) Israel under Sharon is a rogue state, period, and Ariel Sharon is a rogue leader, period. Israel sponsors and partakes in terrorism, make no mistake. The $billions that Israel receives from the US taxpayer should be halted, as from now. Furthermore, Israel must abide by UN Resolution 242, just like the dozens of other UN resolutions it has roundly ignored and thumbed its nose at the international community with impunity, because it just happens to be the US's favorite, no matter how badly it behaves. In addition, UN weapons inspectors should perform thorough inspections of Israel's nuclear, biological and chemical weapons facilities, in order to purge the middle east of WMD.
Israel under Sharon and the US under Bush share the same status: states that sponsor, and harbor terrorists. This is the view of much of the world. And guess what, as if we didnt already know? The middle east is full of reactionary dipshits who demand revenge, extremist Muslim groups being the Arab cheerleaders for such. How many bin Laden copycats are we trying to create?
Originally posted by Scott
Wow such harsh words for the Jewish state SJO. What do you say about Arafat, Hamas, IJ and the rest. Nothing? Next time a bomb blows up a bus full of kids in Israel run straight here and post about how the arab terrorists need to stop the "cycle of violence" and how they're methods only creates a thousand more Sharons and that the "madness needs to end" and other useless slogans that are only trotted out for the Jewish state.
Scott, go look at the AO archives. If you won't I can. My commentary on the PLO and Hamas is equally, if not more harsh. And, just for your information, Hamas was created by the Israeli Govt. 2 decades ago as a counter to Arafat's PLO. I guess that makes Hamas more legit for you?
And Scott, judging from your reply, it sounds as if you approve of terrorism?
Originally posted by Randycat99
I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here. If you happen to be in a large crowd marching angrily toward a group of tanks and helis, don't follow with the crowd! Take some cover, go home, just don't be part of the crowd. Evidently, this survival technique has evaded those protestors. They took the gamble that nothing bad would happen, and this is what you get. What did they accomplish in the end? Exactly.
Randycat, they are probably in similar danger at home as in a crowd. The Israelis often shell, or fire missiles at Palestinian's homes, or bulldoze them. Hell.... they even do such things to American aid workers, with impunity. Perhaps those Palestinians were thinking safety in numbers i.e. the herd instinct, which is also Darwinian, if that's where you want to go.
Naw. It's just easier to click your brain off and blame the Jewish state are every turn.
Originally posted by sammi jo
Randycat, they are probably in similar danger at home as in a crowd. The Israelis often shell, or fire missiles at Palestinian's homes, or bulldoze them. Hell.... they even do such things to American aid workers, with impunity. Perhaps those Palestinians were thinking safety in numbers i.e. the herd instinct, which is also Darwinian, if that's where you want to go.
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters.
Rember this:
sometimes people put themselves in the way of harm in order to fight for what they believe in.
So have either of these "causes" moved ahead after these particular events? I guess it gave the media something to do today, right? There's something to be said for giving your life up for something that will actually make a difference and just giving it up for nothing.
Originally posted by Randycat99
So you are implying that these protesters intended to put themselves in harms way? Then you very well cannot look down your nose at the Israeli forces.
So have either of these "causes" moved ahead after these particular events? I guess it gave the media something to do today, right? There's something to be said for giving your life up for something that will actually make a difference and just giving it up for nothing.
Man alive, some peoples kids!!!
I'm sure that little Chinese college student didn't "INTEND" on standing in front of a tank convoy risking life and limb when he woke up that morning. I'm sure that student "INTENDED" on protesting the inequities within China thus he, and a large group of others, gather to show their displeasure.
I know its hard for some to see the similarities between a student protest and a Palestinian protest. I know its difficult to understand that some people will risk their lives for a cause which "THEY", not you, believe in.
PS I'm not going to reply to you again. Your comments seem to make me ill and angry for some reason. I can tell from your post here and in other threads that you have no grasp of history and/or sociopolitical dynamics.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Ridiculous. If there is a bulldozer coming at your home, the Darwin criteria should tell you to get out. More importantly, don't stand in front of a bulldozer like a dumb rock. Barring that, they should have been quite safe at home.
Ridiculous? The IDF bulldozers often operate at night, while Palestinian homeowners are sleeping. And how are they safe at home against tank rounds, automatic weapons, and missiles launched from a distance?
If you are going to even bother with a "safety in numbers" defense, then you must concede that they knew they were walking into a dangerous situation (as opposed to taking cover, going home, or otherwise leaving the crowd), and were expecting casualties. So there you have it. This happened exactly the way it was supposed to. Most survived (for a needless demonstration) as per "safety in numbers", and an expected fraction of the group are carried out as casualties.
Why should it be so unsafe to take part in a protest in your home town? And why would people marching in the streets be the targets of bombs or missiles? For an answer, perhaps ask the relatives of the Israeli folk who have been blown up in restaurants and on buses. Same deal. Both sides use terrorist methods. One side happens to do it with a high tech military paid for by we the US taxpayer, and the other side with a bunch of desperate rag tags with nothing left to lose.
You shall then logically agree that no sympathy need be shed on this group of protestors, other than why couldn't they be smart enough to not "take on" a battalion of tanks and helicopters. [/B]
The protesters were just doing that, protesting. From what we know, they were not firing at the Israeli aircaft
Se·mit·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-mtk)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
n.
1. The Semitic languages.
2. Any one of the Semitic languages.
Sem·ite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smt)
n.
1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible. A descendant of Shem.
Can anti-semitic can also mean anti-arabic? or are Jews too important for the word to mean anything else?
Originally posted by sammi jo
Ridiculous? The IDF bulldozers often operate at night, while Palestinian homeowners are sleeping.
Yes, these would be those "stealth bulldozers". The ones that are impossible to hear in the middle of the night as they approach a particular "house" at a whopping 15 mph with giant floodlights a blazing to light the way. Those? Lemme guess, you also heard they drive these "silent bulldozers" with night goggles so they don't have to use the lights?
Quote:
And how are they safe at home against tank rounds, automatic weapons, and missiles launched from a distance?
The Darwin criteria would suggest you don't house terrorists in your domicile, lest you risk getting caught in their crossfire. Oh, you say they are not allowed to leave? They are captives? I guess their "guests" have doomed them, no?
Quote:
Why should it be so unsafe to take part in a protest in your home town?
Cuz it's the Middle East? I guess even 20/20 hindsight isn't enough to give these people a clue. It's also logically unsafe to bum-rush a tank batallion.
Quote:
And why would people marching in the streets be the targets of bombs or missiles?
Exactly. There's more to this story. Unfortunately, some readers prefer to only gleen the details that support their agenda, instead of waiting for the complete report of the events to really find out what went down there.
Quote:
For an answer, perhaps ask the relatives of the Israeli folk who have been blown up in restaurants and on buses. Same deal. Both sides use terrorist methods.
Let the record show that SJO honestly believes the Israeli military actively target civilians to which to expend their ammunition.
Quote:
One side happens to do it with a high tech military paid for by we the US taxpayer, and the other side with a bunch of desperate rag tags with nothing left to lose.
Yes, must be that simple...
Quote:
The protesters were just doing that, protesting. From what we know, they were not firing at the Israeli aircaft
It's questionable what we do know vs. what we are fed. Either side you choose to be on, there are sources of severe misinformation.
Originally posted by Randycat99
I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here.
Why wouldn't you allow the Darwin criteria to apply for Israelis as well? Because you're a racist. Congratulations.
Originally posted by segovius
I have an orthodox ruling to clear up the confusion. According to Rabbi Dov Lior it's ok to kill civilians (my bold):
I think this applies when it's Israelis doing the killing though - it's obviously not ok for anyone else to kill civilians whether to save 'so-called innocent lives' or not.
And that's not racist. No, definitely not. Hope that clears up any misunderstandings - it's all ok. Move along - nothing to see.....
ok, that's comforting. Listen everybody, the rabbi said it's ok.
In other news condi accidentally called bush her husband in an interview... how about that? anyone think there is someyhing going on?